Spellczech Posted August 13 Posted August 13 The new Tommy Harrison? No foreign wunderkinder from JTA? Young players need to realise that experience and a path to the first team is far far more important than a few quid... Look at ManU who pay silly money to kids and they get distracted and lose all motivation...
Rudi5kaceldream1ng Posted August 13 Posted August 13 He's decided to play rugby now. Shame. Dont bring his name up ever again again for a few years. Maybe he'll change his mind😉
Prehen Posted August 13 Posted August 13 18 hours ago, Footballfirst said: I can see this thread turning into a "will he / won't he" discussion, much the same as when James Wilson was being tracked by multiple clubs. If (it's a big if) he stays it will be a major coup for the club. However, I think it will be require a departure from the norm in terms of a package that will be attractive enough for him, given the offers that are likely to be on the table for him. In recent years the club has stuck by it's one size fits all offer for first professional contracts (it isn't great financially). I think James Wilson was given some guarantees about doing pre season with the first team and assurances of being fast tracked through the B Team, subject to performing at the required level, which was enough to encourage him to stay. Every now and then you will come across a talent that is away ahead of his peer group. You need to have the flexibility to deviate from the standard offering and offer a deal which values that talent, in the knowledge that you are likely to recoup that investment several times over two to five years down the road. It's a gamble but, with good coaching, the risk of losing out should be minimised. It doesn't take much for a fledgling career in football to be stopped in its tracks. John Dodds (a year older than Keir) signed for Everton this summer. He got injured playing for their U18s and is now out for the season having done an ACL. I propose @Footballfirst to be employed by Hearts in an official academy position. Agree with every point made.
Pingu Posted August 14 Posted August 14 13 hours ago, Debut 4 said: Good name to use as slang for being pissed.
boag1874 Posted August 14 Posted August 14 (edited) 16 hours ago, DxB Hearts said: Its not just with us - look at the likes of Miller and Ferguson who have gotten big moves to Serie A and who wouldn’t have been near an EPL first team if we’re honest. Got to think we (and other SPL sides) are hammering it home that first team football here at 18/19/20 can get you a move to really good sides in big leagues and sitting in an EPL2 or u23s down south can really hinder development. I’m obviously biased but if I had a laddie at that level and age I’d be suggesting they stayed at Hearts. 100% this. I understand some of them will think "**** it, I'll bet on myself here" & try to go down the same route as Gilmour etc but the evidence is there - do well in Scotland & you've got a real chance of getting a good move. Even the likes of Andy Irving - if he'd have went to West Ham (just as an example) early on as a 15/16 year old then I doubt he'd be a first team player now, he'd have ended up down the leagues or back up here. Instead he came through & Hearts, became a first team regular, took an unorthodox route but eventually got a move to Austria likely mostly off the back of his reputation in Scotland & then really kicked on as a player over there allowing him to get a move to an EPL first team at 23/24yo when he was ready for it. Edited August 14 by boag1874
Babertonhearts Posted August 14 Posted August 14 23 hours ago, Prehen said: I propose @Footballfirst to be employed by Hearts in an official academy position. Agree with every point made. That ain't going to happen, may have a chance if was female and pals with Graeme Jones mind.
jamboinglasgow Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Seagulls swoop for Jambos starlet Brighton are amongst a flood of top English Premier League clubs that are keeping close tabs on talented Hearts youngster Keir McMeekin. The Scotland under-16 international is seen as one of the top prospects coming through the Jambos Academy. Brighton already have a tie up with Hearts thanks to their owner, Tony Bloom and his recent investment into the Gorgie club. They have already invited McMeekin down for a visit. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Wolves and Manchester United have also been scouting McMeekin closely both domestically and internationally. The youngster can not sign professional forms in Scotland until next year. Hearts are aware of McMeekin potential and he has already had a taste of training with Derek McInnes’s first-team. The Jambos were in a similar position when James Wilson was coming through. The current Scotland international was wanted by top clubs on both sides of the border but remained at Tynecastle and is one of their major top team assets. Attacking Hearts full-back Peter Kellock is another in the same young Hearts team who is attracting strong English interest. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-35747375
spacerjoe Posted August 18 Posted August 18 43 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: Seagulls swoop for Jambos starlet Brighton are amongst a flood of top English Premier League clubs that are keeping close tabs on talented Hearts youngster Keir McMeekin. The Scotland under-16 international is seen as one of the top prospects coming through the Jambos Academy. Brighton already have a tie up with Hearts thanks to their owner, Tony Bloom and his recent investment into the Gorgie club. They have already invited McMeekin down for a visit. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Wolves and Manchester United have also been scouting McMeekin closely both domestically and internationally. The youngster can not sign professional forms in Scotland until next year. Hearts are aware of McMeekin potential and he has already had a taste of training with Derek McInnes’s first-team. The Jambos were in a similar position when James Wilson was coming through. The current Scotland international was wanted by top clubs on both sides of the border but remained at Tynecastle and is one of their major top team assets. Attacking Hearts full-back Peter Kellock is another in the same young Hearts team who is attracting strong English interest. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-35747375 ITS STARTED!!! THE ****IKG PYRAMID HAS STARTED!!!!!
