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Is the development really the best thing at this current time?


Rawrrrrrrr

Should we be pushing ahead with the development at this time?  

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  1. 1. Should we be pushing ahead with the development at this time?



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Sadly I have to say no

 

2 years ago under burley Id have had no doubts but there is too much uncertainty now

 

Crowds are dwindling and relegation is a real possibility

 

With both of these their are financial consequences

 

I feel we need to resolve the above before we even consider spending a penny on a new stadium development or we put the club in serious risk

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Yes.

 

It's still within their power to rectify ALL the self-induced problems.

 

The most important thing right now - obviously - is a serious managerial appointment.

 

If we come out of January with stadium plans AND a new manager with autonomy, then just maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

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Crowds are dwindling because the results are poor and people doubt Romanovs commitment. The managerial situation, in terms of looking for one, and the stadium update will change the minds of doubters.

 

If there was no redevelopment plan there would be more doubters as each day passes.

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Is it really appropiate to submit plans just to stop the doubters

 

Surley it should be put on the backburner until things pick up

 

It would be an absolute disaster for this club if we forge ahead and dont suceed in getting european football and sucess again very soon

 

We as a club cannot survive on bottom 6 money and until things actually change as opposed to just a promise I just dont think we can justify substantial spend on something which may be totally unncessary

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Oh and I actually don't think crowds are dwindling as much as the doommongers reckon. It's a natural result of being low in the league. Our crowds are immense considering the league position.

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Oh and I actually don't think crowds are dwindling as much as the doommongers reckon. It's a natural result of being low in the league. Our crowds are immense considering the league position.

 

Not particularly

 

We always got about 12k +

 

If for our last 2 games you subtract the ST's included who didnt show your not far off that

 

Additionally Id say the general apathy as well as away crowds are the worst I have seen in my time Ive followed hearts - bearing in mind im relativly young

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Not particularly

We always got about 12k +

 

If for our last 2 games you subtract the ST's included who didnt show your not far off that

 

Additionally Id say the general apathy as well as away crowds are the worst I have seen in my time Ive followed hearts - bearing in mind im relativly young

 

Rubbish.

 

When Romanov took over, we were averaging around 9,000 a week.

 

For non-Old Firm and Hibs games, the highest we'd had before that was in 2003 when we had 14,000 for the opening game of the season, and before that was the last day of the last game of the 2002-2003 season.

 

We'd only had those plus 4 from the season before that (2001-2002) against Aberdeen twice, Livingston and Dundee.

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Sub4TiddlerMurray
Not particularly

 

We always got about 12k +

 

If for our last 2 games you subtract the ST's included who didnt show your not far off that

 

Additionally Id say the general apathy as well as away crowds are the worst I have seen in my time Ive followed hearts - bearing in mind im relativly young

 

chin up Banksyforengland :),

 

the crowds are not that bad, just the mood around the place, and, things can be turned around.

 

There have been a few very positive signs that things are very good indeed behind the scenes. I met the under 14's coach who was drooling over the young players on our books at every level. Also, John Murray turned down the OF to stay at Hearts. Now the application has actually gone in: that's a very big financial commitment just getting to this stage.

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Sadly I have to say no

 

2 years ago under burley Id have had no doubts but there is too much uncertainty now

 

Crowds are dwindling and relegation is a real possibility

 

With both of these their are financial consequences

 

I feel we need to resolve the above before we even consider spending a penny on a new stadium development or we put the club in serious risk

 

 

And how much risk will the club face when our creaking old stand fails to secure a safety certificate? That day is not far away ... stadium development is absolutely essential.

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The management of HMFC badly needed to show the whole of Scotland they mean business. The best way to do that is for this development to proceed ASAP. Without this there is no way we could ever trade back into the black. I would tolerate a few seasons of mundane results to see our infrastructure improved.

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jamboinglasgow

to me the stand is a long term plan for hearts, the problems on the field are short term, we can not jepordise the long term because of short term problems as that is just stupid. What happens when things improve short term, we will not have improved long term.

