'This season or bust?'

[NottsJambo]

I know what it's like on here, but I'll take my chance by saying what I'm thinking.

 

There seems to be too much pressure on this season, which cannot be good for the long term. There is a discussion in the thread on the new Aberdeen manager over the preference for winning a cup or 'being in the running' for the league this season. The point seems to be that if we don't win this season, it's worth nothing.

 

We'll all be gutted if we don't win, but I don't want to see not winning it as an albatross round our necks. We didn't go overboard to get a striker in this during January because this is a process. The first step was to get as close as we can to the OF this season, and we've done that and more. Hibs and Aberdeen fans will give us grief for 'bottling it' but that's just what fans do. Deep down, they'll be jealous because this wasn't a one off. This is the new normal.

[Busby8]

I think the main observation from most is that the cheeks are comparatively weak right now. ( or have been). 

Will they both ever be this bad over the course of a season again ?

Chances are that they won't, which I think is why there is a feeling around that, despite it being early in the 10 year forecast, this could/should be our best chance.

 

.

[Malinga the Swinga]

This year is definitely out first chance for almost 30 years. I do not believe it is our best chance nor our last chance 

[EIEIO]

I believe this is the new normal ie we will get stronger every season using JTA. However , Rantic are uniquely both very poor this season, by their standards, so the chance is there now miles ahead of our wildest expectations. 40 years of Rantic domination fuels the pressure as them winning and others failing is all many of us know so them both being poor at once looks like a unique event or our only chance. 

I don't think this will be our only chance going forward however, I suspect they will improve in the coming seasons too. 

Edited February 5 by EIEIO
Spelling

[David McCaig]

This season is not a one off for us, yes the Old Firm may be weaker than normal, but the crazy thing is that this is the JTA v1 version of Hearts, so realistically this is probably the worst we are going to be under JTA.

 

It will obviously be a sore one if we don't win the League this year and if we are being honest there is still more chance of us finishing 3rd than lifting the trophy, but the thoughts of what our side might look in 3, 4 or 5 years time should be enough to have any Hearts fan salivating and the relative strength of the OF may be immaterial to our chances of success by that point.

[Jamboross]

1 minute ago, Busby8 said:

I think the main observation from most is that the cheeks are comparatively weak right now. ( or have been). 

Will they both ever be this bad over the course of a season again ?

Chances are that they won't, which I think is why there is a feeling around that, despite it being early in the 10 year forecast, this could/should be our best chance.

 

.

 

They probably won't, no, but equally it should be remembered that this is the weakest we will likely be for the foreseeable future as well. This is just the beginning. It's something most of the media, fans of other clubs and more than a few of our own haven't quite grasped - we aren't going to be a one season wonder. There will be blips, for sure, but we are going to consistently get stronger and the Old Firm are going to be missing out on vast sums of European money thanks to the dodgy co-efficient so their ability to spend their way out of bother will be reduced. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Rangers and Celtic will get better, so will we. 

 

This season is really a fairy tale, yet we are really only 3 months out now from the end, completing 6 months of league football.

 

There is an opportunity to hurt at least one of them, make their life harder. The difficulty in our minds, highlighted by the mad response since Tuesday, is the length of time we have led this league, people have put our own team on a pedestal and now expect to win the league, when really that should only ever have been hope.

 

We can do this, of course we can, it is hard though, very hard to lead a league and play well for 9 months. We couldn't expect either to take it lying down and they are not.

 

I would not have expected to challenge this season or next, we are though, its an opportunity gained unexpectedly.

 

Leading a 3 horse race mid February, who would not have taken that the first week of August, regardless of how it ends, this season has been a success.

[OmiyaHearts]

It feels like this has happened too soon. We are well ahead of schedule and it's unlikely we have the players we need to see it through and win it. 

 

I don't think its this season or bust, and I've never considered we would win it this season and probably wont. But what a start to the JTA era and it's exciting that we can look forward to this team getting better and better each season.

