Edinburgh City Bypass

[DB-14]

An absolute shitshow every single day and not fit for purpose.

[OBE]

11 minutes ago, DB-14 said:

An absolute shitshow every single day and not fit for purpose.

 

Never has been. Consultations ongoing for several years, costing 7m and climbing...***kin' abortion of a road system. I hour delays in both directions today...Scotland is allegedly a great wee country, no it isnae!

Edited Tuesday at 17:07 by OBE

[Shanks said no]

West side of the city was gridlocked in places this afternoon, no apparent reason apart from the roadworks at Puregym on Gorgie Road.  Much worse than when there is a midweek game on trying to get back in from Corstorphine.

Edited Tuesday at 17:16 by Shanks said no
spelling

[The Real Maroonblood]

Any word when the flyover a Sheriffhall Roundabout will start?

[periodictabledancer]

 Completely inadequate from the outset, far too many junctions culminating in the absolute shit show at the eastern end. It should have bern designed  to motorway standards but never was and then they added huge and unnecessary traffic volumes its not designed for by adding retail outlets. 

[Bender]

I'd say it's more of a Sheriffhall problem. A rotten roundabout with too many sets of traffic lights that doesn't let the traffic flow as well as it should.

[OBE]

16 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Any word when the flyover a Sheriffhall Roundabout will start?

 

That would just shove the traffic down to Oldcraighall quicker, same problem different roundabout. The entire Edinburgh bypass system needs upgraded.

[theshed]

It was tailed back from the hill end turn off right back to sheriffhall yesterday at 4pm as I was heading back from airport and heading east wasn’t too bad 

 

Thank god I’m no on that road much. People who have to travel on this road each day for work deserve a medal 

[Generic Username]

An absolute midden for me whenever I'm driving into work from Musselburgh. Easily an hour minimum each way which is mental for what's about 16 miles. 

 

Bits of it are always horrific as well. Sheriffhall, Straiton, that slip road to the M8 just before you continue on to the Gyle. Reckon I get about 10 minutes of driving out of second gear. 

 

Has stripped years off me. 

[Canscot]

Not really about the bypass per se but the traffic there is one of the main reasons I have just about decided( not completely yet) that I am done with the UK period. No where to park. Charges for everything except breathing ffs. 
You get dropped off at Edinburgh airport and your ride giver gets charged £4-6 just for dropping you and unloading your bags? F$&k off!

My sister lives on Lanark Road. When I rent a car sometimes it is impossible to find a parking spot on the street. My nephew lives up the road about 400yds away and down a hill by The Water Of Leith and I have to park at his place. Madness.

Sorry. Just needed to vent😆

[Lord Montpelier]

The majority of the road network in Scotland is barely fit for purpose and the bypass is a complete embarrassment to Edinburgh

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Any word when the flyover a Sheriffhall Roundabout will start?

The original plan on building the Bypass had an overpass or underpass. This was cut out for financial reasons.

The council were warned at the time.

As for the now planned flyover - hmmm, even if they do start it would take many years.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, lost in space said:

The original plan on building the Bypass had an overpass or underpass. This was cut out for financial reasons.

The council were warned at the time.

As for the now planned flyover - hmmm, even if they do start it would take many years.

Sadly the same old story. 

[Canscot]

The problem with city bypasses is they work well sometimes. By that I mean. One accident during rush hour and traffic comes to a standstill. We have one here in Calgary (a ring road) that was just finished not too long ago at a huge cost of $4.5Bn. Regularly at a standstill in winter when a pile up happens. Even during rush hours it slows right down to a crawl. I guess what I am saying is you are not alone when it comes to traffic issues🤷‍♂️

[Der Kaiser]

It genuinely influenced my job searching when I first got started teaching l and was looking for permanent contracts jobs.

Any job that would have involved me having to travel that every day got a wide berth.

[maroondevo52]

Folk that slow down to a crawl to look at an accident on the opposite carriageway was a major problem tonight.

 

[FWJ]

The old (?) urban legend was that a flyover / grade-separated junction couldn’t be built at Sheriffhall or would be prohibitively expensive because the old mine works in the area meant the piers couldn’t be supported.  Dunno if that’s true or not.

It needs to 3 lanes in each direction - maybe four on the east-bound climb up to Dreghorn.

The main problem, IMHO, is that it’s not a ‘by-pass’ - it’s a retail park (and increasingly new housing estate) distributor road.  
 

Next time you’re stuck on it, try not to remind yourself that the SG has found £4 Billion to build - what is effectively - a motorway to Inverness….

