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Victorian

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Samuel Camazzola
44 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yep that is where I got / get all my data from, the SGU app.  Your point about being aware of the score sitting at the bottom of the 20 is a good one and that was what caught me out this time round.

 

We play winter golf so will keep putting in circa two general play scores weekly, weather permitting.  This way the guys I play with think we should end up with a summer and winter handicap because of the different conditions.  This will be th first full year on the new WHS though so guess time will tell.  

 

Thanks for your comments.

Under the World Handicap System, your handicap committee have the capability of applying adjustments to the course rating to accommodate playing conditions. You'd need to speak to them to gauge how this can be applicable for general play rounds. 

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1 hour ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Under the World Handicap System, your handicap committee have the capability of applying adjustments to the course rating to accommodate playing conditions. You'd need to speak to them to gauge how this can be applicable for general play rounds. 

 

I think there has to be at least 8 GP scores in on that day, the system should figure out PCC automatically based on those 8 scores.

 

Also, if your course is playing from winter tees or to winter greens, you can't (or certainly shouldn't) be putting GP scores in. The only acceptable scores towards handicap are those played on a course with an approved slope and course rating. Once the course is altered for the winter, the SR/CR becomes null and void.

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joondalupjambo
2 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I think there has to be at least 8 GP scores in on that day, the system should figure out PCC automatically based on those 8 scores.

 

Also, if your course is playing from winter tees or to winter greens, you can't (or certainly shouldn't) be putting GP scores in. The only acceptable scores towards handicap are those played on a course with an approved slope and course rating. Once the course is altered for the winter, the SR/CR becomes null and void.

We play an annual winter eclectic and last year for this club event WHS rules applied. Winter league matches also allowed GP scores to be submitted.  It meant we introduced WHS on 1/11/20 and at the time I could not find any other Fife club doing this.  I understand we are doing it again this winter.  Match committee view is that the new system is the way ahead over a year period, dipping in and out is not on their radar it would seem.

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Samuel Camazzola
3 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I think there has to be at least 8 GP scores in on that day, the system should figure out PCC automatically based on those 8 scores.

 

Also, if your course is playing from winter tees or to winter greens, you can't (or certainly shouldn't) be putting GP scores in. The only acceptable scores towards handicap are those played on a course with an approved slope and course rating. Once the course is altered for the winter, the SR/CR becomes null and void.

I was under the impression Lundin would still be playing the regular course but manual adjustments would be down to weather conditions. 👍 

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1 hour ago, joondalupjambo said:

We play an annual winter eclectic and last year for this club event WHS rules applied. Winter league matches also allowed GP scores to be submitted.  It meant we introduced WHS on 1/11/20 and at the time I could not find any other Fife club doing this.  I understand we are doing it again this winter.  Match committee view is that the new system is the way ahead over a year period, dipping in and out is not on their radar it would seem.

 

Not that I've ever seen Lundin use winter tees but if you were to use winter greens one day, those scores should not be counting scores.

 

We have a winter long competition, but we'll be introducing winter tees shortly so we won't be able to play for handicap all winter.

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joondalupjambo
1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Not that I've ever seen Lundin use winter tees but if you were to use winter greens one day, those scores should not be counting scores.

 

We have a winter long competition, but we'll be introducing winter tees shortly so we won't be able to play for handicap all winter.

We do use a slightly shorter course in winter.  The winter electric as I call it uses tees that are more or less where the yellow summers are.  I say more or less because in the summer what we have been doing is have yellow and whites on a number of the holes in the exact same place, side by side.  So in the winter the yellows are all in front of the whites.  Winter league I think play off whites which are a bit further back.

 

Then, wait for it we have greens which are forward of the yellows in both winter and summer and we have folk playing off those in competitions and so they score towards a WHS.  This of course means we have competitions where people, not often though are playing off different tees and everyone is competing for the same prize. There is an adjustment involved I think. Baffling, sure is but the new system allows it apparently. 

 

Of course if we are on winter greens there is no counting for WHS.  

 

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joondalupjambo
1 hour ago, Victorian said:

**** that.  GP scores in the cold,  wind,  rain,  sclaffy ground cons,  iced hardened bunkers,  etc.  Nah.

I agree it is ok for getting some exercise but counting comps is weird.  Match seem to think it is the spirit of the WHS though, mad.  I would love to know how many courses in Fife, or any region actually see it the same way as our club does.  Anyone else's  club do winter counting scores, GP or comp?

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31 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

We do use a slightly shorter course in winter.  The winter electric as I call it uses tees that are more or less where the yellow summers are.  I say more or less because in the summer what we have been doing is have yellow and whites on a number of the holes in the exact same place, side by side.  So in the winter the yellows are all in front of the whites.  Winter league I think play off whites which are a bit further back.

