Murrayfield

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Considering a good number of supporters deliberately avoid games vs the Old Firm, yes I dispute that we'd attract 27,000 at this point in time. Unless you're talking of giving them around 4/5,000 tickets.

 

Without being rude, I'm at Tynecastle every game and can see quite clearly how full the place actually is every week. And I've been there for games when the place is missing about 6/7,000 on the gate and it's depressing. Arbitrarily adding an extra 10,000 onto the capacity of the place because we'd get a few more folk in the door for the derby is as silly as your suggestion that we should move the Christmas game to Murrayfield.

 

Let's see how quickly we sell out our next home cup tie to judge whether we need a 30,000 capacity stadium.

Or if the results don't go our way over the next few weeks. 

[The Hogfather]

12,940 for the game vs Dunfermline, 8,722 for Dumbarton.

 

Imagine playing both those games in a 30,000 stadium. Grim.

[chrisyboy7]

2 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

12,940 for the game vs Dunfermline, 8,722 for Dumbarton.

 

Imagine playing both those games in a 30,000 stadium. Grim.

Glad your not on the board 

 

If your basing our needs on games like this your completely bonkers.

 

[The Hogfather]

Just now, jr ewing said:

Or if the results don't go our way over the next few weeks. 

 

Absolutely. I vividly remember our game against Rangers in the Scottish Cup in 2020 right before Covid hit.

 

Struggling in the league, 3 wins in 10. 11,428 with Rangers having the full Roseburn.

[johnking123]

6 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

12,940 for the game vs Dunfermline, 8,722 for Dumbarton.

 

Imagine playing both those games in a 30,000 stadium. Grim.

Not as grim as your chat 🙂

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Absolutely. I vividly remember our game against Rangers in the Scottish Cup in 2020 right before Covid hit.

 

Struggling in the league, 3 wins in 10. 11,428 with Rangers having the full Roseburn.

 

I'm imagining a future where we never need to play those games because we're qualifying for Europe every season  

[hmfc_74]

2 hours ago, johnking123 said:

35.000 seater at Carrick Knowe, with space to increase. Retractable roof and pitch for concerts, boxing or wrestling. 200 plus parking spaces and a tram stop. Plus council still have a 9-12 hole golf course and tynecastle to build houses on. But let's beat Falkirk first!

This is the answer long term, even if we can get Tynecastle up to 30k we'd be at a dead end if we have growth beyond this which surely has to be the aim. 

 

Murrayfield is far too big, we really don't want to lose the atmosphere. A larger replica of Tynecastle with lots of to expand is what we will need.

Edited September 25 by hmfc_74

[The Hogfather]

2 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Not as grim as your chat 🙂

 

Better grim than painfully irrelevant old chap.

[The Hogfather]

Just now, OTT said:

 

I'm imagining a future where we never need to play those games because we're qualifying for Europe every season  

 

A Scottish Cup quarter final?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Re the first point about ST holders in the Roseburn stand, its made clear  by the cub that anyone buying a ST seat there won't be able to sit there at a Hibs match.  Not ideal from the fan's point of view, but its actually maximising the income Hearts get for his seat.

 

I fully understand why the club does it, but in terms of latent demand, is there really any thought that those ST holders *wouldn't* take an option to see the derby if they were allowed?

 

5 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Considering a good number of supporters deliberately avoid games vs the Old Firm, yes I dispute that we'd attract 27,000 at this point in time. Unless you're talking of giving them around 4/5,000 tickets.

 

Without being rude, I'm at Tynecastle every game and can see quite clearly how full the place actually is every week. And I've been there for games when the place is missing about 6/7,000 on the gate and it's depressing. Arbitrarily adding an extra 10,000 onto the capacity of the place because we'd get a few more folk in the door for the derby is as silly as your suggestion that we should move the Christmas game to Murrayfield.

 

Let's see how quickly we sell out our next home cup tie to judge whether we need a 30,000 capacity stadium.

 

Point taken, and if I'm getting annoyed it's because I think the primary point keeps getting missed.

 

I don't want us to rush out and build a 30k stadium now. We don't have the funds. But if we had one, it would be making money for us.

 

As an example, Tannadice holds over 14k. Our match there this season had 10,874, or roughly 75% full. Did anyone look around and think, "the problem with Tannadice is it's just too big?" Against Kilmarnock last season they had 8.4k. Does that mean they should shrink Tannadice? 

