Murrayfield

[upgotheheads]

4 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

First option for me is to expand Tynecastle.

 

If that’s not possible then Edinburgh Park as part of the massive redevelopment going on there. Next to the big music venue that’s getting built. Put a lot of thought in to the build like Everton have done so it’s not a soulless bowl. Appreciate we’ve nothing like Everton’s budget 😂

 

Well served by trams, trains, buses and road. Plenty parking.

 

Build plenty capacity for bars and food inside and outside seating. Big German style beer hall with live music and screens.

 

Personally I’d do that before the game and then head back to usual Gorgie watering holes after. 

I'm not so sure it is. It's well served by roads, but those of us who come from a distance, and there are lots of us, and don't want a 4 or 5-hour drive getting to Edinburgh, trains are the easiest way. I can get from Ayr to Tynecastle by train via Haymarket, in about the same time as driving. It's cheaper and a lot more pleasant than driving, often in the dark, over the winter months. The best place for mass entertainment venues is as close as possible to the city centres with train transport, unless we could have a train station there, of course. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

Aye we can just rock up and buy Murrayfield. That's definitely how these things work. 😂 

Edited Wednesday at 13:03 by Thunder and Lightning

[Jambo92]

If we moved to murrayfield, then straight away you loose all demand, people can easily get a ticket, they then don't buy season tickets, form takes a dip and then people don't attend games.  That's before you factor in atmosphere, having 25k people in a 70k stadium is soulless.

 

There's still hundreds if not close to a thousand of seats unoccupied every home game, let's start there first. Then let's focus on how to get more out of our current footprint - standing? Segregation options, remove the wheatfield tunnel? 

 

I'm confident the main stand and wheatfield could be expanded too.  The cost? Probably out weighs the return however.

 

People are desperate to go to games because of the stadium, the set up, the pre and post match routines.  Moving to a massive rugby stadium or some new stadium beside IKEA will rip all that apart.

[jr ewing]

Let's see how this season pans out first. A handy option to have for the European games. 

[Dazo]

Last season we wanted people sacked, the board emptied and  protests(don’t laugh at the back). Now a handful have f games into this season we are buying murrayfield, knocking it down and building a new stadium. 

[davemclaren]

I think our last Murrayfield fixture was 8 years ago today v Kilmarnock. 

 

[OTT]

9 minutes ago, Jambo92 said:

If we moved to murrayfield, then straight away you loose all demand, people can easily get a ticket, they then don't buy season tickets, form takes a dip and then people don't attend games.  That's before you factor in atmosphere, having 25k people in a 70k stadium is soulless.

 

There's still hundreds if not close to a thousand of seats unoccupied every home game, let's start there first. Then let's focus on how to get more out of our current footprint - standing? Segregation options, remove the wheatfield tunnel? 

 

I'm confident the main stand and wheatfield could be expanded too.  The cost? Probably out weighs the return however.

 

People are desperate to go to games because of the stadium, the set up, the pre and post match routines.  Moving to a massive rugby stadium or some new stadium beside IKEA will rip all that apart.

 

I don't think this is strictly true because although you're technically correct, you've got to dig below the surface. 

 

Average attendances are around 18700. Capacity before we lost a few seats to the Wheatfield tunnel, was 19852, this leaves 1152. HOWEVER, we need to consider the segregation in the Roseburn, as well as the lower corner being blocked off too. You're easily talking about a few hundred seats there. I believe we've lost some seats at the corners of the Wheatfield stand too. 

 

Of the remaining, I assume some tickets are reserved for players (for family/friends) and we're then looking at a lot of single seats dotted about which aren't going to get sold, because very few folk under 50 go to the football by themselves. There is also hospitality too. I've said this a few times, but if you're wanting to take your laddie to the game, nobody is going to do that if they have to sit 4/5 rows apart because there aren't seats together, and god help you if you have twins  

 

I don't think any stadium sells 100% of tickets, and its likely for much of the reasons I've mentioned. 

 

TLDR: 

 

I think the unsold seats are a bit of a misnomer. Once you shave off segregation and seats that have been lost since the last official capacity count, what's left aren't easy to shift. If we could wave a magic wand and create a section of 1000 seats tomorrow, we'd sell them easily because walk ups would be able to sit together. 

