Kier Mcmeekin to Man City

[Gorgierools]

1 minute ago, TexasAndy said:

Jim McLean was right to tie down his youth players early on long contracts albeit 10 years was too much.  It was the only way he could build a team which he did successfully.  The crux of our 86 team was based on Robbo, Mackay, Levein (bought from Cowden).  It appears under the current structure that it would be impossible for us to build from youth as they are being tapped even before they hit puberty.  Sad really as there is nothing like seeing a young player come through.  

Don’t think we’re allowed legally to do so

[Batistuta9]

19 minutes ago, Gorgierools said:

Don’t think we’re allowed legally to do so

 

We're not. You can't sign as a professional until you're 16 and it would be for a maximum of 3 years. Once you're 18 the maximum is 5 years. 

Most clubs will only have their top U18s signed on professional contracts and they'll review annually. Only if they have a top, top talent will they try to sign them for the maximum 3y and even then the player might be reluctant to commit to a 3y deal since they can potentially sign a 5y deal when they're 18. 

 

[Footballfirst]

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

[BigStein]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

In the short term it’s a choice between playing in Man City reserves or playing in Hearts reserves.
 

I’m sure there will be a clear pathway for our young players in the coming years but for now I can understand where these kids are coming from

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

 

Its a difficult one because Celtic have lost some great players to English teams, as have Rangers. If the youngster is taken in by the idea of being in an EPL academy, I don't think much of what anyone can offer will dissuade them of that.

 

James Wilson and family, were very open to taking a breath and thinking about longer term best interests and the value of first team football. Unfortunately, not every family has that foresight, and the cash and other incentives which come along with it make that even more difficult.

 

I do think this is going to sting our national team in 5/10 years time very, very badly. Any youngster that can pass a ball semi-competently is being swept up to jersey fill in English academies at the expense of genuine development in the first team in Scotland. When you look at the benefit of first team football for David Watson, Lennon Millar, John McGinn, Aaron Hickey, Lewis Ferguson, David Turnbull, Kenny Mclean, Scott McKenna, John Souttar vs the ones that have ran away to hide in an academy till their 23... its night and day.

 

I bet that Hearts had a pretty decent plan for how McMeekin was to develop here, as I suspect we do for James Wilson. Outside of vague promises to get him to sign, I doubt Man City have that same plan because he will not make it through to the first team for them to care, its about a few loan moves and then turfing him out to a Championship team for c£500k-£1m. There will be coaches at Hearts that have worked with the lad from very young, that genuinely care about his development, at City or Utd, he is a number there to help ease financial fair play constraints. 

 

TBH I think it needs government intervention to prevent. Brexit is devastating our academies. Football is a unique industry, and does need exemptions etc. so that it can operate in line with other countries. 

 

If this continues to happen, then there is a serious question about scaling down academy investment until the problem is addressed because it is looking like a waste of time and money. 

[GorgieRules22]

16 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

Good to see boys doing well within the academy and attracting interest from English sides. Unfortunately that’s just something that will continue to happen if boys are shining. 
 

Hearts under 14’s and under 13’s got a bit of a going over from Hibs yesterday at the Oriam 4-0 and 11-2 … has to be better than that.

[Taffin]

21 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

 

If it was an independent football academy, I'd say a success. It isn't though, so developing players for other teams for near enough no return seems clearly a failure.

[jamboinglasgow]

20 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

 

I still think Scottish football needs to kick up a fuss. May prove to be fruitless, but a PR campaign to put pressure on the premier league (I know Championship clubs have done it as well.) I know the clubs are not helping by not providing pathways, but I also think what we are seeing from English clubs is the equivalent of bottom trawling in fishing, grabbing any potential talent on mass from Scottish clubs leaving damage to the Scottish football as clubs would traditionally raise them, play them and reap a good reward which can help grow the game. 

 

One thing I wish football would do is bring in major limits on the amount of young players clubs (in particular elite clubs) can sign for their youth teams and bring in caps on how much money clubs can spend on youth signings (something which is not at the moment so is a loophole.) The point Chelsea and Man City turned their youth system into a way of factory farming youngsters to sell and not use in their first teams, mainly to get around financial rules, is when the whole system was ruined. It changes the relationship of young players to clubs, changes why youngsters are being signed and encourages mass recruitment of young players so if you sign 10, and 1 makes it to the first team, and 3 are sold on for good money, then you will make a big profit to subsidise your first team.

