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Transfer windows, new players, and the need for a new manager


shaun.lawson

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Certainly, I think we're all agreed on the latter point! I do suspect though, as I've written several times before, that Vlad's past behaviour means we have very few options, and our one realistic one - JJ - is increasingly unlikely to happen because Killie are doing so badly. Which can only mean that we sit tight: I'd be astonished if the club do nothing having made such a point of publicising the search a month ago - but it may very well be that decent options only become available in the summer. Would you honestly rather we appoint any old nomark than bide our time and wait for the right man?

 

The same goes for transfers, too. We are plainly cutting costs, and have a very different strategy to the one we started 2005/6 with. Two years ago, we embarrassed ourselves with a ridiculous number of loanees and acquisitions, including one very expensive misfit, Mirsad Besilija (our answer to Paul Bernard, if you think about it). That ain't going to happen again - not least because giving Frail and whoever ultimately comes in full control over selection and signings means, surely, an end to copious numbers of loanees from Kaunas. If we'd just done what we usually do, it'd surely have put off any realistic candidates, because it'd have suggested that Vlad was still interfering.

 

And it's not just us, either. Take a look around: I know a number of mainly low key signings were completed yesterday, but haven't you noticed how quiet the January window has been for everyone? And why? Because it's incredibly difficult to recruit quality players. Other than in a few cases such as Dundee United and Barry Robson, clubs don't want to let them go, and push their asking prices way up as a result. Invariably, most of the players who have been transferred were unhappy at their current clubs, to the point where they became bad apples: this, I believe, was the case with both Woodgate and Defoe, for instance. And of course, an awful lot of those who clubs are willing to part with are, well, just not very good in the first place.

 

Whether the reputation Vlad's behaviour has attracted to HMFC has played a part too, I honestly don't know: it's certainly possible. But the whole January window has become a virtual anachronism: clubs just don't do business until the summer now.

 

This isn't some apologist attempt to get everyone onside again: I'm well aware of how awful this season's been, feel hugely disappointed, and share pretty much everyone's demands to learn from all that's happened and get us back on track. I just don't feel it was ever realistically going to happen over the past month, that's all. I'm not sure if I understand this February 1 deadline that's been drawn in the sand by many on here either: did the club say an appointment would be made this month? There are many factors which may have prevented it from happening. Meanwhile, the season's a write-off (as it's looked like being since the first ball was kicked), but at least we've made some progress under Frail since he was given full control. Personally, I don't see what's lost by leaving him in charge until the right man becomes interested and available: the summer is the time for rebuilding, after all. Just so long as it happens - otherwise, the club will have a lot of very unhappy people on their hands...

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That ain't going to happen again - not least because giving Frail and whoever ultimately comes in full control over selection and signings means, surely, an end to copious numbers of loanees from Kaunas. ...

 

Shaun - you know that's never going to happen. There will always be 5-6 Kaunas loanees here, and this is, one way or another, all to do with money.

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Shaun - you know that's never going to happen. There will always be 5-6 Kaunas loanees here, and this is, one way or another, all to do with money.

 

It'll have to if any new manager is to have full autonomy.

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It'll have to if any new manager is to have full autonomy.

 

I don't think "full" and "autonomy" will ever be in the same sentence uttered by Vlad in discussion with a new manager.

 

"Fool" ... maybe ...

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Good post.

 

Hearts fans have become disaffected by the mismanagement of the club since October 2005. The lack of activity during the transfer window is simply the latest insult.

 

A quality manager remains the priority. If we appoint a manager and allow him to assemble his own squad in the summer then I'd agree that there was no sense in acquiring players now to see out a season where we'll scrape into the top six, at best.

 

I can't help but feel like a donkey with a carrot dangling before me.

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I don't think "full" and "autonomy" will ever be in the same sentence uttered by Vlad in discussion with a new manager.

 

"Fool" ... maybe ...

 

We'll see. But I don't think the club would've issued the New Year's statement, and especially Vlad made those comments a week or two back, if he hadn't changed tack.

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the summer is the time for rebuilding, after all. Just so long as it happens - otherwise, the club will have a lot of very unhappy people on their hands...

 

This is why nothing will ever change. Every time fans draw a line of acceptability and the club ignore it, the fans just re-draw the line rather than stand by their convictions. No credibility to protest in any way whatsoever... And it doesn't matter whether the club said they'd have a manager and/or players in during January - the fans (healthy majority at least) made their own decision.