 

Then, wait for it we have greens which are forward of the yellows in both winter and summer and we have folk playing off those in competitions and so they score towards a WHS.  This of course means we have competitions where people, not often though are playing off different tees and everyone is competing for the same prize. There is an adjustment involved I think. Baffling, sure is but the new system allows it apparently. 

 

Of course if we are on winter greens there is no counting for WHS.  

 

 

I think the official ruling is that you can't shorten your course by more than 100 yards for it to abide by slope ratings. So the chances are Lundin will be fine in that regard.

 

I do think WHS in the winter could be a source of abuse for some, i.e. putting in general play scores at courses where the course is drastically changed by winter tees and greens. Although I guess it's more of a concern if folk were cheating to go up, folk cheating to get cut...go for it, only going to harm themselves :lol:

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joondalupjambo
On 05/10/2021 at 16:25, Bigsmak said:

You don't have to work it out.. The system does it for you... 

 

Yep it does but would you not want to understand the system?  Maybe it's an age thing?  Being old and having too much time on my hands lends me to want to see how the figures are arrived at😀😀😀😀

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joondalupjambo
37 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I think the official ruling is that you can't shorten your course by more than 100 yards for it to abide by slope ratings. So the chances are Lundin will be fine in that regard.

 

I do think WHS in the winter could be a source of abuse for some, i.e. putting in general play scores at courses where the course is drastically changed by winter tees and greens. Although I guess it's more of a concern if folk were cheating to go up, folk cheating to get cut...go for it, only going to harm themselves :lol:

Thanks for the clarification on the yardage issue, good point to note.

 

Putting in a couple of GP n/r's or higher than normal scores and immediately going up one shot prior to playing in a first round tie in a club match comp, now that would need looking at😀😀

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Samuel Camazzola
3 hours ago, Victorian said:

**** that.  GP scores in the cold,  wind,  rain,  sclaffy ground cons,  iced hardened bunkers,  etc.  Nah.

Sclaffy ground on parkland bogs, I agree. Fairways on links are generally pristine from my experience! 👌🏼

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25 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Sclaffy ground on parkland bogs, I agree. Fairways on links are generally pristine from my experience! 👌🏼

 

Indeed.  Parkland / heathland golf is barely even golf in the shite conditions.  I used to play every week throughout the winter,  if 'playable',  but you couldn't pay me to trudge round now.  

 

Links golf is very different.  I should make an effort to play a few games to keep the eye in.

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Samuel Camazzola
22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Indeed.  Parkland / heathland golf is barely even golf in the shite conditions.  I used to play every week throughout the winter,  if 'playable',  but you couldn't pay me to trudge round now.  

 

Links golf is very different.  I should make an effort to play a few games to keep the eye in.

I'm surprised that the Links Trust in St Andrews opt for mats in the winter. It's the only links I've experienced that have taken this decision. Although I have heard through the grapevine that Kilspindie take this course of action too... :peepwall:

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37 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

I'm surprised that the Links Trust in St Andrews opt for mats in the winter. It's the only links I've experienced that have taken this decision. Although I have heard through the grapevine that Kilspindie take this course of action too... :peepwall:

 

Lundin, Leven. Carnoustie, Arbroath, Monifieth & Montrose use mats.

Edited by hmfc_liam06
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16 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Lundin, Leven. Carnoustie, Arbroath, Monifieth & Montrose use mats.

Deliberated on winter membership last year at Aberdour, but they most likely were going to use mats.

Entered the Winter series at Fairmont. Only got 2 rounds because of covid. Needed welly boots on one of them.:lol:

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43 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Deliberated on winter membership last year at Aberdour, but they most likely were going to use mats.

Entered the Winter series at Fairmont. Only got 2 rounds because of covid. Needed welly boots on one of them.:lol:

 

Yeah Aberdour are 100% mats, I used to be a member there. Fairmont is always soaking in the winter, played it last December and you were walking through mud from tee to fairway, brutal :lol: 

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1 hour ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

I'm surprised that the Links Trust in St Andrews opt for mats in the winter. It's the only links I've experienced that have taken this decision. Although I have heard through the grapevine that Kilspindie take this course of action too... :peepwall:

😂😂😂

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Samuel Camazzola
1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Lundin, Leven. Carnoustie, Arbroath, Monifieth & Montrose use mats.

I played Lundin in December and it was off the turf. If it was meant to be from mats, I was oblivious to it. 😄

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1 minute ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

I played Lundin in December and it was off the turf. If it was meant to be from mats, I was oblivious to it. 😄

 

I think it comes into play each Jan.

