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Is this acceptable to sing?


kearney19

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Was scolling through some Hearts Rangers clips on youtube and came across this.

 

I thought Rangers fans cant sing this?

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Always get confused to what songs is correct and not correct to sing, so derry Walls is deemed acceptable?

 

It's not deemed sectarian, Just like the 'Sash'.

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HN1F, what we're trying to say is that, although it's not deemed 'Sectarian', it still shouldn't be allowed as it's nout to do with football. But it's not an 'offence' in any way..

 

Okay?

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Was scolling through some Hearts Rangers clips on youtube and came across this.

 

I thought Rangers fans cant sing this?

 

Depends what you mean by "acceptable". There are certain things that you or our club cannot censure you for, but are they acceptable to you as a person?

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Commander Harris

 

Was scolling through some Hearts Rangers clips on youtube and came across this.

 

I thought Rangers fans cant sing this?

 

"Derry's Walls" does not break any of the guidelines on "unreasonable conduct".

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This is why the SFA rules (right or wrong) are going to remain totally toothless.By refusing to consider intent and only considering a literal reading of the content they will never find anything sectarian. No fan is going to sing 'I hate catholics/ protestants, they are ****'. By this interpretation, even **** the pope/ queen couldn't be seen as sectarian as who is to say it is not a statement based on their political views.

 

I'd suggest that the intent of fans singing Derry's Walls and the Sash (insert also names of songs sung by some Celtic fans) is not to celebrate their heritage, but to assert their superiority over the other side (in this case with sides being defined by religion).

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HN1F, what we're trying to say is that, although it's not deemed 'Sectarian', it still shouldn't be allowed as it's nout to do with football. But it's not an 'offence' in any way..

 

Okay?

 

Nice1, thanks for clearing that up for me :)

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Commander Harris
This is why the SFA rules (right or wrong) are going to remain totally toothless.By refusing to consider intent and only considering a literal reading of the content they will never find anything sectarian. No fan is going to sing 'I hate catholics/ protestants, they are ****'. By this interpretation, even **** the pope/ queen couldn't be seen as sectarian as who is to say it is not a statement based on their political views.

 

I'd suggest that the intent of fans singing Derry's Walls and the Sash (insert also names of songs sung by some Celtic fans) is not to celebrate their heritage, but to assert their superiority over the other side (in this case with sides being defined by religion).

 

Celtic fans have a song rejoicing that "soon there will be no protestants anymore"

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Sorry, what I really meant was with the new rules, the fans would be stupid to sing such a song. (Of course with Old Firm fans this isn't out of the question). But they have such a range of songs that have the same intent that there is no need to sing the really blatant ones. I assume the song with the line "no protestants anymore" isn't on the SFA approved list?

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Commander Harris
Sorry, what I really meant was with the new rules, the fans would be stupid to sing such a song. (Of course with Old Firm fans this isn't out of the question). But they have such a range of songs that have the same intent that there is no need to sing the really blatant ones. I assume the song with the line "no protestants anymore" isn't on the SFA approved list?

 

I don't think there is any "approved list" just a set of guidelines saying that songs of a discriminatory nature are unacceptable. seems fair enough to me.

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Celtic fans have a song rejoicing that "soon there will be no protestants anymore"

 

It's just the craic so it is. :sad:

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Celtic fans have a song rejoicing that "soon there will be no protestants anymore"

 

They were singing 'go home ya huns' at Killie today. :mad:

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always a jambo

It is not deemed sectarian by the authorities but would you reckon Jambos singing King Billy's on the Wall unacceptable beause a few of the guys sitting in front of me were???

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nanananananana-angus
anyone who thinks the word 'hun' is a sectarian term for a protestant is a moron.

 

When referring to gers fans I use the term hun.But in smeltic fans case they use the term hun against us,rangers and now obviously killie aswell.

It begs the question what,apart from the fact we are all Scottish football clubs,do the three clubs they deem to be huns have in common? :confused:

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It is not deemed sectarian by the authorities but would you reckon Jambos singing King Billy's on the Wall unacceptable beause a few of the guys sitting in front of me were???

