Wilson on loan to spurs (title updated)

[Taffin]

Just now, GinRummy said:

I don’t know but I’d seriously doubt whether it’s Arsenal or nothing at all. We knocked a bid back from Newcastle in the summer and those are just two of the clubs we know about. 
 

Of course it might just be Arsenal interested but I’d seriously doubt that. 

 

That would be something else to be considered but the question was what's the benefit of a loan to arsenal...currently there are two scenarios we're aware of and the Arsenal one has upsides for all involved imo.

 

Sure, someone else may come in and offer us something fantastic but until that happens it's somewhat of a moot point 

[Saint Jambo]

A loan with option to buy is similar in some ways to a sell-on percentage. In both cases we are accepting less now for the possibility that there might be a big payout later.

[vegas-voss]

If the £8m figure is even remotely true then it's feck all to Arsenal.Remember he is only 18 if they see the potential to have him as a first team number 9 at the age of 22 that £8m is an absolute bargain for them but huge for Hearts.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Niall said:

Really hope the club don't stand in his way. McIness giving him a derisory 2-3 minutes every six weeks isn't cutting it as a development strategy.

If we win the league, it will feel like a hollow victory because we have played guys who are scoring and playing well for the team. Good to see you have development of one youth player as priority.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

That would be something else to be considered but the question was what's the benefit of a loan to arsenal...currently there are two scenarios we're aware of and the Arsenal one has upsides for all involved imo.

 

Sure, someone else may come in and offer us something fantastic but until that happens it's somewhat of a moot point 

The statement was that this isn’t a good deal for Hearts. Great if he goes down and impresses but if he doesn’t we are potentially in a worse position than now. 
 

if he’s attracting a club of arsenals stature I seriously doubt whether that’s the only option. Just because we don’t know about other options doesn’t mean there aren’t any. 

[MCW1976]

2 hours ago, H2 said:

If Bowie is worth £7m, how much is Wilson worth? £15m (by comparison)

 

I'm amazed that Arsenal are interested in him. I thought it was a typo. Surely they meant Arbroath, I thought.

By all means, I hope he makes me eat my words. However, I've seen next to nothing about the lad that makes me think he's a Hearts player -- never mind an Arsenal player!

 

 

Edited February 2 by MCW1976

[Saint Jambo]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t know but I’d seriously doubt whether it’s Arsenal or nothing at all. We knocked a bid back from Newcastle in the summer and those are just two of the clubs we know about. 
 

Of course it might just be Arsenal interested but I can’t see it. 

 

There may be no club offering the transfer fee we think he is worth at the moment.

 

Then we have the issue that Wilson needs to agree to any move. Given he turned down the option of an EPL U23 move for the prospect of first team football at Hearts then he may feel he would now rather go down the EPL road now than a loan move in Scotland which if it didn't work out could see his stock fall even further.

[Penrices left boot]

15 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

It all reminds me of Jason Holt when we won the Championship. Great player but he was underused that was one of Neilson's failings. Special talents should be given a chance look at Man Utd under Ferguson: Scholes, Beckham, Butt, The Neville's you give them game time 

 

Holt wasn't a " great" player or a special talent. Never we was.

He was a decent player.

Certainly not in the class of Man utd players  you mention, even relative to Hearts.

He arguably wasn't even our best youth at the time.

Bob used the likes Patterson, the king brothers, Nicholson, walker so played youth.

 

Wilson situation is nothing like Holts situation  and neither are like the man utd players that built the foundations of a dominant period for them.

 

"Give them game time", ffs- it's not a Sunday league kick about or a trainingsession, we are literally going for the title.

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Saint Jambo said:

 

There may be no club offering the transfer fee we think he is worth at the moment.

 

Then we have the issue that Wilson needs to agree to any move. Given he turned down the option of an EPL U23 move for the prospect of first team football at Hearts then he may feel he would now rather go down the EPL road now than a loan move in Scotland which if it didn't work out could see his stock fall even further.

Aye maybe. A loan with no obligation to buy just doesn’t seem a good route to me. Could work out though. 

[vegas-voss]

5 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:

 

I'm amazed that Arsenal are interested in him. I thought it was a typo. Sureley they meant Arbroath, I thought.

By all means, I hope he makes me eat my words. However, I've seen next to nothing about the lad that makes me think he's a Hearts player -- never mind an Arsenal player!