 

It's nice to have a sold out Tynecastle for atmosphere, but it's money the club is foregoing. It's casual fans losing a chance to build a stronger relationship with the club. If a midweek cup game can't pack the place out, well, last season I see Everton only got 33k for a midweek cup game, what ****ing mugs they must be to have gone and built a 52k stadium that they're now filling for pretty much every league game.

[The Hogfather]

3 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

I fully understand why the club does it, but in terms of latent demand, is there really any thought that those ST holders *wouldn't* take an option to see the derby if they were allowed?

 

 

Point taken, and if I'm getting annoyed it's because I think the primary point keeps getting missed.

 

I don't want us to rush out and build a 30k stadium now. We don't have the funds. But if we had one, it would be making money for us.

 

As an example, Tannadice holds over 14k. Our match there this season had 10,874, or roughly 75% full. Did anyone look around and think, "the problem with Tannadice is it's just too big?" Against Kilmarnock last season they had 8.4k. Does that mean they should shrink Tannadice? 

 

It's nice to have a sold out Tynecastle for atmosphere, but it's money the club is foregoing. It's casual fans losing a chance to build a stronger relationship with the club. If a midweek cup game can't pack the place out, well, last season I see Everton only got 33k for a midweek cup game, what ****ing mugs they must be to have gone and built a 52k stadium that they're now filling for pretty much every league game.

 

There's still ample opportunity for casual fans to build a relationship with the club. Between walk up tickets and the Ticket Exchange there are still chances to get tickets for most games. Yes, some miss out on the derby but I wouldn't expect to just be able to get a ticket for the Manchester Derby because I'd like one. 

 

And, again, my point is that I don't believe the demand is currently there to justify another 5/10,000 seats added onto the capacity at this time. Not that Tynecastle should never be redeveloped or expanded ever again. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

7 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

And, again, my point is that I don't believe the demand is currently there to justify another 5/10,000 seats added onto the capacity at this time. Not that Tynecastle should never be redeveloped or expanded ever again. 

 

We clearly disagree on this point so not much sense going another round about it. 

 

[kila]

Long term future I reckon is Tynecastle becomes the women's stadium and we move to a new ground further west. Decade at least away from that though.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Let's see how the season pans out. 

A lot of fantasy going on.

[jbee647]

4 hours ago, michaeljambo22 said:

At least when we try Tynecastle has a decent atmosphere! Move us to Murrayfield and that would kill any kind of  atmosphere, if the time comes think we will need to build a new stadium similar to Tynecastle but bigger if upgrading Tynecastle is impossible 

The West Ham example should completely kybosh any ridiculous idea of moving to Murrayfield.

[Bill Sikes]

Mission accomplished by the OP.

[Francis Albert]

Ok. We just accept that 20k  is as  big as we get

 

[Luckies1874]

1 hour ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Good for them.

 

 

Even if we increased away capacity to somewhere around 1,500, that's not getting filled by anyone other than Aberdeen and the Old Firm. It's still a hell of a jump to suggest we're locking out 3,500 home fans every week.

 

Nonsense. 3000 Falkirk ST holders applied for the 600 odd tickets they got from Hearts for Saturday. Tynecastle is the match most away fans look forward to each season. Anyone out with Livvy would likely sell 1500 tickets currently. 

[Luckies1874]

29 minutes ago, kila said:

Long term future I reckon is Tynecastle becomes the women's stadium and we move to a new ground further west. Decade at least away from that though.

 

I'm pretty sure the significant money the land that Tynecastle is on will be required towards costs of any new stadium! 

[The Hogfather]

1 minute ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Nonsense. 3000 Falkirk ST holders applied for the 600 odd tickets they got from Hearts for Saturday. Tynecastle is the match most away fans look forward to each season. Anyone out with Livvy would likely sell 1500 tickets currently. 

 

And it, of course, has nothing to do with this being the first decent stadium they've played at since they came up.

 

Let's see how high their demand is when they're back again.

[Luckies1874]

Just now, The Hogfather said:

 

And it, of course, has nothing to do with this being the first decent stadium they've played at since they came up.

 

Let's see how high their demand is when they're back again.

 

 

  So upon finding out your point was incorrect you changed your point to attempt to fit your narrative! 

[The Hogfather]

2 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

  So upon finding out your point was incorrect you changed your point to attempt to fit your narrative! 

 

You read that and thought I was changing my point? Weird, maybe you should read it again. 

 

3,000 applications for this game doesn't mean they're selling 1,500 every time they come to Tynecastle. Their first trip to the capital on league business in 15 years. We sold our allocation for Ibrox in a couple of hours. Does that mean we're always going to do that? No, it doesn't.