 

I don't mind it.

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Once again the usual tribe lump in with "no that's approved and all strictly above board"

 

In this case, with that song, i would ban it outright. My reason being that by association it is inexorably linked to Protestant fundamentalism, as paraded by the lodge and sash types which is not against the law but common sense should prevail and where dubiety exists then it should be banned against.

 

What is the fascination with certain posters on here defending the indefensible

 

What is it about Derry's Walls that need guarding anyway, why uphold the broken political constructs of the past?

 

Why are "swords and shields" required, would there a fight if someone turned up?

 

Grow up for goodness sake, you are grown men!

 

Thank God all Hearts fans are not this @rse cringingly embarrassing and out of step with the modern democratic Scotland

 

BEsides, we would look and sound total hypocrates if we made a habit of singing these songs

 

Do you not think that some of the catholic players, especially the foreigners are somewhat baffled by this...

 

For the record I am neither in favor of Celtic or Hibs fans givin it large with stupid songs of dubious meaning

 

You are all as bad as each other in my book

 

SUnday best on now chaps, Church of Scotland bibles at the ready, peace to all fellow Christians and all that eh!

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Once again the usual tribe lump in with "no that's approved and all strictly above board"

 

In this case, with that song, i would ban it outright. My reason being that by association it is inexorably linked to Protestant fundamentalism, as paraded by the lodge and sash types which is not against the law but common sense should prevail and where dubiety exists then it should be banned against.

 

What is the fascination with certain posters on here defending the indefensible

 

What is it about Derry's Walls that need guarding anyway, why uphold the broken political constructs of the past?

 

Why are "swords and shields" required, would there a fight if someone turned up?

 

Grow up for goodness sake, you are grown men!

 

Thank God all Hearts fans are not this @rse cringingly embarrassing and out of step with the modern democratic Scotland

 

BEsides, we would look and sound total hypocrates if we made a habit of singing these songs

 

Do you not think that some of the catholic players, especially the foreigners are somewhat baffled by this...

 

For the record I am neither in favor of Celtic or Hibs fans givin it large with stupid songs of dubious meaning

 

You are all as bad as each other in my book

 

SUnday best on now chaps, Church of Scotland bibles at the ready, peace to all fellow Christians and all that eh!

 

Settle down you sensationalist!

 

 

No one even defended them, they stated that the songs weren't against the rules set-out by the Scottish Fudbaw Association.

 

For the record, i don't see anything wrong with them, but then each to their own. It's all harmless BS at the end of the day.

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What absolute blox, if you don't mind me saying

 

Nowt 'sensationalist' in what i said

 

So, on one hand we absolutely slate every governing body that has anything to do with football for reasons that are plain and obvious, such as double standards when it comes to refereeing and match bans and euqality of punishment that all teams must follow yet you trump up 'blah blah SFA say its' not an offence'

 

We all know what idiots the SFA are!

 

Plus they cow tow the unruly mobs from the west cos they are them anyway

 

Why would anyone want to sing a jingoistic pile of poo like that anyway

 

The SFA are wrong as are those who sing it and do not condemn it for what it is

 

So there

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You are, without doubt, the biggest plonker on this board.

 

At no point did anyone condone the singing at all, and yet you're still bitching like a woman. Do us all a favour, mate. Definately a hint of the ol' bit Hibee in there.

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anyone who thinks the word 'hun' is a sectarian term for a protestant is a moron.
And very easily offended - completely agree.

 

I use the term all the time to describe Rangers fans - I don't have a sectarian bone in my body, and have never heard the term 'hun' be linked with any form of sectarianism - until the laughable outrage from the Huns last week from St Mirren fans. The whole of Scotland calls them it, are they suggesting we are all bigots?

 

The word Hun seems to describe suit those animals perfectly and I for one have no plans to stop calling them it.

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Once again the usual tribe lump in with "no that's approved and all strictly above board"

 

In this case, with that song, i would ban it outright. My reason being that by association it is inexorably linked to Protestant fundamentalism, as paraded by the lodge and sash types which is not against the law but common sense should prevail and where dubiety exists then it should be banned against.

