Kier Mcmeekin to Man City

[Forrest]

It's an absolute disgrace that the youth system has descended to this. It's obviously not just us that it affects. Rangers losing Gilmour was a fairly high profile one, and it will happen to clubs all over England too. 

 

It's always going to be the case that the best players get picked up by bigger clubs. But that should be because they actually want them, not because they're hoovering up every decent young player they can find to pad out 20 academy teams in the hope of selling a few and trying to maintain some semblance of financial fair play. There should be proper compensation payable immediately, and through sell-ons which follow on through the career, for the clubs which are doing the groundwork in the development of these players. 

[Avgotnuffinleft]

Scrap the academy until safeguards are in place for Scottish clubs selling youth players. It's a complete and utter waste of money. 

[Hømme]

All the "why bother?" folk should try watching the club enter the SPFL / Europe without an academy and see what happens.

[Dougie Masterton]

Why is a 15 yo allowed to play for Arsenal first team, but in Scotland you can’t? 

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, westbow said:

Man City and Chelsea seem to be among the worst offenders. Buy cheap, hoard talent, profit later. Individuals after a few years , if they are good, join the loan army, if very good get sold at a profit or kept on. The teams they are hoovered up from get small compensation. 

 

CHELSEA

 

Declan Rice
Midfielder
West Ham United (via West Ham)
2017 (initial), full sale 2021
£7m (initial), add-ons up to £10m

 

Tammy Abraham Striker Roma 2021 £34m

 

Fikayo Tomori Defender AC Milan 2021
£25m

 

Marc Guehi Defender Crystal Palace
2021 £18m

Tino Livramento Defender Southampton
2021 £5m (initial), add-ons to £10m

 

Conor Gallagher Midfielder Atletico Madrid 2024 £33m

 

Mason Mount Midfielder Manchester United 2023 £55m

 

Armando Broja Striker Burnley 2025
£30m

Omari Hutchinson Winger Ipswich Town
2024 £20m (approx.)

 

Ian Maatsen Defender Aston Villa 2024
£37.5m

Lewis Hall Defender Newcastle United
2023 £28m (obligation)

 

Ruben Loftus-Cheek Midfielder AC Milan 2023 £12m

 

Earlier Notable Sales (2010–2021)
These laid the foundation for Chelsea's academy reputation, including £163.5m generated from 2017–2022 alone.

Kevin De Bruyne Midfielder Wolfsburg
2014 £18m

 

Romelu Lukaku Striker Everton 2014
£28m (second spell)

 

Mohamed Salah Winger Roma 2015
£12m (second spell)

Kurt Zouma Defender Stoke City (loan then sale) 2017 £8m

 

Nathan Ake Defender Bournemouth
2017 £20m

 

Dominic Solanke Striker Liverpool 2017
£8m

Total Revenue Impact: The 2022–2025 period alone hit £250m+, with Broja's sale pushing it over that mark. This has enabled £250m+ in new signings while staying PSR-compliant.

 

MAN CITY 

 

Manchester City's academy has become one of Europe's most lucrative youth systems, generating over £583 million in sales revenue since 2014 alone—accounting for nearly half of the club's total transfer income in that period.

 

Recent Sales (2020–2025)

 

The last five years have seen a boom, with £250+ million raised amid PSR pressures, including a £156 million haul in 2023 alone.

Cole Palmer Midfielder Chelsea
2023 £42.5m

 

Romeo Lavia Midfielder Southampton
2022 £10m (up to £22.5m)

James Trafford Goalkeeper Burnley
2023 £15m (up to £19m)

 

Pedro Porro Defender Sporting CP
2022 £7.7m (up to £17.4m)

 

Carlos Borges Midfielder Ajax 2023
£17.2m

Shea Charles Midfielder Southampton
2023 £15m (up to £18m)

 

Gavin Bazunu Goalkeeper Southampton
2022 £9m (up to £12m)

 

Sam Edozie Winger Southampton
2022 £3m (up to £7m)

 

Juan Larios Defender Southampton
2022 £6m (up to £8m)

 

Darko Gyabi Midfielder Leeds United
2023 £5m (up to £8m)

 

James McAtee Midfielder 2025 £15m+ 

Liam Delap Striker Ipswich Town
2024 £20m

 

Taylor Harwood-Bellis Defender
Southampton 2024 £20m (approx.)

