''My islamist brother''

[ThomasFlogel]

Anybody else watch this? Thoughts?

 

If not then I urge you to watch this on BBC iplayer.

 

Eye opening, some what scary and unbelievable documentary about a normal young English lad from London who has been completely brainwashed into having radical views about Islam, the documentary is made by his brother who manages to get the important questions accross in a non threatening way, which makes the extremist look even more sadistic by opening up and giving us a real insight into these 'views'.

 

Won't spoil it, but some of the things that shocked me were how he would only shake his brothers hand with his left hand (his dirty hand he wipes his arse with) because his brother doesn't follow islam. How watching football is an evil practice. He also decided to burn an american flag with fellow nutcases outside the american embassy on the anniversary of September 11th. Finally he demands that Sharia law (stone a woman for adultery, cut a robbers hand off etc..,) is installed as the only UK law. He essesntially hates the west and everything and everyone in it... but lives here happilly.

 

It was really refreshing that the documentart made certain that the vast majority of muslims hate these radicalised 'people' (I use the term 'people' for want of a better word) but the sheer volume of the radicalised islamists was worrying to see. Never in a million years did I believe there were so many living amongst us, preaching and protesting every day.

 

In my opinion these people should be arrested, they are dangerous. They should be rehabilitated and made to see that accepting the slaughter of thousands of people through terrorist activity is sick and cannot be supported or justified in any way.

 

From a channel that normally has awful documentaries, this is a powerful piece of film, shot in a unique style.

[cosanostra]

Anybody else watch this? Thoughts?

 

From a channel that normally has awful documentaries, this is a powerful piece of film, shot in a unique style.

 

Not watched it yet so won't comment.

However, how does the BBC normally have awful documentaries?

It's usually consistently good for that type of programming I'd say.

[Boris]

I suppose, in a sense, these young Muslims who radicalise are no different to the young Catholics or Protestants who radicalised in the late 60's early 70's and joined groups like the PIRA, INLA, UVF, UDA, UFF etc.

 

But for some, those people were/are treated as heroes.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

BBC do some great doco's.

 

BBC4 is a fantastic channel - topics of every variety. The program about Whitehall has been superb..

[ThomasFlogel]

Not watched it yet so won't comment.

However, how does the BBC normally have awful documentaries?

It's usually consistently good for that type of programming I'd say.

 

Really enjoy BBC's documentaries, especially Theroux...I was referring to BBC3. BBC3's are normally 'Im too young to have a daughter and i want a creme egg' or 'Im a young doctor and i made a mistake, oops, is my make up okay though?'. Not exactly thought provoking like this cracker.

[super_vlad]

Anybody else watch this? Thoughts?

 

If not then I urge you to watch this on BBC iplayer.

 

Eye opening, some what scary and unbelievable documentary about a normal young English lad from London who has been completely brainwashed into having radical views about Islam, the documentary is made by his brother who manages to get the important questions accross in a non threatening way, which makes the extremist look even more sadistic by opening up and giving us a real insight into these 'views'.

 

Won't spoil it, but some of the things that shocked me were how he would only shake his brothers hand with his left hand (his dirty hand he wipes his arse with) because his brother doesn't follow islam. How watching football is an evil practice. He also decided to burn an american flag with fellow nutcases outside the american embassy on the anniversary of September 11th. Finally he demands that Sharia law (stone a woman for adultery, cut a robbers hand off etc..,) is installed as the only UK law. He essesntially hates the west and everything and everyone in it... but lives here happilly.

 

It was really refreshing that the documentart made certain that the vast majority of muslims hate these radicalised 'people' (I use the term 'people' for want of a better word) but the sheer volume of the radicalised islamists was worrying to see. Never in a million years did I believe there were so many living amongst us, preaching and protesting every day.

 

In my opinion these people should be arrested, they are dangerous. They should be rehabilitated and made to see that accepting the slaughter of thousands of people through terrorist activity is sick and cannot be supported or justified in any way.

 

From a channel that normally has awful documentaries, this is a powerful piece of film, shot in a unique style.

It's funny mate, I was watching the doc about the Christian nutters in America on BBC 2, then flicked over and show about the last 14-20 mins of the above. Both programmes seem to be about preaching hate more than anything, tbf both seem to be about 20-30 nut jobs!