[TexasAndy]

To flip the OP question around, would winning the league this season be an albatross around our necks?   Would it build an expectation that we should be winning it every year from now?  

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

The better Rohl and O'Neill do, the more it does back up the argument that we are where we are largely because they've both been terrible at times. Rangers under Rohl and Celtic under O'Neill are easily clear of us in the form table. But we've been very good as well though. I suspect what we're seeing is what we will see for the next few years - three teams in with a shout and some years we'll have a right good chance at first and others we'll be third.

[Locky]

I get the narrative that Celtic and Rangers have had their problems and this could be a missed opportunity, but that's also quite a short sighted view on the matter.

 

Said it on here a million times this year, we are still at the very beginning of what promises to be a new era for Heart of Midlothian. If the promise materialises, we will win multiple cups and titles over the coming years. If this year isn't our year, then so be it. What's for us won't go by us etc.

 

I don't want to just be a flash in the pan that nabs a title off a shite Celtic or Rangers team. I want this to be the beginning of dominance. An era where the legacy of Celtic and Rangers is trampled and spat on in front of their very eyes. 

[Locky]

2 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

To flip the OP question around, would winning the league this season be an albatross around our necks?   Would it build an expectation that we should be winning it every year from now?  

That's a good point. We're in safe hands with Bloom, but a title this season followed by maybe a transitional season with a 3rd or 4th finish would certainly upset a lot of fans and perhaps derail the clubs plans in panic a little.

 

When the times right, we'll get there. And when we do, we'll be there to stay.

[Rampant]

Bloom's hope of at least one league title within the next 10 years was not based on Celtic and Rangers decline, it was based on our growth.

 

The fact we're in the hunt in this first season whilst the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen are nowhere close, I think only supports his view that Hearts winning titles in the next decade is possible.  Motherwell at least helping to prove Bloom's other hope which is that a stronger league creates a more competive league, making title wins outside of the Old Firm possible.  But importantly we've shown this year that we're the team able to capitalise on slip ups from the Old Firm.  We're the team capable of competing directly with them on the pitch.  So we're the team that will be closing that gap, even if this first season looks like more of a false dawn, should we not be able to pull off the unthinkable.

 

The only argument against thinking Bloom's original prediction / hope doesn't hold is that we've proved very early how possible it actually may be to challenge this duopoloy, the challenge that so many laughed at when Bloom came on board.  And maybe the Old Firm will have been a bit spooked and will spend even more than they do currently to keep the rest of us at bay, and maybe put a bit more effort into spending it more shrewdly than they have gotten away with for decades.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, Locky said:

I get the narrative that Celtic and Rangers have had their problems and this could be a missed opportunity, but that's also quite a short sighted view on the matter.

 

Said it on here a million times this year, we are still at the very beginning of what promises to be a new era for Heart of Midlothian. If the promise materialises, we will win multiple cups and titles over the coming years. If this year isn't our year, then so be it. What's for us won't go by us etc.

 

I don't want to just be a flash in the pan that nabs a title off a shite Celtic or Rangers team. I want this to be the beginning of dominance. An era where the legacy of Celtic and Rangers is trampled and spat on in front of their very eyes. 

[Clerry Jambo]

The arsecheeks are certainly not the best in recent seasons however I think you need to take into account the points we have took off them. That’s a big thing and part of the reason where we are now 

Edited February 5 by Clerry Jambo

[section s heart]

Tuesday was a setback but at worst we are 3 points clear of the cheeks. A hard start to the third set of fixtures but in these 3 games, Rangers have played at home to Dundee and Killie for some perspective.

[Hector Riva]

We are just finding our JTA feet this season and it's all good. 

Next season onwards and we are in the mix. 

Gorgie rules.

Edited February 5 by Hector Riva

[Sherbet]

13 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

To flip the OP question around, would winning the league this season be an albatross around our necks?   Would it build an expectation that we should be winning it every year from now?  