[upgotheheads]

13 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I don't think this is strictly true because although you're technically correct, you've got to dig below the surface. 

 

Average attendances are around 18700. Capacity before we lost a few seats to the Wheatfield tunnel, was 19852, this leaves 1152. HOWEVER, we need to consider the segregation in the Roseburn, as well as the lower corner being blocked off too. You're easily talking about a few hundred seats there. I believe we've lost some seats at the corners of the Wheatfield stand too. 

 

Of the remaining, I assume some tickets are reserved for players (for family/friends) and we're then looking at a lot of single seats dotted about which aren't going to get sold, because very few folk under 50 go to the football by themselves. There is also hospitality too. I've said this a few times, but if you're wanting to take your laddie to the game, nobody is going to do that if they have to sit 4/5 rows apart because there aren't seats together, and god help you if you have twins  

 

I don't think any stadium sells 100% of tickets, and its likely for much of the reasons I've mentioned. 

 

TLDR: 

 

I think the unsold seats are a bit of a misnomer. Once you shave off segregation and seats that have been lost since the last official capacity count, what's left aren't easy to shift. If we could wave a magic wand and create a section of 1000 seats tomorrow, we'd sell them easily because walk ups would be able to sit together. 

In any crowd of almost 20k there will be some on holiday, in hospital, at weddings or just deid.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

3 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Buy murrayfield area 40-50 million 

Knock stands down 10 million 

New stadium and training ground 150-200 million.

So £250+ million.  Make it happen 

No problem 😊 😁

 

 

 

Read my post thats not what im suggesting.

[jock _turd]

The biggest crowd I have been in at Tynecastle was 37.5k at a new years day derby even if we won the league I honestly do not think we need anywhere near that capacity. If there was some way of increasing the capacity of the ground to 25k that would be all we would need IMO.

[Nookie Bear]

Tynecastle is not big enough to match Bloom's ambition but Murrayfield is too big.

 

The only solution is to somehow redevelop Tynecastle with a monster Wheatfield development...or build a new 35/40k seater somewhere else.

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Tynecastle is not big enough to match Bloom's ambition but Murrayfield is too big.

 

The only solution is to somehow redevelop Tynecastle with a monster Wheatfield development...or build a new 35/40k seater somewhere else.

I’m sure i seen the stade de france has a different setup for the football where the stands are closer to the pitch. 
 

It would be an engineering challenge, but could something similar be retrofitted to murrayfield so its actually dual purpose. A setup like this would reduce the capacity in the football setup but that probably is actually a benefit for us, if the capacity was like 40k?
 

Again i don’t know feasibility, but just in terms of looking to the future for Hearts, I think we will eventually outgrow Tynecastle. Something like this at Murrayfield seems like the most cost-effective option, and with the cash situation the SRU are in, it seems like there could be an opportunity for a deal to be done.

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

I'm not so sure it is. It's well served by roads, but those of us who come from a distance, and there are lots of us, and don't want a 4 or 5-hour drive getting to Edinburgh, trains are the easiest way. I can get from Ayr to Tynecastle by train via Haymarket, in about the same time as driving. It's cheaper and a lot more pleasant than driving, often in the dark, over the winter months. The best place for mass entertainment venues is as close as possible to the city centres with train transport, unless we could have a train station there, of course. 

Does the Ayr train not stop at Edinburgh Park?

[If carlsberg did rivals...]

Would we be allowed to play our European games there while staying at Tynie? If/when we make the Champions league group stage I can see us selling 35K+ for a home game. Imagine we got Newcastle or similar give them 15K and it's close to a sell out.

[Born Again Nade]

10 hours ago, LSC said:

Nothing negative about it even when we “ sell out “ there looks plenty of empty seats dotted around ( people who can’t make it etc ) you honestly think we can add 5 or 10k if you do you’re head needs a wobble I suggest you give it a go 

I'm in no doubt whatsoever. I can do very basic maths. Empty seats don't equal seats available to buy. Dunno how many times we need to go through this. See when you're at the game v Utd, look around and you will see seats. Give your own head a wobble if you think for a second they were available for me to purchase on this occasion.

