Religious People

[Craigieboy]

Is it genetic or a choice of lifestyle?

 

 

.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Mental Derangement.

[hughesie27]

Hugely 'inflicted' upon by parents.

[Craigieboy]

Hugely 'inflicted' upon by parents.

 

You, my friend are wise beyond your years.

 

Most people that I know who are religious have been brought up with it. Those who try to get into it as adults, don't last long.

 

Your youth shapes your future.

 

 

.

[Stanley_]

Hugely 'inflicted' upon by parents.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Craig R]

It will die out fairly soon, in Britain anyway. Another couple of generations should see it off except for the odd nutter here and there.

[felix]

It's a lifestyle choice..

[neave]

Hugely 'inflicted' upon by parents.

And schools. I work (well, it's a placement, but you get me) in a Primary School and, eventhough it's not a religious school, they're still drumming this pish into the kids' heads.

 

It's truly sickening.

[The Doctor]

The question should be are you an Arminian or a Calvinist?

[Craigieboy]

And schools. I work (well, it's a placement, but you get me) in a Primary School and, eventhough it's not a religious school, they're still drumming this pish into the kids' heads.

 

It's truly sickening.

 

A secular society is the way to go. The French have done it.

 

You want to be religious? Teach it to your kids at home.

 

Seems fair to me!?

 

.

[Walter Payton]

It will die out fairly soon, in Britain anyway. Another couple of generations should see it off except for the odd nutter here and there.

 

Mental Derangement.

 

Do "religious" people deserve such contempt from you guys just because you don't agree with them? Labeling everybody that isn't closed minded and determined there isn't a higher being (and I'm not saying they're right) a "nutter" or "mentally deranged" would lead me to question your intelligence faster than I would theirs.

 

One of the biggest signs of immaturity IMO is having a cheap crack at the individual or group that it isn't cool to stick up for- you see it all the time at primary schools everywhere. You'd get shouted down fast enough if you had such prejudiced blanket attitudes towards most other groups (based on colour, race etc.) and I dare say get a hefty suspension from the mods on here, but somehow "religious people" are fair game for all the abuse people want to throw at them- and the rednecks of our society love it.

 

I wouldn't describe myself as "religious" before anybody thinks that's the reason for the off-the-wall rant- Prejudiced attitudes like these do my head in though and I don't think they should be acceptable on a board like this. I'm not arguing the religious case here- that's for a different thread. Fair enough despise what's been done in the name of religion over the years (and that's a perfectly valid stance to have) but have a bit of respect for people, even if you don't identify yourselves with them- plenty of other jambos would.

[makateer]

Indoctrination

 

and a small percentage of choice of lifestyle

[Carl Fredrickson]

I wasnt brought up in a religious family. Didnt go to church as a kid but had loads of questions.

 

Became a Christian at 18 and 8 older family members made similar "life decisions" after me.

 

Those that are still alive have faith. I do not go along with the extremists that are often too obvious nor do I agree with forcing it upon others BUT I do believe in sharing it when appropriate or invited.

 

Each to their own.

[The Doctor]

I became a Christian at 19, from a family that didn't go to church, didn't believe.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with indoctrination, mind you I wouldn't describe myself as religious anyway.

 

Whether it's a choice or not is a matter of theological standpoint. Was I predestined or did I make use of free will? I refer you again to my previous question.

 

Oh and Andy is right, some of you should be ashamed.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

bikers are not religious whatsoever but, if everyones like me they,ll find god in their few minutes just in case.

[Commander Harris]

The question should be are you an Arminian or a Calvinist?

 

Calvinist.

[hughesie27]

I was christened as a baby. Never been to church off my own back only with the school. Same goes with the rest of my family. I'd like to think that there is something after death although I wrecokn thers jsut a whole load of nothingness much like if you faint or are as leep. You just stop. I would also like to believe that there is a god. Although it sounds and probably is completely made up. I'm more of a comfort and belonging christian. It's there for when I need it, troubled times. Otherwise it gets kept locked away.

