The refereeing in the League Cup this weekend

[OmiyaHearts]

Been a proper ding dong on my WhatsApp today with the huns and tims arguing about all the decisions.

 

Both sets of fans thinking the ref was against them.

[EVHearts]

Rangers turn to demand an explanation from Collum.

 

Back in the day, that would be classed as bringing the game into disrepute.

 

oh how times have changed or have they?

 

 

[Always the Hearts]

2 minutes ago, EVHearts said:

Rangers turn to demand an explanation from Collum.

 

Back in the day, that would be classed as bringing the game into disrepute.

 

oh how times have changed or have they?

 

 

Managers/clubs are encouraged to ask for explanations these days. It's the right thing to do and makes the game more transparent. Or at least it's meant to. 

[EVHearts]

1 minute ago, Always the Hearts said:

Managers/clubs are encouraged to ask for explanations these days. It's the right thing to do and makes the game more transparent. Or at least it's meant to. 

I would be hard to convince that they are totally transparent.  They are like a some sort of brotherhood

[Japan Jambo]

16 minutes ago, EVHearts said:

Rangers turn to demand an explanation from Collum.

 

Back in the day, that would be classed as bringing the game into disrepute.

 

oh how times have changed or have they?

 

 

 

still is unless it's Rangers or Celtic...

[Gershwin]

15 hours ago, milky_26 said:

ralston wasn't booked for the handball, that was the point the poster was making

Bobby Madden pointed out that giving away a penalty stopped being an automatic yellow two years ago.

[Always the Hearts]

42 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

Bobby Madden pointed out that giving away a penalty stopped being an automatic yellow two years ago.

It wasn't just the penalty, though. Ralston was guilty of persistent fouling, and still didn't get a second yellow. 

[boag1874]

The Trusty one is a howler of a decision. Intentional or not he's kicked the goalie in the head, that's recklessly endangering an opponent. 

 

Ralston I can only assume they reckon he's falling rather than diving on the ball or he should have 100% been off too. IMO he's got off lightly.

[Hømme]

 

2 hours ago, Always the Hearts said:

Managers/clubs are encouraged to ask for explanations these days. It's the right thing to do and makes the game more transparent. Or at least it's meant to. 

 

Probably made that rule up so Celtic couldn't be in breach of anything.

[Maple Leaf]

4 hours ago, bigdav said:

Yep that's why we got two decisions for us at Ibrox and a very debatable one went our way on Wed night as well 🤦

That's a fair point, but do you think that the officials are completely impartial when it comes to their treatment of the OF?

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think that’s right. I think he’s realised he’s not first to that ball and he’s left his leg high on Ralston deliberately. A red all day long for me

 

Trusty. That’s probably a red most times. He’s been hoping Butland spills it but it’s reckless and dangerous to the opponent

 

The penalty. I’d be raging if that was given against us but screaming for it if it was in our favour. It’s one of those, but he has to be booked if they think it’s a penalty 

 

Ralston and Maeda spent the whole game fouling people

 

I'm pretty sure he touched the ball before making contact with Ralston.

[By The Light..]

I hope St Mirren win it, there I've said, I feel dirty now though

Edited Monday at 15:54 by By The Light..

[Always the Hearts]

32 minutes ago, By The Light.. said:

I hope St Mirren win it, there I've said, I feel dirty now though

I'd be surprised if any Hearts fan wanted Celtic to win the cup. The last thing we want is them getting a trophy in December, their confidence rising and them chasing a treble. 

[bigdav]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

That's a fair point, but do you think that the officials are completely impartial when it comes to their treatment of the OF?

I know what you mean and we might well get shafted as the season goes on but let's not get to the Celtic victim paranoia that every decision goes against us- be interesting to see what their fans think about the conspiracy from yesterday. 

[moonshine]

19 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Still can't understand how Trusty kicking Butland in the head was not a red. The fact he moves his leg towards Butland after Butland has the ball in his arms, rules out momentum.

Anyone remember Dale Gordon fighting with Dave McPherson to get a sly kick in on Henry Smith?

Ref didn't see a thing, of course. 

[Spellczech]

I thought Trusty leaving the boot in on Butland was a red. Certainly would've been for any team other than Celtic...Was very surprised the officials didn't use it to even up the numbers. Usually they try to do that in OF games where there is a red.

[hughesie27]

Look forward to us getting this level of access once we win the league.

 

 

[Always the Hearts]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Look forward to us getting this level of access once we win the league.

 

 

Any manager has that access. It's encouraged now. 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Look forward to us getting this level of access once we win the league.