[ThomasFlogel]

It's funny mate, I was watching the doc about the Christian nutters in America on BBC 2, then flicked over and show about the last 14-20 mins of the above. Both programmes seem to be about preaching hate more than anything, tbf both seem to be about 20-30 nut jobs!

 

The christian ones were nuts as well, but they don't want to blow anyone up, which is a bonus.

[Sterling Archer]

The christian ones were nuts as well, but they don't want to blow anyone up, which is a bonus.

 

Shame the same can't be said for all christians....

[Auld Reekin']

Anybody else watch this? Thoughts?

 

If not then I urge you to watch this on BBC iplayer.

 

Eye opening, some what scary and unbelievable documentary about a normal young English lad from London who has been completely brainwashed into having radical views about Islam, the documentary is made by his brother who manages to get the important questions accross in a non threatening way, which makes the extremist look even more sadistic by opening up and giving us a real insight into these 'views'.

 

Won't spoil it, but some of the things that shocked me were how he would only shake his brothers hand with his left hand (his dirty hand he wipes his arse with) because his brother doesn't follow islam. How watching football is an evil practice. He also decided to burn an american flag with fellow nutcases outside the american embassy on the anniversary of September 11th. Finally he demands that Sharia law (stone a woman for adultery, cut a robbers hand off etc..,) is installed as the only UK law. He essesntially hates the west and everything and everyone in it... but lives here happilly.

 

It was really refreshing that the documentart made certain that the vast majority of muslims hate these radicalised 'people' (I use the term 'people' for want of a better word) but the sheer volume of the radicalised islamists was worrying to see. Never in a million years did I believe there were so many living amongst us, preaching and protesting every day.

 

In my opinion these people should be arrested, they are dangerous. They should be rehabilitated and made to see that accepting the slaughter of thousands of people through terrorist activity is sick and cannot be supported or justified in any way.

 

From a channel that normally has awful documentaries, this is a powerful piece of film, shot in a unique style.

 

The white, English, "islamist brother" was actually from Weymouth in Dorset, which made it all the more bizarre that somewhere along the line he'd managed to pick-up a strange, comedy-stereotypical Pakistani / Bangladeshi London accent - " insh'allah, bruva, innit?..., etc., etc." - in the 2 or 3 years he'd spent there!

 

It seemed to me that the guy had been a bit of a misfit since his teens, had always felt a bit of an outsider (nothing wrong with any of that - lots of teenagers feel that way), was probably quite immature (again, no crime), and was prepared to do whatever was necessary to gain the acceptance he craved from his new "family" (more sinister...).

 

It certainly was a well-made and thought-provoking documentary, with the main agenda being the "islamist's" half-brother trying to understand his adoption of such a militant and intolerant strand of Islam.

 

The other thing that struck me whilst watching it was the strong likelihood that there were many similarities between the young, English, militant islamists and their counterparts in groups like the EDL: both groups of young guys; both probably feeling alienated by what they see going on around them, things that they have no control over; both groups equally angry about this and with "society" in general; and the probability that, in both groups, there are a high proportion of young who feel a strong need to belong to a group or a society with firm ideals, a clear identity, and an easy-to-understand method to achieve what their objective is. Both "gangs", in fact, both steered by older, more sophisticated, more cynical, senior figures.

 

The statement of yours I've highlighted, I cannot agree with. Young, misguided, and manipulated, "cult members" will always have dangerous ideas and disturbing solutions as to what they see as the problem with the society, or world, around them. Yes, the police could - in theory - start arresting them for various petty public-order offences, but what would be the point? It'd be an enormous additional burden on the police, the court-system, and - in the unlikely event that any of them would actually be gaoled - our prisons. You would almost certainly turn those arrested and convicted into small-scale martyrs too, thus potentially recruiting more misguided young men and woment to their twisted cause. Any action taken against them outwith the current legal framework - if "emergency powers" were granted - could only result in an illegal and unjustifable Guantanimo Bay scenario, which would be even more counter-productive. Much better to do what the police and security-services are currently doing: observe, monitor, gather information, and infiltrate. Shame they're trying to do this with greatly ina dequate resources - a situation that will only deteriorate in the current climate of cost-cutting at all costs...

