HMFC Season Ticket Holders Association

[Only a Game]

To carry on the debate on the good and bad things about our representation with the club, how would everyone feel about the formation of a Season ticket holders assoctaion ?

 

The basis of my idea would be to recruit members on a small subscription basis, with the initial aim of becoming the biggest fans representation group. To seek represenation officially recognised by the club. To unite the other fans groups under the one umberella with eventual representation on the commitee permitted by significant members of the other current groups, dissolving those groups but maintaining the representation of their interests.

 

One group, one committee, transparent and open discussion with the club and full feedback to the members.

 

Have a vote, you know you want to. !!

 

You can chose more than one option and the vote is private.(Although if your willling to help organise, posting your name might be helpful for later)

[cosanostra]

Sorry if this hijacking your thread, but i think the idea of making kickback into an official supporters club is not a bad one.

 

Not sure if it's possible or practical but there are thousands of Hearts fans who read and post on JKB from all over the globe.

 

Would be cool if we could somehow represent those voices through this website.

[Only a Game]

Sorry if this hijacking your thread, but i think the idea of making kickback into an official supporters club is not a bad one.

 

Not sure if it's possible or practical but there are thousands of Hearts fans who read and post on JKB from all over the globe.

 

Would be cool if we could somehow represent those voices through this website.

 

No problem. All ideas welcome.

 

From memory though I think was raised in the past and kickback members were strongly in favour of retaining full independence from the club. Joining an organisation affiliated to the club might well dilute that independence.

[cosanostra]

No problem. All ideas welcome.

 

From memory though I think was raised in the past and kickback members were strongly in favour of retaining full independence from the club. Joining an organisation affiliated to the club might well dilute that independence.

 

How much influence does the club have over any other supporters club though?

 

I have no idea, i'm not a member of one.

 

Just a kickbacker who knows plenty of other kickbackers that are, at this moment, unrepresented by anyone.

[Only a Game]

How much influence does the club have over any other supporters club though?

 

I have no idea, i'm not a member of one.

 

Just a kickbacker who knows plenty of other kickbackers that are, at this moment, unrepresented by anyone.

 

I'm not sure about the politics of it all TBH. I believe it was raised when we first met with Charlie Mann, David Southern etc and was put down as being undesirable for the club to have any influence over jamboskickback. i.e if the club provided the privelege of recognition they might well expect something(who knows what) in return or withdraw the priveleges if they didnt like what they were reading here. Put it this way way, they cant possibly like most of what is said here ?

 

I'd be reasonably happy going down that route but I think you'll find that the influential people on here, the admin team etc, wouldnt be interested in supporting it. I am sure I'll be corrected if thats a mistaken view.

[7628mm]

Sorry if this hijacking your thread, but i think the idea of making kickback into an official supporters club is not a bad one.

 

Not sure if it's possible or practical but there are thousands of Hearts fans who read and post on JKB from all over the globe.

 

Would be cool if we could somehow represent those voices through this website.

 

I am very much in favour of a season ticket holders association as this would probably be the most representative body of the regular paying customer. It is after all those who pay their money that should have the most say and also the most clout with regards to communication from and to the club. It in theory could be very easy to set up. You buy your season ticket and automatically become a member with an immediate line of communication via the good old post office at least with e-mail etc.

 

I am most certainly not in favour of having JKB officially represented in any way shape or form. This is a forum for any individual to air their views regarding Hearts. It is open to anybody who cares to join and abides to the rules of the forum. You do not have to support Hearts to be a member of JKB and as such could be infiltrated by other interested parties who have nothing but mischief as their agenda. This could be most damaging to all hearts supporters and a move that I would resist strongly.

[grumpyjambo]

Sorry if this hijacking your thread, but i think the idea of making kickback into an official supporters club is not a bad one.

 

Not sure if it's possible or practical but there are thousands of Hearts fans who read and post on JKB from all over the globe.

 

Would be cool if we could somehow represent those voices through this website.

 

Good shout, I would be interested in a JKB Supporters Clup.