[escobri]

The government sadly neglects what the average citizen requires, the lack of building or upgrading of roads is simply scandalous, the bypass needs major upgrading and has done for years, sherrifhall,the A9 dualing, just get it done ffs. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, escobri said:

The government sadly neglects what the average citizen requires, the lack of building or upgrading of roads is simply scandalous, the bypass needs major upgrading and has done for years, sherrifhall,the A9 dualing, just get it done ffs. 

They're always short sighted on these issues. 

[fabienleclerq]

Was it suggested at the time of building two lanes wouldn't be enough? 

 

I never understand how they plan these things and not future proof them. Even if they built two lanes initially they should keep enough room to expand it.

[FWJ]

31 minutes ago, escobri said:

The government sadly neglects what the average citizen requires, the lack of building or upgrading of roads is simply scandalous, the bypass needs major upgrading and has done for years, sherrifhall,the A9 dualing, just get it done ffs. 

The A9 has been completely rebuilt from Dunblane to Dornoch in my adult lifetime - at a cost of £2billion in today’s money.

The £4 Billion to dual it to Inverness could be much better spent elsewhere.

[the posh bit]

Edinburgh and the outlying areas has a fantastic public transport system. There’s no need for all these cars on the road.

Edited Tuesday at 21:46 by the posh bit

[Lone Striker]

I got an unwelcome reminder  2 weeks ago of just how frustrating the Bypass can be.  Joined it at Gogar ,,,, all fine for 100m....  then static.... move about 3m every few minutes.  The M8  junction and  Calder junction  spill huge numbers of vehicles on to the Bypass  heading east which  causes vehicles already on the Bypass  to crawl.   Took about 40 mins just to reach the Baberton  on-slip.  Amazingly, none of the on-slips further east caused any problem at all.  

 

 

[escobri]

37 minutes ago, FWJ said:

The A9 has been completely rebuilt from Dunblane to Dornoch in my adult lifetime - at a cost of £2billion in today’s money.

The £4 Billion to dual it to Inverness could be much better spent elsewhere.

How many deaths have occurred because of the lack of investment in dualing the A9?

[Byyy The Light]

3 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

I got an unwelcome reminder  2 weeks ago of just how frustrating the Bypass can be.  Joined it at Gogar ,,,, all fine for 100m....  then static.... move about 3m every few minutes.  The M8  junction and  Calder junction  spill huge numbers of vehicles on to the Bypass  heading east which  causes vehicles already on the Bypass  to crawl.   Took about 40 mins just to reach the Baberton  on-slip.  Amazingly, none of the on-slips further east caused any problem at all.  

 

 

It’s an absolute shit show. Same happens at Straiton and Hillend going the other direction. It’s not big enough to cope with the traffic coming on and everything grinds to a halt.

 

Doesn’t help people in inside lane pulling out to overtaking lane to let people on. Just let them merge.

[FWJ]

31 minutes ago, escobri said:

How many deaths have occurred because of the lack of investment in dualing the A9?

How many deaths have occurred / or will occur on other roads being starved of investment because of the billions being lavished on this one road?

It is rated by EuroRAP (the European Road Assessment Programme) in its second-safest category - there are many more dangerous roads in Scotland, notably the A82.

The Inverness Courier had a headline a while ago noting that there were twice as many serious accidents on that road than on the A9.

 

[Footballfirst]

9 minutes ago, FWJ said:

How many deaths have occurred / or will occur on other roads being starved of investment because of the billions being lavished on this one road?

It is rated by EuroRAP (the European Road Assessment Programme) in its second-safest category - there are many more dangerous roads in Scotland, notably the A82.

The Inverness Courier had a headline a while ago noting that there were twice as many serious accidents on that road than on the A9.

 

As of July 2023, 335 people had been killed on the Perth-to-Inverness stretch of the road since 1979 (an average of 7.6 deaths per year), 59 of which occurred between 2011 and 2022 (an average of 5.4 deaths per year).

 

 

Collisions on the A9 by whether on dual or non dual carriageways.
	Non Dual carriageway	Dual carriageway (2)	Total
2020	42	22	64
2021	47	34	81
2022	56	27	83
2023 (1)	54	31	85
Total	199	114	313
Fatal collisions on the A9 by whether on dual or non dual carriageways.
	Non Dual carriageway	Dual carriageway (2)	Total
2020	2	1	3
2021	2	1	3
2022	9	3	12
2023 (1)	2	2	4
Total	15	7	22

[FWJ]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

As of July 2023, 335 people had been killed on the Perth-to-Inverness stretch of the road since 1979 (an average of 7.6 deaths per year), 59 of which occurred between 2011 and 2022 (an average of 5.4 deaths per year).

