Boaby Ewing Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Any referees on here that could explain the exact rule for a good old fashioned shoulder barge? My understanding is that as long as it's shoulder-to-shoulder (with a bit of leeway given for players of significantly different height) then it could be as hard as you like -- as long as both players have at least one foot on the ground (so no jumping into the barge/tackle or taking players out in the air). The only other criteria is that the ball has to be within reasonable distance of the two players. But I can't find the exact FIFA rule, beyonds some girly pish about 'excessive force' around other rules for what they term 'barging' (with no mention of shoulders). The reason I ask is I seem to be getting pulled up for it way more often in the US than I ever was in the UK. Are the yanks just a shower of puffs who don't know the rules? Is the rule sometimes different for five-a-side? Is twatting someone sideways when going for a 50:50 ball not one of the greatest parts of the game? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Keep on Topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigger21 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Not sure how the laws apply exactly here although I'm not a ref but I do think that at lot is left to the discretion of the ref and this is the reason the game is played differently in different countries. If you are playing fives then it's probably don to the rules of the comp that you play in, in futsal for instance I don't think you can shoulder charge at all it's pretty much non-contact. I do agree that the physical element is one of the great joys of the game which sadly seems to be disappearing mainly because it was always so good to see a big physical player get skinned by a clever more skillful player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Not sure how the laws apply exactly here although I'm not a ref but I do think that at lot is left to the discretion of the ref and this is the reason the game is played differently in different countries. If you are playing fives then it's probably don to the rules of the comp that you play in, in futsal for instance I don't think you can shoulder charge at all it's pretty much non-contact. I do agree that the physical element is one of the great joys of the game which sadly seems to be disappearing mainly because it was always so good to see a big physical player get skinned by a clever more skillful player. The part in bold is right. It was discussed on the World Football Phone In a few weeks back as well. They were talking about tackles from behind and how now, in the UK, they are being penalised more for it. Its been on Mainland Europe for years and we always wondered why we got punished for it, or other fouls, usually hearing 'well, thats wouldnt be a foul in our league'. Apparently that was the reason. The fourth official is another example of interpretation of rules by refs and national associations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 The most contentious area was charging the keeper. As I understand it if the keeper had both feet on the ground and had possesion of ball they were fair game to be charged/barged with the shoulder and not just shoulder to shoulder. A common example was the Keeper clutching the ball to his chest inside the penalty area and not releasing it. The keeper could be shoulder charged front on their chest and bundled over. In many cases on the goal line and into the net. Or the ball spilled into free play. Believe me this happened. Jimmy wardhaigh scored the winner in cup tie against Celtic by this method and Nat Lofthouse scored an FA cup final goal by this method crocking the keeper at the same time. The justification was that it forced the Keeper into releasing the ball. There was a rule that they could retain possion so long as the bounced it ever 2 or 3 strides or an indirect free kick could be awarded. The ball was deemed to be available for challenge during the bounce phase. A lot of 50s footage shows the keeper getting of their mark as soon as got possesion running around the penalty area bouncing the ball. The onset of regular international football saw the practice phased out. Mainly because there was on and off field riots when Northern European teams (mainly British) inflicted their shoulder charges against southern european and Latin teams.IMO overdue reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 The shoulder charge is going out the game. It used to be a duel of strength that players wanted to win. Now they see it as a chance to win a free kick and an opportunity to fall down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C00l K1d Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 When i used to play school football about 2 year ago it was pretty much go in as hard as you want as long as it was safe to do so, like you said no in the air or that. mind you that was school football and it was pretty much jail rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Keep on Topic please. Fast becoming the worst poster on KB. Anyway, a good shoulder barge is a dying breed. Obviously, there is a sliding scale of acceptability, and as said above, it's a matter of the ref's discretion. Must be maddeingly frustrating at fives though, which is a hugely physical game, being penalised for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Any referees on here that could explain the exact rule for a good old fashioned shoulder barge? My understanding is that as long as it's shoulder-to-shoulder (with a bit of leeway given for players of significantly different height) then it could be as hard as you like -- as long as both players have at least one foot on the ground (so no jumping into the barge/tackle or taking players out