Have the referees broken football?

[Diadora Van Basten]

It’s not just the handball rule that Collum has misinterpreted the bar for DOGSO is far too low resulting in random red cards that ruin the game. 

[Erik]

BTW…. Collum is getting off lightly. There are two highly controversial calls that just aren’t being talked about enough. 
 

The Longelo hand ball is one of them. For me this is the most obvious penalty of all - and it’s one that’s being ignored across the board as being a correct call. No VAR intervention, KMI panel unanimously saying no penalty and Collum saying clear hand ball. This is scandalous on all levels. It’s by far the most blatant and obvious penalty of the three being talked about. 
 

The other issue he’s totally avoided is the clear and blatant elbow smash by Scales in the Celtic Motherwell game. This was unquestionably a red card offence. And again, it’s just not being talked about. 
 

That offence came after just 20mins of the game. At a time when Celtic were 1-0 down. 
 

70 minutes to go, a man down and a goal down is a very different outlook - that’s another massively game changing moment which has been totally missed and totally ignored. 

[August Landmesser]

2 hours ago, Bill Sikes said:

The little cabal of referees clearly ruin the game, there a handful that get all the important games and there's hardly a game goes by without any controversy alluded to them. 

Its been the same for what seems like decades with the current crop.

 

You see Beaton on the team sheet, you know its a stop start game and he'll ruin it before kick off, he loves the abuse, he encourages it ffs. 

Walsh is not far different, but loses total control usually after about 20 minutes. 

McLean is another who loses the plot.

Clancy is probably the only one that actually looks like he is in control and he's just as Shit as the others.

 

Thats the referee choice we see, they must get 4 or 5 of our games every season, thats horrendous.

Clancy usually lets the game flow, but accidentally, as he's one of the least observant fkrs in the game. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him live or on telly looking straight at an incident and then not seeing or registering it. The man's a dope.

 

And he looks like ET

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

7 minutes ago, Erik said:

BTW…. Collum is getting off lightly. There are two highly controversial calls that just aren’t being talked about enough. 
 

The Longelo hand ball is one of them. For me this is the most obvious penalty of all - and it’s one that’s being ignored across the board as being a correct call. No VAR intervention, KMI panel unanimously saying no penalty and Collum saying clear hand ball. This is scandalous on all levels. It’s by far the most blatant and obvious penalty of the three being talked about. 
 

The other issue he’s totally avoided is the clear and blatant elbow smash by Scales in the Celtic Motherwell game. This was unquestionably a red card offence. And again, it’s just not being talked about. 
 

That offence came after just 20mins of the game. At a time when Celtic were 1-0 down. 
 

70 minutes to go, a man down and a goal down is a very different outlook - that’s another massively game changing moment which has been totally missed and totally ignored. 

Excellent post and totally agree.

 

[Polonia Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Erik said:

BTW…. Collum is getting off lightly. There are two highly controversial calls that just aren’t being talked about enough. 
 

The Longelo hand ball is one of them. For me this is the most obvious penalty of all - and it’s one that’s being ignored across the board as being a correct call. No VAR intervention, KMI panel unanimously saying no penalty and Collum saying clear hand ball. This is scandalous on all levels. It’s by far the most blatant and obvious penalty of the three being talked about. 
 

The other issue he’s totally avoided is the clear and blatant elbow smash by Scales in the Celtic Motherwell game. This was unquestionably a red card offence. And again, it’s just not being talked about. 
 

That offence came after just 20mins of the game. At a time when Celtic were 1-0 down. 
 

70 minutes to go, a man down and a goal down is a very different outlook - that’s another massively game changing moment which has been totally missed and totally ignored. 

Awful decision!! Collum said this can vary from country to country. Handball offence is a handball! How they are getting away with what happened in those last 2/3 weeks is absolutely minging!! What on earth did O'Neil say to him?

[kevin_sectionE]

Just now, August Landmesser said:

Clancy usually lets the game flow, but accidentally, as he's one of the least observant fkrs in the game. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him live or on telly looking straight at an incident and then not seeing or registering it. The man's a dope.

 

And he looks like ET

Clancy is actually the best ref for the very reason you stated. Too shite to be incompetent just a mixed bag.

 

Least hes more honest...kinda

[Diadora Van Basten]

9 minutes ago, Erik said:

BTW…. Collum is getting off lightly. There are two highly controversial calls that just aren’t being talked about enough. 
 