[Flogel98]

Interesting response again similar to the other poll about who's in what.

 

Long way to go before setting anything up tho'.

 

13500 ST's should be a pretty powerful organisation but how many of these people are already "affiliated" elsewhere and would they wish to join.

 

For me personally, the indepenence thing is very important.

 

I said on another thread yesterday that it's one of the things I like about the fans forum compared to other groups.

[John S]

As someone who is only represented by the shareholdrs association (smallest group I think) I'd hapily join a ST group, a Kickback group, and possibly both.

 

Equally, I'd be happy tp devote some time to setting up such a body.

[Jammy Git]

Potentially a ST association could be a good idea if members were prepared to exercise their numbers collectively when appropriate.

 

Shareholders still exert influence because they have a financial stake in the club and the same could be true for season ticket holders.

 

Money talks with this club. As does image.

 

Imagine if one Saturday it was agreed not to buy programmes, or anything from the catering huts another day, a walk out 15 minutes from time during a live TV broadcast.

 

Of course, we all hope it wouldn't come to that, but if this slip continues then it would be open for debate.

 

As for JKB, i don't think it would work in quite the same way. I think much of the benefit comes from the fact that anyone from any group or supporter's club can post without bias.

 

Yet it doesn't mean fans couldn't form an association of its own to support the forum and ensure it retains its independence.

[Samster]

A ST holders association is a great idea in my opinion. As a group we put more money into the club than any other group of supporters yet we have no representation whatsoever (obviously some ST holders are members of other organisations).

 

I would definately join.

[Samster]

Shareholders still exert influence because they have a financial stake in the club and the same could be true for season ticket holders.

 

 

 

This is true but i'm sure I spend more on a season ticket than most people have in shares.

 

There can be very few people left with a substantial share holding. Most people who still have them will be for sentimental reasons (Granny got them 100 shares for Christmas etc).

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I think it's a great idea and I would join.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Im not sure how you could have a JKB representation withouth first removing all those on JKB who are not Hearts fans? As surely their voice would not be valued in any JKB representative opinions.

 

I know at the moment the 'real' members would outweigh any other opinions, but this would leave JKB setting up for a fall, if anyone could join and be able to voice an opinion influencing the JKB supporters outcome.

 

JKB should be a sounding board, for ideas, as it currently is, with all welcome as long as they obey the rules. This is what makes JKB good, its what gives it its value, by allowing anyone to say what they want and for others to disagree.

 

Other associations are there and can be joined if this is the will of the individual.

 

I think if someone wants to create a seperate JKB supporterse association, using JKB as a means of getting those interested to become aware and join, then fair enough. But again, this will simply divide those on here as those who are part of the JKBA and those that are not. And youll be back to square one with the haves and have nots.

 

I think a more sensible approach is a half way option. Where JKB can be represented, but not given any privelidged status. The collective voice of JKB should therefore be offered, but its success would have to live and die based on the value othes see in the JKB collective voice. Hopefullly they would see it as a powerful and representive opinion of a large number of fans, and WANT to include it. However, if they chose not too, it would have to be accepted that the JKB representation would not be included.

 

As pointed out, anything else would simply be another elite association with division between those who are and those who are not invovled.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

I would join a season ticket holders association.

[Das Root]

I'd join and help organise

[Hagar the Horrible]

It would only work If by purchasing a season ticket you automatically become a member and it is fully ratified (and financed) by the club they could easily charge a pound per season ticket to cover expenses. Then an elected committee will represent all hearts supports Fed members and share holders should by default be included. Non season ticket holders could buy into membership in the same way that would put them down for priority tickets when available (Liverpool run the same sort of thing, if you want tickets you have to join the clubs fan club and then apply for tickets). I would be willing to help on this with other on here as i have the time

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Fed members and share holders should by default be included.

Why?

 

IMO, they should be included if and only if they have a ST.

[troonjambo]

Sorry if this hijacking your thread, but i think the idea of making kickback into an official supporters club is not a bad one.

 

Not sure if it's possible or practical but there are thousands of Hearts fans who read and post on JKB from all over the globe.

