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?15m debt - with ?13m owed to Romanov and UBIG


Ryan Gosling

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http://sport.scotsman.com/football/It39s-pay-day-or-grey.4531094.jp

 

In particular, the plan to build a new main stand at Tynecastle, at a cost of around ?50million, is being treated with increasing scepticism.

 

But, while questions have been raised over the financial viability of such a scheme in the current climate for the construction industry, a leading analyst yesterday said that UBIG did at least appear strong enough at present to prop up Hearts, whose current debt is around ?15m. The latest set of company accounts for UBIG show that although the privately-held Lithuanian firm did report a loss for its activities outside of the financial and investment side of its business – the sector potentially most at risk from global economic conditions – it is currently making a profit at net level.

 

http://sport.scotsman.com/heartofmidlothianfc/-Q-amp-A.4530991.jp

 

What do Hearts owe to UBIG?

 

Hearts, who are run as a subsidiary of UBIG when Vladimir Romanov bought the club over, are understood to owe their parent company ?13m.

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The Future's Maroon

Yep, confused me a little too?

 

I know fine well the debt will have dropped a fair bit from when it was last announced....but down to ?15m? I'm a bit dubious on that one I'm affraid?! Hope its right!

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15million in debt?

 

Where did the other 10million (after the 12 million has been converted to shares) go?

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15million in debt?

 

Where did the other 10million (after the 12 million has been converted to shares) go?

 

Have you heard of this guy called Craig Gordon? :)

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Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC

Looks about right.

 

Made a few big player sales in the last year and cut the wage bill considerably.

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Have you heard of this guy called Craig Gordon? :)

 

Big lanky lad?

 

Used to get his mum to cut his sleeves off?

 

Thought we only had 8million for him so far.

 

I suppose add Bednar et all....

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Does that figure make Hearts a more attractive purchase for any willing buyer/buyers ?

 

Possibly.

 

Do I think this figure has been leaked to coax any potential buyers into coming forward ?

 

Probably.

 

 

Assuming this figure is accurate - it is good news.

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Commander Harris

isn't it just still an estimate? we won't know for sure until we have the official accounts for HMFC.

 

Encouraging if accurate though.

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Gordon, Bednar, Pospisil, Velicka (maybe we got the money), money from the Barca game,

 

Add that all up and comes to around ?10m + ?12m converted to stock = ?22m

 

?36m last declared debt less ?22m = ?12m

 

Just rough numbers

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The Future's Maroon
Does that figure make Hearts a more attractive purchase for any willing buyer/buyers ?

 

Possibly.

 

Do I think this figure has been leaked to coax any potential buyers into coming forward ?

 

Probably.

 

 

Assuming this figure is accurate - it is good news.

Funny you mention that, there are some funny rumours developing regarding this very matter....mmmmm?
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It makes sense...

 

36 million

 

- 7 million (intial for Gordon)

 

- 2.5 million (roughly for Bednar

 

- 12 million for the shares

 

 

= 14.5 million! :)

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portobellojambo1
I thought we were 32 odd million in debt?? If it is 15 million then thats not bad goin!!

 

I think the figure being bandied about was ?36 million, if you then take into account the ?12 million debt for equity swap and the additional ?9 million, which I assume relates to the transfer funds received for Craig Gordon and Roman Bednar (neither of which will actually show on paper until the next set of accounts is produced) the figure would seem not a million miles away from

the final figure, which again will not be revealed until the next set of accounts is produced.

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Commander Harris
It's fascinating to note that we all regard the media as gospel when it's good news. ;)

I thought my comment was carefully worded in that regard. :)

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It's fascinating to note that we all regard the media as gospel when it's good news. ;)

 

Indeed. Although, I had thought our debt should be in that range after the 12 million debt to share conversion as well as sales of numerous players. I found it quite worrying that our debt was still sometimes reported around about 25 million despite this.