 

Both the stand and improving the team can happen at the same time as members of hearts can deal with different things.

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Likewise. I must admit I missed your constant pessimism. Unlike some on here though your points are always well made . I still think you should go back to your original usermane if the administrators will let you.

 

Hahahaha!!!

 

Prancer - you're the only one still to have voted no.

 

Welcome back by the way. :P

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Arthur Morgan

Have to say no because i would rather see us do well for about 2 years the buld a new stand because if we have a **** team what's the point

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It's it a good thing no matter what the situation if romanov is willing to build the new stand then he will want a full stadium. That really goes without saying and everyone know's how you can fill a football stadium.

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givememychoice

without looking, who was the hearts manager in 1914?

 

Thats when the current main stand was opened. Very few could tell you without looking. Yet the OP is suggesting that a new manager is more crucial. That stand has seen many many managers (more than 20)

 

Given that the OP also says its the worst crowds he has seen, he must have only started watching in 2005, as the 2004-5 season had AVERAGE gates of 12272.

 

Vlad is undoubtedly looking long term. Is this necessarily the best way for everything? No.

 

Maybe Vlads biggest failing is announcing that things would be done so quickly.

 

Just think of the finances of it all.

 

?50ish million. Zoiks, its a lot. But remember, we are building flats, offices, a hotel. All these will bring in revenue (either a lot sort term is sold to third parties, or some long term if rented out). Could genuinely be looking at in the region of a ?20m write off. That means its 30 million we are out of pocket.

average ticket price? say ?25 (they arent going to be cheap seats) (and add a profit of ?5 from food, programme, merch sales). 1 million seats worth.

 

Now, if we get on average an extra 2000 people in (i reckon cat a games would sell out) on average, in 500 games, or 20 yearsish, it will be paid for. So, if the stand lasts more than 20 years, it will have paid for itself. All this is VERY simple quick maths and ignores interest on debt, the fact that there will be much increased corporate hospitality etc etc.

 

Its just being used to show that underneath it all lies a sound business plan.

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without looking, who was the hearts manager in 1914?

 

Thats when the current main stand was opened. Very few could tell you without looking. Yet the OP is suggesting that a new manager is more crucial. That stand has seen many many managers (more than 20)

Given that the OP also says its the worst crowds he has seen, he must have only started watching in 2005, as the 2004-5 season had AVERAGE gates of 12272.

 

Vlad is undoubtedly looking long term. Is this necessarily the best way for everything? No.

 

Maybe Vlads biggest failing is announcing that things would be done so quickly.

 

Just think of the finances of it all.

 

?50ish million. Zoiks, its a lot. But remember, we are building flats, offices, a hotel. All these will bring in revenue (either a lot sort term is sold to third parties, or some long term if rented out). Could genuinely be looking at in the region of a ?20m write off. That means its 30 million we are out of pocket.

average ticket price? say ?25 (they arent going to be cheap seats) (and add a profit of ?5 from food, programme, merch sales). 1 million seats worth.

 

Now, if we get on average an extra 2000 people in (i reckon cat a games would sell out) on average, in 500 games, or 20 yearsish, it will be paid for. So, if the stand lasts more than 20 years, it will have paid for itself. All this is VERY simple quick maths and ignores interest on debt, the fact that there will be much increased corporate hospitality etc etc.

 

Its just being used to show that underneath it all lies a sound business plan.

 

 

And that's including the old firm and vermin games!

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letsmakesomenoise

It will convince us all (including me) that Vlad is serious and here for the long term!

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Francis Albert
without looking, who was the hearts manager in 1914?

 

 

It was John McCartney, the famous manager of the McCraes Batallion side.

Indeed that probably wasn't the greatest timing for building a new stand either, but I don't think many regret that it was built.

 

Anyway, why on earth should redeveloping the main stand and appointing a manager be in conflict - quite complementary I'd have thought, in that the first makes the second even more necessary.