kingantti1874 Posted August 18 Posted August 18 46 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: Seagulls swoop for Jambos starlet Brighton are amongst a flood of top English Premier League clubs that are keeping close tabs on talented Hearts youngster Keir McMeekin. The Scotland under-16 international is seen as one of the top prospects coming through the Jambos Academy. Brighton already have a tie up with Hearts thanks to their owner, Tony Bloom and his recent investment into the Gorgie club. They have already invited McMeekin down for a visit. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Wolves and Manchester United have also been scouting McMeekin closely both domestically and internationally. The youngster can not sign professional forms in Scotland until next year. Hearts are aware of McMeekin potential and he has already had a taste of training with Derek McInnes’s first-team. The Jambos were in a similar position when James Wilson was coming through. The current Scotland international was wanted by top clubs on both sides of the border but remained at Tynecastle and is one of their major top team assets. Attacking Hearts full-back Peter Kellock is another in the same young Hearts team who is attracting strong English interest. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-35747375 FFS
El Prez Posted August 18 Posted August 18 49 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: Seagulls swoop for Jambos starlet Brighton are amongst a flood of top English Premier League clubs that are keeping close tabs on talented Hearts youngster Keir McMeekin. The Scotland under-16 international is seen as one of the top prospects coming through the Jambos Academy. Brighton already have a tie up with Hearts thanks to their owner, Tony Bloom and his recent investment into the Gorgie club. They have already invited McMeekin down for a visit. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Wolves and Manchester United have also been scouting McMeekin closely both domestically and internationally. The youngster can not sign professional forms in Scotland until next year. Hearts are aware of McMeekin potential and he has already had a taste of training with Derek McInnes’s first-team. The Jambos were in a similar position when James Wilson was coming through. The current Scotland international was wanted by top clubs on both sides of the border but remained at Tynecastle and is one of their major top team assets. Attacking Hearts full-back Peter Kellock is another in the same young Hearts team who is attracting strong English interest. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-35747375 Give us a goalkeeper for swapsies.
davemclaren Posted August 18 Posted August 18 16 minutes ago, spacerjoe said: ITS STARTED!!! THE ****IKG PYRAMID HAS STARTED!!!!! 🤣
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said: Seagulls swoop for Jambos starlet Brighton are amongst a flood of top English Premier League clubs that are keeping close tabs on talented Hearts youngster Keir McMeekin. The Scotland under-16 international is seen as one of the top prospects coming through the Jambos Academy. Brighton already have a tie up with Hearts thanks to their owner, Tony Bloom and his recent investment into the Gorgie club. They have already invited McMeekin down for a visit. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Wolves and Manchester United have also been scouting McMeekin closely both domestically and internationally. The youngster can not sign professional forms in Scotland until next year. Hearts are aware of McMeekin potential and he has already had a taste of training with Derek McInnes’s first-team. The Jambos were in a similar position when James Wilson was coming through. The current Scotland international was wanted by top clubs on both sides of the border but remained at Tynecastle and is one of their major top team assets. Attacking Hearts full-back Peter Kellock is another in the same young Hearts team who is attracting strong English interest. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-35747375 What kind of fee might we be looking at for a deal such as this?
EIEIO Posted August 18 Posted August 18 "Attacking full back Peter Kellock" ! Is he right sided by any chance.
El Prez Posted August 18 Posted August 18 4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: What kind of fee might we be looking at for a deal such as this? Think peanuts. Then, ½ those peanuts.
Portable Badger Posted August 18 Posted August 18 FFS. Potentially two hot prospects could be snaffled by the big guys. I hope they, and parents, have their heads screwed on and aren’t dazzled by the club name & earlier riches. We need to get young Wilson in their ear to sell the benefits of signing on with Hearts and getting real game time.
