Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This is an interesting one. With it looking like a real possibility that Bayern will win the treble, and having won 19 of their 20 games since it was announced Guardiola would take over, have Bayern made a mistake here? Looking at Guardiola - he's only managed in one country with a completely different footballing culture, in a set of unique circumstances with the whole Barcelona ethos and him knowing everything there is to know about it due to his history with the club. He's got to come in to a team playing a near perfect game which is proving to be unbeatable at the moment. His style of play centres around tika-taka which I just can't see being as effective for Bayern with the type of players they have. The way they play just now is perfect for them. The perfect balance of good football v the physical side of the game. What will he do? Dismantle the side and make it his own? How do you better this season?! I can see this being a disaster for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 He'll them into a bunch of whining, cheating, diving *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_razors_edge Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 If he's as good as everyone says he'll adapt his coaching, tactics etc to suit the players he has at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This is an interesting one. With it looking like a real possibility that Bayern will win the treble, and having won 19 of their 20 games since it was announced Guardiola would take over, have Bayern made a mistake here? Looking at Guardiola - he's only managed in one country with a completely different footballing culture, in a set of unique circumstances with the whole Barcelona ethos and him knowing everything there is to know about it due to his history with the club. He's got to come in to a team playing a near perfect game which is proving to be unbeatable at the moment. His style of play centres around tika-taka which I just can't see being as effective for Bayern with the type of players they have. The way they play just now is perfect for them. The perfect balance of good football v the physical side of the game. What will he do? Dismantle the side and make it his own? How do you better this season?! I can see this being a disaster for the guy. No, he'll give them something extra. What is it that's stopped even this brilliant generation of German players winning a major tournament? Just that extra 1% of technical subtlety, exposed against Spain twice, and Italy twice. I'd started to come to the conclusion that they couldn't develop that extra 1% - but if anyone can help them do it, it's Guardiola. Now, that might mean they don't dominate next year's Bundesliga to the same extent - but in time, he'll add even more strings to their bow. I know that seems impossible right now: people will have watched them tonight, and thought "football can't get any better than that". Except that against opponents who choke off space and get in their faces, it might not be the same story - meaning they still need to go another half a level upwards, and Pep can give them that. For those who ridicule that school of thought, I give you Bayern Munich 0-2 Arsenal reserves. Arsenal aren't even the kind of side I mentioned, yet Bayern almost blew it against them. To me, that said that they still had a further distance to travel - and to their credit, they seem to have recognised that, whatever happens in the final. Guardiola won't revolutionise their style of play. He'll just give them a better balance, and make them more multi-dimensional: more able to win in different ways. If he succeeds, that's absolutely ******* terrifying for the rest of Europe: who'll already be cowering in fear right now given what happened tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmackenzie14 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 well the bayern manager is retiring so they needed to find a replacement and who better than pep. his record in europe and in league and cup competitions is incredible, you can see what he gave barcelona.. since he left they have looked a total different team. i think it will be the same for bayern this when pep takes over the only thing that will change is the style they will play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Sheldon Cooper Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 He should hopefully realise he doesn't really need to change anything. Just let the players go out and do their thing. Gotze and potentially Lewandowski could be that extra dimension to the side. They are quite possibly the best team in Europe at the moment and Guardiola must surely realise that they've achieved this status by being effective at what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 It should be great to watch, I think he has already said that there will not be loads of new signings. Bayern have a excellent youth academy, I think we will possibility see the biggest changes there rather than the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 No, he'll give them something extra. What is it that's stopped even this brilliant generation of German players winning a major tournament? Just that extra 1% of technical subtlety, exposed against Spain twice, and Italy twice. I'd started to come to the conclusion that they couldn't develop that extra 1% - but if anyone can help them do it, it's Guardiola. Now, that might mean they don't dominate next year's Bundesliga to the same extent - but in time, he'll add even more strings to their bow. I know that seems impossible right now: people will have watched them tonight, and thought "football can't get any better than that". Except that against opponents who choke off space and get in their faces, it might not be the same story - meaning they still need to go another half a level upwards, and Pep can give them that. For those who ridicule that school of thought, I give you Bayern Munich 0-2 Arsenal reserves. Arsenal aren't even the kind of side I mentioned, yet Bayern almost blew it against them. To me, that said that they still had a further distance to travel - and to their credit, they seem to have recognised that, whatever happens in the final. Guardiola won't revolutionise their style of play. He'll just give them a better balance, and make them more multi-dimensional: more able to win in different ways. If he succeeds, that's absolutely ******* terrifying for the rest of Europe: who'll already be cowering in fear right now given what happened tonight. You used the Arsenal example as a reason Barca would win this tie. On your last part, I don't see how he will make them multi-dimensional. Barca were, and still are, one-dimensional. I'm working on the assumption he'll try and replicate Barca in their play as it's all I have seen of him. Just little things like Bayern not being afraid to knock it long when required will leave their game, and those wee things will have an impact on their play. I think their best attribute is how direct they are. This is going to be an interesting one for football geeks to watch unfold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 You used the Arsenal example as a reason Barca would win this tie. On your last part, I don't see how he will make them multi-dimensional. Barca were, and still are, one-dimensional. I'm working on the assumption he'll try and replicate Barca in their play as it's all I have seen of him. Just little things like Bayern not being afraid to knock it long when required will leave their game, and those wee things will have an impact on their play. I think their best attribute is how direct they are. Not in 2008/9, Barca weren't. Here's the thing about modern football. Whenever I see a team thrash allcomers to within an inch of their lives as Bayern routinely do, I think: "This can't continue. Someone clever will get them". That's why I think Real would have every chance in a final against them, and could relax in the role of underdogs too. And there will remain a doubt in my mind until this generation of players actually win the CL or a major tournament. Even tonight, magnificent though they were, Bayern benefited from two crucial pieces of refereeing. That's not the reason they won in a million years - but some nights, they won't get those calls, meaning that on some nights, they'll need more ways in which to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Seeger Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This Gotze signing has really pissed me off. I've been thinking about a long running battle between BVB and Munich developing but does his signing show that they'll buy their way through the bundesliga? This guy could have picked just about any side in Europe to go to and he picks their nearest challengers. Meh, There's bugger all loyalty in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This Gotze signing has really pissed me off. I've been thinking about a long running battle between BVB and Munich developing but does his signing show that they'll buy their way through the bundesliga? This guy could have picked just about any side in Europe to go to and he picks their nearest challengers. Meh, There's bugger all loyalty in football. Bayern look after Bayern, Gotze looks after himself ( ie the resulting very large signing on fee and salary) and the seller,by agreeing to such a clause, is only delaying the inevitable move to another club with at least sizeable compensation resulting. If you look at from the players point of view he has developed as a player, giving them service and league titles and ensured the club he is leaving has received compensation..........better than leaving at then end of his contract for no fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 This Gotze signing has really pissed me off. I've been thinking about a long running battle between BVB and Munich developing but does his signing show that they'll buy their way through the bundesliga? This guy could have picked just about any side in Europe to go to and he picks their nearest challengers. Meh, There's bugger all loyalty in football. I was thinking similar mate, if I remember correctly Bayern lent Dortmund cash to keep the domestic game competitive then they go and do this and practically destroy the competition?? Heard someone say gotze is from the Munich area so can't blame the boy for going but Munich doing an old firm on their league here I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think the Gotze signing is an indicator of how Guardiola will slightly tweak Bayerns style to make them even more high tempo and give then that cutting edge through the middle. I think the biggest change Guardiola will bring to Bayern is how they work as a unit when not in possession. This is often overlooked as a key factor in Barcas recent success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I was thinking similar mate, if I remember correctly Bayern lent Dortmund cash to keep the domestic game competitive then they go and do this and practically destroy the competition?? Heard someone say gotze is from the Munich area so can't blame the boy for going but Munich doing an old firm on their league here I think. It's because FFP really kicks in properly next season. Bayern, the architects of FFP (which should really be re-named, The Closed Shop), have been waiting for this opportunity for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I think the Gotze signing is an indicator of how Guardiola will slightly tweak Bayerns style to make them even more high tempo and give then that cutting edge through the middle. I think the biggest change Guardiola will bring to Bayern is how they work as a unit when not in possession. This is often overlooked as a key factor in Barcas recent success. Correct. Call me a man obsessed, but I still think they're palpably vulnerable to the counter-attack. And what do Real and Dortmund excel at...