[Gershwin]

Not watched it yet so won't comment.

However, how does the BBC normally have awful documentaries?

It's usually consistently good for that type of programming I'd say.

 

I was expecting it to be fairly poor as it was on BBC3 but it was an interesting watch. More for the 17 year old in the sub-story who had also just converted as it was interesting to see how he was influenced from both his family and his 'islamist brothers'.

[ThomasFlogel]

I was expecting it to be fairly poor as it was on BBC3 but it was an interesting watch. More for the 17 year old in the sub-story who had also just converted as it was interesting to see how he was influenced from both his family and his 'islamist brothers'.

 

Yeh his mum was a wreck watching him being brainwashed by this crap.

 

Which is why we need to arrest and rehabilitate them to a normal way of thinking or equally effective - shoot them before they force this poisenous attitude on any other lonely soul.

 

Terrorism cannot be justified and they are trying to justify this and also recruit. Words cannot describe how disgusting they are.

[Commander Harris]

I suppose, in a sense, these young Muslims who radicalise are no different to the young Catholics or Protestants who radicalised in the late 60's early 70's and joined groups like the PIRA, INLA, UVF, UDA, UFF etc.

 

But for some, those people were/are treated as heroes.

There's one major difference, the young Catholics and Protestants you mention were not fighting for Catholicism or Protestantism while these young Muslims would claim to be fighting for Islam.

 

PIRA, INLA stated aims were a united Ireland, UVF, UDA/UFF stated aims were to destroy Irish Republican paramilitaries and defend against their attacks. These are not primarily religious aims, unless you count INLA's Marxism as a religion

 

For clarity, I'm not saying there isn't a sectarian aspect to "The Troubles" - there clearly is - just that it's primarily about the political issue of a united Ireland.

 

 

 

 

As for "treated as heroes" - for me, a terrorist is a terrorist and certainly not a hero.

 

 

[Commander Harris]

Shame the same can't be said for all christians....

shame the same can't be said for all.

 

 

 

[Sterling Archer]

shame the same can't be said for all.

 

 

 

 

[Sheriff Fatman]

There's one major difference, the young Catholics and Protestants you mention were not fighting for Catholicism or Protestantism while these young Muslims would claim to be fighting for Islam.

 

They are still extremists that kill other people, they are as bad as each other.

 

 

Murderers are murderers no matter the excuse they use.

[Renoir]

All I could think about after it, was that there money to be made by introduction a Islamic beard dye to the market.....'Just for Mo'.

 

 

Be extremist and dye it blue!

[Auld Reekin']

All I could think about after it, was that there money to be made by introduction a Islamic beard dye to the market.....'Just for Mo'.

 

 

Be extremist and dye it blue!

 

Nah - it'd have to be green as that is the "islamic" colour, apparently...

The 'Beard Serum', a pot of which was the subject of a close-up shot in the young guy's room, seemed to be working well, though! :osama:

[Commander Harris]

They are still extremists that kill other people, they are as bad as each other.

 

 

Murderers are murderers no matter the excuse they use.

that's essentially what I said in my last line that you omitted from your quote.

[Sheriff Fatman]

that's essentially what I said in my last line that you omitted from your quote.

 

It is indeed, my apologies. I was more trying to emphasise that criticise.

[Commander Harris]

It is indeed, my apologies. I was more trying to emphasise that criticise.

 

no worries, my apologies if I misread your comment also!

 

 

just to reiterate, for others, my point wasn't that one form of terrorist was better than another, it was to suggest that "radicalised Irish Nationalist" or "radicalised Unionist" are probably more accurate terms than "radicalised Catholic" or "radicalised protestant".

 

 

 

 

 

[Rick Grimes]

Yeh his mum was a wreck watching him being brainwashed by this crap.

 

Which is why we need to arrest and rehabilitate them to a normal way of thinking or equally effective - shoot them before they force this poisenous attitude on any other lonely soul.

 

Terrorism cannot be justified and they are trying to justify this and also recruit. Words cannot describe how disgusting they are.