The Longelo hand ball is one of them. For me this is the most obvious penalty of all - and it’s one that’s being ignored across the board as being a correct call. No VAR intervention, KMI panel unanimously saying no penalty and Collum saying clear hand ball. This is scandalous on all levels. It’s by far the most blatant and obvious penalty of the three being talked about. 
 

The other issue he’s totally avoided is the clear and blatant elbow smash by Scales in the Celtic Motherwell game. This was unquestionably a red card offence. And again, it’s just not being talked about. 
 

That offence came after just 20mins of the game. At a time when Celtic were 1-0 down. 
 

70 minutes to go, a man down and a goal down is a very different outlook - that’s another massively game changing moment which has been totally missed and totally ignored. 

The Slattery non penalty when he appears to be tripped by McGregor as well not covered on the VAR show

[August Landmesser]

Just now, kevin_sectionE said:

Clancy is actually the best ref for the very reason you stated. Too shite to be incompetent just a mixed bag.

 

Least hes more honest...kinda

Exactly, like Mr Bean reffing a game, just bumbling through annoying everyone. Not skilled enough to be a cheat

[ArcticJambo]

3 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

The Slattery non penalty when he appears to be tripped by McGregor as well not covered on the VAR show

 

I spent a lot of time on that one, and thought about posting on it but my conclusion was that it was 'inconclusive' much that I didnt want it to be, if I was trying to be 100% objective.  MacGregor's reaction is a an ohh ****, not me! Even slowed down it's not 100% that he took his foot as opposed to slipped at exactly the same time.

[Diadora Van Basten]

 

1 minute ago, ArcticJambo said:

 

I spent a lot of time on that one, and thought about posting on it but my conclusion was that it was 'inconclusive' much that I didnt want it to be, if I was trying to be 100% objective.  MacGregor's reaction is a an ohh ****, not me! Even slowed down it's not 100% that he took his foot as opposed to slipped at exactly the same time.

Agreed it looked like it must have been a penalty but it wasn’t conclusive and Slattery does like a dive. 

[ArcticJambo]

3 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

 

Agreed it looked like it must have been a penalty but it wasn’t conclusive and Slattery does like a dive. 

Sort of like in cricket if youre the bowler early on in the  game and your wickie calls for an lbw but you don't as it's close but not 100% so you take the moral high ground and get him on the next one, and the ump is with you after that! You're like best buds now.  what are the chances with our football refs, unless you're dressed in hoops! 

[Erik]

15 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

The Slattery non penalty when he appears to be tripped by McGregor as well not covered on the VAR show

Yeah, I was torn on that one - personally think it woulda been soft. 
 

But…. It’s stuff like this which makes the VAR ‘statistics’ which get flung about totally meaningless, because they don’t include the stuff they got away with, such as the red card. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

2 hours ago, McQ said:

That was my impression... an overexcited evening in the monkey enclosure.

 

Like... we've found something,  we've found something!!!

 

I realise that VAR has evolved, but when it was brought in, I recall that the justification was to avoid the refereeing clangers. Like Thierry Henry against Ireland.

 

Those VAR room clips for Motherwell v Celtic were an embarrassment.

Last chance saloon, they had 8 seconds to do so, after 10 mins of stress, since Mwell equalised.

Hence the "excitement". I think it was more nervous energy. He knew this was one and only chance. Beaton took 20 secs to submit. Almost like he was expecting an incident to be referred, and knew the audio was being recorded.

[upgotheheads]

30 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Last chance saloon, they had 8 seconds to do so, after 10 mins of stress, since Mwell equalised.

Hence the "excitement". I think it was more nervous energy. He knew this was one and only chance. Beaton took 20 secs to submit. Almost like he was expecting an incident to be referred, and knew the audio was being recorded.

 

I think it was as much about Beaton's weakness as Dallas's bias. The Dallas dynasty  has clout in the reefering world, while Beaton doesn't  Dallas pretty well instructed Beaton to give the penalty, and Beaton didn't have the balls to  stand up to him.

Edited June 3 by upgotheheads

[Cruyff]

Ultimately VAR has cleared up the majority of decisions. However, if the referees cannot apply the rules fairly and consistently then they are the problem. 

 

On the flip side, we need referees. We need more referees, they are a crucial part of the game. Yeah, they make mistakes, sometimes honest ones but they have essentially cost us a title and their incompetence has shown them in a negative light. Ultimately no one is going to want to be a referee in those circumstances. Not one who is doing it for the love of the game and fairness of competition. The ones that are doing it imo, do so to ensure the status quo and that is the issue in Scotland. I think it's been blatant for a long time. Too many instances of bias, favourable decisions over the years to think it's just shit refereeing. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

The slattery / macgregor one, would that have been given the other way?

