Red card?

[OTT]

8 minutes ago, fatjambo said:

For me it's a red card,no attempt to play the ball,take one for the team and get on with it.

 

The rationale behind the red card is really important though, if its DOGSO, are we really saying you can be denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity THAT far from goal? Remember, this builds precedent.. 

 

The volume of work Muirhead needs to do is huge and then, he needs to actually hold his nerve if he's even fast enough to outpace Altena who is racing back and already over the halfway line when the foul finishes, whilst controlling a ball (whereas all Altena needs to do is bomb back).

 

In the below video clip, Darrell Currie mentioned about speaking to a top tier (champions league standard) ref who said around DOGSO, that the criteria around it being obvious is that they have a more than 50% chance of scoring. Muirhead has maybe a 10% chance if that, assuming everything goes his way. Altena is bearing down on him, Big Alex will charge out of his goal to close down the angle, Leonard is hot on his heels (assuming he doesn't foul), and then there is the reality that Muirhead needs to take a heavy touch to maintain his speed, does he **** it up and hit it too close to Alex in goals? Probably.. Christ, our players get more wrong that right, so the idea of a Livingston forward perfectly executing a breakaway attack with a huge amount of work to do himself, and all that time to overthink everything... its laughable to call that DOGSO IMO. 

 

Really good debate about it here which highlights a lot of the concerns about how ridiculous it is to be sending someone off in these circumstances;

 

Willie Collum has completely ****ed up the interpretation of DOGSO and is making our refs look like even more rank amatuers. Even Hutton doesn't think you're getting sent off in the Premier league for that... He needs to be removed from post ASAP. No preserving his dignity, actually sacked and someone credible from England brought in. Sick of the West Coast musical chairs around who gets to head up the refs...

 

 

[Saint Jambo]

10 minutes ago, alfamonkey said:

Yet another bottom line on this (theres been a few in this thread) is that this is a hugely subjective area, despite the guidance and laws, and there have been some debatable high profile DOGSOs given this year (for and against us), that the VARs are bricking themselves to give anything other than the easy option which is a Red.  DOGSOs are this years ball coming off the body or foot and subsequently hitting hands.

 

Cue lots of 'clarification' in the post season briefings to clubs on DOGSO offences.

 

 

Were any of the debateable DOGSOs before the Trusty red card? I don't remember any of them. The mania over the Trusty red card and lots of pundits lining up to explain it shouldn't have been red is incredible when we now see what is being given as red (not just against Hearts) with not a peep from the pundits. Celtic made a stink because they can't cope with legitimate decisions going against them and now the rest of us have to put up with terrible refereeing decisions for a couple of years until the hysteria dies down.

 

The handball issue it reminds me of was when Celtic weren't given a penalty at Tynecastle when the ball hit Michael Smith's arm as he was twisting in 2022. Celtic kicked up a huge stink then too. For the rest of the season every time the ball so much as grazed an arm in the box it was given as a penalty. Celtic chiefs asked SFA for answers over VAR's Hearts Michael Smith 'handball' decision | Football Scotland

 

The appeal will be denied. 

[Mikey1874]

No Leonard for Motherwell it is then.

 

Maybe have to do a points deduction if Hearts win the league.

[siegementality]

This red card, and its subsequent failed appeal, is why Scottish football is a complete embarrassment.

 

The game - in Scotland - is well and truly fecked. 

[Bernard Sumner]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

No Leonard for Motherwell it is then.

 

Maybe have to do a points deduction if Hearts win the league.

Wouldn’t put anything past them and I expect a couple of contentious red cards for us in our remaining games and a no red card for an opposition player who denies a Hearts player a goal scoring opportunity in a similar situation that Leonard was in. 

[Bernard Sumner]

4 minutes ago, siegementality said:

This red card, and its subsequent failed appeal, is why Scottish football is a complete embarrassment.

 

The game - in Scotland - is well and truly fecked. 

Spot on 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Babertonhearts said:

Aye won't be appealed right enough.

I also said it was a waste of time, unfortunately. 

[CaptainJambo]

Tim hat on, but like the Trusty one, the on field referee got the decision correct.

 

VAR are re refereeing the game. Absolute joke.

[Diego10]

Can't wait for Maeda to knock a ball past McEntee and get fouled  75 yards from goal on the wing for a red card at Celtic Park.

 

 

[Hømme]

For me it was a red. Cynical as you like. Just plain cheating actually. 

 

Allows us to get Beni back in the side and in turn hopefully get the best of Cammy.

[Mikey1874]

Just now, CaptainJambo said:

Tim hat on, but like the Trusty one, the on field referee got the decision correct.

 

VAR are re refereeing the game. Absolute joke.