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Shotgun-Boogie

Without an increased stadia, then we cannot think about Hearts growing to be a bigger club that we hope it to be. I'm all for it. This is not just a case of "if you build it, they will come". For HMFC's directors to be complying with their legal duties they would have had to make proper enquiries / due dilligence that this stadia would in the best interests of HMFC. i.e. detailed financial modelling and independent reports would have had to have been compiled to help Vlad and his cronies determine what "is right" for Hearts and details what type of economic return was feasiable.

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I'm up for it.

 

If we are to compete long term, we need the appropriate facilities. The alternative is to relocate and everytime that is muted, the bulk of fans are up in arms.

 

Can't have it all ways so bring that big boy on.

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Sadly I have to say no

 

2 years ago under burley Id have had no doubts but there is too much uncertainty now

 

Crowds are dwindling and relegation is a real possibility

 

With both of these their are financial consequences

 

I feel we need to resolve the above before we even consider spending a penny on a new stadium development or we put the club in serious risk

 

I would like to personally welcome a NEW Hearts supporter.

 

I assume you are new as otherwise you would have surely known that a redeveloped Tynecastle is the only way this club can even begin to move forward over the long term.

 

In answer to you question - a most defiante YES.

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The development of the Club should not be put on hold just because we are going through a bad patch. We need this new stand, not only to help us grow as a Club but also because the current main stand should have been closed down 2 years ago. It's still in use now but only because we somehow managed to get a Health and Safety certificate.

 

The new stand with the increased capacity and better corporate facilities should help bring in more revenue, which can only be a good thing for our aspirations. But I get the feeling some people want us to remain "small" and are happy to settle for 2 Scottish Cups every 50 years. I can understand that from supporters of other Clubs but I don't understand why our own supporters would think like that.

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Fine Scottish Wine

For me it is not the best thing right now as getting in a decent manager, backroom staff and players is clearly what should be higher on the agenda and judging by the start date of 2010/2011 i guess the stand is not really being put as the No1 priority by Hearts either.

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I think the stand and development will be a financial millstone for UBIG.

 

My hope is that they do not run out of money after knocking the main stand down. :dribble:

 

But if it is built then it is great news for Hearts.:)

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yes it is, it is a long term project and our main stand is past it's sell by date. It also shows the commitment that romanov is willing to make after so many people doubted him. Buuuhhhllliiieeevvv!!

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ToadKiller Dog

but the club is looking to solve the problems prancer for england seems hell bent on worring about they say (if you believe them or not)they are looking to appoint a manager with full control.Why cant that be done the same time a putting the plans in?.

yes there is a slim chance we could go down ,but i expect we will pick up enough points.

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what a pointless thread.

 

Should we be a bigger business and in the long term make more money >?

 

Eh, i think so yes.

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The way I see it is there are three main groups of people not wanting Tynecastle redeveloped just now..........

1. Young supporters who think this is the worst Hearts team ever and we're slipping slowly into oblivion so what's the point.(Check the Scottish Cup crowd versus Killie the year we won the cup. 12,831)

2. New glory hunting supporters who don't give a **** about anything else except the team on the park.

3. Doom & gloom merchants who would find somethng to moan about if it cost nothing to build.

 

If you fall into more than 1 of the above groups, then you're totally ******.

 

Only my opinion but Heart of Midlothian F.C. will be going strong long after all of us are dead & buried so lets try & think of the bigger picture.

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Yes.

 

It's still within their power to rectify ALL the self-induced problems.

 

The most important thing right now - obviously - is a serious managerial appointment.

 

If we come out of January with stadium plans AND a new manager with autonomy, then just maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Agreed. I honestly do not think the team will take that much to sort out, proper coaching, proper management, proper team selection. Et Voila!

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Hahahaha!!!

 

Prancer - you're the only one still to have voted no.

 

Welcome back by the way. :P

 

As a wee aside, I noted that BANNED members are allowed to rejoin, I thought that was pointless as the likes of Prancer are back anyway.

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The way I see it is there are three main groups of people not wanting Tynecastle redeveloped just now..........