 

Tommy Doyle Midfielder Wolves
2024 £5m (option activated)

 

 

[Graham Thomson]

Moving forward I don't actually see JTA and the academy working well together.

One of the points in JTA is buy players develop them and sell them on and make a profit. 

Repeat.

The amount of work and money put into the academy, potentially taken them from 6 years old through to 16 or 17 and they might or might not make it, we might get nothing back after 10 years of investment in the player.

 

If JTA works well we will be looking at specific players who can do well for a few years and then sell on for a decent profit.

Much simpler, btw I don't know how much the academy costs to run each year.

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

So £75m+ in the bank and several first teamers? Sounds like a decent return on investment.

 

What we need to do as a club is ensure we become an attractive enough option for young players to stay on, so surely the key is to develop the academy's facilities and make sure we're producing young players who're good enough for the first team.

 

Besides, both Tony Bloom and James Anderson are massively focused on the community aspect of the club, so closing the academy is never going to happen.

 

£125 million from White, Ferguson and Sanchez

 

Brighton & Hove Albion's Category 1 academy (Lancing facility) has established the club as a model for youth development, producing pure profit on sales since academy graduates cost £0 to acquire.

 

While Brighton's overall player trading model (buy low, sell high) has generated over £500 million in revenue since 2017,

[Thought Police]

We don't really demonstrate to young players that they'll get a chance here though. James Wilson the latest who'll be on his way out.

[westbow]

25 minutes ago, Hømme said:

All the "why bother?" folk should try watching the club enter the SPFL / Europe without an academy and see what happens.

For UEFA competitions with a 25 man squad you need 4 club trained and 4 local association trained players according to the interweb. I presume it’s a minimum of four club trained. Didn’t know that.

Edited September 23 by westbow
.

[FIGJAM]

58 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

For me, JTA has completely cut off any route that might have existed for a young player to establish himself in Hearts first team. Look at Wilson for an example of what I mean. On the verge of being an automatic choice not so long ago he’s been usurped by 3 or 4 players we’ve signed and he’s gone backwards significantly in the pecking order, so much so that I believe he’ll let his contract run out and go somewhere else for nothing.(development fees apart) 

 

There is no benefit whatever to the club in developing young players when the priority at the club is the JTA  model as we’re using it. We don’t gain financially and we don’t grow our own first team players.

 

It might be temporary of course but the structure of Scottish football below first team level isn’t helping either. The leap from age group football to first team football is huge and the loan system isn’t working either. See Kirk and Tait as examples of that. Both had very good loan spells but came back still nowhere near the first team

 

Ive advocated scrapping the academy for a good few years now. It’s a complete and utter waste of money, especially now with what we’re doing with JTA

Interestingly the JTA approach should place a greater focus on youth as one of the KPIs they look to introduce (Brighton and USG) a healthy % of First Team squad coming from Academy. It all matters not a jot if First Team Manager does not play youth.

[GinRummy]

19 minutes ago, Thought Police said:

We don't really demonstrate to young players that they'll get a chance here though. James Wilson the latest who'll be on his way out.

They're hardly going to get a chance at Man City before us though are they.

[Taffin]

The academy is a waste of time and money imo. The best ones will leave like this and we'd get better ROI (both sporting and financial) on using the budget on Jamestown players

Edited September 23 by Taffin

[Thought Police]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

They're hardly going to get a chance at Man City before us though are they.

Might as well take the money now though. Also likely better development and then a decent career in league 1/championship. Harry Stone should have jumped when he had the chance.