 

Its just messed up (and sadly the premier league did the same to the lower leagues of England with EPPP.)

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I still think Scottish football needs to kick up a fuss. May prove to be fruitless, but a PR campaign to put pressure on the premier league (I know Championship clubs have done it as well.) I know the clubs are not helping by not providing pathways, but I also think what we are seeing from English clubs is the equivalent of bottom trawling in fishing, grabbing any potential talent on mass from Scottish clubs leaving damage to the Scottish football as clubs would traditionally raise them, play them and reap a good reward which can help grow the game. 

 

One thing I wish football would do is bring in major limits on the amount of young players clubs (in particular elite clubs) can sign for their youth teams and bring in caps on how much money clubs can spend on youth signings (something which is not at the moment so is a loophole.) The point Chelsea and Man City turned their youth system into a way of factory farming youngsters to sell and not use in their first teams, mainly to get around financial rules, is when the whole system was ruined. It changes the relationship of young players to clubs, changes why youngsters are being signed and encourages mass recruitment of young players so if you sign 10, and 1 makes it to the first team, and 3 are sold on for good money, then you will make a big profit to subsidise your first team.

 

Its just messed up (and sadly the premier league did the same to the lower leagues of England with EPPP.)

 

I like that - limit the players that can be signed into academy at 15/16 so it means that the academy actually has to function using the youth in the community that the academy has been set up (originally) to serve. 

 

The factory farming is horrid and needs stopped. Islam Feruz ruined his career going to Chelsea. Billy Gilmour had to go to Brighton to actually make his career... these aren't youth systems with the players future in mind IMO. 

 

As a supporter, there is nothing better than seeing local laddies breaking through. Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, King, Wilson - even the ones that don't necessarily make it, they play for the badge and its great to see. 

 

Feels like we're being robbed and left with the ones that have very little chance of actually making it. 

[kingantti1874]

**** Man City, lads been here since he was what 6/7 years old and they just poach him.  The state of football now. 
 

 

total joke. 

 

[Lone Striker]

What enforceable rules are there (if any) to provide worthwhile compensation for the club which  developed a 15yo lad in their academy  when he gets nicked  by another club ?     

 

As a poster said above, the irony is that our academy is then left to produce teenage talent that none of the elite club academies think are good enough for them.

Edited October 5, 2025 by Lone Striker

[bobby bombscare]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

**** Man City, lads been here since he was what 6/7 years old and they just poach him.  The state of football now. 
 

 

total joke. 

 

Problem is, from his point of view, we can't get anywhere near what man city will pay and we have a relatively poor progression pathway to pur first team. We've had Hickey but other than that, its been Irvine to some austrian third tier side and Wilson not getting a game (though thats the way it should be if he's not the best player for the position). 

 

So we cant offer money and we can't show a track record of developing youth in the first team and moving them on to bigger clubs... no brainer for the boy and his famly. 

 

Only way we can stop it is by petitioning the scottish government or if we start properly developing youth into first team regulars that move onto bigger things so we can sell the pathway.

Edited October 5, 2025 by bobby bombscare

[jamboinglasgow]

12 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I like that - limit the players that can be signed into academy at 15/16 so it means that the academy actually has to function using the youth in the community that the academy has been set up (originally) to serve. 

 

The factory farming is horrid and needs stopped. Islam Feruz ruined his career going to Chelsea. Billy Gilmour had to go to Brighton to actually make his career... these aren't youth systems with the players future in mind IMO. 

 

As a supporter, there is nothing better than seeing local laddies breaking through. Gordon, Berra, Wallace, Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, King, Wilson - even the ones that don't necessarily make it, they play for the badge and its great to see. 

 

Feels like we're being robbed and left with the ones that have very little chance of actually making it. 

 

I know there is an argument that top clubs in Scotland do it to clubs down the ladder, and to me that isn't a reason to shrug and say thats ok, thats more a reason to reform it everywhere including Scotland.