Because a club does not make a specific promise does not mean the fans should accept it and expect nothing. By that logic if Hearts were relegated the board could come out and say "well, we never actually stated we'd stay up at any point, did we?" Oh well... that's fair enough then... better give them more time!

 

No, sorry... When they shamelessly come round with the collection tins at ticket renewal time, they should be told where to stick it and why.

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This is why nothing will ever change. Every time fans draw a line of acceptability and the club ignore it, the fans just re-draw the line rather than stand by their convictions. No credibility to protest in any way whatsoever... And it doesn't matter whether the club said they'd have a manager and/or players in during January - the fans (healthy majority at least) made their own decision.

Because a club does not make a specific promise does not mean the fans should accept it and expect nothing. By that logic if Hearts were relegated the board could come out and say "well, we never actually stated we'd stay up at any point, did we?" Oh well... that's fair enough then... better give them more time!

 

No, sorry... When they shamelessly come round with the collection tins at ticket renewal time, they should be told where to stick it and why.

 

Two big problems with the above. First, I've only taken the stance I have because we have improved, albeit relatively, under Frail: we're not looking at a relegation battle now. If we were, or even if we actually went down, then of course the need for immediate action would be far more pressing. And second: as I see it, it's impossible to draw a line beyond, say, early July. Any new manager will have to have a full pre-season with his squad, and time to bring in players. If it hasn't happened by then, open season will be entirely justified - but now? Sorry, but I just don't think so.

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Two big problems with the above. First, I've only taken the stance I have because we have improved, albeit relatively, under Frail: we're not looking at a relegation battle now. If we were, or even if we actually went down, then of course the need for immediate action would be far more pressing. And second: as I see it, it's impossible to draw a line beyond, say, early July. Any new manager will have to have a full pre-season with his squad, and time to bring in players. If it hasn't happened by then, open season will be entirely justified - but now? Sorry, but I just don't think so.

 

But ... this ties in with the RR quote in another thread - 3 years ago to the day, he said "judge us in a year" ...

 

How long do we wait for the Promised Land?

 

Actually how long do we wait for a decent signing, league place and Cup run?

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January is not a good time to sign major players who you're going to be building your team around. I think everyone's agreed on that. But that's not to say you can't sign a couple of players, even on loans or short term deals, to improve things for the remainder of the season.

 

Romanov never said we'd have a new manager in January. But surely we need one asap? The quicker the manager comes in and starts to work with the players, the quicker he'll be able to assess them and get his plans for the next season in place. If we don't appoint someone until summer, then all he has got to go on is pre-season training and friendlies. So we could be in the position where he won't be able to make the changes he wants until the next transfer window, which is a year away!

 

The only saving grace at the moment is that we're in no danger of going down as Gretna really are rank rotten and St Mirren aren't far behind.

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peebles jambo

good post

 

i'm not so sure about leaving frail in charge though, anybody who rates elliot, robbie, goncalves and some of our eastern european buddies is not fit to be in charge, IMO

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January is not a good time to sign major players who you're going to be building your team around. I think everyone's agreed on that. But that's not to say you can't sign a couple of players, even on loans or short term deals, to improve things for the remainder of the season.

 

Romanov never said we'd have a new manager in January. But surely we need one asap? The quicker the manager comes in and starts to work with the players, the quicker he'll be able to assess them and get his plans for the next season in place. If we don't appoint someone until summer, then all he has got to go on is pre-season training and friendlies. So we could be in the position where he won't be able to make the changes he wants until the next transfer window, which is a year away!

 

The only saving grace at the moment is that we're in no danger of going down as Gretna really are rank rotten and St Mirren aren't far behind.

 

True - but if the right man isn't available til then, what do we do? Meanwhile, as much as I take your point, Burley, Mowbray and McGhee were all appointed by their respective SPL clubs in the summer - and it didn't stop them enjoying immediate success...

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But ... this ties in with the RR quote in another thread - 3 years ago to the day, he said "judge us in a year" ...

 

How long do we wait for the Promised Land?

 

Actually how long do we wait for a decent signing, league place and Cup run?

 

Until next season: in keeping with the entirety of our modern history, in other words. Meanwhile, I thought RR's comments were around the time Rix was appointed? In which case, one year on, he could easily have pointed towards 2nd place, the Cup win, bigger gates and higher commercial income. It'd have been a deeply flawed answer, for reasons we all know about - but one he could legitimately have come up with.