[The Doctor]

Calvinist.

 

Yeah, probably me too although I don't believe truth is found in any extreme.

 

Those despicable Westboro Baptist people are extreme Calvinists, getting out of balance is bad.

 

In fact, what I believe is that both positions are true, both are certainly biblical. They are a paradox and we live our lives in the tension created by that paradox. For example: I am both worthless and priceless.

 

Apparently I am also deranged.

[The Doctor]

I was christened as a baby. Never been to church off my own back only with the school. Same goes with the rest of my family. I'd like to think that there is something after death although I wrecokn thers jsut a whole load of nothingness much like if you faint or are as leep. You just stop. I would also like to believe that there is a god. Although it sounds and probably is completely made up. I'm more of a comfort and belonging christian. It's there for when I need it, troubled times. Otherwise it gets kept locked away.

 

Without wishing to sound any way judgemental...

 

Why did your parents christen you?

[Commander Harris]

Yeah, probably me too although I don't believe truth is found in any extreme.

 

Those despicable Westboro Baptist people are extreme Calvinists, getting out of balance is bad.

 

In fact, what I believe is that both positions are true, both are certainly biblical. They are a paradox and we live our lives in the tension created by that paradox. For example: I am both worthless and priceless.

 

Apparently I am also deranged.

 

I agree that the westboro "baptist" people are despicaple but their theology on sin, and specifically homosexuality, has nothing to do with any brand of Calvinism.

 

I agree that it is a great paradox that people are chosen and choose. One I'm content with not understanding fully.

[269miles]

A secular society is the way to go. The French have done it.

 

You want to be religious? Teach it to your kids at home.

 

Seems fair to me!?

 

.

 

You're missing the point : the French don't have a secular society because they are in any way anti religious (quite the opposite). When they had the Revolution it was because they were fed up being creamed by the church.

Othwise , I think the OP is simplistic and offensive.

 

 

PS I think it's genetic : we've all got a 'God spot'.

[hughesie27]

Without wishing to sound any way judgemental...

 

Why did your parents christen you?

I have no idea. All my brothers' (3) were also christened. Probably the 'done' thing back then? I have a mixed bunch of friends who were christened and some who weren't.

I can tel lyou though that my parent have never even mentioned god or tried to influence my decisions in his name or any of that malarky.

RME as it's called at school theses days isn't too in depth, it's just boring. Good to know some basics of them such as eating habits purely to prevent any confusion or difficult situations later in life.

[pablo]

Quakers seem nice. Sit about and talk, nobody take charge and be nice to each other. A worthwhile reaction to the church of England and Scotland. They also seem to live in a Christian spirit. The Quakers I know are lovely. Their parents all seem to be Christian fundamentalists though.

[ArmiyaRomanova]

Do "religious" people deserve such contempt from you guys just because you don't agree with them? Labeling everybody that isn't closed minded and determined there isn't a higher being (and I'm not saying they're right) a "nutter" or "mentally deranged" would lead me to question your intelligence faster than I would theirs.

 

One of the biggest signs of immaturity IMO is having a cheap crack at the individual or group that it isn't cool to stick up for- you see it all the time at primary schools everywhere. You'd get shouted down fast enough if you had such prejudiced blanket attitudes towards most other groups (based on colour, race etc.) and I dare say get a hefty suspension from the mods on here, but somehow "religious people" are fair game for all the abuse people want to throw at them- and the rednecks of our society love it.

 

I wouldn't describe myself as "religious" before anybody thinks that's the reason for the off-the-wall rant- Prejudiced attitudes like these do my head in though and I don't think they should be acceptable on a board like this. I'm not arguing the religious case here- that's for a different thread. Fair enough despise what's been done in the name of religion over the years (and that's a perfectly valid stance to have) but have a bit of respect for people, even if you don't identify yourselves with them- plenty of other jambos would.