He is only 18  and has already scored in a derby.There were times last season his hold up play was better than Shanks ( who was of course going through a very poor season ).Arsenal are not signing him to be a first team player for now or next season.They are looking 3 or 4 season in the future and if he develops how they think he can an £8m fee will be nothing.

Edited February 2 by vegas-voss

[Gambo]

This could be a simple 6month loan, (or is it 18month?).

 

Hearts maybe think game time in Arsenal u23s is better than a St.Johnstone/Dunfermline.

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

He is only 18  and has already scored in a derby.There were times last season his hold up play was better than Shanks ( who was of course going through a very poor season ).Arsenal are not signing him to be a first team player for now or next season.They are looking 3 or 4 season in the future and if he develops how they think he can an £8m fee will be nothing.

Can’t say I remember his hold up play being good, defenders just shrug him aside like the wee laddie he is. 
Criminal he hasn’t put any body mass on yet, might be the biggest thing he learns down there. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Gambo said:

This could be a simple 6month loan, (or is it 18month?).

 

Hearts maybe think game time in Arsenal u23s is better than a St.Johnstone/Dunfermline.

 

 

I would imagine it is.

[Pasquale for King]

SSN saying Spurs interested too. 

[Walter Kidd]

I think it's ace that a kid who has come through our academy is someone Arsenal are looking to take.  It's a massive boost for the Academy and the coaches and everyone else involved in it.  Good luck if you go James.  Go and smash it.

[Pasquale for King]

Change the thread title Mods 

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Walter Kidd said:

I think it's ace that a kid who has come through our academy is someone Arsenal are looking to take.  It's a massive boost for the Academy and the coaches and everyone else involved in it.  Good luck if you go James.  Go and smash it.

We aren’t a charity,   a massive boost for the academy would be bringing someone through to contribute to hearts or selling for a top fee. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Seems a good move for him. Wouldn’t want him to leave but need to bridge the gap to allow him to cope with the physical demands of playing up front against men. 

[Kirky Jambo]

3 hours ago, Niall said:

Really hope the club don't stand in his way. McIness giving him a derisory 2-3 minutes every six weeks isn't cutting it as a development strategy.

McInnes is quite conservative that way but can hardly be criticised for it given where are are. “Derisory” is an unfair way of putting it. 

[Smithian]

Hearts supporters are certainly tougher graders on him than any football scout.

 

He was 17 (seventeen!) last season and was a battlefield promotion by Neil Critchley and helped Hearts steady the ship when relegation was a real fear. He isn't some athletic prodigy who dominated the game, but he looked like he belonged in tough top flight and European match/

 

This season, he is stuck behind a star striker, two internationals in Mato and Kabore, and a player Hearts found on an ice block in Norway who may finish with 15 goals. 

 

There's not one serious club who is docking James Wilson because one season he held his own and helped steady the ship then a year later was buried on a title challenger behind multiple international regulars and a guy who is a hot month from being in the running for top goal scorer in Scotland, and all those players ahead of him are

 

Arsenal or any top flight club bringing him in for a half season run with U21 team to see him up close is not a knock on him. I'd rather Hearts place him somewhere like St. Johnstone, but for his career it is probably preferable at this point to be in an English Premier League environment than dominating the Championship a year after he notched 30+ appearances between domestic and European matches.

[Smithian]

9 minutes ago, Walter Kidd said:

I think it's ace that a kid who has come through our academy is someone Arsenal are looking to take.  It's a massive boost for the Academy and the coaches and everyone else involved in it.  Good luck if you go James.  Go and smash it.

Good post.

 

I never understood why it is a bad thing Man City. Arsenal, and other mega clubs sniffing around Hearts academy.

 

I'd be disappointed if we read stories about Hearts losing academy players to English Champ/League 1 sides, but I think it's a compliment to Hearts that some of the biggest clubs in the world are taking notce.

[Footballfirst]

The club blocked previous potential loan deals for James in the belief they needed him. Subsequently, he has fallen out of favour at Hearts and I've no doubt his development has stalled in the interim. He may now feel that he made the wrong decision to stay two years ago.

 

For James, I think a loan outside Scotland is a no brainer. A choice between very limited minutes at Hearts, more regular football at a lower league SPFL side, or the chance to impress Arsenal or other EPL clubs (several of whom were keen to sign him two years ago), who can make him into a first team player or a marketable asset. 