 

 

Collisions on the A9 by whether on dual or non dual carriageways.
	Non Dual carriageway	Dual carriageway (2)	Total
2020	42	22	64
2021	47	34	81
2022	56	27	83
2023 (1)	54	31	85
Total	199	114	313
Fatal collisions on the A9 by whether on dual or non dual carriageways.
	Non Dual carriageway	Dual carriageway (2)	Total
2020	2	1	3
2021	2	1	3
2022	9	3	12
2023 (1)	2	2	4
Total	15	7	22

Bearing in mind that currently only about a quarter is dualled, then it would seem from these figures that the dualled sections are more dangerous?

 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

Bearing in mind that currently only about a quarter is dualled, then it would seem from these figures that the dualled sections are more dangerous?

 

Read into it what you want. I simply gave the numbers.

 

From a personal viewpoint stretching back over the last 40-50 years, I've always been aware of fatalities on the A9 year after year. I therefore believed that dualling was the right thing to do and still do. The same goes for the A1 down to Newcastle on both sides of the border.

[FWJ]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Read into it what you want. I simply gave the numbers.

 

From a personal viewpoint stretching back over the last 40-50 years, I've always been aware of fatalities on the A9 year after year. I therefore believed that dualling was the right thing to do and still do. The same goes for the A1 down to Newcastle on both sides of the border.

I’ve driven up and down the A9 from Inverness to Perth at least once a week for over 35 years.

The average speed cameras have made a big difference, people just trundle along at 60mph.

It takes 2 hours from the Raigmore Interchange to Inveralmond.  Maybe 5 minutes less, occasionally 5 minutes more, but I genuinely can’t remember (other than in snow etc) when it’s taken me longer than that.  
 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/these-are-the-10-scottish-roads-with-the-highest-number-of-fatal-accidents-2918979

 

Note that although the A9 is 100 miles longer than the A82 it still has fewer fatal or serious accidents .

Edited Tuesday at 23:25 by FWJ

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, escobri said:

How many deaths have occurred because of the lack of investment in dualing the A9?

If it's that important, why didn't the Labour administration in Scottish government do something about it then ?

Why is it an issue now - but not then ?

As if we didn't know. 

[Lord Montpelier]

7 hours ago, the posh bit said:

Edinburgh and the outlying areas has a fantastic public transport system. There’s no need for all these cars on the road.

The real test of your first statement is whether people are using it. Which you then disprove in your second statement. 

 

Adequate, barely. Fantastic, definitely not.

[superjack]

6 hours ago, FWJ said:

I’ve driven up and down the A9 from Inverness to Perth at least once a week for over 35 years.

The average speed cameras have made a big difference, people just trundle along at 60mph.

It takes 2 hours from the Raigmore Interchange to Inveralmond.  Maybe 5 minutes less, occasionally 5 minutes more, but I genuinely can’t remember (other than in snow etc) when it’s taken me longer than that.  
 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/these-are-the-10-scottish-roads-with-the-highest-number-of-fatal-accidents-2918979

 

Note that although the A9 is 100 miles longer than the A82 it still has fewer fatal or serious accidents .

I've always thought that allowing the lorries to go 10mph faster made the biggest difference on the A9. Since that was done (at the same time as the average speed cameras), I've seen a lot less instances of people taking stupid chances overtaking lorries due to frustration.

[OBE]

8 hours ago, the posh bit said:

Edinburgh and the outlying areas has a fantastic public transport system. There’s no need for all these cars on the road.

 

You'll find a high percentage of the vehicles (commercial) on the A702 are using it to further their journey far beyond Edinburgh.

[Seymour M Hersh]

There is no chance the SNP are going to allocate the necessary funds to upgrade the road properly. I hadn't realised the initial building of it started in 79 and it was finally "completed" in Dec 89. Built in 5 sections so it should be no surprise it's a dogs dinner. 

[stirlo]

The reality is that in the last 30 years there has been a chronic lack of investment in the roads network. It is positive to see that there is finally an actual schedule in place for dualling the A9 and work on the latest section recently started with a contract due to be awarded for another section soon. But dualling the A1, A96 and A75 should also be on the government's agenda. On the A1 there were quite advanced plans in place to dual a 13-mile section on the English side of the border but these were scraped almost as soon as the the Starmer government took power.