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17 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Yeah Aberdour are 100% mats, I used to be a member there. Fairmont is always soaking in the winter, played it last December and you were walking through mud from tee to fairway, brutal :lol: 

I know its a bit of a trek Liam, but Gullane do their winter "kiwi comp" think its about 6-8 rounds over the winter, and I think the Glen do an Monthly open stableford (Thursdays I think).

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Just now, merrymac said:

I know its a bit of a trek Liam, but Gullane do their winter "kiwi comp" think its about 6-8 rounds over the winter, and I think the Glen do an Monthly open stableford (Thursdays I think).

 

Will check them out, cheers.

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2 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Will check them out, cheers.

👍 The Gullane one is on Facebook not the website

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I thought Gullane were stopping that Kiwi..

 

Too many ruffians and their like turning up, drinking on the course and what not! 

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1 hour ago, Armageddon said:

https://www.niddrycastlegolfclub.co.uk/open-competitions

 

A wee Open at Niddry Castle on the 30th October - superb voucher prizes up for grabs!  Online sign up in the link above.

 

Might play that.

 

Looked like weekend of 2/3 October was a good one for Grant Wilson. Noticed he won the open on the 2nd. He come 2nd at our par 3 open on the 3rd and scooped £140.

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Samuel Camazzola

Anyone know of Edinburgh Western Golf Club (associated with the Braids)? It seems to be that from various unlinked sources, there has been something circulating about a couple of players doing the Open circuit with VERY suspect handicaps. Looks like prizes with scores associated with old 'Cat 1' handicaps are being scooped and not the 19/20 numbers they have been carrying around. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Anyone know of Edinburgh Western Golf Club (associated with the Braids)? It seems to be that from various unlinked sources, there has been something circulating about a couple of players doing the Open circuit with VERY suspect handicaps. Looks like prizes with scores associated with old 'Cat 1' handicaps are being scooped and not the 19/20 numbers they have been carrying around. 

 

 

Edinburgh Western is definitely based at the Braids. Used to know a couple of members but not heard anything related recently.Not surprised to be honest, been an issue in Texas Scrambles for a number of years with prizes being won all over by the same groups. It is so easy to do if you are that way inclined, as there is no communication between clubs and obviously no central record in these kind of competitions. 

Happened to me years back. Was playing in one of these national comps finals that were all the rage at the time.(prize was a trip to USA) Played with two guys off 12/14 who were seriously hitting it like pros'. Raised a question mark with the organisers and they contacted their club, who had never heard of them. They had proper looking handicap certificates and everything.

So much trust involved in our game and unfortunately there will always be unscrupulous types looking to make a few quid.

WE had a member who never won a comp when there was a draw and every time he played with his mates he won!!

We had to make all comps drawn to sort it out, funnily enough he left shortly after.

Cheating in our game (in whatever form) is a lot more prevalent , than probably most folk think.

 

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Samuel Camazzola
6 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Edinburgh Western is definitely based at the Braids. Used to know a couple of members but not heard anything related recently.Not surprised to be honest, been an issue in Texas Scrambles for a number of years with prizes being won all over by the same groups. It is so easy to do if you are that way inclined, as there is no communication between clubs and obviously no central record in these kind of competitions. 

Happened to me years back. Was playing in one of these national comps finals that were all the rage at the time.(prize was a trip to USA) Played with two guys off 12/14 who were seriously hitting it like pros'. Raised a question mark with the organisers and they contacted their club, who had never heard of them. They had proper looking handicap certificates and everything.

So much trust involved in our game and unfortunately there will always be unscrupulous types looking to make a few quid.

WE had a member who never won a comp when there was a draw and every time he played with his mates he won!!

We had to make all comps drawn to sort it out, funnily enough he left shortly after.

Cheating in our game (in whatever form) is a lot more prevalent , than probably most folk think.

 

The one thing I don't agree with regarding the WHS is the non requirement to have returns within a season to prevent a handicap lapsing. The system could still be manipulated for guys only looking to enter scrambles etc but at least it provides a current contribution to the 20.

 

One of the examples of the two guys that has been doing the rounds is they played a better ball open with a gross - 1. With their 19 handicap, it equated ro - 20! 😂 🤣 

 

To put it into context, two guys with a +1 handicap shot gross - 8 for a net - 7. That's believable for guys of that ability. Two hackers with a 19 would be looking at low 80s at best. 

 

Their pattern of scoring has followed at another two places (at least). 

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One thing I'm always suspicious of is folk booking the very last available tee time at an open when there's plenty other times available, especially scrambles.