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Not in 2008/9, Barca weren't. Here's the thing about modern football. Whenever I see a team thrash allcomers to within an inch of their lives as Bayern routinely do, I think: "This can't continue. Someone clever will get them". That's why I think Real would have every chance in a final against them, and could relax in the role of underdogs too. And there will remain a doubt in my mind until this generation of players actually win the CL or a major tournament. Even tonight, magnificent though they were, Bayern benefited from two crucial pieces of refereeing. That's not the reason they won in a million years - but some nights, they won't get those calls, meaning that on some nights, they'll need more ways in which to win. Real as underdogs in the final? The only way Bayern will be favourites in the final is if its an all German affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Real as underdogs in the final? The only way Bayern will be favourites in the final is if its an all German affair. I just don't see how a side with their record aren't favourites in the final. Real, lest we forget, are barely even 2nd in Spain; Bayern's record, meanwhile, is just unreal. 3 goals conceded away from home in 15 league games?! Plus 75 goal difference?! Nine points dropped all season?! If they win it, they'll be the most impressive winners of this tournament in aeons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Bet Confirmation - THY1153903110W - Mobile Time of bet: 20/02/2013 09:30:54 Print Selections No. Selections Event Event Date E/W Terms Odds Result 1 Bayern Munich UEFA Champions League 2012/13 (To Win Outright) 25/05/2013 2 Places 1/2 Odds 4/1 To Run Stake: 5.00 To Return: 25.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Did say when the draw was made, not to assume a Classico final. Many we're writing off Bayern as inferior to Barcelona, but I had noted that they have a burning desire to win the Champions League in England, to lay to rest an English team beating them on their own ground last year. Sounds crazy, but an early goal could fire up Barcelona and Messi will be fit, unlike last night. Dortmund v Madrid could be a terrific scrap as well. Dortmund have surprised even themselves with how far they have reached, and Madrid must think they won't have to face Barcelona if they go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I just don't see how a side with their record aren't favourites in the final. Real, lest we forget, are barely even 2nd in Spain; Bayern's record, meanwhile, is just unreal. 3 goals conceded away from home in 15 league games?! Plus 75 goal difference?! Nine points dropped all season?! If they win it, they'll be the most impressive winners of this tournament in aeons. I agree that their record is outstanding, that Arsenal defeat was their only one since October. However Real have clearly stepped up to another level and found a way to beat Barca too. Personally i think Bayern have a great chance however the bookies will have Real as favourites if they progress (which IMO is a huge if). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 The lad Pep has had a mare choosing this job when the Man U job was available. Unless he wins the treble in better style, the only way is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortarkod Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Quintuple next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 The lad Pep has had a mare choosing this job when the Man U job was available. Unless he wins the treble in better style, the only way is down. The lad Pep has shown fantastic vision and judgement in choosing a job at the best side in Europe when one where he'd have been required to replace the irreplaceable without the money required, and with a side miles and miles behind the best in the CL, was available. Smart man, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Yeah cos choosing the Man U job is a doddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 The lad Pep has shown fantastic vision and judgement in choosing a job at the best side in Europe when one where he'd have been required to replace the irreplaceable without the money required, and with a side miles and miles behind the best in the CL, was available. Smart man, to say the least. How often do you see a top manager take over a side when it is at its peak? This is probably unprecedented. They usually take over a side who has had a tough few years but has the funds/potential etc to be built back up. I just can't see where Guardiola can improve them. One slip up in the cup or something and he's failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Bayern will be the dominant force in Europe for the next five years. There's no doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Bayern will be the dominant force in Europe for the next five years. There's no doubt about that. People were saying that about Barca a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 How often do you see a top manager