Is Edinburgh open

[david mcgee]

Thank f-o-o-k there isnt many visitors to our once beautiful City at this time of year.

The whole City is a complete shambles.

St. Andrews Square is a building site, the Grassmarket has more trenches than the Somme. Princes Street is a joke, but not quite as laughable as Leith Walk. Horse Wynd is closed, as is Infirmary Street numerous others are now no right or left turns. Every other street has some form of roadworks, Slateford Road is on its third set in six months. The pot holes are deep enough for diving into, and every statue is covered in scaffold.

Edinburgh is a total 5h1t pit and its not all about trams, whats going on?

[neobis]

Thank f-o-o-k there isnt many visitors to our once beautiful City at this time of year.

The whole City is a complete shambles.

St. Andrews Square is a building site, the Grassmarket has more trenches than the Somme. Princes Street is a joke, but not quite as laughable as Leith Walk. Horse Wynd is closed, as is Infirmary Street numerous others are now no right or left turns. Every other street has some form of roadworks, Slateford Road is on its third set in six months. The pot holes are deep enough for diving into, and every statue is covered in scaffold.

Edinburgh is a total 5h1t pit and its not all about trams, whats going on?

 

I don't have a problem with it.

 

Neither do most other visitors as they mainly walk about the city centre seeing all the usual beautiful sites.

[Beverley]

i absolutely have a problem with it

 

 

i know ONE person in favour of trams and he'll not even benefit from it!

 

 

its added about 1? hours day to my travelling, and cos my car is buggered, i'm at the mercy of the bus. i've been late a few times this month because of it

 

 

last week, i got on the bus at 8am at the foot of the walk and it was 20 to 9 by the time we reached elm row

 

 

there is NO benefit, and i think its a punishment for the "no" vote on a congestion charge

[davemclaren]

It's best to have the disruption at this time of year as it has least effect on the tourists. I'm personally looking forward to the trams but I'm not an Edinburgh council tax payer.

[cosanostra]

It's best to have the disruption at this time of year as it has least effect on the tourists. I'm personally looking forward to the trams but I'm not an Edinburgh council tax payer.

 

I agree with Dave McLovin.

 

I think they'll look great and will be cool but i don't live in Edinburgh or have to put up with the disruption.

 

That sounds terrible btw Beverley, how about investing in a bike or a scooter or something?

[davemclaren]

I agree with Dave McLovin.

 

 

Eh?

[cosanostra]

Eh?

 

It's a pop-culture reference Dave.

 

From a film called Superbad.

 

It's reasonably funny.

[davemclaren]

It's a pop-culture reference Dave.

 

From a film called Superbad.

 

It's reasonably funny.

 

I'm sure it's complimentary anyway.

[BoJack Horseman]

It's a pop-culture reference Dave.

 

From a film called Superbad.

 

It's reasonably funny.

 

I thought it was pretty poor.

[cosanostra]

I'm sure it's complimentary anyway.

 

It was, he turns out to be the coolest kid at school.

[davemclaren]

It was, he turns out to be the coolest kid at school.

 

Yo must have known me at school then.....

[Das Root]

It's a pop-culture reference Dave.

 

From a film called Superbad.

 

It's reasonably funny.

 

 

I liked Superbad. Not as good as Knocked Up but the scenes with the cops and the kid were quality

[cosanostra]

I liked Superbad. Not as good as Knocked Up but the scenes with the cops and the kid were quality

 

I liked it better than knocked up but it was just ok, not great.

 

McLovin was a great character though.

[Beverley]

I agree with Dave McLovin.

 

I think they'll look great and will be cool but i don't live in Edinburgh or have to put up with the disruption.

 

That sounds terrible btw Beverley, how about investing in a bike or a scooter or something?

 

i agree that i think they'll LOOK good, but the fact they are getting rid of the 22 service, which is possibly the busiest route in edinburgh for something that won't seat as many people, and the stops will be further apart, and the fact they will only be useful to around 4% of the city population isn't good. we got rid of the trams years back cos they weren't seen as a viable and sustainable option makes me think this will be a huge waste of time & money.

 

 

bike or scooter?

hmmmmm as a driver i'm obliged to hate em. i hate (most) cyclists, especially the ones who think they don't need to pay any attention to the rules of the road, but scooters are pretty cool.

[cosanostra]

i agree that i think they'll LOOK good, but the fact they are getting rid of the 22 service, which is possibly the busiest route in edinburgh for something that won't seat as many people, and the stops will be further apart, and the fact they will only be useful to around 4% of the city population isn't good. we got rid of the trams years back cos they weren't seen as a viable and sustainable option makes me think this will be a huge waste of time & money.