 

Would be cool if we could somehow represent those voices through this website.

 

sorry mate its a ludicrious idea this board is littered with hibs supporters mascaradeing as jambos and hearts fans who do not attend any games whatsoever (and off cource there entitled to there opinion)

however supporters clubs are bye and large for the people who spend there money attend games and support hearts finacally

[Hagar the Horrible]

Why?

 

IMO, they should be included if and only if they have a ST.

 

Because we could be in the possition where we cant predict how many season ticket holders we have? at one time the Feb represented the vast majority of fans goint to games (home & away) they still represent the majority of away fans? so we could be in a possition where even with 13000 season ticket holders, that may only represent 25% of fans, and you are back at your argument about why the Fed dont represent you!

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Because we could be in the possition where we cant predict how many season ticket holders we have? at one time the Feb represented the vast majority of fans goint to games (home & away) they still represent the majority of away fans? so we could be in a possition where even with 13000 season ticket holders, that may only represent 25% of fans, and you are back at your argument about why the Fed dont represent you!

 

 

Ok, I'm completely lost reading that.

 

Are you suggesting we're gonna start getting crowds of 50k? And only 13k will be ST holders?

 

I don't know any time when the Fed has represented the vast majority of fans going to games. It represents a small minority of fans, because the vast majority of fans aren't members of the federation.

 

IMO, The vast majority of Hearts fans that go to games regularly are ST holders. Thats why they have ST's.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Not difficult to understand, i am saying we cant predict the future so how do you know that season ticket holders will in future represent the majority of fans? and during the 70's the Fed did represent the majority of fans (mind you the attendances were poor sometimes dropping to 3k)???????

 

But i don't agree with a sole elitist club like the one you are campaigning against, it should be open to everybody (free so ST holders) and a membership for those who cant get to games regularly.

[Walter Payton]

sorry mate its a ludicrious idea this board is littered with hibs supporters mascaradeing as jambos and hearts fans who do not attend any games whatsoever (and off cource there entitled to there opinion)

however supporters clubs are bye and large for the people who spend there money attend games and support hearts finacally

 

I'd be very interested in joining a ST holders association. I can understand both sides of the recent debate about the Supporters Club association, but I've never "needed" to join a club to help with travel to games- I've always either lived within walking distance to Tynie or on the other side of the world, in an area with no other jambos around to meet up with for drinks! A ST holder association where you automatically had membership rights when you bought a ST would be great IMO.

[Strachsuit]

Would definitely be up for being a part of this, the club should be arranging this to go ahead though and the st holders all vote for a board of representatives that are changed every 2 years or so. All st holders could get monthly updates through the post as well.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Not difficult to understand, i am saying we cant predict the future so how do you know that season ticket holders will in future represent the majority of fans?

 

I think ST holders will always represent the majority who actually go to games.

 

But i don't agree with a sole elitist club like the one you are campaigning against, it should be open to everybody (free so ST holders) and a membership for those who cant get to games regularly.

 

 

IMO, a ST is the one common thing that the people who actually go to games each week have.

[sked21]

Good idea and I would join.

[Dougie Masterton]

To carry on the debate on the good and bad things about our representation with the club, how would everyone feel about the formation of a Season ticket holders assoctaion ?

 

The basis of my idea would be to recruit members on a small subscription basis, with the initial aim of becoming the biggest fans representation group. To seek represenation officially recognised by the club. To unite the other fans groups under the one umberella with eventual representation on the commitee permitted by significant members of the other current groups, dissolving those groups but maintaining the representation of their interests.

 

One group, one committee, transparent and open discussion with the club and full feedback to the members.

 

Have a vote, you know you want to. !!

 

 

 

 

 

You can chose more than one option and the vote is private.(Although if your willling to help organise, posting your name might be helpful for later)

 

 

A very similar idea was put to the club in May of last year.

[portobellojambo1]

Interesting response so far, although admittedly it is still a fairly small poll.

 

Of the 77 who have responded 81.82% have indicated they would join, however only 28.57% have indicated they would be willing to put their hand in their pocket.