 

15 million in debt is manageable, and as Drylaw says makes us more sellable than if we were 25 million in debt.

 

White knight, where art though.

 

:P

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Might aswell shift out the likes of Kingston, Berra, Driver and Stewart and our debt will be well under ?10 Million ;)

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I think the figure being bandied about was ?36 million, if you then take into account the ?12 million debt for equity swap and the additional ?9 million, which I assume relates to the transfer funds received for Craig Gordon and Roman Bednar (neither of which will actually show on paper until the next set of accounts is produced) the figure would seem not a million miles away from

the final figure, which again will not be revealed until the next set of accounts is produced.

 

I see, thanks! I always thought the 36 million included the Gordon fee. So when are the next set of accounts due?

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portobellojambo1
I see, thanks! I always thought the 36 million included the Gordon fee. So when are the next set of accounts due?

 

The AGM, which should be early next year, with the accounts being shown for the period ending 31 July 2008.

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Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC
I thought my comment was carefully worded in that regard. :)

 

True.

 

Someone should email them and tell him the staff at Hearts have officially been paid so they can change the shan headline.

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It makes sense...

 

36 million

 

- 7 million (intial for Gordon)

 

- 2.5 million (roughly for Bednar

 

- 12 million for the shares

 

 

= 14.5 million! :)

 

Sorry to put a damper on your carefully calculated figures,

 

but.....................

 

Pinillas wages

 

Pinillas rehabilatation

 

Pinillas hairdresser

 

Pinillas trips to Chille

 

Not to mention Pinillas nails, and were back up to ?36million.

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Commander Harris
Sorry to put a damper on your carefully calculated figures,

 

but.....................

 

Pinillas wages

 

Pinillas rehabilatation

 

Pinillas hairdresser

 

Pinillas trips to Chille

 

Not to mention Pinillas nails, and were back up to ?36million.

he's certainly not looking as good without his HMFC hairdressing allowance. :)

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Sorry to put a damper on your carefully calculated figures,

 

but.....................

 

Pinillas wages

 

Pinillas rehabilatation

 

Pinillas hairdresser

 

Pinillas trips to Chille

 

Not to mention Pinillas nails, and were back up to ?36million.

 

 

 

DAMN! You got me there. I also forgot Beslijas wages...:o

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Geoff Kilpatrick
It's fascinating to note that we all regard the media as gospel when it's good news. ;)

 

Not all of us. It's Stuart Bathgate so I suspend my throwing of hats, scarves and handkerchiefs!

 

I think the figure doesn't take into account any losses accrued for the past financial year, outwith the Gordon and Bednar money.

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Not all of us. It's Stuart Bathgate so I suspend my throwing of hats, scarves and handkerchiefs!

 

I think the figure doesn't take into account any losses accrued for the past financial year, outwith the Gordon and Bednar money.

 

The transfer fees received for players will also be approx 10% lower as players sold under contract get a share of the transfer fee and sometime's a decent slice of it if that was used to entice them to sign a deal in the both player & club will benefit from an expected transfer....I'm sure the taxman will also want a piece of the action in someway?

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These are the figures that any person able to add/subtract could work out!

 

Taking into account the write off by VR of ?12 million and transfer sales it seems about right.

 

This will not please the 'DOOM MERCHANTS' on this board such as Drylaw Hearts, Seige Mentality etc.

 

But I am sure that it wont be long before they come out with yet another negative spin!!!!

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I think the figure being bandied about was ?36 million, if you then take into account the ?12 million debt for equity swap and the additional ?9 million, which I assume relates to the transfer funds received for Craig Gordon and Roman Bednar (neither of which will actually show on paper until the next set of accounts is produced) the figure would seem not a million miles away from

the final figure, which again will not be revealed until the next set of accounts is produced.

 

the 36million figure that has been branded about in the papers recently was from last years accounts! when the share issue was announced it was staed that the sale of players wasnt taken into account(ie. gordon, bednar) so the 36mill the papers loved to through bout hasnt existed for about 6months now!!