 

[damo]

57 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I don't think this is strictly true because although you're technically correct, you've got to dig below the surface. 

 

Average attendances are around 18700. Capacity before we lost a few seats to the Wheatfield tunnel, was 19852, this leaves 1152. HOWEVER, we need to consider the segregation in the Roseburn, as well as the lower corner being blocked off too. You're easily talking about a few hundred seats there. I believe we've lost some seats at the corners of the Wheatfield stand too. 

 

Of the remaining, I assume some tickets are reserved for players (for family/friends) and we're then looking at a lot of single seats dotted about which aren't going to get sold, because very few folk under 50 go to the football by themselves. There is also hospitality too. I've said this a few times, but if you're wanting to take your laddie to the game, nobody is going to do that if they have to sit 4/5 rows apart because there aren't seats together, and god help you if you have twins  

 

I don't think any stadium sells 100% of tickets, and its likely for much of the reasons I've mentioned. 

 

TLDR: 

 

I think the unsold seats are a bit of a misnomer. Once you shave off segregation and seats that have been lost since the last official capacity count, what's left aren't easy to shift. If we could wave a magic wand and create a section of 1000 seats tomorrow, we'd sell them easily because walk ups would be able to sit together. 

Wasting your time trying to explain this.

 

Despite the fact our average attendance runs at 97-99 % of our maximum allowed capacity for the last 3 or 4 seasons, we have some fans it seems that think the appearance of some empty seats on match day or the fact Ticket Exchange tickets do not get snapped up within the first minute of being released as justification we are fine as we are.

 

Stadiums the world over which are "sold out" before the match will have empty seats for one reason or another. 

 

Reducing away fans from 650 > 150 could bring the season ticket waiting list down from 7000 to 6500. Small wins and all that . 

 

 

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

Let's concentrate about player sales that can fund this first 👍. 

[Born Again Nade]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

The biggest crowd I have been in at Tynecastle was 37.5k at a new years day derby even if we won the league I honestly do not think we need anywhere near that capacity. If there was some way of increasing the capacity of the ground to 25k that would be all we would need IMO.

A new year's day derby during periods of perennial bridesmaid to Rantic does not equal the demand there would be for a properly successful Hearts side. 25k would eliminate the 2023-24 ST waiting list (again during a period of perennial bridesmaid) with still limited walk-ups and still limited away sections. So while it would be something, it would still lead to lost matchday revenue and disconnect between club and supporters.

The only thing that could kibosh my current POV would be if the club were straight up lying about the ST waiting list. Almost all on said list are NOT "fairweather/gloryhunting" fans. More likely lapsed ST holders like I and/or now with kids in tow, again like I. Add in the guaranteed hordes of newcomers that would appear if we started winning leagues and regular cups, then we are probably at about half the capacity required for all but the lowest category matches, which I'm sure my kids and I would still be amongst the hardcore at.

Only have to look at the League Cup matches for evidence. Big games attract the whole range of support. Games vs lower league and/or unglamourus SPL hoofballers when we are a question mark of a team only attract the historic/current hardcore.

Edited Wednesday at 14:48 by Born Again Nade

[avhudtheteeshirt]

On 25/09/2025 at 14:15, johnking123 said:

We talking buying it? Would not like to rent it. Buy it and shape it to our needs. Then yes

Why buy it, all the German teams don't own their grounds, and I think Italy and France the same.

Its a big expenditure plus maintenance, rent and someone else is getting it ready for only one game a week.

I know that the German teams have vast training facilities with hotel on site and medical and physical facilities that they own.

These are used on a daily basis, so well worth investment.

 

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, Born Again Nade said:

A new year's day derby during periods of perennial bridesmaid to Rantic does not equal the demand there would be for a properly successful Hearts side. 25k would eliminate the 2023-24 ST waiting list (again during a period of perennial bridesmaid) with still limited walk-ups and still limited away sections. So while it would be something, it would still lead to lost matchday revenue and disconnect between club and supporters.