 

So transposing this onto the total S/T number of 13,500, you potentially have an organisation of 11,046, with income coming from only 3,857.

 

Could cause problems, could cause division, best idea is to have an organisation where all pay fees or where none pay.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

A very similar idea was put to the club in May of last year.

 

Did they give any sort of response?

[sked21]

Interesting response so far, although admittedly it is still a fairly small poll.

 

Of the 77 who have responded 81.82% have indicated they would join, however only 28.57% have indicated they would be willing to put their hand in their pocket.

 

So transposing this onto the total S/T number of 13,500, you potentially have an organisation of 11,046, with income coming from only 3,857.

 

Could cause problems, could cause division, best idea is to have an organisation where all pay fees or where none pay.

 

So just say you are right with the 3.857. That means over 20% of season ticket holders. I have no idea about figures of toher supporters group but surely that would be the largest of the lot?

[Poseidon]

I also think a ST group would be a great idea and I would be interested in joining it.

[redm]

I think the ST association idea is by far the most sensible and practical and having given it FAR too much thought last night and this morning, I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that nobody has done it before now...

 

I do agree with the poster who mentioned the danger of ending up being equally as elitist as the Fed if membership is restricted to ST holders only...that's not something that sits well with me either. I see no reason why it would have to work that way and I'm sure non-ST holders would be just as welcome as anyone else. Kind of defeats the whole purpose otherwise! I can see why OAG felt that it should be named the STHA though, if it was to come to fruition they would make up the overwhelming majority of the membership. More importantly, it conveys the idea that if you're an ST holder, you should sign up...That alone would keep the association topped up with bodies for years to come. There's no point building influence if you can't sustain it.

 

And while I'm horribly embarrassed that this is turning into yet ANOTHER 43 page novel...I'm not quite finished yet....

 

When this was all being debated yesterday, someone mentioned the Fans Forum and the fact that they're not really getting the members that they should. So wouldn't it maybe be more sensible to consider amalgamating with the FF and making something even better? It's impossible to know how viable this idea is at this point (or how receptive the FF would be to the idea!), but I think it's definitely worth some thought. From what I think I know, the people running the FF seem to have started it with many of the same intentions and motives...and of course...they seem to know their stuff when it comes to things like this.

[redm]

Interesting response so far, although admittedly it is still a fairly small poll.

 

Of the 77 who have responded 81.82% have indicated they would join, however only 28.57% have indicated they would be willing to put their hand in their pocket.

 

So transposing this onto the total S/T number of 13,500, you potentially have an organisation of 11,046, with income coming from only 3,857.

 

Could cause problems, could cause division, best idea is to have an organisation where all pay fees or where none pay.

 

I don't think that's what OAG was getting at PJ1...I think he's just trying to gauge opinion and see what sort of thing people do and don't want. You can pick more than one option when you vote so it's not a case of either-or....the figures don't necessarily impact upon each other directly.

[Jamboelite]

I think the ST association idea is by far the most sensible and practical and having given it FAR too much thought last night and this morning, I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that nobody has done it before now...

 

I do agree with the poster who mentioned the danger of ending up being equally as elitist as the Fed if membership is restricted to ST holders only...that's not something that sits well with me either. I see no reason why it would have to work that way and I'm sure non-ST holders would be just as welcome as anyone else. Kind of defeats the whole purpose otherwise! I can see why OAG felt that it should be named the STHA though, if it was to come to fruition they would make up the overwhelming majority of the membership. More importantly, it conveys the idea that if you're an ST holder, you should sign up...That alone would keep the association topped up with bodies for years to come. There's no point building influence if you can't sustain it.

 

And while I'm horribly embarrassed that this is turning into yet ANOTHER 43 page novel...I'm not quite finished yet....

 

When this was all being debated yesterday, someone mentioned the Fans Forum and the fact that they're not really getting the members that they should. So wouldn't it maybe be more sensible to consider amalgamating with the FF and making something even better? It's impossible to know how viable this idea is at this point (or how receptive the FF would be to the idea!), but I think it's definitely worth some thought. From what I think I know, the people running the FF seem to have started it with many of the same intentions and motives...and of course...they seem to know their stuff when it comes to things like this.