[JimmyCant]

14 minutes ago, westbow said:

For UEFA competitions with a 25 man squad you need 4 club trained and 4 local association trained players according to the interweb. I presume it’s a minimum of four club trained. Didn’t know that.

We’ll almost always have 4 association trained players in and around the first team. It’s the 4 club trained we’ll have an issue with.

 

But it doesn’t really matter that much if you’ve got a good match day squad if 18 or so because the club trained players are just making up the numbers anyway if you have that quality in your top 18 players

 

Plus you can pick whoever you want from your B list at any time

[LordLucan]

I see lots of posts about money, the parents, the academy but none about what the lad might want.  I'd imagine most academies get the chance to play south of the border and I'd be surprised if clubs in Scotland have the facilities to match premiership clubs.  Most kids would likely want to play at the best facilities, with and against the best players.  They'll already have had a taste of this if they've travelled to play in England.  With the new age groups for this year and what's happening to some clubs dropping age groups and closing academies the amount of games getting played is less.  Not really the best when all you want to do is play.  If you can't get that in Scotland and have the opportunity to do it elsewhere then why would you not consider it.  Looking at the current set up I very much doubt in practice there is a route to the first team and the same would apply if heading south, but there's more likely to be more and better options if it doesn't work out.

[JimmyCant]

10 minutes ago, FIGJAM said:

Interestingly the JTA approach should place a greater focus on youth as one of the KPIs they look to introduce (Brighton and USG) a healthy % of First Team squad coming from Academy. It all matters not a jot if First Team Manager does not play youth.

What percentage of the Current Brighton and USG squads came through their respective academies ?

[Taffin]

42 minutes ago, Hømme said:

All the "why bother?" folk should try watching the club enter the SPFL / Europe without an academy and see what happens.

 

What would happen? 

 

You don't need an academy and certainly not one you invest heavily in to satisfy the club trained criteria. It's just a waste of money as they shouldn't play anyway (see Tait last season). Just register some of the staff's kids or sowt to meet the criteria. It's a box ticking exercise so tick the box and no more.

[The Mercer Takeover]

In the era of analytics, the academy is a just very expensive waste of money.

 

Young guys who show any real promise, are moving on at an early age for absolute peanuts, and we simply don't gain. Hearts are left to try and develop the ones where it is not clear cut if they will make it or not.

 

We now have quite a few former academy players, some of whom are not so young anymore, out on loan now or in our wider squad, and none look anywhere remotely close to establishing themselves in the first team.

 

Let's be honest here, football is a ruthless game and any academy players still at Hearts around 20, 19 even 18 these days have been looked at by bigger clubs, and they have already said NO. For every 20 that remain, one may eventually make a breakthrough or be a late developer and that's it. What the point! 

 

You have to go all in for the analytics or not at all. I believe that investing the academy sums with the analytics, to find some better younger players, is the way forward.

 

Every other team in Scotland would bite your hand off to have access to JTA. Yet we are spending fortunes on an academy and financially gaining nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23 by The Mercer Takeover

[Monsieur Maroon]

We’re going to need that academy when we’re qualifying for Europe every season.  We also wouldn’t have Bloom or Anderson without the academy.  
 

Calls for scrapping the academy because they don’t work with Jamestown or the new model, are well off the mark.

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, Thought Police said:

Might as well take the money now though. Also likely better development and then a decent career in league 1/championship. Harry Stone should have jumped when he had the chance.

I think most guys would take the EPL route regardless of a better chance of first team football. Could be wrong of course but it's obviously not just Hearts losing young talent. England a huge draw.

[Hømme]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What would happen? 

 

You don't need an academy and certainly not one you invest heavily in to satisfy the club trained criteria. It's just a waste of money as they shouldn't play anyway (see Tait last season). Just register some of the staff's kids or sowt to meet the criteria. It's a box ticking exercise so tick the box and no more.

 

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

What percentage of the Current Brighton and USG squads came through their respective academies ?