The only thing that could kibosh my current POV would be if the club were straight up lying about the ST waiting list. Almost all on said list are NOT "fairweather/gloryhunting" fans. More likely lapsed ST holders like I. Add in the guaranteed hordes of newcomers that would appear if we started winning leagues and regular cups, then we are probably at about half the capacity required for all but the lowest category matches, which I'm sure my kids and I would still be amongst the hardcore at.

Only have to look at the League Cup matches for evidence. Big games attract the whole range of support. Games vs lower league when we are a question mark of a team only attract the historic/current hardcore.

Easy to be on the waiting list. Does not mean everyone will want to take up the opportunity to buy. 

[Born Again Nade]

4 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Let's concentrate about player sales that can fund this first 👍. 

I think that's exactly what the club are doing Bongo. They will surely have behind the scenes plans/ambitions, but it's fun to imagine the potential and talk about, for me at least. Some posters absolutely hate it, of that I have no doubts. Not sure why, but I'll never figure that out so I don't really care.

[Born Again Nade]

Just now, jr ewing said:

Easy to be on the waiting list. Does not mean everyone will want to take up the opportunity to buy. 

Sure, not everyone will still be in the same position to do so as they were a year/2/3/4 years ago. Even if half the list were to suddenly find the seats available today, that's 19,000 season ticket holders. I'd like us not to have to split an away stand for the bigger supported visitors personally, so the idea that 25k would be all we'd ever need is pretty unambitious and, in my opinion, unrealistic.

PS - It's not actually easy to be on the waiting list, as they stopped taking names in March 2024. Rather, it's impossible if you want to join it now.

[spirt of 98]

2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

What would happen if our games clashed with Rugby matches, which would happen quite often?

.

Move the day - simples 

[4marsbars]

37 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Does the Ayr train not stop at Edinburgh Park?

 

Yes, if you change at Linlithgow, easy enough (not that I want us to move to EP).

[pettigrewsstylist]

Cavern, support would go down, not up.

Matchday experience 1/10.

[Byyy The Light]

41 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

Yes, if you change at Linlithgow, easy enough (not that I want us to move to EP).

 

Cool cheers. I thought it was a stop on the Queens st line.

 

No I don't either. 

 

I do think it will become a genuine conversation at some point in the next 5 years, and for me it is more realistic than anything to do with Murrayfield.

 

 

[stirlo]

1 hour ago, damo said:

Wasting your time trying to explain this.

 

Despite the fact our average attendance runs at 97-99 % of our maximum allowed capacity for the last 3 or 4 seasons, we have some fans it seems that think the appearance of some empty seats on match day or the fact Ticket Exchange tickets do not get snapped up within the first minute of being released as justification we are fine as we are.

 

Stadiums the world over which are "sold out" before the match will have empty seats for one reason or another. 

 

Reducing away fans from 650 > 150 could bring the season ticket waiting list down from 7000 to 6500. Small wins and all that . 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes - it's weird how many folk cannot seem to understand this. They say that the current capacity is adequate for our current needs when we actually have a waiting list for season tickets with thousands on it. And we have numerous posters on here who have confirmed they are on said waiting list and have been for a considerable time.

 

As you correctly point out there are stadiums all over the place - including some very big teams - who frequently have a certain number of empty seats in a 'sold out' stadium. This has very little to do with a lack of demand for those seats.

 

Anyone with any ambition for HMFC knows that we seriously need to be looking at the options for expansion/relocation in the medium term.

[Halliphax]

1 hour ago, damo said:

Wasting your time trying to explain this.

 

Despite the fact our average attendance runs at 97-99 % of our maximum allowed capacity for the last 3 or 4 seasons, we have some fans it seems that think the appearance of some empty seats on match day or the fact Ticket Exchange tickets do not get snapped up within the first minute of being released as justification we are fine as we are.

 

Stadiums the world over which are "sold out" before the match will have empty seats for one reason or another. 

 

Reducing away fans from 650 > 150 could bring the season ticket waiting list down from 7000 to 6500. Small wins and all that . 

 

 

 

 

I said this to some of the old lads I go to the game with last week: I really wish you could put tickets on the exchange in advance and not only when the game has sold out. 
 