[Maple Leaf]

6 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

Scottish referees have ruined Scottish football. Too many of them have known club connections especially Beaton And the Dallas family.

 

6 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Yes, they have in Scotland.

 

The solution is total hostility till they run away and need to be replaced. 

I agree, but I doubt if things will change in Scotland.  The SFA have created the current set-up and they will fight tooth and nail to preserve it.

[Aussie Jambo]

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The latest "Ref's View" podcast is worth a listen as they discuss wee Wullie's VAR review.  I know that some people view Steve Conroy and Des Roache as anti SFA establishment, but for a couple of Celtic minded ex-refs their views on the recent incidents are pretty fair.

 

 

This hits the nail on the head. Glad someone is doing something that we all know. 

[gordon simpson]

15 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

Scottish referees have ruined Scottish football. Too many of them have known club connections especially Beaton And the Dallas family.

this in a nutshell,something needs to be done for the sake of our game 

[McQ]

10 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Last chance saloon, they had 8 seconds to do so, after 10 mins of stress, since Mwell equalised.

Hence the "excitement". I think it was more nervous energy. He knew this was one and only chance. Beaton took 20 secs to submit. Almost like he was expecting an incident to be referred, and knew the audio was being recorded.

8 seconds to save Celtic's season.

[Chairman of the Bored]

9 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Ultimately VAR has cleared up the majority of decisions. However, if the referees cannot apply the rules fairly and consistently then they are the problem. 

 

On the flip side, we need referees. We need more referees, they are a crucial part of the game. Yeah, they make mistakes, sometimes honest ones but they have essentially cost us a title and their incompetence has shown them in a negative light. Ultimately no one is going to want to be a referee in those circumstances. Not one who is doing it for the love of the game and fairness of competition. The ones that are doing it imo, do so to ensure the status quo and that is the issue in Scotland. I think it's been blatant for a long time. Too many instances of bias, favourable decisions over the years to think it's just shit refereeing. 

Just get each team’s manager to ref a half like at school football. Genuinely couldn’t be any worse than having the SFA folk doing it. 

[TexasAndy]

For me it’s not so much that they have broken football it’s more a case of anytime there’s a sign of life in Scottish Football they endeavour to pull the life support so as to maintain the status quo.  Scottish Football is mediocre at best, why would anyone defend that mediocrity so eagerly and blatantly ? 🤷‍♂️

[kevin_sectionE]

Just now, TexasAndy said:

For me it’s not so much that they have broken football it’s more a case of anytime there’s a sign of life in Scottish Football they endeavour to pull the life support so as to maintain the status quo.  Scottish Football is mediocre at best, why would anyone defend that mediocrity so eagerly and blatantly ? 🤷‍♂️

Cause there's a sick love in for celtic in the same way a dog loves to scratch it's flees

[Ricardo Quaresma]

14 hours ago, Spellczech said:

I certainly hope they don't literally mean T-shirt line because some T-shirts are long-sleeved...

 

They've made a right mess of interpreting the rules of football, and they've done this wilfully in trying to justify wrong calls and satisfy the OF's demands.

 

We still have the situation where the officials are NOT getting the big decisions right. They never will if they take 20 seconds to review the most important call of the entire season! Sometimes they don't even get it right retrospectively like with Collum himself in the last week. A raised hand where the arm has been bumped by the jumping from below challenge of an opponent is not making the body a larger object, even moreso if it is in front of the face, and being in front of the face is allowed anyway - you are no longer expected to take ball to face like Murdo McLeod famously did for Scotland. There was no reason for Nicholson to want to use his arm rather than his head... Besides, the ball clearly came off a forehead not an arm. He also ignores that Dallas was wrong to claim a clear and obvious error. Collum ignores all this. The man is a dangerously arrogant incompetent.

 

wullie column was blatantly scared of septic fans way over a decade ago and We won't be blowing septic away 4-0 anytime real soon, at least not on a regular basis, so something has to be done

 

If We simply get rid of wullie column and the misfits, the next batch will be freshly intimidated before any length of time

 

The only solution is to ensure order and break the green loony machine

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, gordon simpson said:

this in a nutshell,something needs to be done for the sake of our game 

 

2 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

For me it’s not so much that they have broken football it’s more a case of anytime there’s a sign of life in Scottish Football they endeavour to pull the life support so as to maintain the status quo.  Scottish Football is mediocre at best, why would anyone defend that mediocrity so eagerly and blatantly ? 🤷‍♂️

 

They big thing now is to keep the topic alive into next season, with banners, t-shirts and targeted abuse of the worst culprits.