Id like to win and find out

[Bill Sikes]

Really enjoying watching it all play out tbh, its funny watching the bigots completely losing the plot on and off the field because they fully understand the impact JTA is making and going forward, improvement is inevitable. 

 

Its absolutely hilarious watching the bullies getting a few proper slaps and a good few bloody noses this season.

 

We won't win the league year, but the damage we're doing to the entire league is glorious. 

 

Enjoy it 😀😀😀

[Madjambo21]

15 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

It feels like this has happened too soon. We are well ahead of schedule and it's unlikely we have the players we need to see it through and win it. 

 

I don't think its this season or bust, and I've never considered we would win it this season and probably wont. But what a start to the JTA era and it's exciting that we can look forward to this team getting better and better each season.

Well said.

Think it's been a amazing season and hope we can win it.

I also belive we will get better over the seasons but will have bumps along the way.

 

While we won't out spend the old firm JTA shows you can do it on a budget.

 

 

[Percival King]

22 minutes ago, Busby8 said:

I think the main observation from most is that the cheeks are comparatively weak right now. ( or have been). 

Will they both ever be this bad over the course of a season again ?

Chances are that they won't, which I think is why there is a feeling around that, despite it being early in the 10 year forecast, this could/should be our best chance.

 

.

Yep, one or the other can have a poor season compared to their usual standard, and that will definitely happen again, but it's obviously less likely that both will have a poor season at the same time. I'm hoping O'Neil leaves in the summer and they get another Deila, Venglos or Brady in. We can't feel sorry for ourselves and chuck the towel in but when we're competing with a team that can reject a £20m+ offer for a player it shows the scale of the challenge.

[The Maroon Jacket]

Whether or not Celtic and Rangers are better or not next season doesn't come into the equation and never will as Hearts have a process in place to always improve Hearts year on year  our fight is with ourselves not with others 

Always Hearts 

[GinRummy]

27 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

This year is definitely out first chance for almost 30 years. I do not believe it is our best chance nor our last chance 

Saves me reading on. Nailed it ⬆️ 

[EH11 2NL]

We're in a process which has been proven else where. Even if we don't win it this season, a points record, followed up by another huge points total over the next few seasons would see us win it eventually. Probably the only guaranteed you can get right now, is that this is the weakest Hearts team for the foreseeable. 

[McNelly15]

I'm looking forward to when both the uglies are doing well and still losing the league to Us. Will make it so much better. That will definitely happen in the future. 👌🏽

[Malinga the Swinga]

7 minutes ago, section s heart said:

Tuesday was a setback but at worst we are 3 points clear of the cheeks. A hard start to the third set of fixtures but in these 3 games, Rangers have played at home to Dundee and Killie for some perspective.

And have benefitted from officials who will cheat wherever possible to assist them. **** Sevco and each of their knuckle dragging bigoted Neanderthal support.

 

In case accusations I favour Celtic follow, **** Celtic and each one of their knuckle dragging bigoted support.

[N Lincs Jambo]

In response to the thread title, definitely not this season or bust. We need to get used to competing at the top. Take this season, played 24, won 16, drawn 5, lost 3, points 53.

 

Before anyone points out that I’ve got it wrong, those aren’t our figures, they’re Arsenal’s. It finally looks like they’re going to win it this year having been knocking on the door for a few seasons.

 

We might do it this season - by God I hope we do - but even if we miss out we’re not going away. This is season 1 of Tony Bloom and JTA.

The players and the management team are gaining experience of competing for a title. Celtic are still bookies’ favourites purely because they have done it 13 out of the last 14 seasons. Rangers only have Tavernier with the experience of winning a title and big Craigie won 5! And neither team is currently any good.

[ramrod]

We were never winning the league this year, we still might and i've been wrong on many an occassion.

The big dissapointment was the cups.