BigStein Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Does this mean Tony Bloom does read Kickback? In all seriousness this is such a deflating aspect of the academy system. The best players who could break into the first team and help us win trophies before moving on for big money instead end up leaving very young for a pittance and play reserve football until they’re 23
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted August 18 Posted August 18 He’s like the anti Joe Hendry. Say his name and he disappears
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted August 18 Posted August 18 At least if he goes to Brighton its controlled and he is likely to be given back for a spell. Anywhere else its a pittance and never to be seen again.
Portable Badger Posted August 18 Posted August 18 8 minutes ago, BigStein said: Does this mean Tony Bloom does read Kickback? In all seriousness this is such a deflating aspect of the academy system. The best players who could break into the first team and help us win trophies before moving on for big money instead end up leaving very young for a pittance and play reserve football until they’re 23 I watched the Plymouth v QPR Carabou Cup game last week hoping to see how young Rocco Friel was getting on. QPR were basically playing their U23 side but Rocco remained firmly on the bench for the whole game. To think if he’d still been here he’d possibly/probably be getting real game time in the First Team.
Batistuta87 Posted August 18 Posted August 18 (edited) 4 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said: Seagulls swoop for Jambos starlet Brighton are amongst a flood of top English Premier League clubs that are keeping close tabs on talented Hearts youngster Keir McMeekin. The Scotland under-16 international is seen as one of the top prospects coming through the Jambos Academy. Brighton already have a tie up with Hearts thanks to their owner, Tony Bloom and his recent investment into the Gorgie club. They have already invited McMeekin down for a visit. Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Wolves and Manchester United have also been scouting McMeekin closely both domestically and internationally. The youngster can not sign professional forms in Scotland until next year. Hearts are aware of McMeekin potential and he has already had a taste of training with Derek McInnes’s first-team. The Jambos were in a similar position when James Wilson was coming through. The current Scotland international was wanted by top clubs on both sides of the border but remained at Tynecastle and is one of their major top team assets. Attacking Hearts full-back Peter Kellock is another in the same young Hearts team who is attracting strong English interest. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-35747375 I'd guess that just about every decent club in the country will be keeping tabs. I know for a fact that at least another six have been. Edited August 18 by Batistuta87
Batistuta87 Posted August 18 Posted August 18 3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said: What kind of fee might we be looking at for a deal such as this? Would be lucky to get £200,000.
RustyRightPeg Posted August 18 Posted August 18 3 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said: Would be lucky to get £200,000. Unless Tony sees it as an unofficial way to plug more money into us.
Captain Sausage Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Does make you question the logic of investment in an academy. If we have access to a world class recruitment system, and any top prospects are snapped up by big English clubs for a pittance, would it not make more sense to funnel the (presumably) significant budget allocated to the academy into first team recruitment instead?
Babertonhearts Posted August 18 Posted August 18 34 minutes ago, Portable Badger said: I watched the Plymouth v QPR Carabou Cup game last week hoping to see how young Rocco Friel was getting on. QPR were basically playing their U23 side but Rocco remained firmly on the bench for the whole game. To think if he’d still been here he’d possibly/probably be getting real game time in the First Team. No chance for me, his dad was a pain, club probably glad to get shot.
Smithian Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Hearts kept James Wilson. Hearts are doing something right if Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool are paying attention. Stiff upper lip, no panic. Best Hearts can do is to continue growing our infrastructure and our wage scale to make staying at Hearts more compelling. And if McMeekin goes, it'll be painful, but you just have to spin it as Hearts can show talent in Edinburgh the best clubs in the world will find them at Tynecastle, they don't need to move to Glasgow or a "bigger" English side. But if he goes I'll probably need a few days before I can convince myself of that point.
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 6 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said: Does make you question the logic of investment in an academy. If we have access to a world class recruitment system, and any top prospects are snapped up by big English clubs for a pittance, would it not make more sense to funnel the (presumably) significant budget allocated to the academy into first team recruitment instead? It's a (fair) question that comes up every time one of our better young players looks like getting picked up by an English club. It's not like the kid is the next Lionel Messi, he's just a standout player that a rich club can pick up for pennies to bolster their youth teams. There is a limit on how many non-UK players under 21 can be signed each season so they need UK based. The problem is that a non English player should be counted as forign, not non UK.
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 minute ago, Smithian said: Hearts kept James Wilson. Hearts are doing something right if Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool are paying attention. Stiff upper lip, no panic. Best Hearts can do is to continue growing our infrastructure and our wage scale to make staying at Hearts more compelling. And if McMeekin goes, it'll be painful, but you just have to spin it as Hearts can show talent in Edinburgh the best clubs in the world will find them at Tynecastle, they don't need to move to Glasgow or a "bigger" English side. But if he goes I'll probably need a few days before I can convince myself of that point. But there has to be something in it for us. No point in recruiting a decent young player, investing time and effort in his development, and then losing him for peanuts. Clearly there is no need to showcase anyone because every club is well aware of every promising player within a 1000-mile radius.