[Hømme]

Keep seeing all the incidents referred to as bad decisions.

 

To me it is calculated actions / inaction.

 

Bad decisions would actually be more acceptable. Bad decisions happen in life.

[Ex member of the SaS]

The simple answer is for Hearts to bring out a strip with 3/4 arm length shirts. Shirts that go below the elbow or full length to the wrist. Never get a hand ball against ever again. The is always malicious compliance in every rule.

[Ex member of the SaS]

The question they need to ask is. Had the Celtic hand ball penalty happened at the other end at the same time in the game would VaR get involved, would they send the ref to the monitor? We ALL know the answer.

[Ex member of the SaS]

4 hours ago, Aussie Jambo said:

This hits the nail on the head. Glad someone is doing something that we all know. 

These guys are saying Gollum has told them if the ref is called to VaR then the ref must give it. Well McLean never did he? VaR was really really clear " I am stopping the game for a clear penalty on Kyzi " yet the ref look and said no. Worse still he claimed there was contact ( penalty ) but not enough contact. Well just how much contact is required?

[Aussie Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

These guys are saying Gollum has told them if the ref is called to VaR then the ref must give it. Well McLean never did he? VaR was really really clear " I am stopping the game for a clear penalty on Kyzi " yet the ref look and said no. Worse still he claimed there was contact ( penalty ) but not enough contact. Well just how much contact is required?

As they say. Diet VAR. 
I agree that the standards of refereeing in Scotland s is bad compared to England which is vastly different. Someone said on a thread that they think they love to be in the limelight and be the most important things on the field. We know that’s the problem. That and being absolutely terrible at being a ref and having no idea about the game in general. Collum or WillieWankas GFA show he comes out with some complete rubbish. These boys pick the bones of the said rubbish. That’s what I liked. 

[McQ]

52 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The question they need to ask is. Had the Celtic hand ball penalty happened at the other end at the same time in the game would VaR get involved, would they send the ref to the monitor? We ALL know the answer.

You're right... there would have been not a single peep.

 

That's the acid test.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Listening to the pod cast above they are saying that is was a Motherwell throw and they gave it to Celtic. Just another pin to stick them with.

[gordon simpson]

3 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

They big thing now is to keep the topic alive into next season, with banners, t-shirts and targeted abuse of the worst culprits.

[pettigrewsstylist]

5 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

For me it’s not so much that they have broken football it’s more a case of anytime there’s a sign of life in Scottish Football they endeavour to pull the life support so as to maintain the status quo.  Scottish Football is mediocre at best, why would anyone defend that mediocrity so eagerly and blatantly ? 🤷‍♂️

Faces in the trough. 🐖🐖🐖🐽🐽

[pettigrewsstylist]

18 hours ago, Erik said:

BTW…. Collum is getting off lightly. There are two highly controversial calls that just aren’t being talked about enough. 
 

The Longelo hand ball is one of them. For me this is the most obvious penalty of all - and it’s one that’s being ignored across the board as being a correct call. No VAR intervention, KMI panel unanimously saying no penalty and Collum saying clear hand ball. This is scandalous on all levels. It’s by far the most blatant and obvious penalty of the three being talked about. 
 

The other issue he’s totally avoided is the clear and blatant elbow smash by Scales in the Celtic Motherwell game. This was unquestionably a red card offence. And again, it’s just not being talked about. 
 

That offence came after just 20mins of the game. At a time when Celtic were 1-0 down. 
 

70 minutes to go, a man down and a goal down is a very different outlook - that’s another massively game changing moment which has been totally missed and totally ignored. 

There was a gif somwhere of the scales elbow....anyone still got??

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, McQ said:

You're right... there would have been not a single peep.

 

That's the acid test.

There wasnt a peep from hordes behind goal, bench or players. I heard that even impartial Sutton looked at it 6 times on TV commentary and only mentioned elbow. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Only the blind cant see whats going on.

[ollie2004]

23 hours ago, Triggers Broom said:

There has not been one ref in my 30 odd years of supporting Hearts in Scotland who has been fair and had a good reputation. 
 