[Luckies1874]

2 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

You read that and thought I was changing my point? Weird, maybe you should read it again. 

 

3,000 applications for this game doesn't mean they're selling 1,500 every time they come to Tynecastle. Their first trip to the capital on league business in 15 years. We sold our allocation for Ibrox in a couple of hours. Does that mean we're always going to do that? No, it doesn't.

 

 

You said nobody outside the Old Firm and Aberdeen were selling 1500 tickets. That was shown to be bollocks against the team we play in 48 hrs time! 

Edited September 25 by Luckies1874

[The Hogfather]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

You said nobody outside the Old Firm and Aberdeen were selling 1500 tickets. That was shown to be bollocks against the team we play in 48 hrs time! 

 

I didn't realise they sold 1,500 tickets for the game in 48 hours. That's good of them.

[kila]

19 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I'm pretty sure the significant money the land that Tynecastle is on will be required towards costs of any new stadium! 

 

I guess we'll find out how much Bloom loves us when the time comes  

 

[johnking123]

1 hour ago, The Hogfather said:

12,940 for the game vs Dunfermline, 8,722 for Dumbarton.

 

Imagine playing both those games in a 30,000 stadium. Grim.

Man City played port vale a few seasons ago. 4,995 attended the game. Low attendances happen, but we are looking up. We could lose on Saturday, we are still growing as a club.

[jambo-in-furness]

2 hours ago, LSC said:

What a pile of p!$$ even when we sell out there’s empty seats Falkirk hearts is never getting 30k there’s nothing worse than a half empty stadium ask H1b5 they give tickets away. Very soon football will be available to stream they can’t stop it they’ll have to join in and do it 20 is indeed plenty 

Valid point tbf

[1971fozzy]

3 hours ago, Serge Pizzorno said:

Gtf with this pish. 

This

[jr ewing]

45 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

The West Ham example should completely kybosh any ridiculous idea of moving to Murrayfield.

Only use when required. 

[The Hogfather]

13 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Man City played port vale a few seasons ago. 4,995 attended the game. Low attendances happen, but we are looking up. We could lose on Saturday, we are still growing as a club.

 

Yes, we absolutely are. But to expand the current stadium is going to take a hell of a lot of money. Money that we should be focusing on the team pushing for more honours imo.

[The new West End]

The sooner we start playing games again the better!!

Build up demand slowly but organically.. 2 or 3 seasons of sell outs will have people salivating

[1971fozzy]

I never want to leave Tynecastle. We fought tooth and nail and to go to a soulless murrayfield that holds over 3 times the capacity would be suicide.  Imagine season like last ? Would be horrendous. Tynecastle has history and a special atmosphere. Let’s see if we can expand when the time comes 

[Des Lynam]

No to Murrayfield from me as the atmosphere would be dreadful compared to Tynecastle. It's our spiritual home! The stadium you were taken as a wee boy wide eyed and in awe of the noise and bad language. There is no chance such a move is even being considered at board level. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

52 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

The West Ham example should completely kybosh any ridiculous idea of moving to Murrayfield.

Saddens me to this day saw some great performances at the legendary Boleyn ground. From away teams. Used to go there to watch the top sides batter west ham, saw Torres for Liverpool, Rooney and Ronaldo for Man U, Bale for Tottenham all absolutely destroy West Ham. Great memories of a great ground

[whodanny]

Yer hunners o miles fae the pitch at Murrayfield, for that reason alone NUT!

[OTT]

52 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

The West Ham example should completely kybosh any ridiculous idea of moving to Murrayfield.

 

Yeah, Murrayfield isn't a very good stadium for what we need. We do not need a 67k capacity stadium, even half that is pushing things a bit. 

 

I would like to see a significantly larger Wheatfield stand that took us to 28k. We'd basically have a 25k home end, which is enough to grow into in the medium term. Against Celtic, Rangers & Hibs, we'd have full houses. In Europe, I'd expect close to capacity crowds, and against Aberdeen we'd likely see close to capacity crowds there too. 

 

I think its all reciprocal, if Jamestown can deliver quality players that has us punching for silverware, we're seeing genuinely decent players coming through - not journeymen types that achieve nothing, then I suspect we'll see the numbers of fans needed get behind the time to justify that kind of expansion. People want to watch winning football. 