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I know there is an argument that top clubs in Scotland do it to clubs down the ladder, and to me that isn't a reason to shrug and say thats ok, thats more a reason to reform it everywhere including Scotland.

 

Thing for me is, that domestically, its done with the best intentions. We're not trying to conform to some FFP criteria. We're genuinely just trying to promote young Scottish laddies because we're a Scottish club. 

 

English clubs are doing a factory farming meat grinder exercise to try and produce enough talent to make sure they can punt them to EFL sides and help justify ridiculous spending at first team level. 

 

If the issue is that clubs further down in the pyramid aren't making enough to sustain what they're doing, then lets have a conversation about increasing development fees, and solidarity fees to help promote and reward youth development. 

Edited October 5, 2025 by OTT

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

I'd personally dissolve the academy but Tony Bloom wants it so I'm fine with it.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I honestly think a bigger league and/or a new structure would help. More games against smaller clubs would give more games where they could find a place.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

I honestly think a bigger league and/or a new structure would help. More games against smaller clubs would give more games where they could find a place.

Given that regulation is actually more likely to happen than a bigger league...

 

Personally, I don't really care that much about this. If a player sees the pound signs early (or their family, more realistically) then who can blame them? The real issue we are complaining about is not the "player development", it is the asset maximisation we potentially miss out on.

[Dick Dastardly]

15 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

I honestly think a bigger league and/or a new structure would help. More games against smaller clubs would give more games where they could find a place.

I'm with you on that

[kingantti1874]

37 minutes ago, bobby bombscare said:

Problem is, from his point of view, we can't get anywhere near what man city will pay and we have a relatively poor progression pathway to pur first team. We've had Hickey but other than that, its been Irvine to some austrian third tier side and Wilson not getting a game (though thats the way it should be if he's not the best player for the position). 

 

So we cant offer money and we can't show a track record of developing youth in the first team and moving them on to bigger clubs... no brainer for the boy and his famly. 

 

Only way we can stop it is by petitioning the scottish government or if we start properly developing youth into first team regulars that move onto bigger things so we can sell the pathway.

dont blame the lad. Blame the system.  
 

still **** him if he goes.  I wouldn’t watch a second of football were it not for hearts so once they go whatever. 
 

I suppose I’m angry about this one as this kid is without doubt special. Won’t be surprised to see city sell him for big big numbers in future and we will see pennies 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, GorgieRules22 said:

Good to see boys doing well within the academy and attracting interest from English sides. Unfortunately that’s just something that will continue to happen if boys are shining. 
 

Hearts under 14’s and under 13’s got a bit of a going over from Hibs yesterday at the Oriam 4-0 and 11-2 … has to be better than that.

The same thing happens all the way through the pyramid from 5 years old upwards.   It’s just more structured today. There’s no way to stop kids/parents wanting to move on to ‘better things’ - grass is always greener.  The class structure in youth football in Scotland is very similar.  We are getting to the point where academies are stopping their kids from playing school football at primary school level.  It’s just a joke.  No sympathy for the academies who then lose their best players to bigger academies. 

[Footballfirst]

I've said it before, that there are far too many kids in pro youth academies.  It would be much better for Scottish football to focus their funding and coaching development into the few real talents around.

 

I was speaking to an SFA rep at the Oriam this afternoon. He told me that he was asked to watch the Alloa U19s v Edinburgh City U19s game this morning before attending the Hearts U17 game.  I asked him what was the value in watching such a game at Alloa, when all the best talent is already at the elite academies. Short of identifying the very occasional late developer in those games, he agreed that the focus should only be on the truly elite group of players and let they rest play in a grass roots environment.

[Lone Striker]

35 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Given that regulation is actually more likely to happen than a bigger league...

 

Personally, I don't really care that much about this. If a player sees the pound signs early (or their family, more realistically) then who can blame them? The real issue we are complaining about is not the "player development", it is the asset maximisation we potentially miss out on.

Well.. sort of.   But its more than that - its that Man City's academy is   even more unlikely  to  develop the kid into a first team player at their level in their league than we are for our league.  

 

[naeclue]

McInnes said that Man City's offer is more than Hearts top wage. 

 

There is so much cash swirling around down there, they can just ping a 5 figure weekly salary offer as a first contract. 