 

 

 

There is no denying words need to be had, but its not 1 to 1 with the Rangers CEO and Collum, its ALL CEOs/Club Chairmen and Collum. 

 

The standard of so called "top" referees, is atrocious. The game quite literally would be better without them. I dread seeing Walsh or Beaton being appointed for our games. They are irredeemably bad. Walsh wants centre stage, and as evidenced, doesn't make good decisions, or control games. Beaton is an arrogant toss pot, that creates a hostile atmosphere. 

 

My controversial take is, sack Collum. Appoint Clancy, adopt a quota system (where all 12 Referees associations get top flight representations) and get rid of this idea that "top" refs can't be demoted. Our FIFA list officials are a whose who of shite referees. Make VAR its own role too. No more moonlighting on it. 

 

The reason I'm saying Clancy isn't because I think he's a superb referee, its because I think he genuinely is an honest guy, that actually has integrity. IIRC, he is a solicitor to trade, and when you see his interactions with players, he's remarkably calm, and cordial. He explains his decisions, and doesn't dismiss players away in such a way as to antagonise (as Beaton so often does). I don't think he goes into games trying to be centre of attention, and honestly, I do think his mistakes are genuine. I cannot think of a single occasion where he has "lost the plot", he's absolutely had bad games, but because he isn't striving to be a pantomime villain like Collum did, or Walsh tries to be, I think that buys him good will. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

There is no denying words need to be had, but its not 1 to 1 with the Rangers CEO and Collum, its ALL CEOs/Club Chairmen and Collum. 

 

The standard of so called "top" referees, is atrocious. The game quite literally would be better without them. I dread seeing Walsh or Beaton being appointed for our games. They are irredeemably bad. Walsh wants centre stage, and as evidenced, doesn't make good decisions, or control games. Beaton is an arrogant toss pot, that creates a hostile atmosphere. 

 

My controversial take is, sack Collum. Appoint Clancy, adopt a quota system (where all 12 Referees associations get top flight representations) and get rid of this idea that "top" refs can't be demoted. Our FIFA list officials are a whose who of shite referees. Make VAR its own role too. No more moonlighting on it. 

 

The reason I'm saying Clancy isn't because I think he's a superb referee, its because I think he genuinely is an honest guy, that actually has integrity. IIRC, he is a solicitor to trade, and when you see his interactions with players, he's remarkably calm, and cordial. He explains his decisions, and doesn't dismiss players away in such a way as to antagonise (as Beaton so often does). I don't think he goes into games trying to be centre of attention, and honestly, I do think his mistakes are genuine. I cannot think of a single occasion where he has "lost the plot", he's absolutely had bad games, but because he isn't striving to be a pantomime villain like Collum did, or Walsh tries to be, I think that buys him good will. 

That sounds a good idea to me.

 

Clancey would be a good choice in that role. I don’t think he is a great referee and the game against Motherwell away at the end of last season being an example. I do trust him to call it as he sees it which isn’t something I can say about Collum. 
 

The refs from Glasgow and Lanarkshire needs to stop. 

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

That sounds a good idea to me.

 

Clancey would be a good choice in that role. I don’t think he is a great referee and the game against Motherwell away at the end of last season being an example. I do trust him to call it as he sees it which isn’t something I can say about Collum. 
 

The refs from Glasgow and Lanarkshire needs to stop. 

 

Yep. Put someone with integrity at the top, and give them a mandate to enforce change. 

 

There is no reason why there isn't greater representation of Edinburg, Dundee & Aberdeen based officials. It ****ing reeks. Quota system it until the culture is broken, and then later down the line revert back to a TRUE merit based system. But IMO I'd like to see a minimum of 10 years using a quota. 

 

I also wonder the merits of relocating the Refereeing HQ out of Glasgow. Force investment elsewhere. Dundee perhaps. 

[Jambo92]

Just pure deflection from Rangers. Their red card was bang on, they got a soft penalty and can only be aggrieved about the Trusty decision - in normal time it didn't look too bad so for me that's on VAR not Walsh.

 

Overall another defeat but trying to spin it to keep their fans at bay.

[Mikey1874]

Just gives Willie Collum another chance to seem relevant.

[RustyRightPeg]

 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

10 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Anything that annoys either one of the two butt cheeks is fine in my book.

The rest of us have had to endure this type of cheating for years. Welcome to the club. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, Always the Hearts said:

I'd be surprised if any Hearts fan wanted Celtic to win the cup. The last thing we want is them getting a trophy in December, their confidence rising and them chasing a treble. 

Question is if it would make them confident or complacent. I think the latter.

