Trams

[david mcgee]

Our beautiful City is about to be ripped apart to make way for trams.

 

Perhaps 2 years disruption is a price worth paying.

 

Do you want them?

What are the pros and cons?

Should the people of Edinburgh, been asked?

Will it come in on budget?

Will it improve the transport network?

Or will it be a disaster?

 

Thoughts?

[neobis]

Our beautiful City is about to be ripped apart to make way for trams.

 

Perhaps 2 years disruption is a price worth paying.

 

Do you want them?

What are the pros and cons?

Should the people of Edinburgh, been asked?

Will it come in on budget?

Will it improve the transport network?

Or will it be a disaster?

 

Thoughts?

 

... from a worried taxi driver.

 

[david mcgee]

... from a worried taxi driver.

 

 

From a personal point of view, as i am not allowed fares from the airport, i dont think it will affect me financially.

It might indeed supply me with more short fares which tend to be more profitable.

It may also accomodate the developement of a second runway at Edinburgh airport which would bring in more tourists which would benefit me.

It will probably also make the City centre a no go zone for cars which will benefit taxi drivers.

So, neobis i am not worried on a personal level.

I do however have major reservations about them for our City.

If you can be bothered thinking about the topic instead of trying to point score, i would welcome your opinion.

[Chaps]

I dont think we need the trams the buses are perfectly IMO fine and the money amount of money that is being spent on the are a joke.

[neobis]

i would welcome your opinion.

 

Thanks.

 

I reserve judgement until they are installed.

 

[Mr Sifter]

If it was an actual tram NETWORK, we might be able to debate the pros and cons.

 

But it aint, its ONE FRIGGIN LINE!

 

When it was initially announced that there was gonna be THREE lines, a study at the time showed that just under 32% of edinburgh citizens would have access to a tram stop (I think "access" was defined as something like being within 800 yards of a stop). So with THREE lines, only ONE THIRD had "access". How many people will have "access" now we are down to ONE line?

 

Its a joke, a farce.

 

In fact, Im gonna leave this thread now, cos I'll just get angry!

[Eric Shin]

feck the trams...just give me a bus to hermiston gate....its not much to ask is it

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Since I live in Leith (I know) I have already felt the full effects of the work going on.

 

An absolute fecking joke, everything ground to a stand still and having to leave 15 minutes earlier for work.

 

Biggest waste of money ever.

[euan64]

Probably because they knew a recession was coming so if they had a project in place it would be able to provide jobs when the recession hits.

[Cade]

Five Hundred Million Pounds.

 

For ONE line.

 

An utterly disgusting waste of money.

 

Edinburgh has one of the best public transport networks in the whole of the UK, so why screw it all up with trams?

Why not just buy longer bendy buses?

 

The whole thing is nothing more than a money laudering scam and the public should not stand for it.

 

The SNP know this and tried to block it but due to massive corruption, the plans were passed.

 

?500million is the budget and any costs over that figure will have to be raised by the City Council......by raising council tax.

 

Analysts have estimated that the full cost will be around ?750million, which means that the entire population of Edinburgh will be facing huge council tax raises to pay for one single tram line that most of us will never ever use.

 

If they think I'm paying the increased tax, they are very sadly mistaken.

 

I'll willingly go to jail rather than fund this ludicrous scheme.

[buzzbomb]

A twee little gimmick for the tourists.

[Toggie88]

The biggest waste of money Scotland has ever seen.

[bigwull22]

yip but the money was designated for the tram system, if we turned it down it would not have been spent on edinburgh

[Ivan Drago]

Edinburghs just jealous of Glasgows underground

[maltese jambo]

all for the trams and all for re-opening the sub (which will never happen)

[chewbacca]

if trams are such a good idea for edinburgh, why did the old ones get ripped up years ago, why weren`t they upgraded year on year?

 

I think it`s a waste of money, especially as the line is gonna run straight up the middle of prince`s street. with a lane of buses firing along on either side of how many old biddies or (bloo*y) tourists are gonna get wiped out gettin on and off? I live in the west of the city but work in little france, thge trams are jus gonna get in my way while goin across the city centre.

 

And don`t start me on the supposed "green" arguement, that it`ll be better for the enviroment, aye mibbe if all the busses disappeerd and we were only left with trams at the click of a finger. But the triple road works (once to find the services in the roads, 2nd to move drains, electrics, water, gas mains, 3rd to lay the tracks) and all the constructoin of the steel itself for the rails etc, plus the continued reliance on busses in every other part of the city..........