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True - but if the right man isn't available til then, what do we do? Meanwhile, as much as I take your point, Burley, Mowbray and McGhee were all appointed by their respective SPL clubs in the summer - and it didn't stop them enjoying immediate success...

 

Well we have to wait of course. And let's give Romanov the benefit of the doubt, he's obviously got someone lined up who is currently in a contract. So can he not come out and say something to that effect?

 

But you're right, sometimes when you get a good manager in, he can turn things around with the same bunch of players who failed miserably to perform under a previous manager. I still think that's asking a lot in our current circumstances, given all that's been going on and just how badly our squad are performing at the moment.

 

But we should try to be optimistic.

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Well we have to wait of course. And let's give Romanov the benefit of the doubt, he's obviously got someone lined up who is currently in a contract. So can he not come out and say something to that effect?

 

But you're right, sometimes when you get a good manager in, he can turn things around with the same bunch of players who failed miserably to perform under a previous manager. I still think that's asking a lot in our current circumstances, given all that's been going on and just how badly our squad are performing at the moment.

 

But we should try to be optimistic.

 

How is that obvious?

 

And clubs just normally buy out contracts of managers to move them on.

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How is that obvious?

 

And clubs just normally buy out contracts of managers to move them on.

 

That was just me responding to the counter-point made above. If he's not appointed anyone yet, then it means he's either got someone lined up who is in a contract or he's simply not found the right man yet.

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boabyarsebiscuit

We need a manager, sooner rather than later. A month and counting should indicate there's not going to be a "panic" appointment. We need a manager before the summer though, and if that means paying compensation for a manager currently managing another club, then so be it.

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Well we have to wait of course. And let's give Romanov the benefit of the doubt, he's obviously got someone lined up who is currently in a contract. So can he not come out and say something to that effect?

But you're right, sometimes when you get a good manager in, he can turn things around with the same bunch of players who failed miserably to perform under a previous manager. I still think that's asking a lot in our current circumstances, given all that's been going on and just how badly our squad are performing at the moment.

 

But we should try to be optimistic.

 

Sorry, that's a no-no. Things happen: look at Redknapp and Newcastle, or for that matter, at Eriksson agreeing to join Blackburn in Summer '97, before changing his mind when Lazio came calling. Clubs never publicly reveal the names of people on a shortlist, or of anyone being lined up: it's utterly fraught. I'm also not saying I think we have someone lined up anyway: all I think is we are currently very limited in terms of options, and likely to have more come the summer.

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Shaun, unsually I find myself diagreeing with you.

 

I agree that Vlads past, will make it a lot harder for us to get a manager. However, how will sitting tight until the summer change this? It is very unlikely that more managers are going to become available. The managerial merry go-round is pretty static. Some jump on some jump off, but generally the same people exist.

 

Why can't we appoint someone now. Is a Mark Mcgee type more likely to come in the summer. I doubt it. SF having a few months of apparant control ain't going to change his mind.

 

Why the belief that we will suddently have lots of options come the summer? Its not really the case, unless you are keen on taking a manager who has just been punted.

 

Sorry, I just don't see how some manager is going to become available that will solve all the problems.

 

People and Hearts are making this appointment of a manager sound a lot harder than it is. You get a list of canditates and work you're way from your preffered canditate to your least preferred canditate. Until, someone takes, the job and they will.

 

With regard to the appointment of a no-mark. No one is looking for that, all people want is the appointment of a competent coach. The method I highlighted earlier would have seen that.

 

I'm sorry leaving the appointment to the summer, if it happens, is a nonsense it itself. The season is over give the new man the chance to come in assess the squad an re-build in the close season.

 

You and I both know if we appoint in the summer, the same nonsense we've had will be trotted out. The manager etc, not had time to assess the squad make changes etc. Lets wait until the January transfer window!

 

We need to break the cycle we have. That means appointing a manager timously. He may not be top of our lest, however, they are probably the best we can get. We need to accept that we need to start building our reputation. This means Vlad butting out for a period of time. Frail being appointed for a period will prove nothing.

 

I'm really hope I'm wrong. But the comparison with Frail and Valdas are there for all to see.

 

One final thing who would you rather have Frail or Jefferies? Jefferies arrival would give us a chance to re-build and steady the ship for a while. Do we really think we would get much better than him after Vlads antics? Not saying he is the best canditate, but someone like him may well be the very best we can get.