 

 

bike or scooter?

hmmmmm as a driver i'm obliged to hate em. i hate (most) cyclists, especially the ones who think they don't need to pay any attention to the rules of the road, but scooters are pretty cool.

 

You could get one of those big heavy parkas and a cool 80s looking quadrophenia style scooter. I think that scene is pretty cool.

[Beverley]

i could do the mod thing

 

quad was on ITV4 on thursday, and while its aged, it was still a terrific film to watch

[Jarhead]

It's best to have the disruption at this time of year as it has least effect on the tourists. I'm personally looking forward to the trams but I'm not an Edinburgh council tax payer.

 

Even if you don't live in Edinburgh, if you pay any sort of tax, you are paying for this vanity project.

[davemclaren]

Even if you don't live in Edinburgh, if you pay any sort of tax, you are paying for this vanity project.

 

I'd rather pay for this than war in Iraq but that's another story.

 

Vanity Project - Is the what the French call the TGV? I can't really argue the cost/benefits of this particular one but the UK has a terrible attitude to capital investment in transport infrastructure.

[Tams bird]

Been reading about Shadwick Place closing for 8 weeks from 1st March to reroute water and gas mains etc for the trams we really need....

[ArmiyaRomanova]

Not convinced by the tram at all.

 

What the city really needs is a MONORAIL!

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Yo must have known me at school then.....

 

That can't be confirmed Dave, the records dont go back that far!

[davemclaren]

That can't be confirmed Dave, the records dont go back that far!

 

Ha, bloody Ha.

[Jarhead]

I'd rather pay for this than war in Iraq but that's another story.

 

Vanity Project - Is the what the French call the TGV? I can't really argue the cost/benefits of this particular one but the UK has a terrible attitude to capital investment in transport infrastructure.

 

Dave, I agree completly that we have a terrible record when it comes to investing in transport.

I would say the trams are a vanity project because although it will serve a small percentage of the population it will be highly visible.

The South Sub could be reopened, serving just about as many people, for around ?10 million.

For the cost of the trams we could replace the whole of the bus fleet with low emmision vehicles and subsidise the cost of fares for several years.

The reopened Waverly line will only be single track meaning journey times will be no quicker than going by car.

Basically there are plenty of better options to spend the tram money on but none of them will make Edinburgh a 'cool' European city.

[davemclaren]

Dave, I agree completly that we have a terrible record when it comes to investing in transport.

I would say the trams are a vanity project because although it will serve a small percentage of the population it will be highly visible.

The South Sub could be reopened, serving just about as many people, for around ?10 million.

For the cost of the trams we could replace the whole of the bus fleet with low emmision vehicles and subsidise the cost of fares for several years.

The reopened Waverly line will only be single track meaning journey times will be no quicker than going by car.

Basically there are plenty of better options to spend the tram money on but none of them will make Edinburgh a 'cool' European city.

 

I think the south sub will not be popular with Rail Freight companies as it is effectively the Waverley and Haymarket bypass at present.

 

Re the Waverley line, I live in Midlothain and with the amount of housing getting built out here, even a single line from Gorebridge/Newtongrange/Eskbank into the city centre and beyond would be a godsend. The Borders bit is a lot less justifiable in terms of hard money..

[maltese jambo]

i absolutely have a problem with it

 

 

i know ONE person in favour of trams and he'll not even benefit from it!

 

 

its added about 1? hours day to my travelling, and cos my car is buggered, i'm at the mercy of the bus. i've been late a few times this month because of it

 

 

last week, i got on the bus at 8am at the foot of the walk and it was 20 to 9 by the time we reached elm row

 

 

there is NO benefit, and i think its a punishment for the "no" vote on a congestion charge

Make that 2 in favour of trams

 

you's are all a bunch of selfish buggers! as long as you have your wee dirty car each and your same out little route from home to work, home to work stays clear your happy.... you dont consider the damage your lifestyles making because its not currently tangible.

 

Im glad theres all this disruption...at least its made you lot think a bit.

 

As for the argument about '...oh but its just the one route its not enough' get real. If they had made more routes you'd be going ape about the disruption.

[Tazio]

Not convinced by the tram at all.

 

What the city really needs is a MONORAIL!

 

Yes sir!

 

there's nothing on earth

Like a genuine,

Bona fide,

Electrified,

Six-car

Monorail!