 

i squarely believe this is setting our beutifal city for a massive slap in the face with a wet fish. However long it`s supposed to take or cost you can be it`ll run double the cost and at least a year over.

 

disjointed and silly arguements from a man witha serious hash hangover, apologies.

[davemclaren]

if trams are such a good idea for edinburgh, why did the old ones get ripped up years ago, why weren`t they upgraded year on year?

 

I think it`s a waste of money, especially as the line is gonna run straight up the middle of prince`s street. with a lane of buses firing along on either side of how many old biddies or (bloo*y) tourists are gonna get wiped out gettin on and off? I live in the west of the city but work in little france, thge trams are jus gonna get in my way while goin across the city centre.

 

And don`t start me on the supposed "green" arguement, that it`ll be better for the enviroment, aye mibbe if all the busses disappeerd and we were only left with trams at the click of a finger. But the triple road works (once to find the services in the roads, 2nd to move drains, electrics, water, gas mains, 3rd to lay the tracks) and all the constructoin of the steel itself for the rails etc, plus the continued reliance on busses in every other part of the city..........

 

i squarely believe this is setting our beutifal city for a massive slap in the face with a wet fish. However long it`s supposed to take or cost you can be it`ll run double the cost and at least a year over.

 

disjointed and silly arguements from a man witha serious hash hangover, apologies.

 

Hard to predict the future but how many cities that did take the pain and cost of a new tram line(s) now regret it?

[Tams bird]

Waste of money for one line.....

[Craigieboy]

It's coming to an area near you!

 

If I recall, next year, Haymarket/West end will be an absolute disaster area.

 

A lot of my work is around there & I'm dreading it.

 

.

[davemclaren]

Waste of money for one line.....

 

In the context of one line it possibly is. However, once you have the infrastructure in place for one line ( Tram depots, maintenance areas etc.... ) subsequent lines should work out cheaper, you would think.

[beardbeer]

I think trams are great ive used them abroad a few times and thought the trams in gothenburg were the best. I beg anyone who has used trams and went back on bus's say the bus is the best. They are much faster and smoother imo.

I think there is a great deal of disruption being caused by them being put in but so what it needs some bold vision from planners to get change in this city and i think they will work out. Some might say its only 1 line but maybe in the future there will be more put in ?

I dont know how many years edinburgh has been around but a few years disruption while the trams are put in is not alot in the grand scheme of things !

There is a lot of people in the "we fear change brigade" Im not one of them

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I thought the SNP were going to stop it.

 

Just another election promise they have failed to deliver?

[Craigieboy]

I think trams are great ive used them abroad a few times and thought the trams in gothenburg were the best. I beg anyone who has used trams and went back on bus's say the bus is the best. They are much faster and smoother imo.

I think there is a great deal of disruption being caused by them being put in but so what it needs some bold vision from planners to get change in this city and i think they will work out. Some might say its only 1 line but maybe in the future there will be more put in ?

I dont know how many years edinburgh has been around but a few years disruption while the trams are put in is not alot in the grand scheme of things !

There is a lot of people in the "we fear change brigade" Im not one of them

 

Baws!

 

[Toggie88]

I thought the SNP were going to stop it.

 

Just another election promise they have failed to deliver?

 

 

Was forced through by the Unionist coalition.

 

Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems are all to blame for this.

 

 

They are even starting to doubt it. The Torie whip for the council hid it the toilets when the vote was taken place, so I was told.

[Toggie88]

A subway in Edinburgh would be awesome but something to do with the different rock types they can't do it I believe.

 

Glasgow's underground and overground train system is the dugs.

 

Agree completely Borthers, something doesn't seem right when they say the way to fix congestion is too stick a 100ft unmovable train on the road.

 

I also don't buy into the argument that a subway system is impossible. Edinburgh has tunnels running all over it.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Was forced through by the Unionist coalition.

 

Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems are all to blame for this.

 

 

They are even starting to doubt it. The Torie whip for the council hid it the toilets when the vote was taken place, so I was told.

 

Amazing, every time the SNP fail to deliver they blame the "Unionist coalition"

 

Seems to me they are finding out its much harder to lead than shout from across he benches. They are being found out each and every day.

 

I dont think Scotland will make the same mistake.

[Toggie88]

Amazing, every time the SNP fail to deliver they blame the "Unionist coalition"

 

Seems to me they are finding out its much harder to lead than shout from across he benches. They are being found out each and every day.