 

As for Sheriffhall, building the overpass would make a big difference to the bypass, because my impression is that a very large proportion of the traffic at that roundabout is traffic that is staying on the bypass.    

[hughesie27]

I've been going up and down the bypass for work for nearly 10 years now. Previously I could leave the house at 7.30 and get to work for 4 to 5 minutes before 8. In the last year ive noticed that stretch out to 2 to 3 minutes after 8 regularly. 

I've also managed to master the perfect lane switching technique travelling Westbound to save myself a good 5 mins when its rammed. 

And a wee trick at Old Craighall roundabout when travelling Eastbound.

 

The sort of fun games you need to keep your brain ticking over whilst travelling at 15 miles per hour for 6 miles.

[PaddysBar]

Yesterday was bad. Took me over 4 hours to get back from Aberdeen. 
 

It was fine until I got to the m8 / Hermiston Gate and then saw the dreaded ‘accident city bypass east after HG’ sign. 
 

I did a detour so not sure if the details but the bypass is not fit for purpose. 
 

As there’s no hard shoulder in some places, one solitary car breaking down causes everything to grind to a halt. 
 

As mentioned above, houses are getting built all along the green belt so it’s only going to get worse. 
 

There’s no real way of avoiding HG if you need to go east. 

[OBE]

1 hour ago, stirlo said:

The reality is that in the last 30 years there has been a chronic lack of investment in the roads network. It is positive to see that there is finally an actual schedule in place for dualling the A9 and work on the latest section recently started with a contract due to be awarded for another section soon. But dualling the A1, A96 and A75 should also be on the government's agenda. On the A1 there were quite advanced plans in place to dual a 13-mile section on the English side of the border but these were scraped almost as soon as the the Starmer government took power.

 

As for Sheriffhall, building the overpass would make a big difference to the bypass, because my impression is that a very large proportion of the traffic at that roundabout is traffic that is staying on the bypass.    

 

Certainly would. An overpass/underpass would just move the congestion from Sheriffhall to Old Craighall. It's the West bound on-ramps from SH that **** that part of the system up. As mentioned before the A702 ain't a bypass it's a link road to retail and housing.

 

[SUTOL]

2 hours ago, superjack said:

I've always thought that allowing the lorries to go 10mph faster made the biggest difference on the A9. Since that was done (at the same time as the average speed cameras), I've seen a lot less instances of people taking stupid chances overtaking lorries due to frustration.

 

 

One of the biggest problems on the A9 is people driving too close behind each other and not leaving space for someone overtaking to pull into. Lorries/HGV's especially bad for this, but the queue of cars behind trundling along at 45mph all make it worse. 

Also applies to other busy trunk roads like the A82, A84, A87 etc.

 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

Better driving skills and awareness when using the bypass would help.  As has been pointed out, there are a lot of junctions in a relatively short section of dual carriageway.  That means people are joining the road at regular intervals. If those people fail to match the speed of the traffic already on the bypass at busy times then there is always a knock on impact.

 

Let's say traffic is heavy but moving smoothly at 50mph, it only takes one cautious driver seeking to join the road at 30mph to cause drivers behind them to brake and you get a domino effect far beyond the junction, so the flow of traffic drops accordingly.  That's how you end up with almost stationary traffic at Straiton and Lothianburn daily.

[Montgomery Brewster]

The bypass was fit for purpose - original purpose only - which was to remove the traffic that went through Edinburgh city centre. 
 

the problem now is that as has been highlighted above is its mixed use - new housing and retail parks which were never around when it was first envisaged, clashing with traffic that just wants to go past Edinburgh. 
 

in time this will just become an internal feeder road and a new bypass will need built which bypasses both Edinburgh city centre and this distributor bypass for local traffic. 
 

oh and if anyone thinks the West side of the bypass is bad already just wait til the 7000 housing units at Glasgow Road get built for West Town and the several thousand behind the Bank at Gogarburn appear. Chuck in the new maybury to newbridge bus lanes and The Council are sleep walking into a nightmare in about 4 or 5 years. 

[escobri]

10 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

If it's that important, why didn't the Labour administration in Scottish government do something about it then ?

Why is it an issue now - but not then ?

As if we didn't know. 

I don't care of politics here, the A9 and A1 need dualing now. Any government actually interested in building a prosperous country would do this task, pronto.

[cheetah]

So glad I gave up driving years ago. 

[stirlo]

1 hour ago, escobri said:

I don't care of politics here, the A9 and A1 need dualing now. Any government actually interested in building a prosperous country would do this task, pronto.