take over a side when it is at its peak? This is probably unprecedented. They usually take over a side who has had a tough few years but has the funds/potential etc to be built back up. I just can't see where Guardiola can improve them. One slip up in the cup or something and he's failed. You seem to think Bayern are at a peak. I think they're just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 How often do you see a top manager take over a side when it is at its peak? This is probably unprecedented. They usually take over a side who has had a tough few years but has the funds/potential etc to be built back up. I just can't see where Guardiola can improve them. One slip up in the cup or something and he's failed. Nonsense. Bayern won't be expecting trebles every season man! But they will be looking for long term European dominance - and if any man's equipped to help them achieve that, it's Pep. United, meanwhile, are a good side who've had a good few years - but don't have the funds necessary to really move to another level, and therefore don't presently have the potential to achieve what Bayern can. Bayern was the better bet by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 People were saying that about Barca a couple of years ago. There's a big difference. Bayern can buy big and will dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 You seem to think Bayern are at a peak. I think they're just getting started. I think they were just getting started in 2010 or so, when they knocked United out, reached the final, but were way, way, way off where they are now. A learning curve followed, encompassing two spectacular choke jobs v Inter and Chelsea, and even playing second fiddle to Dortmund at home - but they're a great side now. With, I agree, a year or two's possible improvement still to come; and with the financial resources to become more or less permanent contenders too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 You seem to think Bayern are at a peak. I think they're just getting started. See Tazio's post. Even the best players lose the hunger after success. Look at Man U after their treble. Bayern have been in the final 3 out of the last 4 years, so it's safe to say it has been building up to this moment and they are probably at their peak right now. They may have another year or two at the top, but these things usually go downhill quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I think they were just getting started in 2010 or so, when they knocked United out, reached the final, but were way, way, way off where they are now. A learning curve followed, encompassing two spectacular choke jobs v Inter and Chelsea, and even playing second fiddle to Dortmund at home - but they're a great side now. With, I agree, a year or two's possible improvement still to come; and with the financial resources to become more or less permanent contenders too. I'm convinced that the Bayern of two years in the future will be the team that all will rave about. Better than the best ever Barca they'll say. Didn't beat Hibs 5-1 I'll say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 See Tazio's post. Even the best players lose the hunger after success. Look at Man U after their treble. Bayern have been in the final 3 out of the last 4 years, so it's safe to say it has been building up to this moment and they are probably at their peak right now. They may have another year or two at the top, but these things usually go downhill quickly. But these things have never involved Financial Fair Play - which will help Bayern Munich more than any other club on planet Earth - until now. Nor have they ever involved an economy which is miles and miles and miles ahead of the rest of Europe: which again, can only help Bayern, and is already doing so IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Will Pep be able to come in and play the style of football he likes to play or will he try and change the way Bayern play.It worked for Barca will it work in Germany,one thing is for sure he already has a much better defence and goalkeeper than he had at Barca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Nonsense. Bayern won't be expecting trebles every season man! But they will be looking for long term European dominance - and if any man's equipped to help them achieve that, it's Pep. United, meanwhile, are a good side who've had a good few years - but don't have the funds necessary to really move to another level, and therefore don't presently have the potential to achieve what Bayern can. Bayern was the better bet by far. For truly great managers, they won't want a poorer season than last. Guardiola is one of those who despite achieving great things, has questions over him because of the circumstances he won them in (Barca being incredible, the style planned for decades, Messi etc). If he wins the Champions League next season then fair enough, but history tells us that is unlikely. I just think he's been too quick to make his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 See Tazio's post. Even the best players lose the hunger after success. Look at Man U after their treble. Bayern have been in the final 3 out of the last 4 years, so it's safe to say it has been building up to this moment and they are probably at their peak right now. They may have another year or two at the top, but these things usually go downhill quickly. But Bayern will buy the most hungry players going forward. Man U won't be able to compete in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 This will be Guardiola's real test, not knocking what he did at Barcelona but the players at his disposal were incredible and