 

The Fans Forum is due an AGM soon and we are trying to arrange a date with the club which should be forthcoming soon. In terms of representing the fans then were always open to suggestions particularly those that incorporate as many fans from all ranges of groups not just ST holders.

 

The FF is non membership based which i feel is important and allows anyone an opinion to voice it through the Forum at anytime however being able to communicate to everyone and regularly has been the major difficulty we have faced and always have.

 

When the FF AGM date is confirmed there will be a thread here for those that want to attend and can raise the points mentioned here and anything else they feel relevant.

[Mr Sifter]

Not going to add too more to this thread other than to say the idea of a ST holders group is fantastic, and that i ould gladly give up some time to help this group get off the ground.

 

ps - I work nights so many any meetings around 11am, cheers ha ha!

[portobellojambo1]

The Fans Forum is due an AGM soon and we are trying to arrange a date with the club which should be forthcoming soon. In terms of representing the fans then were always open to suggestions particularly those that incorporate as many fans from all ranges of groups not just ST holders.

 

The FF is non membership based which i feel is important and allows anyone an opinion to voice it through the Forum at anytime however being able to communicate to everyone and regularly has been the major difficulty we have faced and always have.

 

When the FF AGM date is confirmed there will be a thread here for those that want to attend and can raise the points mentioned here and anything else they feel relevant.

 

I have been trying to get that point over jamboelite, honestly, maybe I just wasn't making it clear. People are talking about setting up a new organisation, for all supporters, when what they are trying to set up already exists., in the guise of The Fans Forum. If people will not support a membership free organisation, i.e The Fans Forum, I am not convinced they will support one which will ask for fees, although I wish those who are looking into this well.

[ando]

I have been trying to get that point over jamboelite, honestly, maybe I just wasn't making it clear. People are talking about setting up a new organisation, for all supporters, when what they are trying to set up already exists., in the guise of The Fans Forum. If people will not support a membership free organisation, i.e The Fans Forum, I am not convinced they will support one which will ask for fees, although I wish those who are looking into this well.

 

maybe if the FF held meetings more would come

[Vlad_Knows_Best]

When is the FF meetings held, how often and where?

[Bootboy100]

Superb idea and it would certainly be seen as a show of strength in terms of representation.

[portobellojambo1]

maybe if the FF held meetings more would come

 

The thing is, ando, that FF meetings (other than the AGM) and the content are determined by the fans, from ideas provided by them. Communication has been a problem admittedly, even the FF committee recognise this. They did create a website, on which people could leave ideas, suggestions, etc., a forum did exist on the previous version of JKB (I presume it will, in time, be re-populated on this version of JKB) and they are trying to expand on the ways they can communicate/interact with fans.

 

Most, in fact I think all, of the present committee are members of JKB, and contactable via the PM option available on here.

 

Hopefully the incoming committee will build on what has been done to date, including creating clearer means of communication, and in return hopefully the fans will back it by showing their support.

 

Although I wish those well that feel they may want to establish another group I honestly think there is one in existence which they could add to, without having to start from scratch again.

[ando]

The thing is, ando, that FF meetings (other than the AGM) and the content are determined by the fans, from ideas provided by them. Communication has been a problem admittedly, even the FF committee recognise this. They did create a website, on which people could leave ideas, suggestions, etc., a forum did exist on the previous version of JKB (I presume it will, in time, be re-populated on this version of JKB) and they are trying to expand on the ways they can communicate/interact with fans.

 

Most, in fact I think all, of the present committee are members of JKB, and contactable via the PM option available on here.

 

Hopefully the incoming committee will expand on what has been done to date, including creating clearer means of communication, and in return hopefully the fans will back it by showing their support.

 

Although I wish those well that feel they may want to establish another group I honestly think there is one in existence which they could add to/build to another level, without having to start from scratch again.

 

why not start with the thousands of potential customerss on match day