 

I dont think Scotland will make the same mistake.

 

 

Just keep talking SUSS, your just making yourself look foolish.

 

The Trams were voted for by The Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems. The SNP opposed it.

 

Therefor the Unionist coalition is solely to blame.

 

Hmmmm being found out everyday? Well having approval ratings higher than any other previous government means being found out, let them keep finding.

[beardbeer]

Baws!

 

 

baws yersel ! "TRAMS" best thing since the bread slicer i kid you not !

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Just keep talking SUSS, your just making yourself look foolish.

 

The Trams were voted for by The Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems. The SNP opposed it.

 

Therefor the Unionist coalition is solely to blame.

 

Hmmmm being found out everyday? Well having approval ratings higher than any other previous government means being found out, let them keep finding.

 

So the SNP could not convince one member of the others that the trams were wrong?

 

As for me looking foolish, your the one that thinks the SNP can do no wrong. Your the one who refuses to hear anything against them. Personally i make up my mind on policies on their own merits not just on which party thinks them up.

[Therapist]

So the SNP could not convince one member of the others that the trams were wrong?

 

As for me looking foolish, your the one that thinks the SNP can do no wrong. Your the one who refuses to hear anything against them. Personally i make up my mind on policies on their own merits not just on which party thinks them up.

 

As I've proved many times in the past, Toggie merely regurgitates SNP statements. He does not analyse the situation or make up his own mind. In essence he is a political bigot.

[geddy]

A bloody great waste of money.

The route is nearly the same as the 22 bus which is the most regular service in town!

This smacks of jumped up councillors wanting to make a name for themselves.

Oh and what are they going to do at festival time? Hogmany time? You can re-route buses from Princes Street, but what are their plans for the trams?

Also, if a tram breaks down......thats the whole route stuffed. If a bus breaks down then folk can transfer to another bus that will go ROUND the broken down bus. A bit of a no goer with trams.

Shambles. Another example of waste like the Hollyrood building. The old Royal High School would have been perfect for it, at a fraction of the cost, but Labour demanded a NEW building costing us as tax payers a bloody fortune.

So I am very opposed to the tram line. I hardly know anyone who lives here who wants it.......so we are not important to these erses who voted for it.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

As I've proved many times in the past, Toggie merely regurgitates SNP statements. He does not analyse the situation or make up his own mind. In essence he is a political bigot.

 

Funny you should say that, i had typed "Too many political bigots on this board" in my message but took it out before i posted as i thought i was maybe being a bit harsh.

 

Seems i may not be the only one that feels this about some of our more vocal SNP supporters.

 

Which i find a shame, debating politics can be eye-opening and enlightening but never with someone whos mind is made up and closed.

[Therapist]

Toggie is still young. One day he may develop the type of analytical skills and reasoning powers that you and I so clearly possess.

[Tazio]

And didn't the recent SNP budget recommendations go through with the backing of the Conservatives?

 

So in essence the arch unionists of the Conservative party be used to back up the SNP when they want it?

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Toggie is still young. One day he may develop the type of analytical skills and reasoning powers that you and I so clearly possess.

 

Either that or go onto have a great career in news reading, they way he reads the statements from the snp and regurgitates it would lead me to believe he is predisposed to a career involving a teleprompter.

[Toggie88]

As I've proved many times in the past, Toggie merely regurgitates SNP statements. He does not analyse the situation or make up his own mind. In essence he is a political bigot.

 

Whose to blame for the Trams, Therapist?

 

Not the SNP.

 

I can be disgruntled at SNP policy, but as you 'should' know - going on a public forum shouting about your gripes with a party you are a member of, is just plain stupid. Thought you would have understood that.

 

Straws. Clutching. At.

[Toggie88]

And didn't the recent SNP budget recommendations go through with the backing of the Conservatives?

 

So in essence the arch unionists of the Conservative party be used to back up the SNP when they want it?

 

I personally find it refreshing that even the Conservatives are able to see pro's of the SNP budget.

 

Out of all the other parties in the Scots Parliament (with the exception of the Greens) the Tories are the one's I have most respect for. Labour are a bunch of west coast neds and the lib dems couldn't sort their arse from their elbow.

[Toggie88]

So the SNP could not convince one member of the others that the trams were wrong?