There’s maybe a good reason for it that I’m not privy too but a lot of the time those empty seats could be folk who can’t make it but couldn’t sell their ticket because John Smith doesn’t want to buy the last remaining tickets in the far corner of the nosebleed section on his own…

[Serge Pizzorno]

I thought this thread had died a death. Get to ****

[Born Again Nade]

1 minute ago, Serge Pizzorno said:

I thought this thread had died a death. Get to ****

As he bumps it to the top of the Terrace…

 

😉

[SUTOL]

50 minutes ago, Halliphax said:

I said this to some of the old lads I go to the game with last week: I really wish you could put tickets on the exchange in advance and not only when the game has sold out. 
 

There’s maybe a good reason for it that I’m not privy too but a lot of the time those empty seats could be folk who can’t make it but couldn’t sell their ticket because John Smith doesn’t want to buy the last remaining tickets in the far corner of the nosebleed section on his own…

 

 

You can list your season ticket on the exchange for any home game in advance (pre-split).  

 

It won't be available to buy till the exchange opens, when the available non-exchange tickets are all sold. 

 

There may be a way the club could look at it, so that if the exchange isn't open your ticket can still be sold, but you don't get anything back for it. But that could end up being an administrative nightmare. 

[jock _turd]

2 hours ago, Born Again Nade said:

A new year's day derby during periods of perennial bridesmaid to Rantic does not equal the demand there would be for a properly successful Hearts side. 25k would eliminate the 2023-24 ST waiting list (again during a period of perennial bridesmaid) with still limited walk-ups and still limited away sections. So while it would be something, it would still lead to lost matchday revenue and disconnect between club and supporters.

The only thing that could kibosh my current POV would be if the club were straight up lying about the ST waiting list. Almost all on said list are NOT "fairweather/gloryhunting" fans. More likely lapsed ST holders like I and/or now with kids in tow, again like I. Add in the guaranteed hordes of newcomers that would appear if we started winning leagues and regular cups, then we are probably at about half the capacity required for all but the lowest category matches, which I'm sure my kids and I would still be amongst the hardcore at.

Only have to look at the League Cup matches for evidence. Big games attract the whole range of support. Games vs lower league and/or unglamourus SPL hoofballers when we are a question mark of a team only attract the historic/current hardcore.

A lot of wishful thinking in there. I doubt even a successful Hearts team will draw more than 25k for any game other than against Hibs or the OF and those extra customers would be from the opposition.

[Born Again Nade]

25 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

A lot of wishful thinking in there. I doubt even a successful Hearts team will draw more than 25k for any game other than against Hibs or the OF and those extra customers would be from the opposition.

There’s 7000 people on a waiting list that closed 18months ago for season tickets.

 

If I’m wishfully thinking you’re completely out of touch with reality and showing zero ambition. Works both ways.

[Libertarian]

On 25/09/2025 at 14:11, Francis Albert said:

Talk on another thread about the need for a 30000 capacity at Tynie. Which the way things are going is not outrageous. But there is no way we will add 10k at Tynie. Murrayfield was rightly rejected when regular 10000 to 12000 crowds were normal. But now? 

Screen off the top tiers and put in temporary seating behind the goals and on the running track and you.

 have a great option.with further room for expansion.

Braga was fun

 

Like every Hearts Supporter I love Tynecastle but it is increasingly obvious that we need a much bigger capacity.  As you quite rightly point out moving to Murrayfield would give the club much more scope to expand and grow with options to turn it into a football stadium with a proper football atmosphere. Hearts would at least have to be co-owners to make it work though. 

[jock _turd]

14 minutes ago, Born Again Nade said:

There’s 7000 people on a waiting list that closed 18months ago for season tickets.

 

If I’m wishfully thinking you’re completely out of touch with reality and showing zero ambition. Works both ways.

 

Fine while we are playing well but a very expensive millstone round our club's neck when we are not. A new 25 to 30k stadium is going to cost around 30- 40 million £'s or much more I don't know these things ? But one stand cost us a fortune. I really do not think the board are even contemplating anything like this at all. 

Edited Wednesday at 17:41 by jock _turd

[Bongo 1874]

2 hours ago, Born Again Nade said:

I think that's exactly what the club are doing Bongo. They will surely have behind the scenes plans/ambitions, but it's fun to imagine the potential and talk about, for me at least. Some posters absolutely hate it, of that I have no doubts. Not sure why, but I'll never figure that out so I don't really care.