 

Brighton is 3 (Dunk, March, Hinshelwood) out of 26 = 12%

 

USG is 1 (Makate) out of 26 = 4%

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Remember speaking to a young laddies dad, his son was on loan at Livingston from Liverpool. Liverpool gave him a 5 year contract on over 5k a week and just continually loaned him out in the hope he would be a hit somewhere. He knew he was never going to play for Liverpool. But the money was great security and life changing for a youngster

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Hømme said:

 

 

Insightful. What's the benefit to spending millions to have substandard player sat on the bench when you could do it at almost no cost?

[gregzy2k7]

I wonder at what point the governing bodies i.e the f.a and sfa can stop this sort of thing from happening? I personally would like to see our governing body or maybe Fifa introduce some sort of rule that clubs not from your country can't take your academy players or are limited to only taking 1 per club or something along those lines per season?

 

Im not privy to this so not really sure what the solution is but does anyone know how we can potentially stop this sort of thing happening ?

 

Seems to be having a big impact in the development of our players and actually damaging our clubs and the national team as a result of it, surely there has to be something that can be done?

[JimmyCant]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Brighton is 3 (Dunk, March, Hinshelwood) out of 26 = 12%

 

USG is 1 (Makate) out of 26 = 4%

USG is actually 2, but they’ve played 2 first team games between them. They’re simply not using their academy as progression to first team or to generate revenue. They’re using JTA to the exclusion of the academy, just like we’ll be doing

[Doc Rob]

Another good prospect who will

disappear into the youth system of a big English club, and then either never be heard from again, or be spat out age 22 and have a career at Crewe or Walsall. It’s depressing.

[EIEIO]

24 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think most guys would take the EPL route regardless of a better chance of first team football. Could be wrong of course but it's obviously not just Hearts losing young talent. England a huge draw.

Ben Doak is the most well known example. He left Celtic for Liverpool if I recall, now the great hope for Scotland up front. This is the exception though.

[EH11 2NL]

As much as a lot of them get lost in the English system as some are putting it, the counter argument isn't very strong. For every Hickey there's many many players that come through, get a few first team appearances and drop off into the lower Scottish leagues. Don't blame the boy for moving, and tbh if it was my son I'd probably be advocating he goes to the elite club. 

[Captain Sausage]

1 hour ago, Hømme said:

All the "why bother?" folk should try watching the club enter the SPFL / Europe without an academy and see what happens.

Absolutely nothing would happen. It would mean registering some B team guy which is exactly what we’d be doing here. 
 

Wilson and Gordon the only 2 club trained players worth including, and both are reserves. 
 

Not the ‘gotcha’ you think it is. 

[JimmyCant]

31 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

Another good prospect who will

disappear into the youth system of a big English club, and then either never be heard from again, or be spat out age 22 and have a career at Crewe or Walsall. It’s depressing.

I still think if you’re good enough, you’ll make it. But it’s one hell of a lot of hurdles to get there and only the most dedicated make it at the higher levels

 

You have to wonder how many talented footballers jacked it in completely in their late teens because they just couldn’t see a path. Even more sad is the number who drop out in early teen years because boys club coaching is such an ego trip for the coaches themselves and they’ll play the big strong laddies ahead of the talented ones

 

I know of one laddie who was a tremendous wee player at 12-14 and was being scouted by Aberdeen and Celtic. The scouts begged the boys club coach to give him more game time so they could get a proper look but he refused and played two big lumps in the middle of the park who were never going to make it at pro level. The laddie packed it in eventually as it was happening all through the early age groups at boys club level. That’s not a one off hard luck story. That’s happening all over the country to hundreds of boys and then there is the next cull with so few clubs prepared to give youth players a chance because failure is so costly and they’d rather gamble with foreign journeymen than young Scottish boys

 

A foreigner quota of some kind would fix all this, but the elite clubs wouldn’t stand for it and the employment equality and human rights lawyers might have something to say about it 

Edited September 23 by JimmyCant

[Hømme]

3 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Absolutely nothing would happen. It would mean registering some B team guy which is exactly what we’d be doing here. 
 