 

As for me looking foolish, your the one that thinks the SNP can do no wrong. Your the one who refuses to hear anything against them. Personally i make up my mind on policies on their own merits not just on which party thinks them up.

 

It's called Party Politics.

[Therapist]

Whose to blame for the Trams, Therapist?

 

I quite like the idea of trams so "blame" doesn't come into it as far as I'm concerned.

 

Whoever took the decision in the 50s or whenever to axe the trams was guilty of serious short-sightedness.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I personally find it refreshing that even the Conservatives are able to see pro's of the SNP budget.

 

Out of all the other parties in the Scots Parliament (with the exception of the Greens) the Tories are the one's I have most respect for. Labour are a bunch of west coast neds and the lib dems couldn't sort their arse from their elbow.

 

So the Unionist conspirators only conspire every other day?

[blairdin]

Whoever took the decision in the 50s or whenever to axe the trams was guilty of serious short-sightedness.

 

Don't want to get into the politics of this, but I am comfortable enough with the view that IF the Edinburgh trams go tits up, the SNP are not to blame.

 

It was not short sighted axing the trams.

 

The Beeching cuts of the 1960s that closed all Edinburgh's suburban rail lines was short sighted.

[Therapist]

It was not short sighted axing the trams.

 

The excellent transport systems of other European cities that feature trams at their heart would suggest otherwise.

[beardbeer]

The excellent transport systems of other European cities that feature trams at their heart would suggest otherwise.

 

Agree

[CompleteIdiot]

I quite like the idea of trams so "blame" doesn't come into it as far as I'm concerned.

 

Whoever took the decision in the 50s or whenever to axe the trams was guilty of serious short-sightedness.

 

That would be your beloved Tories who were doing a favour to big oil.

[Therapist]

That would be your beloved Tories

 

I've never voted Conservative in my life.

[davemclaren]

I've never voted Conservative in my life.

 

We won't ask.......

[Therapist]

We won't ask.......

 

Correct Dave. One's vote is one's personal business and should remain confidential.

[CompleteIdiot]

Don't want to get into the politics of this, but I am comfortable enough with the view that IF the Edinburgh trams go tits up, the SNP are not to blame.

 

It was not short sighted axing the trams.

 

The Beeching cuts of the 1960s that closed all Edinburgh's suburban rail lines was short sighted.

 

That is the fundamental point. The trams the were dumped in the 1950s were just buses on rails. They were not faster than a bus and the infrastructure cost a lot to maintain.

 

The train services in Edinburgh were rapid transit but just didn't go where people wanted to go. Ironically, the lifted tracks lead to places where people do want to go now e.g. Ocean Terminal and other Waterfront locations - as well as providing links to major commuter towns such as Haddington.

 

Instead of using this resource, ?600m is being used to replace the 22 bus with a tram. The 22 bus is probably the best bus service in Edinburgh. The people that use it don't have much of a choice anyway. Forcing people that have to use a bus onto a tram, for no obvious benefit, seems idiotic to me.

[davemclaren]

That is the fundamental point. The trams the were dumped in the 1950s were just buses on rails. They were not faster than a bus and the infrastructure cost a lot to maintain.

 

The train services in Edinburgh were rapid transit but just didn't go where people wanted to go. Ironically, the lifted tracks lead to places where people do want to go now e.g. Ocean Terminal and other Waterfront locations as well as providing links to major commuter towns such as Haddington.

 

Instead of using this resource, ?600m is being used to replace the 22 bus with a tram. The 22 bus is probably the best bus service in Edinburgh. The people that use it don't have much of a choice anyway. Forcing people that have to use a bus onto a tram, for no obvious benefit, seems idiotic to me.

 

 

It was probably a Doctor that thought up the Trams idea.

[geddy]

Trams can be very nice. I have been on many in other places.

However, my problem as I have said before, is the cost of 1, yes thats ONE line. A route covered excellently by a bus service. If you believe that this will not result in a cut back on bus services round the town then I think you who are speaking up for it are naive.

If as a city we had money to spare then yup, I would not object. However there are so many other things that need money spent on them that affect more of the population.

The majority of folk who live/work/pay their council tax do not feel it is value for money or indeed needed. This lot of chancers do not care what we as tax payers want. As stated SNP said no to them. SNP had the majority vote (doesn't matter the % as both main parties in London have benefitted for years from the system without complaining so really have no authority to do so now) but were stopped from doing what the public voted for them to do.

So the blame for this is with Labour and Lib Dems in this parliament.