Immigration

[il Duce McTarkin]

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Its taken time for people to latch on to this , they are doing now, and Reform support grows as they realise the left (and it has to be said Conservatives as well) dont have their backs , and id go as far as saying many feel abandoned in favour of others.

 

Reform don't have their backs either, though, only a message designed specifically to work on the base instincts of a specific demographic. It's dangerous, but effective almost everywhere that it's been deployed. As a society, we need to be better than that, otherwise what's the point? The centre and centre left really need to up their game, but they're swimming against a global undercurrent.

 

[New Town Loafer]

A genuinely centre-left (economically-speaking) party which doesn’t pander to the ‘diversity is our strength’ nonsense, doesn’t castigate people for being white, and stands up for British traditions, institution and history would do very well. 

[King prawn]

32 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

A genuinely centre-left (economically-speaking) party which doesn’t pander to the ‘diversity is our strength’ nonsense, doesn’t castigate people for being white, and stands up for British traditions, institution and history would do very well. 

I.e. something like the Liberal Democrats who manage to get a nosebleed any time they’re close to power and mess it up. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Pretty much every thread on any mildly political topic is oozing with what you describe from a collection of posters you could name before opening the thread.

 

They'll claim an enlightened atheism, but in their sneering moral certainty, all they've done is swap one form of pompous piety for another.

 

They drown any decent points that they make (and there are plenty) in a sea of sanctimony.

Bravo !!! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, New Town Loafer said:

It’s hilarious how they’re oblivious to it. Swinging from their morality tree while looking down at all the plebs. 

Correct . They Just refuse to see it 

[il Duce McTarkin]

The 'diversity is our strength' stuff isn't nonsense, it's lip-service to poorly managed or barely existing integration policies (or lack of).

The Aussies chucked a fortune into sport to give their disparate ethnicities and communities something positive to rally around. It worked fairly well to an extent (although they're not without their problems).

Where are the analogues here?

The issue isn't diversity, or an unwillingness to integrate, it's economic stagnation and ghettoization.

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

A genuinely centre-left (economically-speaking) party which doesn’t pander to the ‘diversity is our strength’ nonsense, doesn’t castigate people for being white, and stands up for British traditions, institution and history would do very well. 

Yep 

[Nookie Bear]

40 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

A genuinely centre-left (economically-speaking) party which doesn’t pander to the ‘diversity is our strength’ nonsense, doesn’t castigate people for being white, and stands up for British traditions, institution and history would do very well. 

Would dominate the North of England for sure. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 hour ago, New Town Loafer said:

A genuinely centre-left (economically-speaking) party which doesn’t pander to the ‘diversity is our strength’ nonsense, doesn’t castigate people for being white, and stands up for British traditions, institution and history would do very well. 

Yep, you'd think the Labour party would see that and act accordingly.

A genuinely slightly right of centre, a small "c" conservative party would, along side a party of your description, would leave the reform party out in the cold, it's centrist politics we need.

[Dawnrazor]

2 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Culture wars work both ways, right?

Your post reeks of racist, transphobic, islamaphobic, anti Palestine, pro "Zionism", anti vegan sentiment and I'm offended and triggered, how very dare you😭😭😭😭😭

[Martin B]

3 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I think you just proved Dawnrazors point

 

Well done.

If I was making the point you think I was then I’d agree with you. But I was referring to Reform’s durability and substance, not their political stance.

 

The Lib Dems made all sorts of promises in order to gain some power. They then broke those promises when in power and the voters turned on them.

 

As @il Duce McTarkin says above, Reform know exactly the right things to say and promise and it’s proved to be effective messaging in order to garner votes. Their actual policies and substance will be shown up should they achieve any power and they will go the way of the Lib Dems imo.

 

 

[Gundermann]

11 hours ago, Ked said:

Btw no wonder white schemies and small town white working class boak at the so called left these days

 

That's a fair point though many small towns are shitholes. They're shitholes though because of the economic carnage of the 80s and the failures of various govts to regenerate them or provide significant employment to replace the old industries that were swept away with no regard for the workers. Yeah, large sections of the left have forgotten about these areas. However, there are some working class voices who do state this, Darren McGarvey and Mick Lynch come to mind. They don't seem quite as attractive to the media though as 'honest working class men' like... Farage or wealthy immigrants/ foreigners like Musk.

 

I'd still say that while it's fine to say the left have forgotten the 'schemies' that then voting for people who'll dismantle the NHS, cut your benefits, give you shit like the bedroom tax and rape clause is pretty damn stupid.