Wilson and Gordon the only 2 club trained players worth including, and both are reserves. 
 

Not the ‘gotcha’ you think it is. 

 

We are potentially getting rid of the B team.

 

'gotcha'

[Famous 1874]

Very frustrating, are the SFA not in progress with trying to stop this type of thing? They need to get a move on.

[tartofmidlothian]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

For me, JTA has completely cut off any route that might have existed for a young player to establish himself in Hearts first team. Look at Wilson for an example of what I mean. On the verge of being an automatic choice not so long ago he’s been usurped by 3 or 4 players we’ve signed and he’s gone backwards significantly in the pecking order, so much so that I believe he’ll let his contract run out and go somewhere else for nothing.(development fees apart) 

 

There is no benefit whatever to the club in developing young players when the priority at the club is the JTA  model as we’re using it. We don’t gain financially and we don’t grow our own first team players.

 

It might be temporary of course but the structure of Scottish football below first team level isn’t helping either. The leap from age group football to first team football is huge and the loan system isn’t working either. See Kirk and Tait as examples of that. Both had very good loan spells but came back still nowhere near the first team

 

Ive advocated scrapping the academy for a good few years now. It’s a complete and utter waste of money, especially now with what we’re doing with JTA

 

I wonder what age group JTA begins collecting data on players, and whether it can help us build a group of unknown but outstanding youths? It might find us a first teamer every so often, but we could become like a small Scottish Man City. Even if we raked in 250-500k every summer from selling three or four players the same way Stephen Husband, Adam King or David Gray went before they'd even seen our first team, with an occasional Hickey in there, that would be worth it.

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Dougie Masterton said:

Why is a 15 yo allowed to play for Arsenal first team, but in Scotland you can’t? 

You would have to ask Neil Doncaster that one. The minimum age of 16 is replicated in the Lowland League and EOSFL too. Oddly the SPFL changed the age restriction to 15 for this season's Challenge Cup. You can assume that the change request came from the clubs.

[MMHearts]

The rules for uefa competitions are clear.

 

The Homegrown Player Rule is a rule for UEFA competitions that was first introduced in 2006–07 season and fully enforced beginning in the 2008–09 season. On top of a maximum 25 players for List A, clubs had to designate a minimum 8 players that were trained by clubs from the same national league, with 4 of them being from the club's own youth system.^[1] The rule in turn capped a maximum of 17 foreign trained players for the club in UEFA competitions.

Edited September 23 by MMHearts

[Footballfirst]

Hearts need to get away from their one size fits all for first year contracts. If they have an exceptional talent then it needs to be an exceptional deal. 30 hours a week on minimum wage (for a 16 year old) isn't a great proposition, when EPL clubs can offer so much more in terms of add ons.

[JamboGlen]

4 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

It’s very annoying. Of course we want to see these lads come go on to great things but not before a single first team appearance.  Financially we’d be better throwing £2m per annum at Jamestown signings.  There should be a limit on players a club can sign to stop teams like city hoovering up everyone. 

Agree when you see what JTA will have given us in it's first year v what we've had out the academy over a long period we would be as well to ditch it.

[Morgan]

4 hours ago, Craig_ said:

 

No, that was a different player. 

Yes, that one was Keir.

 

 

Keep that under your hat, Craig. 👍

[Hesh]

1 hour ago, gregzy2k7 said:

I wonder at what point the governing bodies i.e the f.a and sfa can stop this sort of thing from happening? I personally would like to see our governing body or maybe Fifa introduce some sort of rule that clubs not from your country can't take your academy players or are limited to only taking 1 per club or something along those lines per season?

 

Yes lets restrict someone's employment opportunities

Edited September 23 by Hesh

[AndyNic]

14 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hearts need to get away from their one size fits all for first year contracts. If they have an exceptional talent then it needs to be an exceptional deal. 30 hours a week on minimum wage (for a 16 year old) isn't a great proposition, when EPL clubs can offer so much more in terms of add ons.