 

Some posters seem to take the view that we're somehow unique in world football, and cannot allow a single unsold seat. If you're not a season ticket holder, try and organise going to the game with a few of your mates with a weeks notice. Close to impossible, and we're selling out v bloody Falkirk 2 weeks before the game!! 

[The new West End]

24 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Man City played port vale a few seasons ago. 4,995 attended the game. Low attendances happen, but we are looking up. We could lose on Saturday, we are still growing as a club.

 

If your talking about the 2019 FA cup tie it was 52,000 with 8k Port Vale fans there

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I never want to leave Tynecastle. We fought tooth and nail and to go to a soulless murrayfield that holds over 3 times the capacity would be suicide.  Imagine season like last ? Would be horrendous. Tynecastle has history and a special atmosphere. Let’s see if we can expand when the time comes 

Too many getting carried away with the good start to the season.

What could possibly go wrong.

[1971fozzy]

15 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Too many getting carried away with the good start to the season.

What could possibly go wrong.

I hope obviously that Jamestown propels us but the murrayfield talk is brutal. Tynecastle is special and to go through what we all did , well it was for a reason. Never lose our soul 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I hope obviously that Jamestown propels us but the murrayfield talk is brutal. Tynecastle is special and to go through what we all did , well it was for a reason. Never lose our soul 

Spot on.

[Costanza]

Don't own the ground so you're at risk of change in circumstances with no ground.

Absolutely p1sh to watch football in.

 

Nope.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

I'm pretty sure the significant money the land that Tynecastle is on will be required towards costs of any new stadium! 

 

When we were in admin that was generously deemed to be worth about £3-5m. With the housing market pressure I imagine that's gone up but it's still not enough to pay for much of any part of a new stadium.

[GrimUpNorth]

Would rip the soul out of the club. Murrayfield would have zero atmosphere at the best of times. Let's actually try and consistently sell out Tynecastle over a number of years before we start all this talk, not just when we go on a good bit of form.

[Luckies1874]

2 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

When we were in admin that was generously deemed to be worth about £3-5m. With the housing market pressure I imagine that's gone up but it's still not enough to pay for much of any part of a new stadium.

 

Fair enough but I very much doubt we are retaining and therefore maintaining Tynecastle for the ladies team! 

[Bungalow Bill]

We’re funny football fans, we have a 67000 seater on our doorstep, its kind of mad to not use it on the occasions we’d need it. 

[Cruyff]

We can get 30,000 on the current site. 

 

Murrayfield is for egg chucking. 

[1971fozzy]

22 minutes ago, Bungalow Bill said:

We’re funny football fans, we have a 67000 seater on our doorstep, its kind of mad to not use it on the occasions we’d need it. 

What occasions ?  Barcelona friendlies ?

[Bungalow Bill]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

What occasions ?  Barcelona friendlies ?

Occasions where there’s a substantial demand for tickets above the Tynecastle capacity. Amazed I had to spell that out to be honest. 

Edited September 25 by Bungalow Bill

[Gorgiewave]

We don't "need" a 30,000 stadium, but if we had one we would, if the away support were allowed to vary, get that or close to it against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs. We got 26,190 against Ferencvaros, 27,272 against Schalke, 28,486 against Siroki Brijeg and 32,459 against AEK Athens. We got 24,748 against Aberdeen at Murrayfield. I don't think Siroki Brijeg are more attractive opposition than Petrocub, RFS, Infotel or Birkirkara. Against Liverpool and Spurs we might have got closer to 40,000.

 

We wouldn't get attendances in the high 20,000s against Livingston or Ross County, but if doing well and qualifying for Europe we might do so 10+ times a season. That is, we could add 100,000 a year to aggregate attendances.

Edited September 25 by Gorgiewave

[Jambos_1874]

Celtic's average home league attendance during the 1980s was approx 25k, and in the 2010s it was 51k. Their maximum attendance was 62k in 1988, so they weren't limited by ground capacity. The 1980s were fairly successful for them, with five league titles, but by no means their best decade (especially the tail end), whereas in the 2010s they won it every year bar one. The point I'm making is that with Edinburgh's population growing, and us potentially being very successful, we could significantly increase our attendances, if capacity allowed. I'm absolutely not proposing a move to Murrayfield, which would be shite IMO, but just trying to use a vaguely sensible reference point to illustrate that attendances can grow massively with success. So, if we get on the right track, we really could see a bg increase in demand and might have a dilemma on our hands. Just for avoidance of doubt, I despise celtic.

Edited September 25 by Jambos_1874