The Damp Squib Thread

[johnjl]

Yes thats true, but we've caused that problem ourselves by signing all these players that we didnt really need if we had placed a bit more trust in our youth system, Mrowiec, Black, Stevenson, Bouzid, Kucharski, Obua, Balogh, Suso, Palazuelos. Nine players involved in Saturday's first team squad to some degree. I'm not saying all of them were/are garbage and thats not the point I'm trying to make, but in my view we didnt NEED to sign a single one of them if our youth policy was working. Our youth policy NOW clearly has a log jam at best or at worst, simply isnt working at all or isnt being allowed to prove itself is probably more accurate.

I get where you are coming from but I don't think there are any spl clubs who have a youth policy that works to the extent you expect ours to work and there are no spl clubs who have signed "journeymen" pros who haven't worked out as well as they had hoped.

I think we get our fair share through from the youths, judging purely by the players who have featured recently and think your expectations are a wee bit unrealistic.

 

in saying all that I know nothing at all about guys like park, balatoni etc.

[PTBCAL]

JJ is trying to get rid of quite a few players including youngsters.

[Drylaw Hearts]

ah fair enough. Park has come back from injury but really needs match fitness (dont think he has ever played a senior game of football, at the age of 22 that is crazy.) Cowdenbeath would be a good move (presume its a loan move.) I think Glen going to Killie for a season long loan would be beneficial (plus being under a manager who was a renowned striker helps as well.) I feel sorry for Black if he leaves as he is a Hearts fan and he will always be seen as a player who did not play at all well for Hearts.

 

I made a similar comment on here not that long ago.

[Only a Game]

JJ was asked a direct question by Scott Wilson as to who had it.

 

At the very leat I was expecting say, Scott Walker to be mentioned, but JJ said that most of them have a long, long way to go. His tone wasn't that of a man trying to keep feet firmy on the ground. Not even a generic that one or two of them have a right good chance if they knuckled down.

See if there's one thing I agree with Romanov on its the fact that our future must come from players developed by us. I cant really understand why two successive managers have been allowed to completely and openly undermine that statement. Jefferies attitude to youth players sounds like a carbon copy of Csaba Laszlo if you take that statement at face value.

[jimbrown76]

Haven't read through the previous pages of this thread so I apologise if I am repeating anything.

 

Word in Tranent is that Ian Black is going to Killie as part of the deal.

 

Good old Mixu had Blacky up at East Mains before we signed him but the terms on offer weren't as good as ours, not by a long shot.

[Ryan Gosling]

I made a similar comment on here not that long ago.

 

He's also got ideas way above his stations due to having a five year contract, that has three years to run.

[JamboRossi79]

We've got over 60 pro's on the books and no reserve league. Our playing staff is WAY too big for a club with our income and we could do with shedding at least 15 players from it. Unfortunately we've handed out 5 year contracts like lavvy paper and we're stuck with a whole generation of players who will never kick a ball in anger for us.

 

That's a bit misleading considering we still have U19 and U17 so they get competitive football.

 

In first team contention we currently have 27 and that includes Robinson who can still play U19.

[DETTY29]

JJ is being coy. Jason Holt and Jamie Walker are two of the highest rated players since the Academy opened.

Formal apologies to Jamie Walker. I did know who I meant.

 

I suppose we will see in the fullness of time.

[Drylaw Hearts]

He's also got ideas way above his stations due to having a five year contract, that has three years to run.

 

I think we gave out too many 5 year deals to younger players who probably didn't deserve them.

[Only a Game]

I get where you are coming from but I don't think there are any spl clubs who have a youth policy that works to the extent you expect ours to work and there are no spl clubs who have signed "journeymen" pros who haven't worked out as well as they had hoped.

I think we get our fair share through from the youths, judging purely by the players who have featured recently and think your expectations are a wee bit unrealistic.

 

in saying all that I know nothing at all about guys like park, balatoni etc.

 

I dont know all that much about them either to be honest. I'm talking more about guys that I HAVE seen. For example McGowan and Mulrooney. McGowan IMO is as good if not better than Black or Mrowiec. Mulrooney (and I havent seen as much of him) is every bit as good, if not better, than Stevenson IMO) There are other examples of youth players who COULD have been given a chance by now. By that I mean a run in the team for half a dozen games. IMO If both McGowan and Mulrooney and perhaps a couple of others of the same ilk had been given a run in the team from the point last season when we were playing meaningless games (after the league cup exit) they might well have been first team starters by now and we'd be saying Craig fecking who ? As it is we've lost a massive opportunity that isnt probably going to come round again until we're playing meaningless games at the end of THIS season, which might or might not be around the same time as it was last season.