I'm all for it mate 👍personally don't want to move away from tynecastle and would like to think we can achieve over 30k on current site,but need the money first.

[Born Again Nade]

26 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Fine while we are playing well but a very expensive millstone round our club's neck when we are not. A new 25 to 30k stadium is going to cost around 30- 40 million £'s ?

The 7000 ST waiting list did not come about whilst we were playing well (ok at times we were but not challenging for anything except 3rd place which is the norm for decades on the park) and we have been chucking several hundred k if not millions of away ticket revenue away every season that we have not been able to fulfil away demand also. Nevermind home demand which is even more significant.
 

In addition we cannot accommodate families/groups/tourists/neutrals.

 

On top of all that, the boomers are the richest generation in history, living longer and many of them are taking up seats that they may not have afforded in previous decades or now have the the free time to do so since retirement.

 

Many factors at play. Our crowds have been on the up since levein’s first spell in charge, were boosted by the VR years, galvanised by the club’s near death experience and would’ve been higher before all that had it not been for a distinct lack of unity within the club and many guys refusing to go back while mercer/robinson were in charge or even certain managers.

 

Basic facts:

7000 people on a waiting list as of end of 23-24 season.
Away supports limited to a few hundred from 2000-3500 and all the lost revenue that entails.

An ageing support while football at other venues has seen an increase in young people wanting to become “ultras”

Our own ultra section being tinpot and limited to 200 seats.

Walkup fanbase (or those unable to afford STs) alienated from the routine of supporting their team.

Unambitious curmudgeons forcing their opinions as facts.

An ambitious, wealthy business team seeking to become consistent challengers at odds with the last point.

We don’t know what the costs would be of a Wheatfield extension/rebuild, re roofing the lot and filling corners or what have you.

Plucking random figures out of your arse and posting it as fact weakens an argument, not strengthens.

None of the figures I’ve ever stated on this topic are plucked from my arse. They are based on accepted, recorded demand.

(Unless the club are liars.)

It’s not your club it’s all of ours. You have as much right to watch your team in the flesh as I do. IE none if you listen to the opinions of some folk on this forum. 
 

If Tony Bloom listened to the likes of them he’d run a bloody mile.
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 18:06 by Born Again Nade

[Libertarian]

23 minutes ago, Born Again Nade said:

The 7000 ST waiting list did not come about whilst we were playing well (ok at times we were but not challenging for anything except 3rd place which is the norm for decades on the park) and we have been chucking several hundred k if not millions of away ticket revenue away every season that we have not been able to fulfil away demand also. Nevermind home demand which is even more significant.
 

In addition we cannot accommodate families/groups/tourists/neutrals.

 

On top of all that, the boomers are the richest generation in history, living longer and many of them are taking up seats that they may not have afforded in previous decades or now have the the free time to do so since retirement.

 

Many factors at play. Our crowds have been on the up since levein’s first spell in charge, were boosted by the VR years, galvanised by the club’s near death experience and would’ve been higher before all that had it not been for a distinct lack of unity within the club and many guys refusing to go back while mercer/robinson were in charge or even certain managers.

 

Basic facts:

7000 people on a waiting list as of end of 23-24 season.
Away supports limited to a few hundred from 2000-3500 and all the lost revenue that entails.

An ageing support while football at other venues has seen an increase in young people wanting to become “ultras”

Our own ultra section being tinpot and limited to 200 seats.

Walkup fanbase (or those unable to afford STs) alienated from the routine of supporting their team.

Unambitious curmudgeons forcing their opinions as facts.

An ambitious, wealthy business team seeking to become consistent challengers at odds with the last point.

We don’t know what the costs would be of a Wheatfield extension/rebuild, re roofing the lot and filling corners or what have you.

Plucking random figures out of your arse and posting it as fact weakens an argument, not strengthens.

None of the figures I’ve ever stated on this topic are plucked from my arse. They are based on accepted, recorded demand.

(Unless the club are liars.)

It’s not your club it’s all of ours. You have as much right to watch your team in the flesh as I do. IE none if you listen to the opinions of some folk on this forum. 
 