 

Muirhead only had the pace to try to take the ball to the corner. Not getting anywhere near the goal. Tackled 40 yards out.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Never a red but happy to see Beni back in the side hopefully.

[Diego10]

1 minute ago, Hømme said:

For me it was a red. Cynical as you like. Just plain cheating actually. 

 

Allows us to get Beni back in the side and in turn hopefully get the best of Cammy.

Was it any more cynical than Smith on Kyziridis?  Cause it wasn't much more of a goalscoring opportunity 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Hømme said:

For me it was a red. Cynical as you like. Just plain cheating actually. 

 

Allows us to get Beni back in the side and in turn hopefully get the best of Cammy.

 

So if it helps win the league, Leonard is a hero.

 

Or you can say it was unfair Hearts won the league. 

[CaptainJambo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Muirhead only had the pace to try to take the ball to the corner. Not getting anywhere near the goal. Tackled 40 yards out.

Agreed and that is why the on field decision of yellow was correct.

[Robbo-Jambo]

Just farcical. 

 

Red card in your own half ffs. 

[Mikey1874]

Overall it probably won't be a precedent but interesting to look back over the games. 

 

Could be a hundred similar incidents.

Edited Wednesday at 17:46 by Mikey1874

[bertracoon]

5 minutes ago, Hømme said:

For me it was a red. Cynical as you like. Just plain cheating actually. 

 

Allows us to get Beni back in the side and in turn hopefully get the best of Cammy.

That's not the rules though. Never has been. 

[Der Kaiser]

VAR shouldn't have been involved. Wasn't a DOGSO as too far out an Jordi is level with him in the centre of the pitch.

 

As cynical as it is i bet it would have been treated differently if Leonard had just deliberately clipped his heels which we see in football every single week.

[Ron Burgundy]

Mate just texted saying appeal chucked out 🤷🏻‍♂️

[fast_blood]

9 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Mate just texted saying appeal chucked out 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yep was reported by Barry Anderson a while ago now. Ridiculous.

[Babertonhearts]

Only in Scotland.

[MarkDevriesScores4]

I was surprised we even appealed it. Given the standard of other “possible goal scoring opportunities” I’ve seen this season, it was always gonna be a red. Do I agree with it? No. Is it the standard that’s been set? Yes

[Dougie Masterton]

14 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

VAR shouldn't have been involved. Wasn't a DOGSO as too far out an Jordi is level with him in the centre of the pitch.

 

As cynical as it is i bet it would have been treated differently if Leonard had just deliberately clipped his heels which we see in football every single week.

If you look where the goalie was we were never going to win the appeal. 

[Morgan]

32 minutes ago, bertracoon said:

That's not the rules though. Never has been. 

No?

 

A football player can be sent off (red card) for a foul committed in their own half. According to The FA Law 12, a player is sent off for serious foul play, violent conduct, or denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, regardless of where on the field it occurs.

 

 

[Diego10]

Also, for the folk who are happy he's suspended cause Beni will play - maybe so, but what if we pick up an injury?  Ww need the bench as strong as possible and losing players to suspension for dreadful decisions doesn't help 

[indianajones]

Shock horror. ****ing gimps. Let's hope they remain consistently shite across the board for the last 6 games. 

[jamboozy]

Just popped in to say **** the GFA AND THE SPFL, that is all, good night everyone.👍

[loveofthegame]

I think this might be a good thing. Reunite the band. Beni and cammy back as the midfield 2.

[Keep the Heid]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Overall it probably won't be a precedent but interesting to look back over the games. 

 

Could be a hundred similar incidents.

Or even just watch all the remaining games for dubious fouls, where no action is taken, particularly when the cheeks are involved.

A bit like the jersey pulling in the box, if its against Rangers then it's a penalty, anyone else, nothing to see here from the officials.

[tiger Rudi]

2 minutes ago, Keep the Heid said:

Or even just watch all the remaining games for dubious fouls, where no action is taken, particularly when the cheeks are involved.

A bit like the jersey pulling in the box, if its against Rangers then it's a penalty, anyone else, nothing to see here from the officials.

Exactly this. Any foul out wide near the half way line can now be classed as denying a goalscoring opportunity. 

I won't hold my breath if it's a player in a maroon shirt that gets taken out!

[tiger Rudi]

8 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

I think this might be a good thing. Reunite the band. Beni and cammy back as the midfield 2.

But we need a midfield 3 😀. I agree that Beni and Devlin will be 2 of them though. Might just be the catalyst to get back to winning ways.

[Mikey1874]

McAllister of Liverpool chops down PSG player on touchline 30 yards from goal. Only booked. 

[Sooperstar]

Should see the one the ref just hasn't given a red for in the Barca game.

 

Immediately sent to the screen and quite rightly told to sort himself out.