1. Young supporters who think this is the worst Hearts team ever and we're slipping slowly into oblivion so what's the point.(Check the Scottish Cup crowd versus Killie the year we won the cup. 12,831)

2. New glory hunting supporters who don't give a **** about anything else except the team on the park.

3. Doom & gloom merchants who would find somethng to moan about if it cost nothing to build.

 

If you fall into more than 1 of the above groups, then you're totally ******.

 

Only my opinion but Heart of Midlothian F.C. will be going strong long after all of us are dead & buried so lets try & think of the bigger picture.

 

There are a lot of questions about the financing of the development which still require to be answered.

 

I am not sure that those asking those questions fall into any of your 3 groups.

 

Were you unconcerned about the debts built up by the Pieman on the stadium and player wages?

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There are a lot of questions about the financing of the development which still require to be answered.

 

I am not sure that those asking those questions fall into any of your 3 groups.

 

Were you unconcerned about the debts built up by the Pieman on the stadium and player wages?

 

Thank you, I am in the category you have described.

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Yes, the redevelopment must go ahead or there is no way in the world we'd be able to put a quality team on the pitch and have enough revenue to reduce debts.

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i actually agree with the OP to an extent. I firmly believe that things should be sorted in terms of the team before worrying about expansion. No point expanding the stadium if we're not competing for europe every season.

 

still time to turn it around before the expansion actually gets underway though.

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You can throw money at a team and change things overnight. You cannot build a new stand etc overnight.

 

Is it the right time? Go and watch the film Field of Dreams.

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My opinion is that every year we put it off is another year that we sink further into the red which in turn means even longer before it can start to pay for itself. Even if we only get similar crowds (or lower) than we do now at the start, the revenue from the extra corporate facilities and any revenue we get from hotel etc will help to start make a dent in the overall debt.

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I think the stand and development will be a financial millstone for UBIG.

 

My hope is that they do not run out of money after knocking the main stand down. :dribble:

 

But if it is built then it is great news for Hearts.:)

 

This is my main concern to. It would be rather convenient for UBIG, if having demolished the new stand, they suddenly run out of money and are therefore forced to build housing on the land instead, with the convenient excuse that it could of course no longer be used as a football ground due to the lack of changing facilities etc!

 

However if they deliver, it will be fantastic for Hearts and the surrounding area.

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We need a new main stand but why the whole redevlopment plan. IMHO it is far too over ambitious for a club our size. The main stand at Easter Road looks fine to me and was put up in roughly 6 months and not at a cost of ?51million. I know our costs includes hotels etc...but do we really need one?

 

Rather have a half decent stand with the rest of the investment going into the team.

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We need a new main stand but why the whole redevlopment plan. IMHO it is far too over ambitious for a club our size. The main stand at Easter Road looks fine to me and was put up in roughly 6 months and not at a cost of ?51million. I know our costs includes hotels etc...but do we really need one?

 

Rather have a half decent stand with the rest of the investment going into the team.

 

The thing which matters is where the finance is coming from and where the debts revert to.

 

If Hearts are going to be gifted a new stadium by UBIG as charity - then that is great news for us (and UBIG take the risk on the rest of the development). If Hearts are to pay anything like their 'fair' share of this development - it will be a long time before there is extra revenue released to the team.

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Build for the future!

 

When things are at their lowest is the time to start building for the future!

 

The development is an essential part of the business plan to get the club on an even keel financially!!

 

Et al!!!

 

 

 

..............

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Thunderstruck

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Personally, delighted to see this going ahead. Football nowadays requires much more income than can be achieved through gate receipts. This shows vision and enterprise and can only be to benefit of HMFC in long run.

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People love ambition, people love to be associated with success. it's human nature.

 

If some people are still doubting the owners intentions after this expensive and time consuming planning application then go take up bowls FFS!

 

If, and only If it goes spectacularly tit's up, then you will have the privilege of stating "I was ******g there"

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The main stand needs replaced, be it smaller, same size or bigger simply to make it fit for purpose. That said, why not do it properly now.

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