If Tony Bloom listened to the likes of them he’d run a bloody mile.
 

 

I don't believe it, a post on kickback upon which I agree with every word written. 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, avhudtheteeshirt said:

Why buy it, all the German teams don't own their grounds, and I think Italy and France the same.

Its a big expenditure plus maintenance, rent and someone else is getting it ready for only one game a week.

I know that the German teams have vast training facilities with hotel on site and medical and physical facilities that they own.

These are used on a daily basis, so well worth investment.

 

 

I have bleated to death that it's very likely possible to expand Tynecastle, it's just too expensive for us to do at the moment. I stand by that, but that's still based only on what's publicly available. It's entirely possible that there's non-public reasons why it's impossible. (I repeat, I have yet to see ANYTHING public that would suggest that it's impossible rather than currently cost prohibitive so assuming it's impossible is highly irrational, but anyway.)

 

Setting that aside for now, let's for the moment suppose that all avenues for getting Tynecastle to the 30-35k range are closed and it just can't be done. In that case, the long term solution is going to be Murrayfield.

 

Rather than building an entirely new stadium, it's a far better use of funds to approach SRU to say, Murrayfield is a nice big stadium but it's not in the best nick and it's bad for football. We'll rock up with a capital investment of £30m and a rental agreement that will cover operating costs, in exchange for some major improvements that make it better for football (get rid of the damned track) and improve the fan experience. I'd be in favor of that.

 

As you say, there's no necessity to own the ground, but we would need significant control over parts of it, including some maroon trim in places to make us not feel like temporary houseguests perpetually. I think SRU would be very open to a long-term operating agreement with the right amount of investment. And, that investment would almost certainly get us a lot more "bang for buck" than a new purpose-built stadium, plus we'd get to stay just across the tracks from Gorgie.

Edited Wednesday at 18:32 by Watt-Zeefuik

[Watt-Zeefuik]

29 minutes ago, Born Again Nade said:

The 7000 ST waiting list did not come about whilst we were playing well (ok at times we were but not challenging for anything except 3rd place which is the norm for decades on the park) and we have been chucking several hundred k if not millions of away ticket revenue away every season that we have not been able to fulfil away demand also. Nevermind home demand which is even more significant.
 

In addition we cannot accommodate families/groups/tourists/neutrals.

 

On top of all that, the boomers are the richest generation in history, living longer and many of them are taking up seats that they may not have afforded in previous decades or now have the the free time to do so since retirement.

 

Many factors at play. Our crowds have been on the up since levein’s first spell in charge, were boosted by the VR years, galvanised by the club’s near death experience and would’ve been higher before all that had it not been for a distinct lack of unity within the club and many guys refusing to go back while mercer/robinson were in charge or even certain managers.

 

Basic facts:

7000 people on a waiting list as of end of 23-24 season.
Away supports limited to a few hundred from 2000-3500 and all the lost revenue that entails.

An ageing support while football at other venues has seen an increase in young people wanting to become “ultras”

Our own ultra section being tinpot and limited to 200 seats.

Walkup fanbase (or those unable to afford STs) alienated from the routine of supporting their team.

Unambitious curmudgeons forcing their opinions as facts.

An ambitious, wealthy business team seeking to become consistent challengers at odds with the last point.

We don’t know what the costs would be of a Wheatfield extension/rebuild, re roofing the lot and filling corners or what have you.

Plucking random figures out of your arse and posting it as fact weakens an argument, not strengthens.

None of the figures I’ve ever stated on this topic are plucked from my arse. They are based on accepted, recorded demand.

(Unless the club are liars.)

It’s not your club it’s all of ours. You have as much right to watch your team in the flesh as I do. IE none if you listen to the opinions of some folk on this forum. 
 

If Tony Bloom listened to the likes of them he’d run a bloody mile.
 

 

Excellent post.

[Libertarian]

10 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

I have bleated to death that it's very likely possible to expand Tynecastle, it's just too expensive for us to do at the moment. I stand by that, but that's still based only on what's publicly available. It's entirely possible that there's non-public reasons why it's impossible. (I repeat, I have yet to see ANYTHING public that would suggest that it's impossible rather than currently cost prohibitive so assuming it's impossible is highly irrational, but anyway.)