[waterboy11]

What aspect of the tackle makes it a red card? It's not out of control, it's not dangerous, it's not Violent conduct? 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Dougie Masterton said:

If you look where the goalie was we were never going to win the appeal. 

The positioning of the keeper was completely irrelevant as there is usually a keeper there who can potentially save it when a red for DOGSO is awarded.   Only thing relevant was whether another defender (Altena I think) would cover in time to prevent him getting a shot on goal.   It was very contentious imo and sets a dangerous precedent.  

[Fozzyonthefence]

5 minutes ago, waterboy11 said:

What aspect of the tackle makes it a red card? It's not out of control, it's not dangerous, it's not Violent conduct? 

That’s not why it was given as a red card.  It was deemed denial of a goal scoring opportunity.   Very, very dubious and the ref’s on field decision shouldn’t have been overturned. 

[waterboy11]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s not why it was given as a red card.  It was deemed denial of a goal scoring opportunity.   Very, very dubious and the ref’s on field decision shouldn’t have been overturned. 

No I agree with you - it didn't quote an earlier message saying it should have been a red for the tackle alone 

[Tommy Brown]

2 hours ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Just farcical. 

 

Red card in your own half ffs. 

I know what you meant

 

A red card in the opposition half!!

[maroonsgotop]

I wonder what aspect Robertson told Clancy he'd missed to persuade him to upgrade the yellow

[Robbo-Jambo]

13 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

I know what you meant

 

A red card in the opposition half!!

Whoops!! 😅 

[bertracoon]

2 hours ago, Morgan said:

No?

 

A football player can be sent off (red card) for a foul committed in their own half. According to The FA Law 12, a player is sent off for serious foul play, violent conduct, or denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, regardless of where on the field it occurs.

 

 

The person I was replying to was saying it was a cynical foul with no attempt to play the ball and should therefore be a red. That doesn't matter a **** as it's not in the laws of the game. Original decision of yellow card is exactly what the poster was referring to. 

[Dougie Masterton]

35 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

The positioning of the keeper was completely irrelevant as there is usually a keeper there who can potentially save it when a red for DOGSO is awarded.   Only thing relevant was whether another defender (Altena I think) would cover in time to prevent him getting a shot on goal.   It was very contentious imo and sets a dangerous precedent.  

The goalie is irrelevant aye ok then 😂

[GBJambo]

Look forward to seeing this applied in all games then . Sent off in the opposition half with covering players 🤦🏻

[Hibs Nil]

2 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Can't wait for Maeda to knock a ball past McEntee and get fouled  75 yards from goal on the wing for a red card at Celtic Park.

 

 

I can’t wait for McEntee to turn around, sprint back and head it all the way back in to the Celtic net. For a 4-1 win.

[Aussie Jambo]

One for the GFA ref YouTube channel. With weasel boy then saying it’s not dogso. Bet ye. 

[OTT]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Overall it probably won't be a precedent but interesting to look back over the games. 

 

Could be a hundred similar incidents.

 

This is the issue though, it should become a precedent. 

 

If Referees want to make big and bold calls, thats absolutely fine. But there needs to be consistency around these decisions. 

 

For example, the Trusty red card but then a few weeks later James Tavernier skates by a virtually identical incident whilst already on a booking with no further booking, or a straight red.

 

If refs aren't willing to concede their decisions create precedent, then they shouldn't be making those calls. 

 

We're now in the ridiculous position of a foul on the halfway line that doesn't endanger the opponent being a straight red... 

 

Remember the compliance officer? Starting to think the referees need one appointed by the clubs. Would be hilarious to see the likes of John Beaton or David Dickinson being "offered" a one week suspension. 

[Morgan]

1 hour ago, bertracoon said:

The person I was replying to was saying it was a cynical foul with no attempt to play the ball and should therefore be a red. That doesn't matter a **** as it's not in the laws of the game. Original decision of yellow card is exactly what the poster was referring to. 

My mistake, sorry. 👍

[chrisyboy7]

If you can't beat the bottom teams then it seems to be the refs fault we are bang average and not good enough. Leonard pissed me off on Sunday. I'm still not over it. Likes the safe pass. Creates zero. I could go on and on. Trying to win a league and plays like that. Not good enough but good for cover. That's all. All our attacking midfielders are all injured. Incredible stats. No wonder we don't create from there now and opt for a cross. Zero through ball.

Now.......we will now finish 3rd. Hope I'm wrong though.

January window was a wasted opportunity I'm afraid. Players not ready lol. Since when do we buy player's not ready for our league.

Huge mistakes made there....oh they will come good....aye maybe next season. This is on the club. 

I will continue to get right behind the push but the confidence is gone sadly.

Mon the Hearts lol

[manaliveits105]

The officials here are at it even Patsy Kensit