 

There is little sense of club loyalty among players of all ages these days, So if James chooses to leave for pastures new, I would wish him well and hope that he can have a successful career going forward.

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

If I was manager he'd be my first name on the team sheet in the big games (Celtic, Rangers and Hibs) he has alot of potential. Good luck to him he will be a great player

 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The club blocked previous potential loan deals for James in the belief they needed him. Subsequently, he has fallen out of favour at Hearts and I've no doubt his development has stalled in the interim. He may now feel that he made the wrong decision to stay two years ago.

 

For James, I think a loan outside Scotland is a no brainer. A choice between very limited minutes at Hearts, more regular football at a lower league SPFL side, or the chance to impress Arsenal or other EPL clubs (several of whom were keen to sign him two years ago), who can make him into a first team player or a marketable asset. 

 

There is little sense of club loyalty among players of all ages these days, So if James chooses to leave for pastures new, I would wish him well and hope that he can have a successful career going forward.

 

Depends on how involved he is with the first team. He might think he is close to playing. Derek McInnes might think he is close to playing for Hearts depending on circumstances. Being part of the current Hearts squad might just be brilliant for a young player's development.

 

Negative thinking about Hearts first is a long tendency here. 

Edited February 2 by Mikey1874

[Niall]

Its a bit weird going on loan to play for someones reserve team. Given we don't have a proper reserve league in Scotland maybe it makes sense. Sign of the times.

[iantjambo]

3 hours ago, Niall said:

Really hope the club don't stand in his way. McIness giving him a derisory 2-3 minutes every six weeks isn't cutting it as a development strategy.

 Start of February, 6 points clear and you’re sticking the boot in because DM isn’t giving our 4th or 5th choice striker more game time? **** me

 

[Mikey1874]

Unless everything that is said about Jamestown is wrong, Hearts will have a clear value on James Wilson.

 

Also part of the system to respect the player's wishes. 

[Mikey1874]

30 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:

 

I'm amazed that Arsenal are interested in him. I thought it was a typo. Surely they meant Arbroath, I thought.

By all means, I hope he makes me eat my words. However, I've seen next to nothing about the lad that makes me think he's a Hearts player -- never mind an Arsenal player!

 

 

 

Yeah.

 

Amazing the football experts value a young player more than some supporters do.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

1 hour ago, rudi must stay said:

 

In the big games. Give him experience toughen him up

Aye let’s just use the big games to toughen up players 

[Niall]

Now Spurs are in the mix.

 

There's a suprising amount of interest in a player that would derail our title challenge if he ever saw the pitch in a Hearts shirt.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

Unless everything that is said about Jamestown is wrong, Hearts will have a clear value on James Wilson.

 

Also part of the system to respect the player's wishes. 

It's clear that the club's stance re JW has changed since the summer. He's under contract, so the club must now be ok with him going out on loan or transferred permanently.  JTA will have a number in mind re his sell on value in the current market (might be lower than it was 6 month ago). If Arsenal, Spurs or any other club hits that valuation, then there will be pressure on the Board to accept it.  That's the business model that Hearts has bought into.

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, Niall said:

Now Spurs are in the mix.

 

There's a suprising amount of interest in a player that would derail our title challenge if he ever saw the pitch in a Hearts shirt.

well that’s just garbage.

[GarryJ-o-s]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

£8m is insane.   He's talented but he simply hasn't had enough exposure to justify that kind of fee.   But if we can get a chunk of it then all good.   It's a pity that it sounds like Arsenal aren't committing to buy right now.

if we got £8 million, or even half that, would be absolutely laughing with the JTA model. That would cover all our transfers for the past two years, surely?

 

I shudder to think what we could do with that money nowadays.

 

He is fifth choice striker now, but he also became the youngest player ever to score in the Conference League and has scored eight goals from just over 20 starts.

[HeartsCobra]

Perhaps Hearts may want him back after 6-months’ training and improvement at Arsenal. 

[South Moroccan Rolla]

When Arsenal signed Hincapie on loan from Leverkusen it was structured in some kind of funny way whereby Arsenal have the option to buy him this summer but in the event they don't activate it, Leverkusen also have the right to trigger the sale (for the same price as the buy option) - meaning on the books it's a loan with an option but in reality it's an obligation (unless both sides decide not to trigger it)

Confusing, but basically just a way to defer the income/outgoing on the books for FFP etc as obligations go on this year's accounts & options obviously don't

 

Maybe something similar going on with Wilson?