 

"Oh so it's nett 55 to beat, aye?"

 

🤔

Edited by hmfc_liam06
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3 hours ago, merrymac said:

Edinburgh Western is definitely based at the Braids. Used to know a couple of members but not heard anything related recently.Not surprised to be honest, been an issue in Texas Scrambles for a number of years with prizes being won all over by the same groups. It is so easy to do if you are that way inclined, as there is no communication between clubs and obviously no central record in these kind of competitions. 

Happened to me years back. Was playing in one of these national comps finals that were all the rage at the time.(prize was a trip to USA) Played with two guys off 12/14 who were seriously hitting it like pros'. Raised a question mark with the organisers and they contacted their club, who had never heard of them. They had proper looking handicap certificates and everything.

So much trust involved in our game and unfortunately there will always be unscrupulous types looking to make a few quid.

WE had a member who never won a comp when there was a draw and every time he played with his mates he won!!

We had to make all comps drawn to sort it out, funnily enough he left shortly after.

Cheating in our game (in whatever form) is a lot more prevalent , than probably most folk think.

 

 

To be honest I can see why that could happen.

 

I know I'm certainly a lot more relaxed playing with my mate during our midweek medals, and I tend to perform better in them. It also practically turns into match play at times between us, certainly if we are playing well and there's a wee bit of bouncing off each other.

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3 hours ago, merrymac said:

 

WE had a member who never won a comp when there was a draw and every time he played with his mates he won!!

We had to make all comps drawn to sort it out, funnily enough he left shortly after.

Cheating in our game (in whatever form) is a lot more prevalent , than probably most folk think.

 

Something I hate at my club.

PYOP, pick your own partner.

 

Creates cliques and against the whole meaning of a club to me.

How is a new member meant to play in that, or me Jimmy No Mates🥺

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joondalupjambo

The WHS system allows you to play a round and then enter your score afterwards if you want, i.e. without registering before you go out to play the casual counting round.  To me that is a real no no but it is happening.

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18 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

To be honest I can see why that could happen.

 

I know I'm certainly a lot more relaxed playing with my mate during our midweek medals, and I tend to perform better in them. It also practically turns into match play at times between us, certainly if we are playing well and there's a wee bit of bouncing off each other.

This guy is a low cat 1 player so you would suspect it should not affect him negatively.

I am sure you have an off day even with your mates. He never seemed to😨

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10 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

The WHS system allows you to play a round and then enter your score afterwards if you want, i.e. without registering before you go out to play the casual counting round.  To me that is a real no no but it is happening.

I understood that you couldn't do that, because you have to be at the location to enter the scores, and if you delay afterwards there is a 0.5 (i think) addition to your handicap.

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joondalupjambo
25 minutes ago, merrymac said:

I understood that you couldn't do that, because you have to be at the location to enter the scores, and if you delay afterwards there is a 0.5 (i think) addition to your handicap.

Nope trust me you can do it.  I have stood beside players who have done it.  After they have played they have simply logged onto the system in the clubhouse, set up that they will play a casual round, then logged out, logged back in and entered their scores.  No delay there really.  Others who have no smart phone have played, gone home and logged into How Did I Do via their laptop and followed the same process. 

 

All have said as long as this is done within the same day it is ok.  They are seeing what they have scored and making a decision based on that before entering the score or not. For me that is just plain wrong.  

Edited by joondalupjambo
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10 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Nope trust me you can do it.  I have stood beside players who have done it.  After they have played they have simply logged onto the system in the clubhouse, set up that they will play a casual round, then logged out, logged back in and entered their scores.  No delay there really.  Others who have no smart phone have played, gone home and logged into How Did I Do via their laptop and followed the same process. 

 

All have said as long as this is done within the same day it is ok.  They are seeing what they have scored and making a decision based on that before entering the score or not. For me that is just plain wrong.  

That makes the system totally pointless then

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joondalupjambo
1 minute ago, merrymac said:

That makes the system totally pointless then

Yep indeed it does.  I was always going to contact the R&A and ask about this but never got round to it.  I wonder if they really know this happens?  Surely they must?

 

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16 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yep indeed it does.  I was always going to contact the R&A and ask about this but never got round to it.  I wonder if they really know this happens?  Surely they must?

 

I would contact Scottish golf via the app. There is a feedback option under the "more" tab at the bottom of the home screen. Be interesting to hear there response, it might explain a few players at my club who seem to have improved massively this season??, with no obvious improvement in medals.

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Samuel Camazzola
51 minutes ago, merrymac said:

I understood that you couldn't do that, because you have to be at the location to enter the scores, and if you delay afterwards there is a 0.5 (i think) addition to your handicap.