Edited October 5, 2025 by naeclue

[OTT]

9 minutes ago, naeclue said:

McInnes said that Man City's offer is more than Hearts top wage. 

 

There is so much cash swirling around down there, they can just ping a 5 figure weekly salary offer as a first contract. 

 

If they're offering him that kind of money, they should be paying us a development fee which is commensurate with that sort of salary offer. 

 

Whole system is ****ed.  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

14 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Well.. sort of.   But its more than that - its that Man City's academy is   even more unlikely  to  develop the kid into a first team player at their level in their league than we are for our league.  

 

Are they though? I've no idea how good this kid is but the real ability for any youngster is the willingness to learn and desire to achieve. A lot get a big pay cheque and think they have made it already. The point being it's on him as to how far he goes.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

If they're offering him that kind of money, they should be paying us a development fee which is commensurate with that sort of salary offer. 

 

Whole system is ****ed.  

Again, at least be honest about the player development angle. We are really moaning about potentially losing out on a big transfer fee more than how this kid goes on in his career.

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Again, at least be honest about the player development angle. We are really moaning about potentially losing out on a big transfer fee more than how this kid goes on in his career.

 

Well, Hearts have developed the laddie since he was 7 years old. Man City have came in at the 11th hour. 

 

Personally, I like seeing youngsters breaking through. But if they're going to bugger off down south before we get that opportunity, then absolutely I think we should get a more significant transfer fee than the pocket change and a snickers the development fee equates to.

 

Its a ridiculous system that needs severely restricted. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, OTT said:

 

Well, Hearts have developed the laddie since he was 7 years old. Man City have came in at the 11th hour. 

 

Personally, I like seeing youngsters breaking through. But if they're going to bugger off down south before we get that opportunity, then absolutely I think we should get a more significant transfer fee than the pocket change and a snickers the development fee equates to.

 

Its a ridiculous system that needs severely restricted. 

How though? The only people who could do "something" are UEFA and they aren't going to take on the big clubs over something like this.

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How though? The only people who could do "something" are UEFA and they aren't going to take on the big clubs over something like this.

 

Not my job, I think its a shit system, which was my point. It won't get fixed any time soon. Not whilst top clubs are able to benefit in the way they do. 

[Lone Striker]

11 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Are they though? I've no idea how good this kid is but the real ability for any youngster is the willingness to learn and desire to achieve. A lot get a big pay cheque and think they have made it already. The point being it's on him as to how far he goes.

Well yes, but  sheer statistics  shows the scale of difficulty facing any promising youngster hoping to make it into a club's first team.

 

Looking at Man City's website squad of 32, only 4 came through their academy (1 of them is a goalie).    Its very likely that a lot of their other academy kids were good players and would probably walk into Hearts first team, but were deemed not good enough for the  Man City first team squad.     

 

A major reason for that  is simply that City have the  money required to buy ready-made world class players like Haaland and Bernardo Silva.     Its actually the same as what Hearts have just done - James Wilson can't get a regular place because Tony Bloom's money & recruitment analytics tool  enabled us to buy & pay players like Braga & Kyziridis with more experience and proven skill at first-team level than him.  

 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

48 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've said it before, that there are far too many kids in pro youth academies.  It would be much better for Scottish football to focus their funding and coaching development into the few real talents around.

 

I was speaking to an SFA rep at the Oriam this afternoon. He told me that he was asked to watch the Alloa U19s v Edinburgh City U19s game this morning before attending the Hearts U17 game.  I asked him what was the value in watching such a game at Alloa, when all the best talent is already at the elite academies. Short of identifying the very occasional late developer in those games, he agreed that the focus should only be on the truly elite group of players and let they rest play in a grass roots environment.

 

It's the same in the US with all sports, unfortunately. Parents driving their kids around all weekend, spending two nights a week for months on end in a motel, disrupting schooling, all convinced that their kid will get a college scholarship, maybe a pro career. Hundreds of thousands of kids, a couple hundred full pro jobs available. And the leagues and the promoters making absolute bank on all of these dreams set to be shattered.

[Jambo92]

Wish him luck but have said several times, seen this story so many times over the years.  Very very few will make it going down that path, however money talks and equally a chance he doesn't progress if he stayed here so it makes sense to take the money.