[Everybody Loves Baz!]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

well that’s just garbage.

Have you seen the rest of his posts over the last few days?

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, HeartsCobra said:

Perhaps Hearts may want him back after 6-months’ training and improvement at Arsenal. 

what if we need him next week.  One injury to Kabore and that where we will be . 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Everybody Loves Baz! said:

Have you seen the rest of his posts over the last few days?

na.  Assume ive missed an obvious troll 

[LSC]

44 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:

 

I'm amazed that Arsenal are interested in him. I thought it was a typo. Surely they meant Arbroath, I thought.

By all means, I hope he makes me eat my words. However, I've seen next to nothing about the lad that makes me think he's a Hearts player -- never mind an Arsenal player!

 

 

Outrageous comment was he not offered a move down south earlier and chose to stay , now you’re ripping him and arsenal are interested in him . Hope he moves down south succeeds and we get pennies for him that’ll cure you ffs man 

[HeartsCobra]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

what if we need him next week.  One injury to Kabore and that where we will be . 

 

Eh? 

 

I was meaning perhaps Hearts won’t agree to a future sale at this stage, as they obviously still value Wilson. 

Maybe Hearts are happy to send him on loan with a recall option, confident that Arsenal may make a tidy offer in the summer.

 

[vegas-voss]

14 minutes ago, GarryJ-o-s said:

if we got £8 million, or even half that, would be absolutely laughing with the JTA model. That would cover all our transfers for the past two years, surely?

 

I shudder to think what we could do with that money nowadays.

 

He is fifth choice striker now, but he also became the youngest player ever to score in the Conference League and has scored eight goals from just over 20 starts.

2nd youngest scorer now.Some Irish laddie was 16 this season.Although his was in qualifier where Wilson was in the actual League.

Edited February 2 by vegas-voss

[Vlad Magic]

Bigger uncut diamonds are sometimes worth more than smaller finished diamonds.

[johnthomas]

24 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah.

 

Amazing the football experts value a young player more than some supporters do.

Indeed . Not sure who would know best

[rudi must stay]

27 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Aye let’s just use the big games to toughen up players 

 

Man Utd did that with Ronaldo 

[davie1980]

Well this is a mad development.

 

A lad that is 5th choice for us is wanted by Arsenal. 

 

And Arsenal want him on loan, which is stranger still. If he has no chance of playing in front of Braga and co, he has less with Gyokerez, Haverz, Jesus and Merino. 

 

Truly weird development. All the best to him, just hope we get good money and a sell on

[jbee647]

If Spurs Arsenal and supposedly Newcastle are after Wilson, then bidding starts at £5m or do all the keyboard peps still think we should be punting Wilson off to Arbroath or St Johnstone?

 

[Der Kaiser]

Was rumoured with a loan to St J which, selfishly, I would rather he did.

 

Read elsewhere that he fits a sought after profile of a young player being physically developed but not technically developed yet.

 

At this stage it does seem a better option for him with first team opportunities this season being limited.

[Everybody Loves Baz!]

23 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

na.  Assume ive missed an obvious troll 

IMO, yes mate.

[Ford Prentice]

7 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Well this is a mad development.

 

A lad that is 5th choice for us is wanted by Arsenal. 

 

And Arsenal want him on loan, which is stranger still. If he has no chance of playing in front of Braga and co, he has less with Gyokerez, Haverz, Jesus and Merino. 

 

Truly weird development. All the best to him, just hope we get good money and a sell on

The loan idea is not weird. Gives them a chance to look at him and, importantly, gives him a chance to see if he likes it down there. They hoover up a lot of young talent who subsequently disappear. He may find the grass is not necessarily greener.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

31 minutes ago, South Moroccan Rolla said:

When Arsenal signed Hincapie on loan from Leverkusen it was structured in some kind of funny way whereby Arsenal have the option to buy him this summer but in the event they don't activate it, Leverkusen also have the right to trigger the sale (for the same price as the buy option) - meaning on the books it's a loan with an option but in reality it's an obligation (unless both sides decide not to trigger it)

Confusing, but basically just a way to defer the income/outgoing on the books for FFP etc as obligations go on this year's accounts & options obviously don't

 

Maybe something similar going on with Wilson?

 

Interesting, that's an inventive way for clubs to structure it, you would imagine that's what the case is here.

 

A straight loan with no buy obligation doesn't make sense for Hearts imo.