he'd worked within the Barcelona set up for a long time before getting the job. Now, he's walking into a completely new set up that will demand success from the word go. He'll win Bundesliga's but whether he can win more Champions League titles, I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 This will be Guardiola's real test, not knocking what he did at Barcelona but the players at his disposal were incredible and he'd worked within the Barcelona set up for a long time before getting the job. Now, he's walking into a completely new set up that will demand success from the word go. He'll win Bundesliga's but whether he can win more Champions League titles, I'm not so sure. If Guardiola turns Bayern into the new Barca, he'll be up there with Sir Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Pepe was wanting Dortmund to win tonight. Nap. I agree with what Partridge says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 If Guardiola turns Bayern into the new Barca, he'll be up there with Sir Alex. Not so sure about that,he is already coming into an already made side.Would like to see Pep builds side but will we ever see him stay anywhere long enough.IMO he could see Barca were on the slide and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 But Bayern will buy the most hungry players going forward. Man U won't be able to compete in the slightest. Man U was probably a poor example (although if they do get Ronaldo they can't be that skint), but look how many jobs have been available - Man U, Chelsea, Man City ... It's not as easy as buying hungry players, and for me, Guardiola's weak area has been his signings at Barca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 For truly great managers, they won't want a poorer season than last. Guardiola is one of those who despite achieving great things, has questions over him because of the circumstances he won them in (Barca being incredible, the style planned for decades, Messi etc). If he wins the Champions League next season then fair enough, but history tells us that is unlikely. I just think he's been too quick to make his choice. Except there are no "question marks" over Guardiola. Barcelona were an ego-riven shambles when he arrived: they'd just finished below Villarreal, for heavens sake, and a lot of people assumed they couldn't improve on their brilliant, Ronaldinho-inspired side of 2004-6. Instead, they went to an entirely new level: higher than any side in Europe had attained since at least Milan in the late 80s (and people forget that under Sacchi, that side only won one scudetto). Then they were awesome in the 2011 final as well - and most tellingly of all, look what's happened to them since he left. Now, he's off to do a long term job. Just winning the league at Bayern will do fine to start with: allowing their style of play to evolve and become even more multi-dimensional (and crucially, more able to deal with the counter-attack of opponents) represents a longer term project. If all goes well, 10 years from now, we might be hailing Bayern Munich as the biggest club in the world. Not many clubs have that sort of potential - but they do, and the circumstances couldn't be more favourable to them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Shaun you reckon Liverpool will be league champions by the end of next season so your opinion means **** all anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Shaun you reckon Liverpool will be league champions by the end of next season so your opinion means **** all anyway By the end of 2015/16, Beats. I stand by that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Except there are no "question marks" over Guardiola. Barcelona were an ego-riven shambles when he arrived: they'd just finished below Villarreal, for heavens sake, and a lot of people assumed they couldn't improve on their brilliant, Ronaldinho-inspired side of 2004-6. Instead, they went to an entirely new level: higher than any side in Europe had attained since at least Milan in the late 80s (and people forget that under Sacchi, that side only won one scudetto). Then they were awesome in the 2011 final as well - and most tellingly of all, look what's happened to them since he left. Now, he's off to do a long term job. Just winning the league at Bayern will do fine to start with: allowing their style of play to evolve and become even more multi-dimensional (and crucially, more able to deal with the counter-attack of opponents) represents a longer term project. If all goes well, 10 years from now, we might be hailing Bayern Munich as the biggest club in the world. Not many clubs have that sort of potential - but they do, and the circumstances couldn't be more favourable to them either. There is no evidence to suggest that Guardiola will make Bayern multi-dimensional. Barca under PG were about as one-dimensional as it can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 By the end of 2015/16, Beats. I stand by that too. Sure you said 14/15? But change the goal posts by all means mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Shaun, why are you so optimisic about Liverpool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanjambo Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 By the end of 2015/16, Beats. I stand by that too. I'd say that Liverpool will also be champions by 2016 too. But only if they keep Rodgers and Suarez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I'd say that Liverpool will also be champions by 2016 too. But only if they keep Rodgers and Suarez. You pair could be a double act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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