 

What is the fascination with certain posters on here defending the indefensible

 

What is it about Derry's Walls that need guarding anyway, why uphold the broken political constructs of the past?

 

Why are "swords and shields" required, would there a fight if someone turned up?

 

Grow up for goodness sake, you are grown men!

 

Thank God all Hearts fans are not this @rse cringingly embarrassing and out of step with the modern democratic Scotland

 

BEsides, we would look and sound total hypocrates if we made a habit of singing these songs

 

Do you not think that some of the catholic players, especially the foreigners are somewhat baffled by this...

 

For the record I am neither in favor of Celtic or Hibs fans givin it large with stupid songs of dubious meaning

 

You are all as bad as each other in my book

 

SUnday best on now chaps, Church of Scotland bibles at the ready, peace to all fellow Christians and all that eh!

 

 

Cage rattled there then?:eek:

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It's not deemed Sectarian.

 

And thats the exact problem.

 

Its a complete cop out for either side of the OF to cite "there is nothing legally wrong with these songs". Sure, in the purest of technical terms, there may indeed be no "offensive" words. We know, and the OF know, that despite that fact, these songs are very very much part of the "bigger picture".

 

If the SFA had any balls they'd tell them to drop ths sh it e and aceept that, if sectarianism is to be educated out, these songs must go. End of. They are simply too entwined in the whole sorry mess.

 

Its that simple.

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Can i ask a question?

WHY would anyone want to sing this at a football match in the first place?

 

Because it's a great song, which is 100% relevant to football.

 

Can't you see this?

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Dear Wallace Mercer

 

'bitch like a woman', behave.

 

What i am alluding to [if it doesnae tax yer brain to read and think at the same time] is that for the short period I have been posting here, [and yes I am a supporter of HMFC, not of the other persuasion in any way] is that those who simply say nothing or rather give it 'nowt wrong with that' or justify the singing of these songs or chants or do not openly condone behavior a la the tw@ts that got busted on the train always and i mean always on the side of a value set nothing short of moronic

 

I recognise that 'tradition' which can best be described as antiquated values and beliefs will take some time to be washed out of the HEarts support, until that day i reserve my right to express an opinion.

 

THis site is by the fans for the fans not just rabid dog uber types that sit and say nothing cos they really want to defend those walls with their swords and shields arm in arm like.

 

What is it that scares you so much then, the right of people like me to point out that the singing of songs like this usually manifest in someone getting a doing or stabbed or killed. It does and has happened you know

 

As far as 'an ole bit hibby, i do admit to being a catholic but no, not a hibby, never was, never will, even in the after life

 

now go lie down Wallace and stroke yer mantoy, it's the only friend you have

 

muppet

 

Hob woman bitch indeed!

 

it really has no place in football, a bit like Romanov

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Some facts about this particular song:

 

 

Title:

Derry's Walls

Author unknown

No recordings known

Category:

Loyalist Song

All song rights and copyrights belong to the respective authors and/or composers and this material might be copyrighted. Inform us if your rights are violated

 

Copyright Statement

 

The time has scarce gone round boys

Three hundred years ago

When rebels on old Derry's walls

Their faces dare not show

When James and all his rebel band

Came up to Bishop's Gate

With heart and hand and sword and shield

We forced him to retreat

 

We'll fight and don't surrender

But come when duty calls

With heart and hand and sword and shield

We'll guard old Derry's walls

 

When blood did flow in crimson streams

Through many a winter's night

They knew the Lord was on their side

To help them in their fight

They nobly stood up on the walls

Determined for to fight

Or fight and gain the victory

And raise the crimson high

 

We'll fight and don't surrender

But come when duty calls

With heart and hand and sword and shield

We'll guard old Derry's walls

 

At last, at last with one broadside

Kind heaven sent them aid

The boom that crossed the Foyle was broke

And James he was dismayed

The banner boys that floated

Was run aloft with joy

God bless the hands that broke the boom

And saved the apprentice boys

 

We'll fight and don't surrender

But come when duty calls

With heart and hand and sword and shield

We'll guard old Derry's walls

 

Hardly a simple folk tale, it is a song sung by Loyalists about Loyalists being heroes to the Loyalist cause and defending Loyalist beliefs

 

It isn't banned, but it should be cause any cause, Loyalist or Republican aint worth singing about

 

K? got that, get it now

 

Nothing to do with football, everything to do with Ireland and Loyalism. What place does that have in modern society?