in the air). The only other criteria is that the ball has to be within reasonable distance of the two players. But I can't find the exact FIFA rule, beyonds some girly pish about 'excessive force' around other rules for what they term 'barging' (with no mention of shoulders). The reason I ask is I seem to be getting pulled up for it way more often in the US than I ever was in the UK. Are the yanks just a shower of puffs who don't know the rules? Is the rule sometimes different for five-a-side? Is twatting someone sideways when going for a 50:50 ball not one of the greatest parts of the game? Discuss. I'm a lowly Grade 7 (or whatever the lowest level is these days) and this is a constant bone of contention. For me shoulder charging can only be legitimate when two players are going together (literally shoulder to shoulder) to chase the ball. Usually forwards will wimp out of the battle of strength (and that is what it is supposed to be) and claim they've been fouled, most of the time. Simply barging into your opponent would be a foul. I had one incident at the weekend where a player shoulder charged his opponent . He screamed at me with the usual 'I shoulder charged him!' but I said as his opponent didn't have the ball and the guilty party had gone in the opposite direction of the ball to delberatley obstruct I was giving a foul for obstruction. A lot of guys just don't get it. Also , players will frequently barge into an opponent with their shoulder from behind thinking it's perfectly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Legitimate challenge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjfwdO5AOZw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Legitimate challenge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjfwdO5AOZw When I looked at that and some of the related videos I found this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandylejambo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 a shoulder charge is only legal if its shoulder to shoulder and within playing distance of the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommythejambo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Keep on Topic please. I'm intrigued to know how something could be edited by a Mod on a thread about shoulder barging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Legitimate challenge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjfwdO5AOZw Eyes on the ball all the way. Fair challenge. If refs want respect all they need to do is allow shoulder barges. My heart swells with admiration for the man in black when i see him look witheringly at an opposition players whose been legitimately knocked on his backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Definition from a US (soccer) site Shoulder Charge - (aka "Fair Charging"). A type of "tackle" which can be legally used to try to "win" (i.e., gain possession of) the ball. To be legal, it: (a) cannot take place from behind ( is only permitted within playing distance (i.e., 3 feet) of the ball ( c) cannot be violent or dangerous (d) must be intended to win the ball & not just to knock down the opponent (e) must be shoulder to shoulder (not to the opponents chest or back) with the arms (especially elbows) close to the body (f) the player must have at least one foot on the ground (i.e., he can't leap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTidy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 On a similar note, I was playing 11 a side at the weekend and the ref penalized us for taking throw in behind where the ball went out. As in closer to our own goal. I didn't think that was against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'm intrigued to know how something could be edited by a Mod on a thread about shoulder barging. I made comments about certain refs on K.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 On a similar note, I was playing 11 a side at the weekend and the ref penalized us for taking throw in behind where the ball went out. As in closer to our own goal. I didn't think that was against the rules. I saw that in an EOS league game this year. Totally baffled the players, coaches and the fans. Never seen it before and after speaking to a ref mate of mine, he'd never heard of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I made comments about certain refs on K.B. What do you mean ref's on KB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 What do you mean ref's on KB? Nothing m8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks for the responses, but in all honesty I'm still none the wiser. Looks like it's at the ref's discretion as to whether a shoulder-to-shoulder challenge is deemed 'a bit much' or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Thanks for the responses, but in all honesty I'm still none the wiser. Looks like it's at the ref's discretion as to whether a shoulder-to-shoulder challenge is deemed 'a bit much' or not. Pretty much (and its dependant on the country's information to refs too BTW). But thats the same for any offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 On a similar note, I was playing 11 a side at the weekend and the ref penalized us for taking throw in behind where the ball went out. As in closer to our own goal. I didn't think that was against the rules. You take the throw in from where the ball goes out. Its a bit pernickity for the ref to pull you up about it, but why should you be allowed to gain an advantage by taking a throw closer to your own goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N User Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Zal got penalised for a great shoulder challenge on saturday. Shocking decision from the ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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