[alex plode]

One thing you can say about JJ is if the youth are good enough he will give them a chance. Can't see us signing Bryson before the window closes, hope to be proved wrong.

[johnjl]

See if there's one thing I agree with Romanov on its the fact that our future must come from players developed by us. I cant really understand why two successive managers have been allowed to completely and openly undermine that statement. Jefferies attitude to youth players sounds like a carbon copy of Csaba Laszlo if you take that statement at face value.

 

but with Glen. Wallace, novikovas, driver, mulrooney, Craig Thomson, Jason Thomson, Paul mulrooney, novikovas, mcgowan,eggert and temps/ Gordon smith (signed at a young age) all featuring in the first team at some stage isn't jj doing enough?

 

surely some players haven't been given a chance because they are not ready or good enough which is the managers shout.

[Only a Game]

That's a bit misleading considering we still have U19 and U17 so they get competitive football.

 

In first team contention we currently have 27 and that includes Robinson who can still play U19.

 

We need to get around this no reserve league nonsense ( by that I mean we need to learn how to cope with the fact that there isnt one) and have 6-8, 19's in that 27 . It appears it contains ONE. Thats just wrong.

[johnjl]

I dont know all that much about them either to be honest. I'm talking more about guys that I HAVE seen. For example McGowan and Mulrooney. McGowan IMO is as good if not better than Black or Mrowiec. Mulrooney (and I havent seen as much of him) is every bit as good, if not better, than Stevenson IMO) There are other examples of youth players who COULD have been given a chance by now. By that I mean a run in the team for half a dozen games. IMO

If both McGowan and Mulrooney and perhaps a couple of others of the same ilk had been given a run in the team from the point last season when we were playing meaningless games (after the league cup exit) they might well have been first team starters by now and we'd be saying Craig fecking who ? As it is we've lost a massive opportunity that isnt probably going to come round again until we're playing meaningless games at the end of THIS season, which might or might not be around the same time as it was last season.

 

I do get it and maybe you are right but if jj were to select those players and they cost us points. even "meaningless" points I wonder how supportive of manager and players our support would be.

but you raised some valid points and maybe more youngsters should be given a chance.

[jamboinglasgow]

See if there's one thing I agree with Romanov on its the fact that our future must come from players developed by us. I cant really understand why two successive managers have been allowed to completely and openly undermine that statement. Jefferies attitude to youth players sounds like a carbon copy of Csaba Laszlo if you take that statement at face value.

 

Not really. Csaba disliked the youngsters and didn't know really how to handle them. JJ feels that the problem is we have too many come through, some are ok but not better then what we have. He does rate quite a few but feels we need to get rid of a few. Csaba on the other hand saw the youngsters as an annoyance rather then a project to develop.

 

At the time the U19s come to getting the chance to get a new contract they will be offered 1 year deals to keep them hungry, 5 year deals were the problem and they were handed out freely. JJ is simply making it more proffesional on how they are developed rather then lapse as it was before. That has been our problem in the past, the academy works really well but the next stage doesn't.

[marshallschunkychicken]

For what it's worth, it looked like McGowan was coming on right up until United scored yesterday.

[Only a Game]

but with Glen. Wallace, novikovas, driver, mulrooney, Craig Thomson, Jason Thomson, Paul mulrooney, novikovas, mcgowan,eggert and temps/ Gordon smith (signed at a young age) all featuring in the first team at some stage isn't jj doing enough?

 

surely some players haven't been given a chance because they are not ready or good enough which is the managers shout.

 

Some of those (Wallace and Driver in particular) are a sign of a good youth policy in action, I agree. A couple of them (Glen and Jason Thomson) are a sign that we're not producing enough really good youth players and some of them (Mulrooney and McGowan in particular) are a sign that average journeymen are keeping good youth players out of the team and essentially wasting them.

 

We havent got the balance right IMO and something needs to give. Yes it is the managers shout but what he's doing appears to be taking the safe and very limited line to me.