 

 

Wanna buy a free booklet?

 

Sorry, that doesn't wash.

 

Folk should be free to believe whatever they like.

 

As long as they don't foist their beliefs on others.

 

And that's precisely what many religious communities have been doing for millenia when religion was the defining force in most societies.

 

With this came inquisition, burning, war, slavery etc... for those that don't tow the line.

 

If the religious are getting some of it back now... well, so be it. A few cheap jibes are nothing to what they've doled out imho...

[The Doctor]

Wanna buy a free booklet?

 

Sorry, that doesn't wash.

 

Folk should be free to believe whatever they like.

 

As long as they don't foist their beliefs on others.

 

And that's precisely what many religious communities have been doing for millenia when religion was the defining force in most societies.

 

With this came inquisition, burning, war, slavery etc... for those that don't tow the line.

 

If the religious are getting some of it back now... well, so be it. A few cheap jibes are nothing to what they've doled out imho...

 

Quite right AR!

 

I was terrible for inquisiting people back in the day, never mind the burning and war and slavery. I deserve to get some for what was done back then, bring it on.

[Commander Harris]

Quite right AR!

 

I was terrible for inquisiting people back in the day, never mind the burning and war and slavery. I deserve to get some for what was done back then, bring it on.

 

quite. this huge generalisation of "the religious" is a tad simplistic also. let's tarnish anyone with a belief(in fact only certain kinds of belief that don't meet our scientific worldview) as the same. Then we can convieniently blame them all for the world's ills.

[The Doctor]

I have no idea. All my brothers' (3) were also christened. Probably the 'done' thing back then? I have a mixed bunch of friends who were christened and some who weren't.

I can tel lyou though that my parent have never even mentioned god or tried to influence my decisions in his name or any of that malarky.

RME as it's called at school theses days isn't too in depth, it's just boring. Good to know some basics of them such as eating habits purely to prevent any confusion or difficult situations later in life.

 

Thanks Hughsie, I've never really understood the point of christening children, particularly if you're not going to take them to church or bring them up in the Christian faith. Is it superstition? Is it tradition? Is it just a rite of passage or a ceremony or an excuse for a party?

 

I was christened at a month old as well, but I was baptised as an adult when I was 19, full immersion, in a big tank!

[ArmiyaRomanova]

Quite right AR!

 

I was terrible for inquisiting people back in the day, never mind the burning and war and slavery. I deserve to get some for what was done back then, bring it on.

 

I'm sure you were....

 

Fact is, we are still living in times of strife cause in no small part by differences of religious belief, and there are still societies on our planet where not conforming to the tenets of a particular religious belief is punishable by death.

 

Not good enough, imho...

 

You don't personally deserve abuse (unless you monger your religion around), but I'm glad I live in a society where religious belief systems can be held up to question - and, yes, ridiculed.

[The Doctor]

Quakers seem nice. Sit about and talk, nobody take charge and be nice to each other. A worthwhile reaction to the church of England and Scotland. They also seem to live in a Christian spirit. The Quakers I know are lovely. Their parents all seem to be Christian fundamentalists though.

 

Sorry Pablo, that really made me laugh! Like Christian fundamentalists wouldn't be lovely or nice or live in a Christian spirit. Like despite the fact that their parents were fundamentalists the kids turned out to be okay, phew!

 

Most people would consider me to be a fundamentalist and I'm lovely and quite normal! I would also be considered an evangelical and yet I have quite a balanced and accepting outlook, really you'd like me, lots of people do!

 

I can get references if you like...

[Stewart MacD]

See the thread on Heath Ledger's funeral.

[The Doctor]

I'm sure you were....

 

Fact is, we still living in times of strife cause in no small part by differences of religious belief, and there are still societies on our planet where not conforming to the tenets of a particular religious belief is punishable by death.

 

Not good enough, imho...