The league is a huge ask over 38 games with only 12 teams in the league.

There are very few gimmies in the schedule.It takes a hell of a winning.

Cups though are well within our compass especially this year.

Del and the players have let themselves down massively in that respect.

Thankfully with the cups its not now or never, the Old Firm probably wont be as bad as this year but we should be strong enough to win a few in the coming Seasons. 

Anything less would be failure on Dels part imo.

 

[kila]

If the model works, we'll keep selling our assets for profit and eventually reinvest into the squad a higher and higher calibre of player.

 

The fact we're top of the league when we've barely started is crazy but helped by Celtic and Rangers being weak. Sure, they won't be as weak going forward perhaps, but neither will we.

[Mikey1874]

For Rangers it might be.

[kingantti1874]

This is the new normal. And once we’ve won it once the pressure will be off, we can do it again and I’ll be able to sleep properly before matches 

[Cisc0 K1d]

We are fighting for the top prize for the first time in a long time so lets enjoy the ride, it's a lot better than struggling to get in the top 6 or even fearing being caught up in a relegation fight, at worst we are going to qualify for Europe which was probably our main goal at the start of the season.

 

The bigger picture is that we have got much better players than ever before, I can't believe how good Braga and Kizi are and I suspect some of the younger less experienced guys like Magnusson and Kabore are going to improve and be better  in time and also joined by new even better signings.  I can only see us improving over time and really think this season whatever the outcome is only the start, we can't control what the Old Firm do but we are going to beat them plenty more times, we will help create their meltdowns like thy have both had this season and we will hopefully start to steal some of their European places and that pot of gold from UEFA that JTA can put to good use for us.            

[spirt of 98]

I’ve enjoyed this ride. I hope we can win. If we don’t I’ll be very disappointed but I am used to that with Hearts. 
 

I’ll still be at games and still support the team. I still remember 86, I was at Dens and Hampden the following week. I went to the Caledonian Hotel after the cup final and welcome the hero’s back. 
 

I feel the same about this team! They are a squad of hero’s who provide joy. That’s what it’s all about. Trophies are great but giving the fans hope and displaying desire is just as important. 
 

I’ll support them ever more.

 

 

[Australis]

Kris Boyd said at the start of the St Mirren game that the Hearts team you see tonight will be the weakest Hearts team you will see for a long time.

 

I agree with him.

Jamestown and the gaffer will continue to improve us.

 

Wondering what we could replace Braga and Kyzi with if we got a couple of million for each of them in the summer.

 

Delighted we will have European games next season and the money.

But it means all those extra games too.

 

[Heres Rixxy]

The concern that is rightly pointed out remains for now the huge gulf in finances, which we know doesn't equate 1:1 on performance but the larger the gap, the more stars have to align for someone to crack it. The trading model is indented to help bridge that gap over time.

 

If you put our season performance to date into last season, we'd be ahead of Rangers but 6pts behind Celtic (plus a good 30 GD off them, so effectively 7pts) even if we still had the 2x wins and 1x draw. This season performance from them unfortunately is the outlier, and we can expect to have to compete at a higher level to be in title runs.

 

So while I don't believe this season is all or bust, I DO believe it's one of the best chances we may have for a few years.

[N Lincs Jambo]

15 minutes ago, Australis said:

Kris Boyd said at the start of the St Mirren game that the Hearts team you see tonight will be the weakest Hearts team you will see for a long time.

 

I agree with him.

Jamestown and the gaffer will continue to improve us.

 

Wondering what we could replace Braga and Kyzi with if we got a couple of million for each of them in the summer.

 

Delighted we will have European games next season and the money.

But it means all those extra games too.

 

Given Bowie left Hibs for £6 Million I would be disappointed if we didn’t get at least that for both Braga and Kyzi especially since they might have league winners medals and a good bit left on their contracts. I imagine we would reinvest around 50-60% on transfer fees for their replacements with the remainder used to finance their wages.