[Coco]

Some of those (Wallace and Driver in particular) are a sign of a good youth policy in action, I agree. A couple of them (Glen and Jason Thomson) are a sign that we're not producing enough really good youth players and some of them (Mulrooney and McGowan in particular) are a sign that average journeymen are keeping good youth players out of the team and essentially wasting them.

 

We havent got the balance right IMO and something needs to give. Yes it is the managers shout but what he's doing appears to be taking the safe and very limited line to me.

 

There would not be a problem if JJ could move on the current journeymen. Some of them go back to pyramid days and it is clear that it is impossible to move these players on. They simply won't get money anything like their current contracts anywhere else. So JJ has to wait until the pyramid/Laszlo's journeymen run out of contract and they leave the club.

 

However, he will be judged on results - particularly at a club where the manager is changed so often. So he wants his journeymen brought to the club in an effort to get short term results. Therefore the squad is full of pyramid/Laszlo/JJ journeymen and the young players with the daft long term contracts of the mismanaged past.

 

Only time will cure this problem. Either that or some clubs lose their minds and offer big deals to the weaker players in our squad.

[Only a Game]

Not really. Csaba disliked the youngsters and didn't know really how to handle them. JJ feels that the problem is we have too many come through, some are ok but not better then what we have. He does rate quite a few but feels we need to get rid of a few. Csaba on the other hand saw the youngsters as an annoyance rather then a project to develop.

 

At the time the U19s come to getting the chance to get a new contract they will be offered 1 year deals to keep them hungry, 5 year deals were the problem and they were handed out freely. JJ is simply making it more proffesional on how they are developed rather then lapse as it was before. That has been our problem in the past, the academy works really well but the next stage doesn't.

 

I agree the five year deals have been an unmitigated disaster and hopefully we're very nearly through that and things will get better so that only the real cream on a season by season basis gets kept and we can get a conveyor belt going where two or three a year break into the team. However I think its wrong to have the likes of Obua and Kucharski on the bench when we should be populating it with those few 19's that the manager rates. How else is he going to find out if his rating of them was correct ? If I was a Mulrooney or a McGowan or a Robinson I'd be awfully fecking depressed to see Mrowiec Black and Stevenson starting games and being kept on for 90 minutes in which frequently neither of them did anything telling

[johnjl]

Some of those (Wallace and Driver in particular) are a sign of a good youth policy in action, I agree. A couple of them (Glen and Jason Thomson) are a sign that we're not producing enough really good youth players and some of them (Mulrooney and McGowan in particular) are a sign that average journeymen are keeping good youth players out of the team and essentially wasting them.

We havent got the balance right IMO and something needs to give. Yes it is the managers shout but what he's doing appears to be taking the safe and very limited line to me.

 

I think wasting them is a bit strong. McGowan was put out on loan to get first team experience last season which is surely a good thing.

 

mulrooney I agree hasn't been given a chance and one or two others, novi included just don't look ready but all in all I take on board what you're saying and as my knowledge of our younger players is limited I can't really comment much more.

[Only a Game]

Kello

C Thomson Barr Zaliukas Wallace

Suso Jonnson McGowan Templeton

Robinson or Mulrooney

Kyle

 

 

That to me is a reasonable blend of youth and experience that wouldnt let us down in any way. (Maybe not at Ibrox and Parkhead admittedly)

 

By all means put some experience on the bench in case one or two of them are finding it tough to cope but we're doing it the wrong way round IMO

[Only a Game]

I think wasting them is a bit strong. McGowan was put out on loan to get first team experience last season which is surely a good thing.

 

mulrooney I agree hasn't been given a chance and one or two others, novi included just don't look ready but all in all I take on board what you're saying and as my knowledge of our younger players is limited I can't really comment much more.

 

I think it was a mistake leaving McGowan at Ayr for the whole season but I'm nit picking now

[Guest jambomickey]

i do now expect bryson to be a hearts player tommorow.