 

You don't personally deserve abuse (unless you monger your religion around), but I'm glad I live in a society where religious belief systems can be held up to question - and, yes, ridiculed.

 

Absolutely AR, I think what I had a problem with was being tacitly branded a nutter and deranged, me, not a belief system.

 

I have NEVER shyed away from religious debate on this forum. I have tried to answer every question put to me. I have had my faith held up to fairly rigorous questioning and I have welcomed the debate and opportunity to have my faith tested. I have no interest in a society where belief systems wouldn't be scrutinised and I would be wary of a faith that refused to open itself to scrutiny. (Are you listening Mr Cruise?)

[pablo]

Sorry Pablo, that really made me laugh! Like Christian fundamentalists wouldn't be lovely or nice or live in a Christian spirit. Like despite the fact that their parents were fundamentalists the kids turned out to be okay, phew!

 

Most people would consider me to be a fundamentalist and I'm lovely and quite normal! I would also be considered an evangelical and yet I have quite a balanced and accepting outlook, really you'd like me, lots of people do!

 

I can get references if you like...

 

I know a Christian fundamentalist who showed her child pictues of gonorrhea sufferers to warn her against out of marriage sex. She became a Quaker. I couldn't care less really. It just seems to me Quakers seem more Christian spirited in what I believe to be the meaning of it, than Church of Scotland Christians do. Sorry, it's just my opinion based on my personal experience.

[Walter Payton]

I'm sure you were....

 

Fact is, we are still living in times of strife cause in no small part by differences of religious belief, and there are still societies on our planet where not conforming to the tenets of a particular religious belief is punishable by death.

 

Not good enough, imho...

 

You don't personally deserve abuse (unless you monger your religion around), but I'm glad I live in a society where religious belief systems can be held up to question - and, yes, ridiculed.

 

Do you still ridicule Germans because of the war? Would you say "fair do's" if somebody from the continent of Africa thought it was fair game to ridicule you or try and make you a laughing stock in public because people of your heritage subjected their ancestors to slavery? There are neo-nazis still around and still people that own slaves, so does the same rules apply then?

[The Doctor]

I know a Christian fundamentalist who showed her child pictues of gonorrhea sufferers to warn her against out of marriage sex. She became a Quaker. I couldn't care less really. It just seems to me Quakers seem more Christian spirited in what I believe to be the meaning of it, than Church of Scotland Christians do. Sorry, it's just my opinion based on my personal experience.

 

That's pretty awful, but I suspect it has more to do with her being a bit unbalanced than being a Christian, there's certainly no precedent, no teaching in any church I've ever been part of, that would consider that good parenting.

 

Without wishing to sound rude or confrontational, can I ask what you think a Christian fundamentalist is? I'm not wanting to put you right or anything, it just seems like a good opportunity for me to get an idea of how people outside the church see some of the people inside. Maybe we can make a better impression if we understand how we're seen.

[ArmiyaRomanova]

Absolutely AR, I think what I had a problem with was being tacitly branded a nutter and deranged, me, not a belief system.

 

I have NEVER shyed away from religious debate on this forum. I have tried to answer every question put to me. I have had my faith held up to fairly rigorous questioning and I have welcomed the debate and opportunity to have my faith tested. I have no interest in a society where belief systems wouldn't be scrutinised and I would be wary of a faith that refused to open itself to scrutiny. (Are you listening Mr Cruise?)

 

 

 

That's a laudable stance that I wish were shared by every member of every religious group across the globe.

 

Unfortunately, it's quite obviously not.

 

And while it's not....

[ArmiyaRomanova]

Do you still ridicule Germans because of the war? Would you say "fair do's" if somebody from the continent of Africa thought it was fair game to ridicule you or try and make you a laughing stock in public because people of your heritage subjected their ancestors to slavery? There are neo-nazis still around and still people that own slaves, so does the same rules apply then?

