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Bye Bye Forth & Tay Tolls


CompleteIdiot

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How many years is it until the cost of actually removing them and maintaining from other budgets will actually break even?

 

200 years?

 

Complete waste of money removing tolls and no one will be better off as the money will just come from elsewere as opposed to the consumers of what is a luxury item

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How many years is it until the cost of actually removing them and maintaining from other budgets will actually break even?

 

200 years?

 

Complete waste of money removing tolls and no one will be better off as the money will just come from elsewere as opposed to the consumers of what is a luxury item

 

I take it you don't travel from Edinburgh to work in fife then.

 

Do you drive? Would you be happy if a section of road you had to use to get to work had a toll on it?

 

After you'd already paid your road tax that is.

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How many years is it until the cost of actually removing them and maintaining from other budgets will actually break even?

 

200 years?

 

Complete waste of money removing tolls and no one will be better off as the money will just come from elsewere as opposed to the consumers of what is a luxury item

 

Why not toll all bridges? You probably cross several getting into Edinburgh. Not clear why this bridge is a luxury as opposed to others that were not tolled. :confused:

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Dunk-Section G

Good populist move by the SNP.

 

It seems so annoying and wasteful when you consider that they new booths were put in just over a year ago at a cost of a few million to the tax payer.

 

I still agree though, it is part of the road network.

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Good populist move by the SNP.

 

It seems so annoying and wasteful when you consider that they new booths were put in just over a year ago at a cost of a few million to the tax payer.

 

I still agree though, it is part of the road network.

 

Yup, IIRC, about ?4m to put them in and about ?2m to remove them.

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Well if as looks likely and a second bridge crossing is built. Then believe me it will be like the second bridge across the Severn. Where it costs ?5 to take a car over.

 

 

 

John

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Some people are just easily impressed.

 

This bridge will not look after itself. The new bridge will not get built itself. It will cost money that has to come from somewhere. We will all end up paying for it in some other way. Give to one hand, take from the other, what is the point.

 

I cannot think of a fairer option:

 

You use this bridge = you pay for it.

You don't use this bridge = You don't pay for it.(Directly)

 

About as fair as you can get. Of course as some have pointed out this is part of the road network like many other bridges. But this bridge cost a fortune to build. It costs a fortune to maintain, and it will cost a fortune to replace. You cannot compare this section of road to any others in the region in terms of cost. So, IMO, you can't simply say it should be treated the same. It is not the same.

 

The fairest option is for the people who use this facility to pay for some of its maintenance costs directly.

 

PS. This has nothing to dow with the SNP, if any other government had come up with this I would have said the same thing. :)

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Nelly Terraces

Goodbye bridge tolls... Hello higher taxes!!

 

Another cynical piece of political manouvering by the SNP here.

 

Enter power with array of high profile Santa style giveaways, i.e. this farce and student fees, which you know are neither affordable or sustainable long term. Budget time comes round and what do you know, the cash from Westminster doesn't add up. Queue cries of 'Look, the English are stitching us up again, how nasty they are!' to instill rage in gullible natives and hence try to attach credance to your (to this point continually rebutted by the voters) separatist/independence nationalist dogma.

 

I hate politicians,a nd can hardly be bothered voting for the creeps these days, but you've got to hand it to the scottish nazi Salmon, he is top dog at this sort of thing.

 

Enjoy travelling over the bridge, as in about 15 years you won't be able to, as it's falling to pieces. I'd have thought a small fee to travel over the thing was the perfect way to fund research and work into preventing that happening. Suppose everybody wants everything for free these days though.

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I'm more than a little concerned at how exactly the bridge will get maintained now. As it is it needs more maintenance every year this will escalate every year. The likely scenario will be that a new one will be built that is a toll bridge at a higher toll than the current one but offers a quicker crossing. Meanwhile the weight limit on the free bridge will be dropped so it will be vehicles below 3 tons only.

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Some people are just easily impressed.

 

This bridge will not look after itself. The new bridge will not get built itself. It will cost money that has to come from somewhere. We will all end up paying for it in some other way. Give to one hand, take from the other, what is the point.

 

I cannot think of a fairer option:

 

You use this bridge = you pay for it.

You don't use this bridge = You don't pay for it.(Directly)

 

About as fair as you can get. Of course as some have pointed out this is part of the road network like many other bridges. But this bridge cost a fortune to build. It costs a fortune to maintain, and it will cost a fortune to replace. You cannot compare this section of road to any others in the region in terms of cost. So, IMO, you can't simply say it should be treated the same. It is not the same.

 

The fairest option is for the people who use this facility to pay for some of its maintenance costs directly.