 

 

good stuff - buffoonery of the highest order. these people are such a threat to our liberal, democratic values that we should suspend the rule of law and even murder them.

 

[ThomasFlogel]

good stuff - buffoonery of the highest order. these people are such a threat to our liberal, democratic values that we should suspend the rule of law and even murder them.

 

 

It was tongue in cheek, but..

 

They dont deserve to live a life on my taxes - if they think that slaughtering thousands of civilians is acceptable and something that should be celebrated on a yearly basis outside the most insensitive of places. Preferably arrested and rehabilitated, unbrainwashed if you will.

[felix]

Watched it last night and three things struck me:-

 

Firstly how personal the film was .

A simple story of a mans relationship with his brother and his attempt to understand him whilst not judging his views. I thought this worked brilliantly.

 

Secondly. Watching the white Islamists reminded me just how much young people need to belong to a club or obtain some form of social acceptance, whether that's a brotherhood of islam scientology, a bike gang or a football tribe. The founding father of worldwide Islamicism Sayyid Qutb was a social misfit, and there seemed to be quite a few others on "My Islamist Brother" !

 

I also couldn't help thinking the longer we get involved in regime changes in hand-picked muslim countries, the more white islamists there'll be, and the more radical they'll become.

 

I thought one of the films more poignant and revealing moments was the chubby white convert's reason for joining the brotherhood, quoting one of George Bush's battle cry's: "..you're either with us, or against us". Well I'm against YOU.

[The People's Chimp]

I'd like to recommend a book to anyone who was interested in the issues in this programme:

 

The Islamist, by Ed Hussain. It's a really interesting account of his involvement in Islamist extremism, the how and why, and is a very personal account. But what is most striking is the growth and development of his faith.

As an atheist I was left with a profound respect for his spirituality at the end of the book, the growth in his own learning and understanding of islam and how it was from within that he found the understanding and the awareness to leave extremist islamism

 

 

He's been heavily criticised by both Muslims and liberals, but also embraced by some as well. It's been said to be unrepresentative or not giving enough analysis, but this isn't a textbook or a political tract, but a personal account of how it was for him, nothing else. Others have said this could be a weapon in the arsenal of the far right, but I disagree, certainly my experience was to take an increased understanding of Islam, as well as islamism, and an increased respect for aspects of that religion. So on the whole I found it a positive read. I'd definitely recommend it.

 

Worth checking out if you have even the slightest interest in this subject.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Islamist-joined-radical-Britain-inside/dp/0141030437

[Auld Reekin']

I'd like to recommend a book to anyone who was interested in the issues in this programme:

 

The Islamist, by Ed Hussain. It's a really interesting account of his involvement in Islamist extremism, the how and why, and is a very personal account. But what is most striking is the growth and development of his faith.

As an atheist I was left with a profound respect for his spirituality at the end of the book, the growth in his own learning and understanding of islam and how it was from within that he found the understanding and the awareness to leave extremist islamism

 

 

He's been heavily criticised by both Muslims and liberals, but also embraced by some as well. It's been said to be unrepresentative or not giving enough analysis, but this isn't a textbook or a political tract, but a personal account of how it was for him, nothing else. Others have said this could be a weapon in the arsenal of the far right, but I disagree, certainly my experience was to take an increased understanding of Islam, as well as islamism, and an increased respect for aspects of that religion. So on the whole I found it a positive read. I'd definitely recommend it.

 

Worth checking out if you have even the slightest interest in this subject.

 

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0141030437

 

I agree. A well-written, insightful, and thought-provoking book.

[Rick Grimes]

It was tongue in cheek, but..

 

They dont deserve to live a life on my taxes - if they think that slaughtering thousands of civilians is acceptable and something that should be celebrated on a yearly basis outside the most insensitive of places. Preferably arrested and rehabilitated, unbrainwashed if you will.

 

a life on your taxes? so you've now managed to equate them all with being dole bludgers as well as potential internees? any other assumptions you'd like to apply to these people in pursuit of your ultimate goal of having them become free thinking members of society? there are obviously huge inconsistencies between what a lot of them are shouting for & the system we all live under which allows them the freedom to do so, but to argue that they should be arrested and have their thoughts reprogrammed to fit with a more "normal" view is complete lunacy.