[HMFC01]

"Hold them (SFA) to account" . Pioneers in fair play all of a sudden.   

 

 

[Armageddon]

Don’t these things even themselves out over the season?  We were fed that pish for years but that doesn’t seem the case because it doesn’t suit them.

 

Statement FC v Victim FC

[JFK-1]

9 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Both sets of fans thinking the ref was against them.

 That’s all football fans of all teams all the time.

[Jacques de Gauthier]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Just gives Willie Collum another chance to seem relevant.

The only time he’s relevant is when they look for the best example of nominative determinism. 

[Born Again Nade]

1 hour ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

Question is if it would make them confident or complacent. I think the latter.

St Mirren should be relishing the prospect of facing them. 

[Born Again Nade]

I meant to comment on the thread topic. It’s too exciting these days not gonna lie. Imagination runs wild often…

 

For me there’s no doubt the ref in that game was lenient with both teams and did bump rangers with the big decisions. I do think we should look at paying foreign refs. Ironically this was Celtic’s idea way back until they realised what that would mean for them going forward. 

 

I doubt this sore loser statement by Rangers will change a damn thing but the stinking performance of our officials regardless of reasons cannot be ignored. Literally making our game a laughing stock whilst clubs are trying to raise the profile. 
 

Football is not a terribly hard sport to officiate. International Laws of the game fairly simple and conclusive barring a few interpretations. How the hell we end up discussing the refs after every game is beyond me. Any other industry they get sacked for poor performance with zero sympathy.
 

the VAR review show is a joke. Bring VAR in to minimise mistakes… only in Scotland could it be used to create even more controversy and spotlight on the officials.
 

This week it’s rangers greetin, next week it’ll be celtic. All the while clubs like ourselves and other non-OF get scammed a lot worse than those two ever do. All in all it’s wholly embarrassing.

 

[Olly51]

5 hours ago, Born Again Nade said:

This week it’s rangers greetin, next week it’ll be celtic. All the while clubs like ourselves and other non-OF get scammed a lot worse than those two ever do. All in all it’s wholly embarrassing.

 

Yeah agree, it fries my noodle that these two consistently moan about being ‘hard done by’ & suffering from bias decisions etc…. And yet despite this 'handicap' they’ve still amassed an incredible number of league and cup wins (in excess of 230+ between them) a figure that simply dwarfs any/every other team in the country   

 

Maybe we (& every other team) should count our lucky stars… Imagine what they could’ve achieved if they had unbiased officials ! 
 

[Always the Hearts]

9 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

Question is if it would make them confident or complacent. I think the latter.

With the trophies and trebles they've hoovered up over the last few years, I'd say the former. 

[bloomtime]

11 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Anything that annoys either one of the two butt cheeks is fine in my book.

The rest of us have had to endure this type of cheating for years. Welcome to the club. 

More they don't win stuff more they become like their fellow arsecheek. A team that gets a pen virtually every week too. Oh the Irony. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

18 hours ago, boag1874 said:

The Trusty one is a howler of a decision. Intentional or not he's kicked the goalie in the head, that's recklessly endangering an opponent. 

 

Ralston I can only assume they reckon he's falling rather than diving on the ball or he should have 100% been off too. IMO he's got off lightly.

 

People are going to rightly assume that 'celtic were not to get suspensions', especially the straight red that trusty should have got

 

There's no way that should have gotten a yellow

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:21 by Ricardo Quaresma

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Rangers putting pressure on how Celtic are refereed is just the latest thing to go our way, I love it to be honest

 

[Ian Black 8]

23 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

VAR seem to want to avoid pissing off their mates by pointing out their countless mistakes thus exacerbating the situation.

What gets me is when the panel comes out during the week and says VAR got it wrong at the weekend? How the **** is that possible lol

[Always the Hearts]

1 minute ago, Ian Black 8 said:

What gets me is when the panel comes out during the week and says VAR got it wrong at the weekend? How the **** is that possible lol

I'm looking forward to the audio and their explanation for not sending a player off for booting somebody in the head.😂

[SUTOL]

8 minutes ago, Always the Hearts said:

I'm looking forward to the audio and their explanation for not sending a player off for booting somebody in the head.😂

 

 

He "booted" him in the head with less force than Beni repeatedly booted Kabore up the arse after his (chopped off) goal at St Mirren. 

[redjambo]

14 hours ago, Jambo92 said:

Just pure deflection from Rangers. Their red card was bang on, they got a soft penalty and can only be aggrieved about the Trusty decision - in normal time it didn't look too bad so for me that's on VAR not Walsh.