 

PS. This has nothing to dow with the SNP, if any other government had come up with this I would have said the same thing. :)

 

 

I see what your saying and it's a fair point but why stop at this bridge.

 

But could be argued that user's of a specific part of the road network should be made to contribute to it's upkeep throughout the UK. e.g. The Highways Agency is proposing to widen 63 miles of M25 from six lanes to eight lanes, from junctions 5-7 and 16-30 at a cost of over ?5 billion.

 

Who's paying for that? Is there tolls for that part of the M25?

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Nelly Terraces
I'm more than a little concerned at how exactly the bridge will get maintained now. As it is it needs more maintenance every year this will escalate every year. The likely scenario will be that a new one will be built that is a toll bridge at a higher toll than the current one but offers a quicker crossing. Meanwhile the weight limit on the free bridge will be dropped so it will be vehicles below 3 tons only.

 

Taz, actually, the way things are going and the concerns I've heard raised from engineers is that, that 3te level may have to be dropped to around half that level (effectively banning any lorry traffic from the bridge), and that 'rationing' of the amount of cars allowed on the bridge at any one time, may have to be brought in sooner than was initially envisaged. Scary stuff.

 

Still, at least it will be 'free'.:rolleyes:

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I crossed the bridge for free this morning.

When the bridge was built the tolls were to cover the capital cost of building it. These costs were covered many years ago and the tolls should have stopped then. It?s part of the road network and we already pay enough in road and fuel taxes.

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The SNP delivers. I wonder if the doom mongers will be right? It will make working in Fife a lot more attractive for people living in Edinburgh. I am not sure if the reverse is true.

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Congestion-alert-as-bridge-tolls.3763142.jp

 

 

How exactly do you come to this opinion? In a typical 5 day working week, they will only save ?5, ?20-?25 a month. Hardly a sum to get worked up about.

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Think of the congestion that will be eased now also, and the positive environmental impact that will have.

 

The bridge is part of the road network which is paid for several times over by all the various motoring taxes.

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SNP Strategy.

 

1. Numerous populist, but idealogically bankrupt, moves to placate the largely ignorant general public (abolition of tolls; free prescriptions).

2. Emphasise the positive differences between England and Scotland, thus fostering increasing resentment amongst English people governed by a Scottish PM.

3.Wait for David Cameron to be elected PM

4. Pray they haven't fecked things up in the meantime

5. Independence referendum

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SNP Strategy.

 

1. Numerous populist, but idealogically bankrupt, moves to placate the largely ignorant general public (abolition of tolls; free prescriptions).

2. Emphasise the positive differences between England and Scotland, thus fostering increasing resentment amongst English people governed by a Scottish PM.

3.Wait for David Cameron to be elected PM

4. Pray they haven't fecked things up in the meantime

5. Independence referendum

 

Could you explain why you feel removing unfair tolls on the road system is "idealogically bankrupt"?

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The tolls went to cover repairs, improvements and other such things, without them this will come from elsewere, this isnt a good move for anyone

 

As for traffic/environment, the miles of tailbacks upto and through newton would suggest otherwise as these cars now have to converge onto a dual carriageway

 

Its a focal point strategy which wont benefit anyone long term

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
The tolls went to cover repairs, improvements and other such things, without them this will come from elsewere, this isnt a good move for anyone

 

As for traffic/environment, the miles of tailbacks upto and through newton would suggest otherwise as these cars now have to converge onto a dual carriageway

 

Its a focal point strategy which wont benefit anyone long term

 

Isn't that why people pay tax? It's a stretch of road like any other.

 

One thing though - I'm sure somebody told me that they've just spent millions of pounds replacing all the tolls, and are now ripping the new ones out completely. Is that right?

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Nelly Terraces
SNP Strategy.

 

1. Numerous populist, but idealogically bankrupt, moves to placate the largely ignorant general public (abolition of tolls; free prescriptions).

2. Emphasise the positive differences between England and Scotland, thus fostering increasing resentment amongst English people governed by a Scottish PM.

3.Wait for David Cameron to be elected PM

4. Pray they haven't fecked things up in the meantime

5. Independence referendum

 

Pretty much sums it all up.

 

Sad fact is there's people stupid and gulible to fall for this confidence trick.

 

Can I just add:

 

6. Scotland breaks from rest of UK completley. Taxes rocket to pay for 'cuddly' policies outlined above. People get uppity and hacked off. People can do hee haw about it now that full independence has occured.

 

Hey, but at least Scotland will be 'free' from the 'tyranical' regime of a Westminster parliament:rolleyes:.