 

As for the academy, with our new recruitment model, don't really see the need for it. 

[chrisyboy7]

How much did we get

[soonbe110]

10 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I've said it before, that there are far too many kids in pro youth academies.  It would be much better for Scottish football to focus their funding and coaching development into the few real talents around.

 

I was speaking to an SFA rep at the Oriam this afternoon. He told me that he was asked to watch the Alloa U19s v Edinburgh City U19s game this morning before attending the Hearts U17 game.  I asked him what was the value in watching such a game at Alloa, when all the best talent is already at the elite academies. Short of identifying the very occasional late developer in those games, he agreed that the focus should only be on the truly elite group of players and let they rest play in a grass roots environment.

👏👏100% agree. 

[soonbe110]

10 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Again, at least be honest about the player development angle. We are really moaning about potentially losing out on a big transfer fee more than how this kid goes on in his career.

Exactly.  If we were getting £5m for him lots on here would be praising the academy. 
Websters staff have done a great job getting the lad to Man City, if it happens. 

[FIGJAM]

15 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Update on the story from the DR with Keir seemingly favouring City over United.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-youngster-set-snub-man-36016183

 

A snippet at the end the article also alludes to two others in the same age group (2010s) attracting interest from EPL clubs, Boyd Fraser and Peter Kellock.  (Boyd was outstanding in todays U17 win over Aberdeen).

 

If all three leave, then what does it say about the academy?  Is it a success for identifying and developing three quality players? Is it a failure because the players never played for the first team (they can't until they are 16 anyway). Alternatively, is it a failure of the Club to offer the best youngsters a competitive package and maintain an open pathway to the first team. That pathway has seemingly closed given the scale of the recruitment over the summer, perhaps encouraging the youngsters to leave,

Pathway to the first team is fluid and very much determined by First Team Mgr. Webster and entire Academy staff can only do so much. It is clear Keir and the other elite 2010s have come along at a really bad time for the opportunity to be given first team minutes. Indeed not sure much opportunity for players under 23 just now. But as we know in football, it all changes very quickly.

 

[JamboJoker98]

If pathway to the first team was the concern, he wouldn't be going to Man City, let's face it.

 

Sadly these PL can blow our wages out the water - for them it is win-win scenario and can hoover up talent on relative pennies, as the profits they make from this method down the line make it worth their while.

 

Can't blame the kid for taking a great wage and having these teams on their CV

[Taffin]

14 hours ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

I'd personally dissolve the academy but Tony Bloom wants it so I'm fine with it.

 

I'm curious as to what his game is with the academies. Ours is just a cost on the P+L and when you've got the best data led scouting system in the world...why would you even bother trying to produce your own even putting aside that the good ones get poached as the percentage that are a success are absolutely minimal

 

[Taffin]

13 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Again, at least be honest about the player development angle. We are really moaning about potentially losing out on a big transfer fee more than how this kid goes on in his career.

 

I'd rather he became a first team star and then we got big money for him. That's the dream.

 

But money or minutes are both a financial ROI for the club. Which, doesn't really matter, but it has to be one of them.

 

Currently the academy by and large produces neither.

[Lovecraft]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm curious as to what his game is with the academies. Ours is just a cost on the P+L and when you've got the best data led scouting system in the world...why would you even bother trying to produce your own even putting aside that the good ones get poached as the percentage that are a success are absolutely minimal

 

My guess is that he still wants the clubs to feel local.

 

There should always be a pathway for local young players if they want it.

 

 

[briever]

15 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Its a difficult one because Celtic have lost some great players to English teams, as have Rangers. If the youngster is taken in by the idea of being in an EPL academy, I don't think much of what anyone can offer will dissuade them of that.

 

James Wilson and family, were very open to taking a breath and thinking about longer term best interests and the value of first team football. Unfortunately, not every family has that foresight, and the cash and other incentives which come along with it make that even more difficult.

 

I do think this is going to sting our national team in 5/10 years time very, very badly. Any youngster that can pass a ball semi-competently is being swept up to jersey fill in English academies at the expense of genuine development in the first team in Scotland. When you look at the benefit of first team football for David Watson, Lennon Millar, John McGinn, Aaron Hickey, Lewis Ferguson, David Turnbull, Kenny Mclean, Scott McKenna, John Souttar vs the ones that have ran away to hide in an academy till their 23... its night and day.