 

Setting that aside for now, let's for the moment suppose that all avenues for getting Tynecastle to the 30-35k range are closed and it just can't be done. In that case, the long term solution is going to be Murrayfield.

 

Rather than building an entirely new stadium, it's a far better use of funds to approach SRU to say, Murrayfield is a nice big stadium but it's not in the best nick and it's bad for football. We'll rock up with a capital investment of £30m and a rental agreement that will cover operating costs, in exchange for some major improvements that make it better for football (get rid of the damned track) and improve the fan experience. I'd be in favor of that.

 

As you say, there's no necessity to own the ground, but we would need significant control over parts of it, including some maroon trim in places to make us not feel like temporary houseguests perpetually. I think SRU would be very open to a long-term operating agreement with the right amount of investment. And, that investment would almost certainly get us a lot more "bang for buck" than a new purpose-built stadium, plus we'd get to stay just across the tracks from Gorgie.

I would feel uneasy if we didn't at least co-own the stadium. To be tenants wouldn't be in the long term interests of the club. 

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

 

Fine while we are playing well but a very expensive millstone round our club's neck when we are not. A new 25 to 30k stadium is going to cost around 30- 40 million £'s or much more I don't know these things ? But one stand cost us a fortune. I really do not think the board are even contemplating anything like this at all. 

I remember when Leeds and Coventry invested in a new stand and both went bust trying to pay for it. 

[Libertarian]

3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

I remember when Leeds and Coventry invested in a new stand and both went bust trying to pay for it. 

That is not a reason for Hearts not to be investigating every possible option for increasing the home capacity and maximising revenue, which can then be ploughed back into the playing side of the club.  Whilst Tynecastle currently is a wonderful theatre for football,  it is however patently too small and this is not good for the future health of the club. 

[Born Again Nade]

Just now, Libertarian said:

I would feel uneasy if we didn't at least co-own the stadium. To be tenants wouldn't be in the long term interests of the club. 

I’m not a fan of Murrayfield at all but that doesn’t mean we couldn’t modify it to better suited for football. 
 

I agree that rental is a no-go. Co ownership would also be off the table unless we really kick on from here. I’d like to think that if we had the money to do that then we’d have the money to fully redevelop Tynecastle. Irony being we’d play at MF again while that happened and get far bigger crowds than many people thought possible. Who’d have thought a fairly poor and 3rd place at best Hearts team managed by levein would pull 17000 home fans there or 23000 home fans there v rangers (I’ve deliberately not mentioned away crowds of 7000 and 10000 respectively) but that’s what is actually possible in Scotland and at a mediocre Hearts despite our self-denigration. 
 

For a Hearts team of this quality in the hunt for major honours we could add at least 5000 to the home end and be hitting 30k v the sheep and 40k v rangers. Who knows for a derby?

 

I repeat - i don’t want that but the figures can’t be denied.

[Born Again Nade]

13 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

I remember when Leeds and Coventry invested in a new stand and both went bust trying to pay for it. 

Nothing to do with being terribly ran and overpaying for below par players then? I remember when Celtic went from 14000 fans pre Fergus to a 60,000 seater stadium mostly filled after him but that doesn’t suit any doomsday-style argument. 

Edited Wednesday at 18:56 by Born Again Nade

[Jacques de Gauthier]

Who’s to say Murrayfield will be big enough?

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I think our last Murrayfield fixture was 8 years ago today v Kilmarnock. 

 

Went to those- food was great, atmosphere was awful 

[Bongo 1874]

6 minutes ago, Born Again Nade said:

Nothing to do with being terribly ran and overpaying for below par players then? I remember when Celtic went from 14000 fans pre Fergus to a 60,000 seater stadium mostly filled after him but that doesn’t suit any doomsday-style argument. 

Would u rather we stayed at tynecastle and do you think over 30k can be achieved on current site?

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Would u rather we stayed at tynecastle and do you think over 30k can be achieved on current site?

not on the current footprint..says the ceo. 

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, davemclaren said:

not on the current footprint..says the ceo. 

What stops us from achieving this on current footprint ?