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CompleteIdiot
How exactly do you come to this opinion? In a typical 5 day working week, they will only save ?5, ?20-?25 a month. Hardly a sum to get worked up about.

 

?250 a year. That's a lot more than road tax costs.

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CompleteIdiot
Pretty much sums it all up.

 

Sad fact is there's people stupid and gulible to fall for this confidence trick.

 

Can I just add:

 

6. Scotland breaks from rest of UK completley. Taxes rocket to pay for 'cuddly' policies outlined above. People get uppity and hacked off. People can do hee haw about it now that full independence has occured.

 

Hey, but at least Scotland will be 'free' from the 'tyranical' regime of a Westminster parliament:rolleyes:.

 

Was it a 'confidence trick' when Labour cancelled the tolls on the Erskine bridge?

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CompleteIdiot
Isn't that why people pay tax? It's a stretch of road like any other.

 

One thing though - I'm sure somebody told me that they've just spent millions of pounds replacing all the tolls, and are now ripping the new ones out completely. Is that right?

 

The toll booths were changed recently. They are being removed (or have been already).

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I see what your saying and it's a fair point but why stop at this bridge.

 

But could be argued that user's of a specific part of the road network should be made to contribute to it's upkeep throughout the UK. e.g. The Highways Agency is proposing to widen 63 miles of M25 from six lanes to eight lanes, from junctions 5-7 and 16-30 at a cost of over ?5 billion.

 

Who's paying for that? Is there tolls for that part of the M25?

 

Very good point. But maybe there shoudl be tolls for that area. I am not really one for having road tolls in this country. At the same time though there are specific areas where keepign a road maintained costs a huge amount more than average (A bridge being the perfect example).

 

In these cases I can see it being fair that those who use it more often pay more for it. Because a large amount will still come from general taxation so everyone that works is paying somethign towards it.

 

Guess work here (so figures just in theory), but perhaps:

 

Live in Edinburgh dont use the bridge daily - You end up paying ?50 per year for it through tax.

 

Live in Edinburgh and use the bridge daily - You end up paying ?350 per year for it through tax and tolls.

 

I cant really understand how anyone can say the above is unfair in any way.

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The Old Tolbooth

Why not scrap the stupid trams idea and re direct the money toward another bridge to replace the existing one?

 

There would probably be change left too!

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?250 a year. That's a lot more than road tax costs.

 

It is still such a small sum that it will not encourage people to change jobs from Edinburgh to Fife, and vice versa.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
The toll booths were changed recently. They are being removed (or have been already).

 

That sounds like money well spent

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How many years is it until the cost of actually removing them and maintaining from other budgets will actually break even?

 

200 years?

 

Complete waste of money removing tolls and no one will be better off as the money will just come from elsewere as opposed to the consumers of what is a luxury item

 

You don't half talk some sh*te.

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Why not scrap the stupid trams idea and re direct the money toward another bridge to replace the existing one?

 

There would probably be change left too!

 

That involves common sense. So would not even be considered.

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Yup, IIRC, about ?4m to put them in and about ?2m to remove them.

 

 

I would have removed them for ?1m. Just give me a big sledgehammer

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Why not scrap the stupid trams idea and re direct the money toward another bridge to replace the existing one?

 

There would probably be change left too!

 

The SNP DID cancel the rail link to the airport very early on. That would have freed up a considerable sum on paper with which they could have pressed on with the tolls abolition. But there's no doubt: it'll have to be paid for.

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SNP delivers? :laugh:

 

What a load of bollocks. Scrapping the tolls is a laughable, they're meant to be encouraging less carbon emmitions, i.e. less travelling in Cars. So the fat dick scraps tolls and, to an extent, actually encourages travelling.

 

Naz ionalists :mw_rolleyes:

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I see what your saying and it's a fair point but why stop at this bridge.

 

But could be argued that user's of a specific part of the road network should be made to contribute to it's upkeep throughout the UK. e.g. The Highways Agency is proposing to widen 63 miles of M25 from six lanes to eight lanes, from junctions 5-7 and 16-30 at a cost of over ?5 billion.

 

Who's paying for that? Is there tolls for that part of the M25?

 

none there but you pay ?1 each way on the dartford crossing. thats only because its owned by a private french company though. the other routes over/under the thames are free.

 

it has to be said though, that ?5b isn't really all that much money considering the traffic that uses this road. the regional head office for the company i work for covers the south east of england (london, essex....) and reckon there are more than 14m people in their aread. who knows how many more in the west?

 

?5b well spent if you ask me, the m25 is hell in rush hour and in my experience lasts 3/4 hours

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