RustyRightPeg Posted August 18 Posted August 18 7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: But there has to be something in it for us. No point in recruiting a decent young player, investing time and effort in his development, and then losing him for peanuts. Clearly there is no need to showcase anyone because every club is well aware of every promising player within a 1000-mile radius. The irony as we pay relatively cheap transfer fees for players who are deemed to be gems by JTA.
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said: The irony as we pay relatively cheap transfer fees for players who are deemed to be gems by JTA. True, although the ones we are looking at tend to have 1st team experience.
Footballfirst Posted August 18 Posted August 18 4 hours ago, spacerjoe said: ITS STARTED!!! THE ****IKG PYRAMID HAS STARTED!!!!! I can assure you that Brighton's interest in Keir pre-dates Bloom's interest in Hearts.
RustyRightPeg Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Just now, Nookie Bear said: True, although the ones we are looking at tend to have 1st team experience. I fully understand the frustration by the way. Wilson was also linked with Brighton prior to Bloom coming here so I won’t be taking this news as gospel that he could be going there. I’d like to at least think TB would take head of the alliance and not take the piss.
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: I can assure you that Brighton's interest in Keir pre-dates Bloom's interest in Hearts. Think he was kidding but also scary that clubs like brighton are tracking players as young as 14, as he would have been then.
Smithian Posted August 18 Posted August 18 4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: But there has to be something in it for us. No point in recruiting a decent young player, investing time and effort in his development, and then losing him for peanuts. What's in it for Hearts is you get talent like Wilson, Tait, Forrester, Denholm who come through and either earn spots at Tynecastle or move on to contribute elsewhere. I don't know how we can change the reality of a kid can't sign a contract until certain age and if one of the biggest clubs on the planet Earth is keen on him, there isn't much Hearts can do but show them a roadmap to being a contributor at Hearts and someday going to a bigger club as a prized recruit and not as a "take a flyer on him" youth player. Also, I can't get too bothered by this because I assume if Hearts noticed a talented teenager at Falkirk, Livi, Raith, etc we'd have no problem swooping in and whatever those clubs get out of it I am certain their supporters would feel wronged. There is a pyramid in this world and unless Hearts win the Champions League (never rule it out!) then we're going to sometimes have bigger clubs nab our talent, same as we sometimes nab smaller clubs.
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 2 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said: I fully understand the frustration by the way. Wilson was also linked with Brighton prior to Bloom coming here so I won’t be taking this news as gospel that he could be going there. I’d like to at least think TB would take head of the alliance and not take the piss. My frustration is with the rules that mean English clubs are able to do this. Don't blame the player or Hearts at all. Would be nice for TB to spend £1mill on keir but i suspect the Brighton board will have a swift word with him on that
Smithian Posted August 18 Posted August 18 3 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said: I fully understand the frustration by the way. Wilson was also linked with Brighton prior to Bloom coming here so I won’t be taking this news as gospel that he could be going there. I’d like to at least think TB would take head of the alliance and not take the piss. Bloom made it pretty clear Bright, USG, Hearts are their own clubs. I think you'll see a friendship between the clubs, but ultimately they'll do what's best for themselves. Hearts probably will miss some of the benefits from Brighton and USG that Hibs may get from Bournemouth, but on the other side we retain our autonomy and our management wakes up every day wondering how to do best for Hearts, not wondering if they'll have a squad move forced on them for the betterment of the top of the pyramid.
Footballfirst Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said: Think he was kidding but also scary that clubs like brighton are tracking players as young as 14, as he would have been then. Brighton has been tracking him at least from U14 if not U13, so Keir would have been 13 at most. After just half an hour of watching Keir for the first time, the Brighton scout spoke to one of the Hearts academy staff and half jokingly said "How much do you want for him?, I'll write the cheque today". He was told "Join the queue". True story - I was there.