 

Unless you believe in Loyalism, then this song and similar songs are quite rightly judged vile and contemptuous by free thinking right minded people like a great many here!

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Someone needs to bring out abook...............the acceptable songs to sing at games.

 

The PC self righteous mob on here can write it

 

 

Until then i will sit in silence

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Lets hope it aint Boomtown or THerapist or Bomber or Commander that write it

 

We'll all be screwed

 

i'm jokin, i'm jokin...

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Lets hope it aint Boomtown or THerapist or Bomber or Commander that write it

 

We'll all be screwed

 

i'm jokin, i'm jokin...

 

hahah but i think we can safely say none of those dudes are in the PC brigade

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Commander Harris
Lets hope it aint Boomtown or THerapist or Bomber or Commander that write it

 

We'll all be screwed

 

i'm jokin, i'm jokin...

 

I fail to see why I have been mentioned here. All I did was answer the OP's question and stated that I felt discriminatory songs were unacceptable. I have only stated facts on this thread, the only opinion I gave was that I agreed that a set of guidelines that outlawed discriminatory songs was a reasonable thing to have. I don't think that is a particularly extreme opinion?

 

for the record, I don't see the need for songs like Derry's Walls or the Sash at a football match, I don't sing them, I never have and I never will. Having said that, if others want to I see no way that this can be legislated against and therefore they are free to sing them if they wish.

 

I am simply speaking from a practical point of view. If someone would like to suggest a workable way such songs could be legislated against, either in law or by an organisation such as the SPL or SFA then I'd like to hear it. Laws rely on definitive criteria - what criteria would people suggest - the Gerry McNee "get rid of all that Irish tosh" criteria? (something that seem to me to be more bigoted than many of these songs).

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lost in leith

I'd like to think I despise the huns as much any Jambo, but I'm not sure banning The Sash and Derry's Walls is the answer. By all means ridicule them for the bigotry that lies behind them singing these songs (and Celtic fans for singing similar songs), but a legal ban only works if the words are sectarian.

 

Suggesting banning songs because they have nothing to do with football is just plain silly. Does that mean we can't sing "White Christmas", and Killie can't sing "Paper Roses" :confused:

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Alba gu Brath
Can i ask a question?

WHY would anyone want to sing this at a football match in the first place?

 

Exactly, what the... has this got to do with Hearts? Or football? If you're proud of 'proddie' heritage, fine. Just go to church like a guid christian and shut up about it. Funny thing is... the Pope, the RA, Celtic fans, whoever aren't actually stopping them worshipping in church. It's just an excuse for hatred.

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lost in leith
Exactly, what the... has this got to do with Hearts? Or football? If you're proud of 'proddie' heritage, fine. Just go to church like a guid christian and shut up about it. Funny thing is... the Pope, the RA, Celtic fans, whoever aren't actually stopping them worshipping in church. It's just an excuse for hatred.

 

I can't resist asking what Flower of Scotland has to do with football :cool:

 

FWIW I've sung it countless times.........

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I always chuckle when people suggest the SFA should publish an acceptable singing list. We must be the only country in the world that needs to be told what's offensive or not. My general rule of thumb would be if you have to stop and think about whether it's ok, then it's probably not.

 

P.S. I was at St James Park yesterday, it was the best atmosphere I've experienced in years, however, I can't remember one remotely offensive song. In fact there was very wasn't even much swearing, plus people continued to support rather than barrack a fairly mediocre team (Keegan effect probably has a lot to do with that admittedly). Totally different world from Tynecasle to be honest.

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Colonel Kurtz

Celtic and rangers are just different ends of the same turd,their songs bear no resemblance to actual irish history.

Look up the lyrics of Dollys Brae and The Black watch (which was sung at parkhead after recent deaths in Iraq) to get a better idea what they are about

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