Tazio Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'm sitting watching the documentary on BBC4 about the Black Watch theatre show and Rose Gentle is on talking about her son dying in Iraq. I can understand her grief but at the end of the day her son was there as a soldier doing his job. Her entire stance baffles me to be truthful. My father served for 14 years and accepted that there were risks. At Gordon Gentles ages he was in Malaya fighting in the jungle in the frontline as a volunteer while the conscripts had easier duties, And he accepted it as he had volunteered, how is it different now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'm sitting watching the documentary on BBC4 about the Black Watch theatre show and Rose Gentle is on talking about her son dying in Iraq. I can understand her grief but at the end of the day her son was there as a soldier doing his job. Her entire stance baffles me to be truthful. My father served for 14 years and accepted that there were risks. At Gordon Gentles ages he was in Malaya fighting in the jungle in the frontline as a volunteer while the conscripts had easier duties, And he accepted it as he had volunteered, how is it different now? Exactly, it was her sons choice to join the army and he was big enough to know the risks. My dad served in Aden, Cyprus, Northern Ireland etc. I have photographs of two under culvert bombs the IRA failed to detonate underneath his armoured car as proof of the risk. Since he died she has been looking for a scapegoat and heavily influenced by the Scottish Socialist Party and their anti war stance. Whether or not the war was legal or not Gordon joined the army and the choice was his not his mothers. Although I do sympathise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think she is just one of these people that has become a sort-of unfortunate celebrity because of something horrible happening in her life and now she is tolerated by the public / politicians and is encouraged by the media. People will always look at her and feel deep sympathy for what she's been through so many will grant her an opportunity to speak. It is sad what happened to her son, especially if like she says, her son was so badly equipped that his death was caused due to insufficient technology provided to him by the MOD. So it's maybe not that her son died, just that he died needlessly that makes her want to voice her opinions. That's maybe not a bad thing as I think we'd all agree that if our government are going to send young men to war, they should have an excellent standard or equipment and training. Rose Gentle is Kind of like Leah Betts parents and will probably go on banging her drum until the end of her days so let her I say. If it puts any pressure on the MOD to properly equip soldiers then it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paws (FTH) Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Couldn't agree more Tazio. Nobody is forced to join the army, people have a choice to enlist and they know the risks involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scallywag Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think her main gripe is that he died because he didn't have the equipement he should have had. Lots of soldiers were complaining of the same problem and unfortunately for Rose her son was one who paid the price. Regardless of your opinions on the war (and I believe the biggest crime is that he was asked to fight there in the first place) the government have a duty to provide soldiers with the equipment they need to do their jobs. They should be aware of the risks when they take the job, but when you put your life on the line the least you expect is to properly equiped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think her main gripe is that he died because he didn't have the equipement he should have had. Lots of soldiers were complaining of the same problem and unfortunately for Rose her son was one who paid the price. Regardless of your opinions on the war (and I believe the biggest crime is that he was asked to fight there in the first place) the government have a duty to provide soldiers with the equipment they need to do their jobs. They should be aware of the risks when they take the job, but when you put your life on the line the least you expect is to properly equiped. Exactly. They knew the risks but did they know they would have sub-standard equipment that was impractical at best and useless at worst? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Exactly. They knew the risks but did they know they would have sub-standard equipment that was impractical at best and useless at worst? I doubt it. And that is a valid point, but she spent a lot of her time concentrating on his age and how he shouldn't have been there. He volunteered and was old enough. Guys in their 30's and 40's were there as well and dying. Age wasn't the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 And that is a valid point, but she spent a lot of her time concentrating on his age and how he shouldn't have been there. He volunteered and was old enough. Guys in their 30's and 40's were there as well and dying. Age wasn't the issue. Agree with you there. Soldiers know the risks when they sign up. Age should not be an issue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart MacD Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Black Watch is on in Sydney at present. Gets rave reviews. Still, I'm not sure I want to fork out $70 to be depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Black Watch is on in Sydney at present. Gets rave reviews. Still, I'm not sure I want to fork out $70 to be depressed. Is it a theatrical production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Black Watch is on in Sydney at present. Gets rave reviews. Still, I'm not sure I want to fork out $70 to be depressed. Go. You won't regret it, trust me. My wife worked on it and I have seen it 3 times in