Portable Badger Posted August 18 Posted August 18 47 minutes ago, Babertonhearts said: No chance for me, his dad was a pain, club probably glad to get shot. That’s more reassuring then. We don’t need pre Madonna arseholes. Shame we didn’t get more for him though 👍
Nookie Bear Posted August 18 Posted August 18 2 hours ago, Footballfirst said: Brighton has been tracking him at least from U14 if not U13, so Keir would have been 13 at most. After just half an hour of watching Keir for the first time, the Brighton scout spoke to one of the Hearts academy staff and half jokingly said "How much do you want for him?, I'll write the cheque today". He was told "Join the queue". True story - I was there. 😮
OTT Posted August 18 Posted August 18 3 hours ago, Footballfirst said: Brighton has been tracking him at least from U14 if not U13, so Keir would have been 13 at most. After just half an hour of watching Keir for the first time, the Brighton scout spoke to one of the Hearts academy staff and half jokingly said "How much do you want for him?, I'll write the cheque today". He was told "Join the queue". True story - I was there. Sounds like it will be a miracle to keep him then
Ray Gin Posted August 18 Posted August 18 3 hours ago, Portable Badger said: That’s more reassuring then. We don’t need pre Madonna arseholes. Shame we didn’t get more for him though 👍 Arseholes definitely became more palatable after Madonna released her debut album in 1983.
Footballfirst Posted August 18 Posted August 18 6 minutes ago, OTT said: Sounds like it will be a miracle to keep him then My gut feel is that he will go, but I know that he has spoken to James Wilson at Balerno and their respective parents talk to one another, particularly with Keir having played with the Wilson twins for much of last season. Keir and his parents won't be short of advice.
OTT Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 minute ago, Footballfirst said: My gut feel is that he will go, but I know that he has spoken to James Wilson at Balerno and their respective parents talk to one another, particularly with Keir having played with the Wilson twins for much of last season. Keir and his parents won't be short of advice. Strangely thats encouraging. Maybe if the parents are speaking, he will end up with the same agent, who may well take a similar view to that of Wilson (i.e far better to stay put, develop & get actual first team football). Motherwell were able to hold onto Lennon Miller, and I'm assuming that may have been a similar situation, where Celtic/Rangers and a lot of English clubs had scouted him and saw the potential he had. So hopefully that means there is some hope. It feels like a lot of the team, English teams have that much money, that academy's turn into some sort of vanity project, to get all the best youngsters, without much plan of actually getting them into the first team. I don't suppose the laddie is a Jambo like Wilson?
Portable Badger Posted August 18 Posted August 18 20 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Arseholes definitely became more palatable after Madonna released her debut album in 1983. 👏😂
Diego10 Posted August 18 Posted August 18 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: My gut feel is that he will go, but I know that he has spoken to James Wilson at Balerno and their respective parents talk to one another, particularly with Keir having played with the Wilson twins for much of last season. Keir and his parents won't be short of advice. You've got to hope the moves players like Hickey/ Lennon Miller have got off the back of being involved in first team football rather than say a Marc Leonard approach is something players/ parents take into account. Edited August 18 by Diego10
Watt-Zeefuik Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Footballfirst said: My gut feel is that he will go, but I know that he has spoken to James Wilson at Balerno and their respective parents talk to one another, particularly with Keir having played with the Wilson twins for much of last season. Keir and his parents won't be short of advice. I felt like some of the reason we kept Wilson is that he was able to live at home in a familiar environment while finishing school. I obviously know nothing about his parents and how settled they are in Edinburgh but if they're comfortable here and so is he, I think it gives us a chance. (I defer to your knowledge, of course.)
spacerjoe Posted August 19 Posted August 19 15 hours ago, Captain Sausage said: Does make you question the logic of investment in an academy. If we have access to a world class recruitment system, and any top prospects are snapped up by big English clubs for a pittance, would it not make more sense to funnel the (presumably) significant budget allocated to the academy into first team recruitment instead? There was a time when Arsenal were taking Barcelona's best players. Happens at every level. You're gonna have a top 1% to 2% that are just too good for us, same as a large bottom cohort who will never be good enough. The better we get, the more chance we have of convincing the best ones to stay. The paradox though is that supporters complain about the best one's leaving, but then rarely want to take the risk of playing them in the first team in case they can't play immediately better than an experienced player.
We_are_the_Hearts Posted August 19 Posted August 19 15 hours ago, Captain Sausage said: Does make you question the logic of investment in an academy. If we have access to a world class recruitment system, and any top prospects are snapped up by big English clubs for a pittance, would it not make more sense to funnel the (presumably) significant budget allocated to the academy into first team recruitment instead? Yip I've always wondered if we would be better spending the money in signing the bigger teams cast offs, especially while the current situation is allowing English teams and even Rangers recently to take ours that we have spent a lot of time developing. I know we take other teams off them but the first team aint benefitting from this
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