[Beverley]

Make that 2 in favour of trams

 

you's are all a bunch of selfish buggers! as long as you have your wee dirty car each and your same out little route from home to work, home to work stays clear your happy.... you dont consider the damage your lifestyles making because its not currently tangible.

 

Im glad theres all this disruption...at least its made you lot think a bit.

 

As for the argument about '...oh but its just the one route its not enough' get real. If they had made more routes you'd be going ape about the disruption.

 

this project has added masses of time onto my day, and as it happens i regularly have a passenger or more in my car when head to/from work...

 

when i was singing i needed my car anyway as i had loads of kit to get from A- B

 

the only thing this has made me "think about" is the fact i really need to get someone to sort this car, or get another one

 

 

 

 

a FAR better idea than the trams would have been to sort out the suburban rail lines and invested in the rail link to the airport.

 

more benefit for the entire city than a 1 route tram which wil service 4 or 5% of the city at massive cost which WILL run over budget

[coppercrutch]

I'd rather pay for this than war in Iraq but that's another story.

 

Vanity Project - Is the what the French call the TGV? I can't really argue the cost/benefits of this particular one but the UK has a terrible attitude to capital investment in transport infrastructure.

 

I reckon the TGV reduced rail travelling times across that country by 50% plus on certain routes. (Can't be bothered actually checking though)

 

The trams in Edinburgh will make very little difference to people making journeys at present on buses.

 

Simple cost benefit analysis:

 

Cost = Loads

Benefit = Very little

 

Conclusion = Don't do it.

 

If anyone can give me a simple reasonable argument for the opposite I will be very impressed.

[davemclaren]

I reckon the TGV reduced rail travelling times across that country by 50% plus on certain routes. (Can't be bothered actually checking though)

 

The trams in Edinburgh will make very little difference to people making journeys at present on buses.

 

Simple cost benefit analysis:

 

Cost = Loads

Benefit = Very little

 

Conclusion = Don't do it.

 

If anyone can give me a simple reasonable argument for the opposite I will be very impressed.

 

Point to point it will be quicker than the buses.

[coppercrutch]

Point to point it will be quicker than the buses.

 

I am sure it will. And I am sure I will use it and think it is fine. But how much will it cut the journey times by ? And is this worth ?800 million or whatever ?

 

I seriously doubt it. Can you imagine what that money would do to create REAL quality bus routes/lanes in and around the city ? For that money we could probably create one of the best bus service's in the World. Instead we will have a nice flash tram that takes in one route around the city......

[John Findlay]

Personally I dont think Edinburgh needs a public transport system in the form of tram cars.

 

To only do the northern part of the city is foolish in the extreme.

 

Personally I think the money should have been spent on upgrading Haymarket station to the 21st century in the form of lifts and escalators so that all passengers could be catered for especially those wheelchair users. A roof put over the station too.

 

Then there should have been a rail link to the airport. To reject EARL was sheer stupidity.

 

 

 

John

[davemclaren]

I am sure it will. And I am sure I will use it and think it is fine. But how much will it cut the journey times by ? And is this worth ?800 million or whatever ?

 

I seriously doubt it. Can you imagine what that money would do to create REAL quality bus routes/lanes in and around the city ? For that money we could probably create one of the best bus service's in the World. Instead we will have a nice flash tram that takes in one route around the city......

 

I'm sure the benefit case is available on the web somewhere. Can you get back to me by Wednesday with your analysis?

[Stuart Lyon]

As good as the bus service in Edinburgh is supposed to be it still isn't brilliant. My experience is that they are usually late or infuriatingly early. There are noticeable gaps like a service through the meadows (there used to be one).

 

The roadworks - especially the non tram related ones are really annoying. Marchmont Crescent was resurfaced fairly recently now they are re-paving it, Whitehouse Loan was closed several times over the last 24 months and now they are re-surfacing it. Why couldn't this have been done the last time it was closed?

 

Trams are a vanity project. Ediinburgh streets are not wide enough and I am sure we will see an increase in the number of roads or part of roads that are closed to cars. The money would be better spent on re-opening the south suburban railway to passenger traffic.

 

David Begg has a lot to answer for in starting Edinburgh's anti car policy but then as a councillor he was able to take taxis everywhere at the taxpayers expense.

[Le Chat]

 

a FAR better idea than the trams would have been to sort out the suburban rail lines and invested in the rail link to the airport.

 

Now you're talking.

 

All this trams bollocks is is a punishment for voting against their crazy congestion charge plans.

 

Who voted for these tossers ?