 

the usual poop stirring fae the fuds at the daily ******!!

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the 36million figure that has been branded about in the papers recently was from last years accounts! when the share issue was announced it was staed that the sale of players wasnt taken into account(ie. gordon, bednar) so the 36mill the papers loved to through bout hasnt existed for about 6months now!!

 

the usual poop stirring fae the fuds at the daily ******!!

 

e number might not be spot on but its good to see something postive in the media for a change!! no one else agree?

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A story sourced straight from Dexter's research on JKB. Do any of the posters who constantly biatch about Romanov and Hearts on here genuinely think their blinkered "realism" is doing Hearts any good whatsoever?

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These are the figures that any person able to add/subtract could work out!

 

Taking into account the write off by VR of ?12 million and transfer sales it seems about right.

 

This will not please the 'DOOM MERCHANTS' on this board such as Drylaw Hearts, Seige Mentality etc.

But I am sure that it wont be long before they come out with yet another negative spin!!!!

 

Assuming this figure is accurate - it is good news.

 

When I say I think it's good news - it normally indicates that I'm pleased with the news.

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When I say I think it's good news - it normally indicates that I'm pleased with the news.

 

I think that probably needed explained as it has never happened before...

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These figures are just simplistic subtractions of debt - share issue - headline transfer fees received .... there are always other costs such as player/agent fees, depreciation of contract value, tax liability etc as well as the profitablity or loss-making of the company which can increase or reduce debt level ... as someone said earlier we won't know the true figures for the period until audited accounts are produced and even then they will be 6-9 months behind events.

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I think that probably needed explained as it has never happened before...

 

Not true.

 

It's just that folk have already made their mind up before they read my posts that they are negative.

 

That is not my fault or problem.

 

 

A classic example is earlier in this thread.

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These figures are just simplistic subtractions of debt - share issue - headline transfer fees received .... there are always other costs such as player/agent fees, depreciation of contract value, tax liability etc as well as the profitablity or loss-making of the company which can increase or reduce debt level ... as someone said earlier we won't know the true figures for the period until audited accounts are produced and even then they will be 6-9 months behind events.

 

If I had written that NMH - I'd be slaughtered for being negative.

 

 

:)

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On the face of this, it looks to simply be the figures we all knew have been reported in a newspaper.

 

This was the result of the "paper shuffle" thingmy that people didn't like a wee while ago.

 

A quick question, can anybody remember the figure we were in debt before VR came in? I honestly cannot recall it. If it was > ?15m then he has made us better off and appear to be a more attractive investment, if it was < ?15m then he has added a little debt and made us appear a more attractive investment.

 

If I read it correctly that is. :)

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The Mighty Thor

These numbers are back of the fag packet stuff.

 

I think we'll still be closer to 20 million in debt than 12 million.

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Seymour M Hersh
Does that figure make Hearts a more attractive purchase for any willing buyer/buyers ?

 

Possibly.

 

Do I think this figure has been leaked to coax any potential buyers into coming forward ?

 

Probably.

 

 

Assuming this figure is accurate - it is good news.

 

Who do you think he might sell to? A British buyer? Another Russian? Someone else totally? Personally, and I have no information to make this assumption, I would guess a fellow Russian. No matter who it may or may not be (I'm not convinced Vlad is up for selling at the moment) it could be out of the frying pan into the fire for us.

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The numbers as quoted are a bit odd.

 

Did UBIG own debt in Hearts which amounted to ?25m? The debt for equity swap would reduce that to ?13m as quoted in the Scotsman.

 

But at the time of the swap/last accounts didn't both UBIG and Ukio Bankas have separate lending to Hearts in the region of ?12m each? Has Ukio Bankas put its debt to UBIG?

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Right I'm not getting over exited by this news,as in making it easier for someone to buy us.

