Paolo Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Once again I am not ITK but here is what a friend told me. Assuming our fine stands it will come off the players' bonus pot. Apparently the players were offered a pot of around ?250,000 between them to qualify for Europe but despite, correctly in my opinion, criticising referees, Vlad also, partially at least, blames the players for the poor discipline that lead to the fine. Personally, if true, I think he is right as a lot of our genuine bookings have been avoidable. I would hope and prefer it though, if their contracts said this could happen to help minimise grief. It is a fair enough clause in my book. Also Stuart Lovell and Fraser Wishart have been round all clubs to advise players to ensure their contracts are water tight to help ensure situations like this do not occur or to ensure everyone knows where they stand if they do occur. Like I said, not ITK, but a mate gets the odd bit of info and sees fit to tell me occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Once again I am not ITK but here is what a friend told me. Assuming our fine stands it will come off the players' bonus pot. Apparently the players were offered a pot of around ?250,000 between them to qualify for Europe but despite, correctly in my opinion, criticising referees, Vlad also, partially at least, blames the players for the poor discipline that lead to the fine. Personally, if true, I think he is right as a lot of our genuine bookings have been avoidable. I would hope and prefer it though, if their contracts said this could happen to help minimise grief. It is a fair enough clause in my book. Also Stuart Lovell and Fraser Wishart have been round all clubs to advise players to ensure their contracts are water tight to help ensure situations like this do not occur or to ensure everyone knows where they stand if they do occur. Like I said, not ITK, but a mate gets the odd bit of info and sees fit to tell me occasionally. If true (big if) a 50:50 split on the fine would probably be fairer. Not sure it's worth ******* the entire squad off over though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Once again I am not ITK but here is what a friend told me. Assuming our fine stands it will come off the players' bonus pot. Apparently the players were offered a pot of around ?250,000 between them to qualify for Europe but despite, correctly in my opinion, criticising referees, Vlad also, partially at least, blames the players for the poor discipline that lead to the fine. Personally, if true, I think he is right as a lot of our genuine bookings have been avoidable. I would hope and prefer it though, if their contracts said this could happen to help minimise grief. It is a fair enough clause in my book. Also Stuart Lovell and Fraser Wishart have been round all clubs to advise players to ensure their contracts are water tight to help ensure situations like this do not occur or to ensure everyone knows where they stand if they do occur. Like I said, not ITK, but a mate gets the odd bit of info and sees fit to tell me occasionally. Can I just add, for anyone reading, especially Barry Anderson and other journos, my friend did not say the Union visit was because of this. I therefore have to assume they are unconnected as that is more likely. Also he did not mention any row or anger about it, probably because it has not yet happened due to the appeal and the fact it is only a consideration at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 If true (big if) a 50:50 split on the fine would probably be fairer. Not sure it's worth ******* the entire squad off over though. A fair point, I suppose. 50% paid for by the players, the other 50% by the referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 If true.....I can imagine there will be an uproar from the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 If true.....I can imagine there will be an uproar from the squad. They're used to not getting their bonuses!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its fair some players should be penalised but not everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaii Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wouldn't Hearts already have had cash off the players to pay the fine with JJ's new disciplinary procedures he put in place before the season? Black & Zal have probably paid about half the fine themselves over the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DikT. Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Guilty players getting deducted, fine. Non guilty, I reckon it is wrong to punish them. Although I guess you could say it is a team sport so everybody is in it together, but that would kind of mean they should all be on the same wages etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wouldn't Hearts already have had cash off the players to pay the fine with JJ's new disciplinary procedures he put in place before the season? Black & Zal have probably paid about half the fine themselves over the season. Not got the stats infront of me, but did Zal have a bad record this season? Red against Hibs but can't remember much more. Inordinate amount of yellows for a CH? Wee Blackie surely clocked up an amount of yellows though! Pala got 2 red cards - both for very similar incidents I think. I'm not massively against the players paying the fine but if VR is doing this, it has to be as part of a staff agreement or pre-stated mandate of some sort. VR more likely just to do it out the blue! Not even against all the players being hit by it. They're a team and even if one guy is ruining it for the team, they deal with it as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Forgot to mention. The fine's a pile of pish anyway. Total disgrace. Celtic get away with what they got away with (similar or worse to what VR has been fined for in the past) but we're getting a ?100,000 (?100,000!!!!!!!!!) fine for yellow cards when our foul count is no higher than any elses and our reds are middle of the road. Joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world_3 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Absolutely insane idea, will kill dressing room morale stone dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsmak Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Absolutely insane idea, will kill dressing room morale stone dead. Or perhaps unite them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well played JJ/the club. Look forward to a season when we will not have bookings for dissent, kicking the ball away after a foul, running in towards the stands after a goal etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wouldn't Hearts already have had cash off the players to pay the fine with JJ's new disciplinary procedures he put in place before the season? Black & Zal