 

I bet that Hearts had a pretty decent plan for how McMeekin was to develop here, as I suspect we do for James Wilson. Outside of vague promises to get him to sign, I doubt Man City have that same plan because he will not make it through to the first team for them to care, its about a few loan moves and then turfing him out to a Championship team for c£500k-£1m. There will be coaches at Hearts that have worked with the lad from very young, that genuinely care about his development, at City or Utd, he is a number there to help ease financial fair play constraints. 

 

TBH I think it needs government intervention to prevent. Brexit is devastating our academies. Football is a unique industry, and does need exemptions etc. so that it can operate in line with other countries. 

 

If this continues to happen, then there is a serious question about scaling down academy investment until the problem is addressed because it is looking like a waste of time and money. 

 

Spot on, agree with everything you've said 👍

[Threedoorsdown]

We only care because the lad has potential. We turf youngsters out all the time, we are cut throat as are other teams. Brighton do well because they recruit players or develop players that are close to first team level. These youngsters stick around at Brighton because it's clear they will get a chance. 

 

We need more Hickey's than Bobby McLuckies but unfortunately so does everyone else - no disrespect to Bobby, just the first name that popped into my head.

Edited October 6, 2025 by Threedoorsdown

[RustyRightPeg]

2 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

My guess is that he still wants the clubs to feel local.

 

There should always be a pathway for local young players if they want it.

 

 

There should be kids teams, no doubt. 
 

My opinion is that from 18s the players should just go into a “B team” but in League 1/2 (similar to Germany or Spain - obviously this won’t happen).
 

The alternative is to just get them out on loan and get the players as high into the pyramid as possible. Obviously, the recent intro of collaboration clubs means this will probably happen going forward.

 

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

My guess is that he still wants the clubs to feel local.

 

There should always be a pathway for local young players if they want it.

 

 

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but how's he going to do that I guess is more the question because that isn't what we see happening.

 

They're either good and leave, or not good enough and don't make it. Sure Hickey, blah, we still even managed to fudge that up too. 

 

There would still be a pathway without the academy, it would be performing at a lower club...which we've had far better returns from for both club and player.

 

[RustyRightPeg]

Just now, Threedoorsdown said:

We only care because the lad has potential. We turf youngsters out all the time.

How dare we care about losing our young players with high potential 

[Threedoorsdown]

Just now, RustyRightPeg said:

How dare we care about losing our young players with high potential 

 

Being that touchy I'd guess you must be on divorce number 2 by now. Calm down son.

[RustyRightPeg]

1 minute ago, Threedoorsdown said:

 

Being that touchy I'd guess you must be on divorce number 2 by now. Calm down son.

What’s touchy? Do you not have any substance to your post or were you just looking for “bites” just to be controversial?

[Threedoorsdown]

6 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

What’s touchy? Do you not have any substance to your post or were you just looking for “bites” just to be controversial?

 

There was nothing controversial in my post Rusty, it's all in your head. 

[tartofmidlothian]

40 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm curious as to what his game is with the academies. Ours is just a cost on the P+L and when you've got the best data led scouting system in the world...why would you even bother trying to produce your own even putting aside that the good ones get poached as the percentage that are a success are absolutely minimal

 

 

32 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

My guess is that he still wants the clubs to feel local.

 

There should always be a pathway for local young players if they want it.

 

 

 

Partly what Lovecraft said, I think, but what youth level does Jamestown hold stats for? If we were able to gather together the best youths in Scotland and sell them on for 200k here or 500k there down to England, with some occasionally making 1m+, that would be a great use of the academy.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

 

Partly what Lovecraft said, I think, but what youth level does Jamestown hold stats for? If we were able to gather together the best youths in Scotland and sell them on for 200k here or 500k there down to England, with some occasionally making 1m+, that would be a great use of the academy.

 

It would. That's what I'm curious about. He's very, very clearly no mug but at face value the academy is just a money and resource sink. So there has to be more to it.

 

The challenge I guess is even getting the 500k etc in the current set up though I think.

Edited October 6, 2025 by Taffin