 

 

Were I a neo-nazi or a slave owner, then yes, I'd expect abuse.

 

The past is past - and I feel that we should learn from the horrors we have inflicted on others in the name of one diety or another and adapt our behaviour accordingly.

 

It saddens and sickens me that religious belief remains the root cause of much strife in the world today - religious leaders and many practitioners have obviously NOT learned.

 

Does that deserve criticism and even ridicule?

 

I'd say it does.

 

Directed at individuals? Should be unnecessary if they keep their beliefs to themselves.

[Walter Payton]

Were I a neo-nazi or a slave owner, then yes, I'd expect abuse.

 

The past is past - and I feel that we should learn from the horrors we have inflicted on others in the name of one diety or another and adapt our behaviour accordingly.

 

It saddens and sickens me that religious belief remains the root cause of much strife in the world today - religious leaders and many practitioners have obviously NOT learned.

 

Does that deserve criticism and even ridicule?

 

I'd say it does.

 

Directed at individuals? Should be unnecessary if they keep their beliefs to themselves.

 

Don't really want to get into a long winded argument with you AR, you're a poster who I reckon makes a really good contribution to this board and you have my respect.

 

I think my stance really only differs from yours slightly in fact- I actually hold the extremists (for want of a better word, I refer to the ones who are still responsible for some of the horrors in the world and use the excuse of religion to try and justify their actions) in as much contempt and disdain as you do. Throw as much criticism and ridicule their way as you like!

 

Should Christians like Sweeney (I just figured out who you were Sweeney, call me slow!) or Colin Maroon or other people who profess to be Jesus followers have to suffer though because their "movement" has been hijacked by people that want to manipulate it for their own gain? Not IMO. They'll probably not go away and cry about it and I'm sure will appreciate why some people hold the attitudes they do, but that doesn't mean people should see them as fair game.

[ArmiyaRomanova]

Don't really want to get into a long winded argument with you AR, you're a poster who I reckon makes a really good contribution to this board and you have my respect.

 

I think my stance really only differs from yours slightly in fact- I actually hold the extremists (for want of a better word, I refer to the ones who are still responsible for some of the horrors in the world and use the excuse of religion to try and justify their actions) in as much contempt and disdain as you do. Throw as much criticism and ridicule their way as you like!

 

Should Christians like Sweeney (I just figured out who you were Sweeney, call me slow!) or Colin Maroon or other people who profess to be Jesus followers have to suffer though because their "movement" has been hijacked by people that want to manipulate it for their own gain? Not IMO. They'll probably not go away and cry about it and I'm sure will appreciate why some people hold the attitudes they do, but that doesn't mean people should see them as fair game.

 

Likewise Andy... I'd not call it so much an argument as a civil (and entertaining) exchange of views.

 

I'm really no longer interested in questioning the religious beliefs of others (that's their business, not mine), and I'm no authority on the subject - far from it.

 

I do often find it hard, I admit, to separate the core belief system of a religion from its often widely divergent operational practices.

 

I've always looked to the symbolism employed by religions to give me an idea of the 'tone' of the belief system in general, and this respect I find Christianity most disturbing - the image of a tortured man pinned to a stick doesn't seem a healthy one to me. Give me a contemplative or jovial cross-legged fat bloke any day.

 

And on that note, it's late, and I have to brave the bowels of Temple Tesco tomorrow....

[John Titor]

not fussed as i am a misanthrope

[Miller Jambo 60]

Don't really want to get into a long winded argument with you AR, you're a poster who I reckon makes a really good contribution to this board and you have my respect.

 

I think my stance really only differs from yours slightly in fact- I actually hold the extremists (for want of a better word, I refer to the ones who are still responsible for some of the horrors in the world and use the excuse of religion to try and justify their actions) in as much contempt and disdain as you do. Throw as much criticism and ridicule their way as you like!