When I've played away rounds, I use the Scottish Golf app which requires your GPS read to be within an allowable proximity to register. 

 

For BRS, I believe you can sign in anytime, anywhere on the day and only need to submit a score by 23:59 to avoid being given a penalty round. 

 

Unless there is a one system rollout (which I believe SG are pressing for), there will be varying approaches to score submissions. 

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3 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

When I've played away rounds, I use the Scottish Golf app which requires your GPS read to be within an allowable proximity to register. 

 

For BRS, I believe you can sign in anytime, anywhere on the day and only need to submit a score by 23:59 to avoid being given a penalty round. 

 

Unless there is a one system rollout (which I believe SG are pressing for), there will be varying approaches to score submissions. 

I only have experience of using the App which would explain it

Cheers

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You can 100% submit a score at your home club at any time if they use Howdidido.

 

I'm on the train home from Edinburgh right now and could easily stick a GP score in via the app.

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Samuel Camazzola
12 hours ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

When I've played away rounds, I use the Scottish Golf app which requires your GPS read to be within an allowable proximity to register. 

 

For BRS, I believe you can sign in anytime, anywhere on the day and only need to submit a score by 23:59 to avoid being given a penalty round. 

 

Unless there is a one system rollout (which I believe SG are pressing for), there will be varying approaches to score submissions. 

This was meant to state HDID and not BRS. 👍 

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Got my official handicap after a 25 year break from the game.

 

12.

 

Was 6 way back then so OK with that. Games actually really good considering the gap in playing. Can’t believe how far the ball goes!!! I’m hitting it 280-290 yards where as I was 240-250.

 

Equipment really has moved on!

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Got my official handicap after a 25 year break from the game.

 

12.

 

Was 6 way back then so OK with that. Games actually really good considering the gap in playing. Can’t believe how far the ball goes!!! I’m hitting it 280-290 yards where as I was 240-250.

 

Equipment really has moved on!

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Samuel Camazzola

Played the Torrance today and the condition was immense. Tees and greens were superb and fairways were pretty firm despite the amount of rain we've had. Still seems to be retaining the conditioning from when the European Tour visted. 

 

Unfortunately autumn maintenance on the greens kicks off on Tuesday for three days though so there will be a bit of disturbance. 

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On 09/10/2021 at 21:25, Samuel Camazzola said:

Played the Torrance today and the condition was immense. Tees and greens were superb and fairways were pretty firm despite the amount of rain we've had. Still seems to be retaining the conditioning from when the European Tour visted. 

 

Unfortunately autumn maintenance on the greens kicks off on Tuesday for three days though so there will be a bit of disturbance. 

 

They're meant to be ripping up those courses and replacing with a championship that runs more coastal - that might be false and just Chinese/Hong Kong whispers.

 

We were up there for a week, the weather was horrendous but the course playing very well - 4 rounds in 4 days = broken.

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Samuel Camazzola
4 hours ago, Armageddon said:

 

They're meant to be ripping up those courses and replacing with a championship that runs more coastal - that might be false and just Chinese/Hong Kong whispers.

 

We were up there for a week, the weather was horrendous but the course playing very well - 4 rounds in 4 days = broken.

I've heard of a handful of rumours ranging from the Kittocks closing, to the two courses being replanned into a new layout for the two, to a nine hole par 3 course being added into the extra land they have. I know the new owners are big on the golf scene so will wait and see what plans (if anything major) comes out. 

 

I played the Castle Course today and it was in good condition. From what was reported in the summer, I was prepared to be disappointed but it was far from it. 

 

Apart from playing the worst standard of golf in a long long time, I still enjoyed it. The wind was absolutely brutal and it was possibly blowing the hardest I've had to play in for many a year. Club selection was becoming pure guess work with having to go up around four clubs into the wind and carrying 9 irons 175 yards down wind. 

 

My handicap allowance was swallowed up after 4 holes! 😂 

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Haven't played in a couple weeks and tbh I've lost the bug a bit. 

 

Got down to 8, then game fell to bits and can barely hit 16 never mind 8. Zero confidence and no desire to go out for a round.

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10 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Haven't played in a couple weeks and tbh I've lost the bug a bit. 

 

Got down to 8, then game fell to bits and can barely hit 16 never mind 8. Zero confidence and no desire to go out for a round.

Sympathy's mate its murder when that happens.

If you have a driving range nearby try to go there a couple of times a week, and concentrate solely on striking, until you feel you have your confidence back. Avoid playing during that period.

It works for me, and gets you away from the end result, and focus on making a good swing.

Hope it helps.  

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