[johnjl]

i do now expect bryson to be a hearts player tommorow.

why

[magicTs]

I agree the five year deals have been an unmitigated disaster and hopefully we're very nearly through that and things will get better so that only the real cream on a season by season basis gets kept and we can get a conveyor belt going where two or three a year break into the team. However I think its wrong to have the likes of Obua and Kucharski on the bench when we should be populating it with those few 19's that the manager rates. How else is he going to find out if his rating of them was correct ? If I was a Mulrooney or a McGowan or a Robinson I'd be awfully fecking depressed to see Mrowiec Black and Stevenson starting games and being kept on for 90 minutes in which frequently neither of them did anything telling

 

 

Back to the quality not quantity mantra OAG which has been completely overlooked by our football club for several years now. We should pinpoint suitable senior professionals (Hartley was an example) who would be on more than decent wages but would bring something to the side and as importantly help our more promising youngsters. Instead we are absolute experts in bringing in 'numbers' who improve nothing and add considerably to the wage bill. We have so many players of similar ability (or lack of it) the central midfield being a prime example. Why bring Mrowiec in when we already have a couple of mediocre players ? Now we have 3 of them on wages who are just as average as each other. There has needed to be a concise and definite gameplan for ages and yet we have players like Kucharski who we simply do not need. Its little wonder we have wasted millions upon millions.

[jamboinglasgow]

I agree the five year deals have been an unmitigated disaster and hopefully we're very nearly through that and things will get better so that only the real cream on a season by season basis gets kept and we can get a conveyor belt going where two or three a year break into the team. However I think its wrong to have the likes of Obua and Kucharski on the bench when we should be populating it with those few 19's that the manager rates. How else is he going to find out if his rating of them was correct ? If I was a Mulrooney or a McGowan or a Robinson I'd be awfully fecking depressed to see Mrowiec Black and Stevenson starting games and being kept on for 90 minutes in which frequently neither of them did anything telling

 

There is a conveyor belt of talent, every year has a few great talents, some years have more then others. Its a case of getting the right ones, giving the right contracts, developing them in the first year through loans or occasional apperances and training with the first team (this is where a reserve league would be really helpful.) Keep them hungry and build them up. Of course some develop quicker then others so each player's path needs to be tailored there way, that is where a coach can JJ can be the expert.

 

As for the U19s while it is good to reward some with a place on the bench, the danger is that with their games being usually on the same day as the first team games, if they dont play in the first team game when on the bench they dont get a game. Last season Gordon Smith suffered when he spent half a season on the bench didn't play a 90 mins competitive game since January his form suffered when he did come on. It would of been better to send him back to the U19s to get some regular games then bring him to the subs bench every so often.

 

Its a balancing act with youth, if you do it right it provides a rich seam of talent for the first team and money coming in, if it is done wrong you have ruined many players with talent.

[Guest jambomickey]

why

because things have apparently moved along today.

[johnjl]

because things have apparently moved along today.

come on mickey stop being so guarded.

 

SPILL !

[magicTs]

because things have apparently moved along today.

 

 

Care to elaborate on what you have heard or is it a secret ?!

[Guest jambomickey]

come on mickey stop being so guarded.

 

SPILL !

a certain member of the hearts coaching staff is now confident a deal will be done before the deadline, a deal that is acceptable to killie is now in place.

[magicTs]

a certain member of the hearts coaching staff is now confident a deal will be done before the deadline, a deal that is acceptable to killie is now in place.

 

 

Ok, thats positive. Are we 'losing' anyone as an added bonus ?!

[johnjl]

a certain member of the hearts coaching staff is now confident a deal will be done before the deadline, a deal that is acceptable to killie is now in place.

did you hear this directly through the hearts staff member or third hand? fourth hand?

 

precise answer please.

[blairdin]

a certain member of the hearts coaching staff is now confident a deal will be done before the deadline, a deal that is acceptable to killie is now in place.

 

Do you know or have any vibe if the proposed deal is acceptable to the player(s) that will be haeding the other way along the A71?

[Guest jambomickey]

did you hear this directly through the hearts staff member or third hand? fourth hand?

 

precise answer please.

directly, spoke to the said coach myself tonight.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

If Mickey has this one wrong, you're all free to wire in. But first, get in line.

[johnjl]

directly, spoke to the said coach myself tonight.

I'm very impressed did this coach tell you if anyone was leaving hearts and going to killie?

[Guest vanbasten1874]

directly, spoke to the said coach myself tonight.

 

 

You do know your sticking your errrr credibilty on the line if this deal go's tits up ...

[Only a Game]

If Mickey has this one wrong, you're all free to wire in. But first, get in line.