 

Should Christians like Sweeney (I just figured out who you were Sweeney, call me slow!) or Colin Maroon or other people who profess to be Jesus followers have to suffer though because their "movement" has been hijacked by people that want to manipulate it for their own gain? Not IMO. They'll probably not go away and cry about it and I'm sure will appreciate why some people hold the attitudes they do, but that doesn't mean people should see them as fair game.

 

I do believe in God it certainly helped when my mum died at 43 it was a help at a bad time.

I dont go to church every week but as a child went to sunday school .

my mum and dad never forced the issue and was never really talked about in the home.

everyone to their own and like i said it helped me in 1980.

[Craig R]

Do "religious" people deserve such contempt from you guys just because you don't agree with them?

 

If they are christian enough I'm sure they will forgive me.

[Mr Sifter]

I have no idea. All my brothers' (3) were also christened. Probably the 'done' thing back then? I have a mixed bunch of friends who were christened and some who weren't.

I can tel lyou though that my parent have never even mentioned god or tried to influence my decisions in his name or any of that malarky.

RME as it's called at school theses days isn't too in depth, it's just boring. Good to know some basics of them such as eating habits purely to prevent any confusion or difficult situations later in life.

 

I used to work wi wee Gavo.......Im sure he mentioned he was a practising scientologist once......

 

Maybe I picked him up wrongly.....

[Mr Sifter]

Religion SHOULD be a personal thing.

 

If someone is religious, and lives their lives in accordance with that religion, then fine.

 

It's when it starts affecting others that it becomes an almighty pain in the arse.

 

Going off on a slight tangent, it's worth remembering that almost every war this planet has suffered has been due to religion.......yet Ive yet to come accross a religion that advocates startin wars!

[Walter Payton]

If they are christian enough I'm sure they will forgive me.

 

they probably will- does that make it alright? They might forgive you for assaulting them, I'm not sure if that should convince you it's an acceptable thing to do...

[monkfish1979]

I'm not a christian in any way shape, or form, but it is a hugely personal thing.

 

Personally, I find the idea of blind faith more than just a little bit strange, and I find some people's eagerness to start paggering because somebody else's religious belief doesn't match with theirs absolutely moronic. Also, it seems to me that most people don't have a choice in religion until they've moved away from their family and their beliefs.

 

It's the zealots that I really can't stand. Some freakbag on the bus once informed me (and most of the other folks there) that I was 100% going to hell and peppered me with psychopathically written leaflets depicting random people being crucified. Some homeless mental case (big guy - I think he was called "Kaiser" or some such) got involved and chased the guy off, though. Which was funny.....

[Craig R]

they probably will- does that make it alright? They might forgive you for assaulting them, I'm not sure if that should convince you it's an acceptable thing to do...

 

Same thing right enough.

[bigwull22]

It is pretty scary that people who believe in armaggedon are in charge of the nuclear aresenal, wont the nutters be dissapointed when there is f' all waiting, deeply religious people are the most dangerous on earth

[The Doctor]

It is pretty scary that people who believe in armaggedon are in charge of the nuclear aresenal, wont the nutters be dissapointed when there is f' all waiting, deeply religious people are the most dangerous on earth

 

I think you could say that the most dangerous people on earth are deeply religious, or at least consider themselves to be, but to say that deeply religious people are the most dangerous on earth is a nonsense.

 

Was Mother Theresa dangerous?

Is the Archbishop of Canterbury dangerous?

The Pope?

Billy Graham?

Nicky Gumbel?

 

These gross generalisations are hurtful and insulting. If you made the same generalisation based on race or on physical ability you would be deemed prejudiced and you would be castigated.

[Carl Weathers]

David Attenborough: When asked whether his observation of the natural world has given him faith in a creator, he generally responds with some version of this story:

 

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [i ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy.

[neave]

David Attenborough: When asked whether his observation of the natural world has given him faith in a creator, he generally responds with some version of this story:

 

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [i ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy.

 

How does your 'God' justify that, folks?