Edinburgh, LA and New York. Every time it blew me away. You won't be depressed at all. Though you may cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Is it a theatrical production? Yep, one of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yep, one of the best. I'll look out for it when they head back to Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yep, one of the best. Honestly Tazio, I wonder about you and Cosanostra. You always appear at about the same time. I come out in a cold sweat thinking about IJ and Craeg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Honestly Tazio, I wonder about you and Cosanostra. You always appear at about the same time. I come out in a cold sweat thinking about IJ and Craeg. He's not my type. I like my sexual partners with hair. EDIT. Any chance of a bigger signature? And you worry about me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 He's not my type. I like my sexual partners with hair. EDIT. Any chance of a bigger signature? And you worry about me? Skinheads are the shizzle, chicks dig em'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Honestly Tazio, I wonder about you and Cosanostra. You always appear at about the same time. I come out in a cold sweat thinking about IJ and Craeg. Hey Deek, did you see the Irvine Jambo myspace? He's written a blog and everything. http://www.myspace.com/irvinejambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hey Deek, did you see the Irvine Jambo myspace? He's written a blog and everything. http://www.myspace.com/irvinejambo I have had a deek pardon the pun. Dont think my signiture will last long before the mods delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 It is quite large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Big is beautiful as they say, or that is what the ladies tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyPenman Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think she is just one of these people that has become a sort-of unfortunate celebrity because of something horrible happening in her life and now she is tolerated by the public / politicians and is encouraged by the media. People will always look at her and feel deep sympathy for what she's been through so many will grant her an opportunity to speak. It is sad what happened to her son, especially if like she says, her son was so badly equipped that his death was caused due to insufficient technology provided to him by the MOD. So it's maybe not that her son died, just that he died needlessly that makes her want to voice her opinions. That's maybe not a bad thing as I think we'd all agree that if our government are going to send young men to war, they should have an excellent standard or equipment and training. Rose Gentle is Kind of like Leah Betts parents and will probably go on banging her drum until the end of her days so let her I say. If it puts any pressure on the MOD to properly equip soldiers then it's worth it. My Bold: The technology provided was sufficient and actually available, however in the case of the patrol that Gordon Gentle was a member of there had been a falling down in the system ie the kit was available in theatre but hadn't been recovered and refitted to the vehicle prior to leaving the base. There were about half a dozen or so minor failings, in the normal world it's no big thing however in this case it cost some lives (this is information from the official BOI and not newspaper gossip). These things happen unfortunately as any complex electronic equipment only has a limited life span before requiring to be recalibrated/recodified/reconditioned etc to ensure that it is still carrying out the job. In the case of these devices the availability would have to increase about 3 fold to ensure that this doesn't happen again and even then there is no guarantee that it wouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I agree that when someone joins the army they accept the risks - however our soldiers are still entitled to expect our elected politicians to take responsible decisions. The decision to go into Iraq was in my and many other peoples' opinions: 1. based on lies about WMD. 2. illegal and; 3. Has turned out to be probably the most disastrous decision by a British government in living memory in view of the amount of innocent life that has been lost. I've got every sympathy for Rose Gentle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I recall reading about a report recently that condemmed the military's advertising ploys. Could become very important in these debates in the future. I'll try finding it as it was very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyPenman Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I recall reading about a report recently that condemmed the military's advertising ploys. Could become very important in these debates in the future. I'll try finding it as it was very interesting. Proverbial chocolate fireguard in the world of useful debates, commissioned by a Quaker society and using headline figures to try and badly put over their message. The stat about 1 out of every 2 people aged 22 and under leaving does not take into account those that are discharged due to misdemeanors such as drug taking, medical discharges and admin/compassionate discharges. The actual breakdown would show that it is more 1 third that only do the minimum length of service, and that hasn't changed much since the Falklands. The report can be downloaded form the link below, it's called Informed Choice http://www.jrct.org.uk/documents.asp?section=00010006&lib=00030005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I don't know enough about the individual case here so wouldn't comment on that. But Blair and Brown's decision to send our young men and women out there without the equipment required to do their jobs disgusts me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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