[ThomasFlogel]

a life on your taxes? so you've now managed to equate them all with being dole bludgers as well as potential internees? any other assumptions you'd like to apply to these people in pursuit of your ultimate goal of having them become free thinking members of society? there are obviously huge inconsistencies between what a lot of them are shouting for & the system we all live under which allows them the freedom to do so, but to argue that they should be arrested and have their thoughts reprogrammed to fit with a more "normal" view is complete lunacy.

 

So what do you suggest that we keep letting them CELEBRATE the KILLING of INNOCENT people?... Until they decide to DO the KILLING of INNOCENT people?

 

To add insult these 'people' celebrate their 'victories' in the most sickening way in the most innapropriate places. Sick.

 

If these wannabe terrorists HATE us so much why are they here?

[Rick Grimes]

So what do you suggest that we keep letting them CELEBRATE the KILLING of INNOCENT people?... Until they decide to DO the KILLING of INNOCENT people?

 

To add insult these 'people' celebrate their 'victories' in the most sickening way in the most innapropriate places. Sick.

 

If these wannabe terrorists HATE us so much why are they here?

 

 

I'd suggest trying to understand what pushes people in our country towards these extremists & looking to rectify those issues so that the risk of more young men becoming radicalised is diminished. Well, either that or lather myself into a frenzy about how they're all evil and should be killed.

 

You started a good thread about an interesting topic but then descended into just pigeon-holing people as evil terrorist scum who need to be dealt with - the far more interesting avenue of discussion that several folk have tried to take you down is what actually happens to encourage people to become involved in this at all. If your sole point is that they're all mentalists who need sorted then there's not much more to say.

[ThomasFlogel]

I'd suggest trying to understand what pushes people in our country towards these extremists & looking to rectify those issues so that the risk of more young men becoming radicalised is diminished. Well, either that or lather myself into a frenzy about how they're all evil and should be killed.

 

You started a good thread about an interesting topic but then descended into just pigeon-holing people as evil terrorist scum who need to be dealt with - the far more interesting avenue of discussion that several folk have tried to take you down is what actually happens to encourage people to become involved in this at all. If your sole point is that they're all mentalists who need sorted then there's not much more to say.

 

I understand where you are coming from... You're a far more calm and better man than me, I simply cannot get round to the way of thinking that this lot can be calmed down in any rational way. I guess I see planes driven into buildings, bombs slaughtering people and I can't begin to negotiate or entertain anyone who thinks that this is justified.

 

On a different note, because the people in this documentary weren't terrorists.. yet: Theres a huge debate at the moment, should we negotiate/talk with al qaeda/taliban, I guess we should, its the easiest solution, there will probably be less blood as a result.. but I can't, in my one dimensional slightly selfish view - they killed innocent people and thats all I can see, my brain wont mentally let me go past that.

[Adi Dassler]

Well that was quite interesting.

 

Attention seekers and half wits. If it wasn't so scary how similar they are to extremists on the other side (BNP/EDL types) it would be quite funny.

 

I remember the first time i heard any of this 'Islamist' shit. Speakers Corner in Hyde Park, 1997.

 

As this was before 9/11 and the domination of the 24 hour media i had no idea these people existed.

 

I think i preferred it like that.

[Nucky Thompson]

 

 

I remember the first time i heard any of this 'Islamist' shit. Speakers Corner in Hyde Park, 1997.

 

As this was before 9/11 and the domination of the 24 hour media i had no idea these people existed.

 

I think i preferred it like that.

I agree

[south morocco]

Well that was quite interesting.

 

Attention seekers and half wits. If it wasn't so scary how similar they are to extremists on the other side (BNP/EDL types) it would be quite funny.

 

I remember the first time i heard any of this 'Islamist' shit. Speakers Corner in Hyde Park, 1997.

 

As this was before 9/11 and the domination of the 24 hour media i had no idea these people existed.

 

I think i preferred it like that.

 

whilst i agree with the first part of your post ,9/11 was specifically orchestrated to bring it to your and my attention to let you know these people exist ,that was their whole point

[IronJambo]

I picked up a sun at work whilst on a break today and i nearly choked when i was browsing through it. they had a story on this and had a photo of the appartment building he lives in.