VAR in Scotland is the absolute pits, look at the EPL VAR miles better than Scotland yet they are unhappy with it down south,

 

VAR in Scotland should be overseen by another football association or a company offshore with no affiliations or links to any team in Scotland , Scottish refs should all be full time, being part time in 2026 is a joke and is one of the many issues this country has with this game.

 

The SFA ruin absolutely everything they touch or oversee 

 

Pyramid preventing anything new a good few teams in the lowland league who would come into the football league and do much better than your Forfar and Elgins.
 

National Stadium is a toilet with no sign of redevelopment. 
 

No league expansion 

 

and these pathetic refs that’s only a few to mention.

The EPL and Rugby Union VAR and TMO respectively are good examples of refs reviewing issues. Both give fans and players audio of their decisions after having advised respective captains. These decisions are perhaps not always accepted but no one is left in any doubt why the referee has reached the decision.

[Robbo-Jambo]

3 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

There wasnt a peep from hordes behind goal, bench or players. I heard that even impartial Sutton looked at it 6 times on TV commentary and only mentioned elbow. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Only the blind cant see whats going on.

In a nutshell. 

 

Not one person in the stadium claimed for it. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, ollie2004 said:

The EPL and Rugby Union VAR and TMO respectively are good examples of refs reviewing issues. Both give fans and players audio of their decisions after having advised respective captains. These decisions are perhaps not always accepted but no one is left in any doubt why the referee has reached the decision.

I've mentioned this before but you can't have refs announcing their decisions to fans because everyone (tv and all) would immediately notice that all refs had weegie accents.

[kevin_sectionE]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I've mentioned this before but you can't have refs announcing their decisions to fans because everyone (tv and all) would immediately notice that all refs had weegie accents.

Clancy would phone home

[gt136]

Scales, should have seen red at Celtic park when we beat them & again in game v Motherwell, I’m sure there’s another one, as well, these are game / league changing errors but let’s face it, if you were to list them all, it’d be as long as war & peace 

[Triggers Broom]

46 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I've mentioned this before but you can't have refs announcing their decisions to fans because everyone (tv and all) would immediately notice that all refs had weegie accents.

JOHN JOHN JOHN stoap the match it’s Andrew I’m on Shaun’s mic can you hear me PENALTY.

[Triggers Broom]

19 minutes ago, gt136 said:

Scales, should have seen red at Celtic park when we beat them & again in game v Motherwell, I’m sure there’s another one, as well, these are game / league changing errors but let’s face it, if you were to list them all, it’d be as long as war & peace 

That wee freak show inbred Canadian should have been sent packing against us. 

[Erik]

16 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

There wasnt a peep from hordes behind goal, bench or players. I heard that even impartial Sutton looked at it 6 times on TV commentary and only mentioned elbow. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Only the blind cant see whats going on.

The same Chris Sutton who wants us all to believe it was a clear obvious and blatant handball….. watches it 3 or 4 times with the same angles Beaton has, thinking it’s an elbow, before finally deciding ‘ohhhh MAYBE there’s a handball in there’ 

 

 

[sac]

In reply to the OP, I’d say the OF have broken Scottish football by trying to outdo each other, and the use of terrorism and intimidation against officials is the weapon that’s being deployed to gain the upper hand. 
Those in green are the main culprits as past and recent events have shown.

Rule by fear. Terrorise everyone to gain an advantage, even the people who run their own club, all under the watch of the cowards at the GFA, who turn & look the other way.

[kevin_sectionE]

We need foreign refs. Not difficult to fly them in .

[davemclaren]

5 hours ago, kevin_sectionE said:

We need foreign refs. Not difficult to fly them in .

How many have you checked with?

[kevin_sectionE]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

How many have you checked with?

None.  Was referring to the strike that happened in 2010s and the fact that we only need a few given there's only 6 prem games a week tops.

[davemclaren]

Just now, kevin_sectionE said:

None.  Was referring to the strike that happened in 2010s and the fact that we only need a few given there's only 6 prem games a week tops.

Doing it  a short period is very different from doing it permanently in terms of practicality and cost. 

[Dennis Denuto]

15 minutes ago, kevin_sectionE said:

None.  Was referring to the strike that happened in 2010s and the fact that we only need a few given there's only 6 prem games a week tops.

You think it is impossible in a population of 5M we can't find 30 or decent, competent and not bent officials? Is everyone going to give Celtic everything they ask for?