have probably paid about half the fine themselves over the season. Correct. Players have already been fined. They cannot now take more cash from them. It doesn't make sense - how can you fine players who have perfectly reasonable disciplinary records for the actions of others who in actual fact have already paid for their indiscipline? Not only have they paid - if they have missed games they will have lost income (hearts gain) in bonus payments. They can for the coming season increase the fines to pay for this seasons charge... but not actually take money from all the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I would imagine it would be quite simple to devise a system where there is pool of money available for bonus payments deducted from which will be any fines the club receives for the players disciplinary record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well played JJ/the club. Look forward to a season when we will not have bookings for dissent, kicking the ball away after a foul, running in towards the stands after a goal etc. You're looking forward to players not celebrating? Must be a right laugh at parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Feck me, that was what jumped out at me too! "Running in towards the stands to celebrate a goal" is 'literally' killing our game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well played JJ/the club. Look forward to a season when we will not have bookings for dissent, kicking the ball away after a foul, running in towards the stands after a goal etc. Christ, the day that players stop celebrating goals in front of their own fans is the day that football is well and truly arsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastajambo Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 does anyone know what the card counts for Hearts have been in the previous years? and have Rangers,Celtic or any other club for that matter been close or have matched the card count this year with our previous years??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I kind of get the point about it perhaps being less fair on those who haven't brought us a high card count but they play as a team, they win as a team and they lose as a team. I kind of like the idea of collective responsibility, especially when the nature of the game means that there are some players in certain positions who are only ever going to get more cards than some of their colleagues as a matter of course. My annual bonus is directly affected by the performance of my colleagues plus a set of personal aims and objectives. I don't see any reason why football can't be the same. You're not entitled to a bonus, you're entitled to your salary. You have to perform well to earn a bonus. The only thing I would have concerns about is any sort of moving of the goalposts. If they have been promised the full amount with no conditions attached then I could understand why they'd be miffed but then the club would have been daft to make that sort of promise in the first place. Asking for some sort of voluntary contribution from the players in recognition of the role they played in getting the fine would be nice, but that's not really how these things work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Christ, the day that players stop celebrating goals in front of their own fans is the day that football is well and truly arsed. We have regularly had players booked for running into the stand. They all know that they will get bookings for it. And then at the end of the season the club gets fined as a result. I love seeing the players celebrate after a goal. But it is a nonsense given the (admittedly faintly ridiculous) rule about bookings for going to the stand that the players are still going off the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 We have regularly had players booked for running into the stand. They all know that they will get bookings for it. And then at the end of the season the club gets fined as a result. I love seeing the players celebrate after a goal. But it is a nonsense given the (admittedly faintly ridiculous) rule about bookings for going to the stand that the players are still going off the pitch. And players should be heavilly fined for that kind of thing, but what about a defender picking up a yellow over the course of a tough match? What about a "sensible" yellow? There are times when a defender wouldn't be doing his job properly if he didn't pick one up. There should be very heavy fines for avoidable/stupid cards but I don't like the idea that the team will be scared of losing bonus money for picking up cards. Also there should be no fines at all or loss of bonus for ridiculous cards picked up from incompetent referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 And players should be heavilly fined for that kind of thing, but what about a defender picking up a yellow over the course of a tough match? What about a "sensible" yellow? There are times when a defender wouldn't be doing his job properly if he didn't pick one up. There should be very heavy fines for avoidable/stupid cards but I don't like the idea that the team will be scared of losing bonus money for picking up cards. Also there should be no fines at all or loss of bonus for ridiculous cards picked up from incompetent referees. I completely agree. And for example the Zaliukas red card against Hibs should not be punished to any great extent. He made a mistake, got on the wrong side but then made a football decision to foul the player. All teams will have those - and a normal level of those won't see the club picking up fines for bad discipline across the season. Similarly the Jonsson or Obua red cards (if not rescinded) should not be fined by the club. It is the stupid ones which we can do something about which bother me. Dissent and kicking the ball away are just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 We have regularly had players booked for running into the stand. They all know that they will get bookings for it. And then at the end of the season the club gets fined as a result. I love seeing the players celebrate after a goal. But it is a nonsense given the (admittedly faintly ridiculous) rule about bookings for going to the stand that the players are still going off the pitch. You are right. The rules are daft and we seem to get penalised more than others, but we know this, so why give the referee a reason. It was like the Falkirk cup game at Falkirk. The one we lost after coming back from behind. I think it was Kyle who got booked for taking his top off. Stupid as he knows he will get booked. A minute or two later when we score again. I can not recall who, but he got booked also, for taking his top off. Stupid, especially when he saw what happened to Kyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.