 

Absolutely right. The truth is that successive governments of all parties both north and south of the border have just procrastinated when it comes to building roads over the last 30 years. It's great news that finally there seems to be a genuine plan of action on the A9 and work actually ongoing on the latest section. Whether they stick to the timetable of completing the dualling by 2035 remains to be seen.

 

As for the A1, I'm afraid that to my knowledge there doesn't seem to be any plans on the agenda to dual the remaining sections down to the border - and as per my previous post, the dualling of a 13-mile stretch south of the border was scrapped by Starmer's government last year. Visitors to the UK who travel around by car must be shocked that a significant section of the 'A1' - ostensibly one of the most important roads in the UK - is still not fully dualled all the way from Edinburgh to Newcastle.

Edited Wednesday at 11:01 by stirlo

[luckyBatistuta]

14 hours ago, FWJ said:

The old (?) urban legend was that a flyover / grade-separated junction couldn’t be built at Sheriffhall or would be prohibitively expensive because the old mine works in the area meant the piers couldn’t be supported.  Dunno if that’s true or not.

It needs to 3 lanes in each direction - maybe four on the east-bound climb up to Dreghorn.

The main problem, IMHO, is that it’s not a ‘by-pass’ - it’s a retail park (and increasingly new housing estate) distributor road.  
 

Next time you’re stuck on it, try not to remind yourself that the SG has found £4 Billion to build - what is effectively - a motorway to Inverness….

That’s never happening, they’ve built numerous housing developments right up to it. 
 

1 hour ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

The bypass was fit for purpose - original purpose only - which was to remove the traffic that went through Edinburgh city centre. 
 

the problem now is that as has been highlighted above is its mixed use - new housing and retail parks which were never around when it was first envisaged, clashing with traffic that just wants to go past Edinburgh. 
 

in time this will just become an internal feeder road and a new bypass will need built which bypasses both Edinburgh city centre and this distributor bypass for local traffic. 
 

oh and if anyone thinks the West side of the bypass is bad already just wait til the 7000 housing units at Glasgow Road get built for West Town and the several thousand behind the Bank at Gogarburn appear. Chuck in the new maybury to newbridge bus lanes and The Council are sleep walking into a nightmare in about 4 or 5 years. 

Yes, it was fit for purpose when it was built, but how did the clowns that all approve and sign it off not realise that there would be more traffic going forward. The only way I can see to solve it, is to built another deck on top. They could possibly make the top deck for vehicles travelling only the whole stretch of bypass, with on and off ramps only for emergency vehicles or possibly buses too. It will never happen though. They don’t have any money, they’re skint, blown it all on their tram and the pointless cycle lanes across the city.

[highlandjambo3]

8 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

The real test of your first statement is whether people are using it. Which you then disprove in your second statement. 

 

Adequate, barely. Fantastic, definitely not.

I’ve never really got the “park and drive” scenario🤷‍♂️……take your car to a fairly large parking area then get a bus/public transport f*c* that…I bought a car for a reason.

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

Building more roads or lanes does not solve traffic issues. It just kicks the can further down the line. A proper integrated public transport system should be put in place to encourage people out of cars. That is where the money should be spent.  

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

2 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

That’s never happening, they’ve built numerous housing developments right up to it. 
 

Yes, it was fit for purpose when it was built, but how did the clowns that all approve and sign it off not realise that there would be more traffic going forward. The only way I can see to solve it, is to built another deck on top. They could possibly make the top deck for vehicles travelling only the whole stretch of bypass, with on and off ramps only for emergency vehicles or possibly buses too. It will never happen though. They don’t have any money, they’re skint, blown it all on their tram and the pointless cycle lanes across the city.

Why are the cycle lanes 'useless' in your opinion?

They are designed to encourage more people to cycle. You should be grateful more people should want to in order to free up the roads.

Building more roads just encourages more cars, it does not solve traffic problems. 

[luckyBatistuta]

11 minutes ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said:

Why are the cycle lanes 'useless' in your opinion?

They are designed to encourage more people to cycle. You should be grateful more people should want to in order to free up the roads.

Building more roads just encourages more cars, it does not solve traffic problems. 

I probably spend way more hours moving around Edinburgh streets than the large percentage of residents in this city. They’re a horrendous waste of money, you hardly see anyone using them. The main folks who do use them (uber,deliveroo) are going at the same speeds as the cars on the road…in the middle of a pavement though, utter madness.