 

I don't often disagree with you either, LBJ! But I do believe there will be many more available managers come the summer: many are loathe to jump ship mid-season, but May represents a natural break point. McGhee, oddly enough, is a very strong case in point: even had he been prepared to move mid-season in the first place, the tragedy involving Phil O'Donnell ended all possibility of that. He'll only leave with Motherwell's express blessing; and that certainly won't come about until the summer.

 

I'm suggesting this because I suspect that our list of candidates is extremely limited right now - and that in all likelihood, we're going to end up looking abroad, where there will be more on the market come the close season than now. Bear in mind though that whoever it ultimately is, he's bound to have his own contacts, and players he already has in mind: meaning the "let's wait til January" line won't wash, not least because so little business seems to be done in January anyway.

 

Finally, I would prefer JJ to Frail, and definitely want someone decent ahead of Shaggy, who's self-evidently very underqualified - but I can also understand if the club don't feel Jefferies is their man. Arguably, his best days are a full decade behind him, and while he'd surely steady the ship, he's very far away from the kind of modern coach I'd imagine we're looking for.

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How is that obvious?

 

And clubs just normally buy out contracts of managers to move them on.

 

One name immediately springs to mind - Mark McGhee, who has said he won't leave Motherwell before the end of the season. I'm not saying he's our man but that would be a reason for allowing Frail to work with the squad until the end of the season. As previously said, we have improved under him and are in no danger of relegation, with a real possibility of getting 4th place.

 

As far as the lack of transfer activity is concerned, what's the point of bringing in players just for the sake of it? Unless they are an improvement on what we've got, why do it? Rangers and Celtic apart, there has been very little movement in Scotland so we are no worse off, relatively speaking, than any of our rivals and Dundee United and Aberdeen, I would say, have been weakened. We have brought in Screpis, an unknown quantity who we have to be prepared to allow time to settle in. We also have Larry coming back in a couple of weeks and Aquair is close to coming back so it will be like 3 signings. Add in Terry and we have a possible 4 new players to refresh the team.

 

All in all, I'm not too despondent. My feeling is we will get a new manager and he will take us forward. Our squad, despite what many on here say, ad nauseum, is strong enough to get third place at least (probably not this season) and, when a new manager, with full autonomy, comes in we will strengthen. Remember, too, our up and coming youngsters. As everyone who watches the under 19s keeps saying there are some very exciting prospects there, some easily good enough to play for the first team now.

 

I really can't get depressed about our situation (I was at the start of the year). I can see light at the end of the tunnel and I refuse to indulge in "what might have been" if things hadn't gone wrong in October 2005.

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I would prefer to see an experienced manager right now. The season may or may not be finished now but someone has to come in to asses the whole squad in time for a major clear out at the end of the season. More importantly a manager with proven man management skills is a must as he would be able to bring in some of the youngsters and hold their hand and give them confidence to play in this league,forget the overpaid duds that we already have and nurture the talent we have waiting for a breakthrough.

 

Of course you can't do that unless the new man has a vision on how he wants the team to play.

 

We have none of these skills at management level at the moment.

 

Find Somebody now Vlad

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Does anyone genuinely believe that a current manager in the SPL, or in fact one who is in a job in the UK, will come to work for Vlad given how he's treated every manager who's worked under him so far?

 

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think we'll have a huge pool of managers to choose from tbh.

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Sometime in life you just have to agree to disagree. I can see where you are coming from, however, I just think the manager market we are operating in is so rstricted, due to Vlads past, than summer will not make a difference.

 

On a general comment, I do not see any SPL manager with the exception of Jefferies prepared to jump ship for us. We're far too high risk, therefore, we will need someone who has a connection with the club would persuade him. Jefferies is probably the only canditate. Whilst, I agree his best days are behind him realistically, could we reallistically do much better?

 

I suspect you are right a foriegn coach is most likely, if we appoint. Still a big IF for me. Though, I just have a horrible feeling, Frail is Valdas mark II.

 

I agree with you. Much as I'd love to be proven wrong, I can't see McGhee or even John Hughes being prepared to join, because of all the reasons you've mentioned. But I don't think JJ's the answer either: meaning we have to look abroad, but hopefully to someone outside VR's sphere of influence who's achieved things in his own right, rather than yet another crony from the pyramid.

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vlad on the tyne

i dont see a new manger being appointed until at least july.

 

there was no point in hearts splashing out yesterday, the season ended after wednesday night. get the academy boys in for a taste of the spl and see who copes best as they are the future?

 

is screpis a replacement for stewart or kingston?

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