 

Next season our wage structure is likely to take an uplift if we really do start splashing out on increased transfer fees.

Edited February 5 by N Lincs Jambo
Predictive text edit

[Broon1874]

The points dropped against the dirty ^^^^ hoofball merchants of this league could be pivotal, why Del cannot put a team out to slap this shite down is still beyond me, I'm sure more twists and turns are to come this season and I'm not expecting us to be able to win the title, however, whilst there is a chance we should be behind them.

The arse cheeks are never more than 3 games from a meltdown/crisis and so it shall prove again in the coming seasons.

[Cochrane123]

Think this season we've improved massively against the OF which is likely the biggest driver or our league position.

 

As we improve hopefully we can maintain a respectable record against them (a lot better than before) but also really dominate against the other teams in the league. Not dropping points like Tuesday allows for the odd bad game against the OF and still be challenging.

[gwd1957]

1 hour ago, NottsJambo said:

I know what it's like on here, but I'll take my chance by saying what I'm thinking.

 

There seems to be too much pressure on this season, which cannot be good for the long term. There is a discussion in the thread on the new Aberdeen manager over the preference for winning a cup or 'being in the running' for the league this season. The point seems to be that if we don't win this season, it's worth nothing.

 

We'll all be gutted if we don't win, but I don't want to see not winning it as an albatross round our necks. We didn't go overboard to get a striker in this during January because this is a process. The first step was to get as close as we can to the OF this season, and we've done that and more. Hibs and Aberdeen fans will give us grief for 'bottling it' but that's just what fans do. Deep down, they'll be jealous because this wasn't a one off. This is the new normal.

The "albatross " has been around our neck's for 40 year's and Hibs fan's won't  just give us grief , they will honour anyone that stop's Hearts winning the league , Albert Kidd has a day that they celebrate ,it's up to Hearts to make sure it doesn't happen .

[Australis]

6 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

Given Bowie left Hibs for £6 Million I would be disappointed if we didn’t get at least that for both Braga and Kyzi especially since they might have league winners medals and a good bit left on their contracts. I imagine we would reinvest around 50-60% on transfer fees for their replacements with the remainder used to finance their wages.

 

Next season our wage structure is likely to take an uplift if we really do start splashing out on increased transfer fees.

Think getting rid of the players in the squad who have not really played a big part this season.

 

Very big squad and the wage bill concerns me a bit with so many fringe players.

 

Only normal they don't want to move on if on good money or long contracts.

 

Thought a few would have been jumped on by other clubs this window for loan deals but it was very quiet regarding that.

 

[B4 Part B]

👏👏👏

Lots of good posting on this thread.

 

I agree this is a great chance, but it won't be our only chance over the next 10 years. So it's not now or never.

 

Something that does stick in my mind though is when Bloom said progress won't always be linear. So while I feel this kind of season will be the norm for us (maybe 7/10 of the next seasons like this?), there may be more difficult seasons where one of the OF do blow us away, or something like Motherwell this season have an incredible season. 

 

Anyway, a lot of positivity, optimism, and a dash of realism on this thread. Good to see.

[Broon1874]

5 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

Given Bowie left Hibs for £6 Million I would be disappointed if we didn’t get at least that for both Braga and Kyzi especially since they might have league winners medals and a good bit left on their contracts. I imagine we would reinvest around 50-60% on transfer fees for their replacements with the remainder used to finance their wages.

 

Next season our wage structure is likely to take an uplift if we really do start splashing out on increased transfer fees.

I don't believe we have or will have that much spare cash for fees given the outlay this season, I know we got money in for Penny, and possibly Wilson in a few months.

The trading model is key of course, but I don't see us getting £4-5m for any our players during the next window either, maybe a decent run in one of the european comps will help that go up though.

[N Lincs Jambo]

1 minute ago, Australis said:

Think getting rid of the players in the squad who have not really played a big part this season.