 

its an unmistakable building and when i stand on my balcony and face the canal i'm looking at it (the photo must've been taken from my development). i'll be keeping an eye out for this tube

[south morocco]

I picked up a sun at work whilst on a break today and i nearly choked when i was browsing through it. they had a story on this and had a photo of the appartment building he lives in.

 

its an unmistakable building and when i stand on my balcony and face the canal i'm looking at it (the photo must've been taken from my development). i'll be keeping an eye out for this tube

 

 

the paparazzi or MI5 ,or the same ,the plot thickens

[Adi Dassler]

I picked up a sun at work whilst on a break today and i nearly choked when i was browsing through it. they had a story on this and had a photo of the appartment building he lives in.

 

its an unmistakable building and when i stand on my balcony and face the canal i'm looking at it (the photo must've been taken from my development). i'll be keeping an eye out for this tube

 

Do you get a lot of these people handing out leaflets and the like where you are IJ?

 

We get that tube Colin Fox standing outside JJB Sports on Princes Street.

[IronJambo]

Do you get a lot of these people handing out leaflets and the like where you are IJ?

 

We get that tube Colin Fox standing outside JJB Sports on Princes Street.

 

its mostly Bengali people where i live and i've never seen anyone leafleting, at least not that i've paid attention to. i doubt i would be offered a leaflet in any case. some tube stuck up a fly poster nearby for a sharia law march last year (which got cancelled). theres a huge mosque about a half hour walk away in whitechapel and theres plenty of "islamic education centres" dotted around the vicinity.

 

i'd be quite confident that at most the people here are peaceful but i'd be just as confident that there's going to be a fair bit of extemist activity in the area as well. i live in mile end/stepney green (its debatable which) and the zoomer that was on the tv is in mile end since he's on the other side of the canal. Over 40% of Tower Hamlets population is Bengali which makes me and everyone else an outsider. i was walking along the market at whitechapel a few days ago and if i'd filmed everything around me theres no way you'd even think it was in britain

[IronJambo]

heres the article http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3513293/Fanatical-Muslim-convert-gets-his-1k-rent-paid-by-taxpayers-in-country-he-hates.html

 

the biggest shock i got was that hustles kelly adams lives next to me, i just can't beleive she hasn't looked me up!

[Adi Dassler]

its mostly Bengali people where i live and i've never seen anyone leafleting, at least not that i've paid attention to. i doubt i would be offered a leaflet in any case. some tube stuck up a fly poster nearby for a sharia law march last year (which got cancelled). theres a huge mosque about a half hour walk away in whitechapel and theres plenty of "islamic education centres" dotted around the vicinity.

 

i'd be quite confident that at most the people here are peaceful but i'd be just as confident that there's going to be a fair bit of extemist activity in the area as well. i live in mile end/stepney green (its debatable which) and the zoomer that was on the tv is in mile end since he's on the other side of the canal. Over 40% of Tower Hamlets population is Bengali which makes me and everyone else an outsider. i was walking along the market at whitechapel a few days ago and if i'd filmed everything around me theres no way you'd even think it was in britain

 

Is London not statistically a more multi-cultural place than New York now?

[IronJambo]

Is London not statistically a more multi-cultural place than New York now?

 

i couldn't say but its certainly a very multi-cultural and diverse city. its great if you know how to take advantage of it (i'm mainly talking about food here). brick lane is famous for its curry's which is a product of the local population (there are still bagel and bike shops from when it was mainly a jewish or yiddish stronghold in the late 1800's. then you have china town but theres also the less obvious. theres an area of hackney that has a large number of brilliant vietmenese restaurants. settlers from countries have largely stuck together and moved into the same areas and when you go to these places i guess its a bit like dipping your toe into their country.

 

when you live here where people are from becomes quite un-important. i never ever ask anyone where they're from, it doesn't really matter and i don't give a damn unless i get to know them better. at the end of the day we're all just "Londoners", for the time being at least.

 

i've got good friends here from ghana, pakistan, canada, india, japan, nigeria, china, poland, usa, and lithuania. i never really think about where they're from unless theres conflict in their home country that might be causing their families grief.

[ThomasFlogel]

Article says it all.