 

Overall another defeat but trying to spin it to keep their fans at bay.

 

And also in order to put pressure on the refs in the coming games. It's disgusting behaviour by Rangers, but certainly not for the first time, and it won't be the last attempt by either of the arse cheeks to put undue pressure on the referees and VAR to favour them. In this particular case they're going even further and whipping up a frenzy in order to kick-start their awful season, and so other than the integrity of the games, the SFA and/or officials could also be at risk as a result. 

[Always the Hearts]

17 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

He "booted" him in the head with less force than Beni repeatedly booted Kabore up the arse after his (chopped off) goal at St Mirren. 

Aye, it's the exact same situation.🙄

[Gundermann]

Nice to see the red, white and blue butt cheek seething about refereeing injustice.

 

[The new West End]

53 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

And also in order to put pressure on the refs in the coming games. It's disgusting behaviour by Rangers, but certainly not for the first time, and it won't be the last attempt by either of the arse cheeks to put undue pressure on the referees and VAR to favour them. In this particular case they're going even further and whipping up a frenzy in order to kick-start their awful season, and so other than the integrity of the games, the SFA and/or officials could also be at risk as a result. 

 

Imagine if Vlad has done anything similar .....

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Ian Black 8 said:

What gets me is when the panel comes out during the week and says VAR got it wrong at the weekend? How the **** is that possible lol

 

The damage has been done already and they know it. 

[OTT]

49 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

The damage has been done already and they know it. 

 

Will keep saying it, but we're suffering by having Referees moonlighting on VAR. We should have referees and VAR as very separate  and distinct roles with no cross over. I think the assistant part is lost in translation and the lines are getting blurred between the refs role & the VAR role. Specialist VAR officials, who have a clear understanding of their remit would be better, and likely reduce the litany of egregious mistakes.

 

The biggest problem in Scottish refereeing IMO is the Glasgow bias. Far too many officials are being drawn from Glasgow, and the surrounding areas whilst major areas of the country like Edinburgh, Dundee & Aberdeen are ignored. With VAR, the net could be cast far & wide to get the right people in. If there was an assessment officials could sit to qualify as VAR then it could potentially offer up a route to top flight officiating for officials stuck in the lower reaches (perhaps because they lack traits like assertiveness and control of players, but otherwise possess a brilliant understanding of the rules, could very well thrive as VAR). 

 

It maybe sounds daft, but surely a sort of "hazard perception" like test could be put together, featuring a series of video clips of potential VAR interjections, and the candidates need to identify A.) if they should get involved, B.) Why they should get involved/ the basis for it. - This would educate officials on the boundaries of where VAR sits, and ensure that its not overreaching, or alternatively underreaching and provide clarity that every VAR official is passing a minimum standard specific to the role. 

 

[The Treasurer]

14 hours ago, Born Again Nade said:

St Mirren should be relishing the prospect of facing them. 

Having faced both of them recently I know which was the harder game 

[SUTOL]

3 hours ago, Always the Hearts said:

Aye, it's the exact same situation.🙄

 

 I never said it was the same situation, never mind the "exact" same. 

[Jacques de Gauthier]

15 hours ago, Born Again Nade said:

I meant to comment on the thread topic. It’s too exciting these days not gonna lie. Imagination runs wild often…

 

For me there’s no doubt the ref in that game was lenient with both teams and did bump rangers with the big decisions. I do think we should look at paying foreign refs. Ironically this was Celtic’s idea way back until they realised what that would mean for them going forward. 

 

I doubt this sore loser statement by Rangers will change a damn thing but the stinking performance of our officials regardless of reasons cannot be ignored. Literally making our game a laughing stock whilst clubs are trying to raise the profile. 
 

Football is not a terribly hard sport to officiate. International Laws of the game fairly simple and conclusive barring a few interpretations. How the hell we end up discussing the refs after every game is beyond me. Any other industry they get sacked for poor performance with zero sympathy.
 

the VAR review show is a joke. Bring VAR in to minimise mistakes… only in Scotland could it be used to create even more controversy and spotlight on the officials.
 

This week it’s rangers greetin, next week it’ll be celtic. All the while clubs like ourselves and other non-OF get scammed a lot worse than those two ever do. All in all it’s wholly embarrassing.

 

They can’t understand that they are, to all intents and purposes, the same thing. Rangers and Celtic aren’t known as the Old Firm for no reason. 

[Always the Hearts]

10 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

 I never said it was the same situation, never mind the "exact" same. 

So what was your point? Is it ok to kick a keeper in the head, as long as it's not full force? It was a red card all day long. And the Celtic pundits agreed.