 

Is that the deal they are offered? Wow.

 

[Harryspocket]

Advanced talks with Man City. Some Move 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Doc Rob said:

Another good prospect who will

disappear into the youth system of a big English club, and then either never be heard from again, or be spat out age 22 and have a career at Crewe or Walsall. It’s depressing.

Meh. If they are good enough they'll overcome it. Either way, they don't want to be at HMFC so I won't be losing sleeb over it.

[If carlsberg did rivals...]

1 hour ago, EIEIO said:

Ben Doak is the most well known example. He left Celtic for Liverpool if I recall, now the great hope for Scotland up front. This is the exception though.

Was Billy Gilmour another one who left Scotland at a young age for a big club academy and has done very well in the game.

[robertlaird]

8 hours ago, brownkg said:

Another Brexit bonus whereby English clubs are unable to target European youngsters and are more focused on the domestic markets thus hoovering up young talent before it can get established in Scottish football.
Hope it works out for the lad and he goes on to have a good career.. Sadly HMFC will not really benefit from it.

This has hee haw to do with Brexit. 

[Der Kaiser]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

For me, JTA has completely cut off any route that might have existed for a young player to establish himself in Hearts first team. Look at Wilson for an example of what I mean. On the verge of being an automatic choice not so long ago he’s been usurped by 3 or 4 players we’ve signed and he’s gone backwards significantly in the pecking order, so much so that I believe he’ll let his contract run out and go somewhere else for nothing.(development fees apart) 

 

There is no benefit whatever to the club in developing young players when the priority at the club is the JTA  model as we’re using it. We don’t gain financially and we don’t grow our own first team players.

 

It might be temporary of course but the structure of Scottish football below first team level isn’t helping either. The leap from age group football to first team football is huge and the loan system isn’t working either. See Kirk and Tait as examples of that. Both had very good loan spells but came back still nowhere near the first team

 

Ive advocated scrapping the academy for a good few years now. It’s a complete and utter waste of money, especially now with what we’re doing with JTA

 

It will be hard to be critical though if JTA delivers us silverware and european fitba regularly. 

[Boab Mugabe]

At the moment it’s hard to see how any academy youngsters will make their way into the first team squad, never mind having a prospect of getting a game.

 

That’s compounded by any kid showing promise is likely to be snapped up by sides like Man City before you can even get them into the first team.

[Portable Badger]

FFS. Annoyance, frustration and tinged with anger.

 

Another reason to dislike the EPL stockpilers. 

 

 

[Gorgiewave]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

For me, JTA has completely cut off any route that might have existed for a young player to establish himself in Hearts first team. Look at Wilson for an example of what I mean. On the verge of being an automatic choice not so long ago he’s been usurped by 3 or 4 players we’ve signed and he’s gone backwards significantly in the pecking order, so much so that I believe he’ll let his contract run out and go somewhere else for nothing.(development fees apart) 

 

There is no benefit whatever to the club in developing young players when the priority at the club is the JTA  model as we’re using it. We don’t gain financially and we don’t grow our own first team players.

 

It might be temporary of course but the structure of Scottish football below first team level isn’t helping either. The leap from age group football to first team football is huge and the loan system isn’t working either. See Kirk and Tait as examples of that. Both had very good loan spells but came back still nowhere near the first team

 

Ive advocated scrapping the academy for a good few years now. It’s a complete and utter waste of money, especially now with what we’re doing with JTA

Apparently Liverpool use their academy as a money-making exercise, knowing that very few of their youth players will end up in the first team. They have more than they can possibly play and sell most.

 

Could we do something on a smaller scale? Not regard it as a failure if a player is sold to Raith Rovers or Partick Thistle but rather the point.

[Heartsofgold]

1 hour ago, EIEIO said:

Ben Doak is the most well known example. He left Celtic for Liverpool if I recall, now the great hope for Scotland up front. This is the exception though.

I'd say the best example is actually Billy Gilmour, who left the rangers to go to the Chelsea academy.  He's done OK for himself.