 

Very big squad and the wage bill concerns me a bit with so many fringe players.

 

Only normal they don't want to move on if on good money or long contracts.

 

Thought a few would have been jumped on by other clubs this window for loan deals but it was very quiet regarding that.

 

Yeah there will be a few fringe players moving on if they’re out of contract. It will be interesting to see how we reinforce midfield. Beni and Cammy both out of contract and I have no idea if either will still be there next season. One thing for sure is we won’t be getting cash for them unless they sign on again which looks unlikely.

[N Lincs Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Broon1874 said:

I don't believe we have or will have that much spare cash for fees given the outlay this season, I know we got money in for Penny, and possibly Wilson in a few months.

The trading model is key of course, but I don't see us getting £4-5m for any our players during the next window either, maybe a decent run in one of the european comps will help that go up though.

The way I see it is the initial TB investment was to start the ball rolling. After that it has to be self-funding. I might be wrong with this opinion though.
 

I do think we should have a good chance of getting decent money bids in for our top performers like Kyzi and Braga. If we don’t, we get to enjoy watching them next season.

[boag1874]

I said this in another thread - a big part of the reason for the OF (in particular Celtic) being on less points, less PPG etc than normal is a direct result of us being stronger & being able to challenge them. We're taking points off them that they would normally have got & it's why we're top atm, lose those 5 games & this is the table.

 

Rangers - P25 - Pts 57

Celtic - P24 - Pts 56

Motherwell - P24 - Pts 43

Hearts P25 - Pts 40

Hibs P25 - Pts 39

 

That's the difference between them finishing around the low 80s mark & the high 80s/90s, probably a good 20 points ahead of the nearest challengers come the end of the season. If we keep challenging them in h2h games then that points total remains lower & thus more achievable & I think we'll hold our own in that regard.

[Cochrane123]

6 minutes ago, B4 Part B said:

👏👏👏

Lots of good posting on this thread.

 

I agree this is a great chance, but it won't be our only chance over the next 10 years. So it's not now or never.

 

Something that does stick in my mind though is when Bloom said progress won't always be linear. So while I feel this kind of season will be the norm for us (maybe 7/10 of the next seasons like this?), there may be more difficult seasons where one of the OF do blow us away, or something like Motherwell this season have an incredible season. 

 

Anyway, a lot of positivity, optimism, and a dash of realism on this thread. Good to see.

 

Really good point about process might not be linear. We've tended to pretty duff across the season where we have european qualification. Solving that problem will be a big step on our progress after this season. 

[JJ1984]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

This year is definitely out first chance for almost 30 years. I do not believe it is our best chance nor our last chance 

What was our best chance, Burley?

 

Answer to the question, I'm not sure. 

Edited February 5 by JJ1984

[Hairybanjo]

No doubt we are overachieving this season, a sign of things to come with JTA. The key for upcoming weeks is to hang on in there for another month or so. With the players we have to come back and the players getting up to speed i think we'll be in a great position for a strong finish.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, JJ1984 said:

What was our best chance, Burley?

 

Answer to the question, I'm not sure. 

I'd argue 97/98 was. Probably our best quality team, Rangers were coming down, Celtic had not reached peak, the winning total was low, 74 points from 36 games, and we did lose that title because we couldn't beat either of them, ironically until the Cup Final.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Busby8 said:

I think the main observation from most is that the cheeks are comparatively weak right now. ( or have been). 

Will they both ever be this bad over the course of a season again ?

Chances are that they won't, which I think is why there is a feeling around that, despite it being early in the 10 year forecast, this could/should be our best chance.

 

.

 

O'Neil will not be at celtic next season but their Board will be. There is no guarantee they will get much better.

Rohl is nothing secial but has got them organised in a way Russell Martn thought was beneath his philosophy. He is certainly not a better coach than McInnes.

 

Plus neither of them can pilfer the rest of the league for talent to sit on their bench anymore.