[coppercrutch]

I'm sure the benefit case is available on the web somewhere. Can you get back to me by Wednesday with your analysis?

 

See post #28 for the cost benefit analysis. If you want to see pages and pages of nice glossy photos of flashy trams then feel free to surf the net.

 

The new Forth bridge is another vanity project. A tunnel would have been cheaper and had no closures from the wind. No brainer. But yes of course you can't SEE a tunnel can you. This country really is so inefficient it is embarrassing.

[Ribble]

Point to point it will be quicker than the buses.

 

That maybe but it will take me about 10 years to claw back the lost time from the roadworks !!!

 

As for the waverly line, it's projected to take 38-42 mins from gorebridge to waverley station, why would I pay approx ?3 when I can pay ?1 on the bus and only lose say 10 mins !! Neither the trams or the waverly line will prove a cost efficient transport solution for edinburgh/midlothian !!

[davemclaren]

That maybe but it will take me about 10 years to claw back the lost time from the roadworks !!!

 

As for the waverly line, it's projected to take 38-42 mins from gorebridge to waverley station, why would I pay approx ?3 when I can pay ?1 on the bus and only lose say 10 mins !! Neither the trams or the waverly line will prove a cost efficient transport solution for edinburgh/midlothian !!

 

The timings for the waverley line have not been set yet, nor the fares, but the anticipated times from Waverley were as follows,

 

Eskbank 20 minutes

Nitten 24 minutes

Gorebridge 30 minutes

[rudi must stay]

Not convinced by the tram at all.

 

What the city really needs is a MONORAIL!

 

nah that's more of a Shellbyville idea

[tynie1874]

Edinburghs as free as a full packet of crisps aka congested to feck

[70's Throwback]

Now you're talking.

 

All this trams bollocks is is a punishment for voting against their crazy congestion charge plans.

 

Who voted for these tossers ?

 

Who are you referring to? If SNP, they opposed the tram system.

[davemclaren]

The timings for the waverley line have not been set yet, nor the fares, but the anticipated times from Waverley were as follows,

 

Eskbank 20 minutes

Nitten 24 minutes

Gorebridge 30 minutes

 

Should have added that with these times, and assuming I'm not retired by the time it's hopefully re-built, I'll be using it.

[Captain Canada]

Can't see how they can justify the money being spent and the disruption. A tiny percentage of Edinburgers will get any benefit from this and the rest have to suffer. Do we really need trams and buses? just one more thing to try and avoid when you're out driving or crossing the road. Totally Rubbish And Money Squandered - woohoo TRAMS!

[maltese jambo]

this project has added masses of time onto my day, and as it happens i regularly have a passenger or more in my car when head to/from work...

 

when i was singing i needed my car anyway as i had loads of kit to get from A- B

 

the only thing this has made me "think about" is the fact i really need to get someone to sort this car, or get another one

 

 

 

 

a FAR better idea than the trams would have been to sort out the suburban rail lines and invested in the rail link to the airport.

 

more benefit for the entire city than a 1 route tram which wil service 4 or 5% of the city at massive cost which WILL run over budget

 

My heart bleeds for your plight.

 

Get real, the sub will never be reopened, and neither will Edinburgh Airport ever have a railway station, simply because the local council is inept, Glasgow is always put first by the Scottish Parliament, and because Lothian Buses is owned by the local council.

 

Get that crazy idea out of your head.

[The Wicker Man]

Most of Edinburgh roads are a joke at present, much of it is bad planning by the council - it's nearly impossible to get from Leith to the Gyle without hitting some form of roadworks.

[Cigaro]

Yes sir!

 

there's nothing on earth

Like a genuine,

Bona fide,

Electrified,

Six-car

Monorail!

 

I hear those things are awfully loud?

[Gershwin]

When exactly are these trams coming? Are they definitely getting rid of the 22? It's the best bus ever....Goes from my door to work and also to my bird's flat. And there's one every 5 minutes.

[CompleteIdiot]

When exactly are these trams coming? Are they definitely getting rid of the 22? It's the best bus ever....Goes from my door to work and also to my bird's flat. And there's one every 5 minutes.

 

The answer is that the 22 is definitely getting the heave ho in its current form. Lothian Buses may operate it as a vastly reduced service when trams come but that's about it.

[Tams bird]

Now South Clerk Street at the Southside is down to 1 lane both ways... Gas this time ,not trams. Only for 8 weeks though...

[Toggie88]

I hear those things are awfully loud?

 

It flies as softly as a cloud.

[Acey]

Is there a chance the track could bend?