 

Vlad will want far more than the ?3m or so his company payed for their shares,UBIG will want more than the ?12m they payed for their shares plus we still have ?15m in debt,so you are still looking at around ?32-35m for someone to buy us outright.

 

Vlad will make sure he makes a good wedge out of Hearts,he/they have already made ?3.5m that was unaccounted for.

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marshallschunkychicken
Right I'm not getting over exited by this news,as in making it easier for someone to buy us.

 

Vlad will want far more than the ?3m or so his company payed for their shares,UBIG will want more than the ?12m they payed for their shares plus we still have ?15m in debt,so you are still looking at around ?32-35m for someone to buy us outright.

 

Vlad will make sure he makes a good wedge out of Hearts,he/they have already made ?3.5m that was unaccounted for.

 

What was the unaccounted ?3.5M?

 

Cheers

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Right, I may be way off here, and since I am obviously not in the know about all things financial like ALL our good friends across the city, my take on it is sightly different to everyone elses.

 

It says we are ?15 million in debt and (my take on the above), due UBIG a further ?13million. So are we back to where we were when Romanov took over, at the ?28million mark, or am I picking this up totally wrong?

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Seymour M Hersh
Right I'm not getting over exited by this news,as in making it easier for someone to buy us.

 

Vlad will want far more than the ?3m or so his company payed for their shares,UBIG will want more than the ?12m they payed for their shares plus we still have ?15m in debt,so you are still looking at around ?32-35m for someone to buy us outright.

 

Vlad will make sure he makes a good wedge out of Hearts,he/they have already made ?3.5m that was unaccounted for.

 

I agree, what ever they have invested initially they will want a return on. Also any debt owed directly to them and most important imo they'll want the value of the land (probably now including the school) on top of it all.

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What was the unaccounted ?3.5M?

 

Cheers

 

The money for transfer fees that went amiss when infact there were no transfers,it was mentioned after the last AGM,swept under the carpet as soon as it was mentioned.

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Seymour M Hersh
The money for transfer fees that went amiss when infact there were no transfers,it was mentioned after the last AGM,swept under the carpet as soon as it was mentioned.

 

I think the accountants must be comfortable with as it would be professional suicide to sign off on our annual accounts leaving it unattributed.

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Right, I may be way off here, and since I am obviously not in the know about all things financial like ALL our good friends across the city, my take on it is sightly different to everyone elses.

 

It says we are ?15 million in debt and (my take on the above), due UBIG a further ?13million. So are we back to where we were when Romanov took over, at the ?28million mark, or am I picking this up totally wrong?

 

The point is, we are ?15mill in debt to creditors who will ruthlessly want the cash back.

 

Whereas the UBIG loan is a bit more flexible.

 

It may be reshuffling of debt, but id suggest it saves us a bit in interest.

 

Also, we may be back to where we were when VR took over, but we are moving in the right direction.

 

Even if we were only 1mill better off, it would still be a positive.

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I agree, what ever they have invested initially they will want a return on. Also any debt owed directly to them and most important imo they'll want the value of the land (probably now including the school) on top of it all.

 

TBH Seymour,I have been called a doom merchant and other things but I cannot see any positives at all,turn figures around all day long we are still looking at ?35m to buy us out,not a fecking chance in the current climate.

 

Add to that Vlad still makes well over ?20m from transfer fee's and the likes,robbing barsteward I say.

 

If UBIG do need cash what will be the first to go a factory or a football team running at a huge loss?

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The point is, we are ?15mill in debt to creditors who will ruthlessly want the cash back.

 

Whereas the UBIG loan is a bit more flexible.

 

It may be reshuffling of debt, but id suggest it saves us a bit in interest.

 

Also, we may be back to where we were when VR took over, but we are moving in the right direction.

 

Even if we were only 1mill better off, it would still be a positive.

 

IIRC we were only ?23m in debt when Vlad took over.I say only,ha, FFS.

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