I dont think Mickey has spoken to a coach tonight, unless there's one parked outside his house

 

But I do think we'll sign Bryson tomorrow and always did think it'd be on the last day once Killie had finished with the brinkmanship games.

[Chad Sexington]

directly, spoke to the said coach myself tonight.

 

That's a big call, Mickey.

 

Hope you're right...for your sake.

 

JKB can be very unforgiving to "In the know" posters who get it wrong.

 

[HANS ESKILSON]

PLEASE LET IT BE KUCHARSKI , BLACK AND GLEN THAT GO OR IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK. they would prob still want 300.ooo to take that lot of our hands

[Guest jambomickey]

You do know your sticking your errrr credibilty on the line if this deal go's tits up ...

i coach at youth level and one of the laddies who plays in my team is related to my insider! after training tonight i had a word with the person in question who told me the coaching staff at hearts were now confident of getting bryson before the window shuts.

[DETTY29]

directly, spoke to the said coach myself tonight.

I know it's infuriating not getting information but I'm slightly concerned about the loose lips of our coaching staff.

 

This comment can be added to

 

Kucharski is an electrician

With our budget we should be miles above the rest and it won't be difficult to do

Gary Locke is the best right back at the club

[Guest vanbasten1874]

i coach at youth level and one of the laddies who plays in my team is related to my insider! after training tonight i had a word with the person in question who told me the coaching staff at hearts were now confident of getting bryson before the window shuts.

 

I admire your bravery...

[johnjl]

i coach at youth level and one of the laddies who plays in my team is related to my insider! after training tonight i had a word with the person in question who told me the coaching staff at hearts were now confident of getting bryson before the window shuts.

when Gary Locke or Darren Murray told you this did they say which hearts player was going the other way

[HANS ESKILSON]

There is a conveyor belt of talent, every year has a few great talents, some years have more then others. Its a case of getting the right ones, giving the right contracts, developing them in the first year through loans or occasional apperances and training with the first team (this is where a reserve league would be really helpful.) Keep them hungry and build them up. Of course some develop quicker then others so each player's path needs to be tailored there way, that is where a coach can JJ can be the expert.

 

As for the U19s while it is good to reward some with a place on the bench, the danger is that with their games being usually on the same day as the first team games, if they dont play in the first team game when on the bench they dont get a game. Last season Gordon Smith suffered when he spent half a season on the bench didn't play a 90 mins competitive game since January his form suffered when he did come on. It would of been better to send him back to the U19s to get some regular games then bring him to the subs bench every so often.

 

Its a balancing act with youth, if you do it right it provides a rich seam of talent for the first team and money coming in, if it is done wrong you have ruined many players with talent.

 

 

 

 

spot on !!

[Guest jambomickey]

when Gary Locke or Darren Murray told you this did they say which hearts player was going the other way

i didn't mention names, let's wait and see if what i've said is correct.

[adam1998]

i coach at youth level and one of the laddies who plays in my team is related to my insider! after training tonight i had a word with the person in question who told me the coaching staff at hearts were now confident of getting bryson before the window shuts.

 

As mentioned by CK a few days ago- are they getting one or 2 players from us if you've been told and are the players leaving permanently?

 

Personally i want to keep Glen- indications from all the JKB ITK guys are it will be either Black and Glen or both

 

Noticed you never mentioned outs on the in/out thread

[Guest jambomickey]

As mentioned by CK a few days ago- are they getting one or 2 players from us if you've been told and are the players leaving permanently?

 

Personally i want to keep Glen- indications from all the JKB ITK guys are it will be either Black and Glen or both

 

Noticed you never mentioned outs on the in/out thread

blacks been mentioned, glens been mentioned and i think jj would happily let jason thomson go but all i was told tonight was that the coaching team are confident bryson will be signed tommorow.

[adam1998]

blacks been mentioned, glens been mentioned and i think jj would happily let jason thomson go but all i was told tonight was that the coaching team are confident bryson will be signed tommorow.

 

Cheers Mickey- good news re JJ getting his top target- not much work getting done tommorow then

[rossthejambo]

blacks been mentioned, glens been mentioned and i think jj would happily let jason thomson go but all i was told tonight was that the coaching team are confident bryson will be signed tommorow.

 

Jason was the one that I had a hunch would be going in that direction.

 

I really don't think Black will be the one to move on.