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

18 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

That's a fair point though many small towns are shitholes. They're shitholes though because of the economic carnage of the 80s and the failures of various govts to regenerate them or provide significant employment to replace the old industries that were swept away with no regard for the workers. Yeah, large sections of the left have forgotten about these areas. However, there are some working class voices who do state this, Darren McGarvey and Mick Lynch come to mind. They don't seem quite as attractive to the media though as 'honest working class men' like... Farage or wealthy immigrants/ foreigners like Musk.

 

I'd still say that while it's fine to say the left have forgotten the 'schemies' that then voting for people who'll dismantle the NHS, cut your benefits, give you shit like the bedroom tax and rape clause is pretty damn stupid.

 

 

 

Good post.

[The Mighty Thor]

Immigration down. 

 

What now?

 

The right wing bots start attacking the 'woke lefties' 😂

 

Brilliant. 

 

Dismantle the moon howling shite of these goons often enough and they'll attack themselves. 

 

 

[Jacques de Gauthier]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Immigration down. 

 

What now?

 

The right wing bots start attacking the 'woke lefties' 😂

 

Brilliant. 

 

Dismantle the moon howling shite of these goons often enough and they'll attack themselves. 

 

 

FFS

 

Can we organise a JKB whip round so this lad can get a shag? Might sort his posts out.

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, Jacques de Gatineau said:

FFS

 

Can we organise a JKB whip round so this lad can get a shag? Might sort his posts out.

Very kind offer.

 

Not one Mrs Thor would be impressed with. 

 

It's telling there's little comment from our true British patriot types when the news on immigration is good or when its exactly what they've been calling for.

It's almost like they'd have nothing to greet about and have to go back to culture wars 101

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Jacques de Gatineau said:

FFS

 

Can we organise a JKB whip round so this lad can get a shag? Might sort his posts out.

I think he’s quite unhappy 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

Your post reeks of racist, transphobic, islamaphobic, anti Palestine, pro "Zionism", anti vegan sentiment and I'm offended and triggered, how very dare you😭😭😭😭😭

And a tinge of homophobia 😎😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Jacques de Gatineau said:

FFS

 

Can we organise a JKB whip round so this lad can get a shag? Might sort his posts out.

The immigration “ down “ figures are apparently a bit of jiggery pokery 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think he’s quite unhappy 

😂

 

As ever the king of wrong delivers. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Anyway I’m not on long today as got my LGB group today in Glasgow then we are out on the piss . Dearie me what a day to head your Glasgow ! Be full of green and red ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

😂

 

As ever the king of wrong delivers. 

You seem very unhappy . Never ever read an uplifting or humorous post from you , unless your ridiculing others and trying to be funny 

[JudyJudyJudy]

File this under “ you could not mahe this up “ 

just walked passed a few Celtic fans on the train . One aged old one has a Celtic top on   with “ Bangkok Celtic supporters club” emblazoned on it . He looked at me and said “ come on the hoops “ !! 😜

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

You seem very unhappy . Never ever read an uplifting or humorous post from you , unless your ridiculing others and trying to be funny 

You seem not to understand the irrelevance of your thoughts on my happiness or lack thereof. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

File this under “ you could not mahe this up “ 

just walked passed a few Celtic fans on the train . One aged old one has a Celtic top on   with “ Bangkok Celtic supporters club” emblazoned on it . He looked at me and said “ come on the hoops “ !! 😜

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

 

I gave a wry smile . 😎

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You seem not to understand the irrelevance of your thoughts on my happiness or lack thereof. 

And you seem to not realise you are a football forum , spraffing nonsense just like everyone else . Your not better or worse 

[Thunder and Lightning]

24 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

File this under “ you could not mahe this up “ 

just walked passed a few Celtic fans on the train . One aged old one has a Celtic top on   with “ Bangkok Celtic supporters club” emblazoned on it . He looked at me and said “ come on the hoops “ !! 😜

 

 

Did you? 

[Dawnrazor]

35 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

And a tinge of homophobia 😎😂

That's fashionable now.

ManagementPlan_04-09.pdf

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Did you? 

Well It’s still early doors so you never know whatll happen later on in Glasgow city centre . 😜 

[WorldChampions1902]

7 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

The immigration numbers are a good start, am sure we would all agree with that. As long as they dont get magically revised upwards. 

 

Heres a question. For those coming in on boats - we only count those who get nabbed ? How do we / do we know how many slip through. 

One would expect that immigration numbers are set on a downwards trajectory (albeit there may be some ‘blips’ along the way). Time will tell.

 

On your second paragraph, I looked at the published figs earlier this week and noticed that Channel Crossing migrant figures to the end of April this year sit at 8,000. (Notice that I don’t use the term ‘illegals’). Using that 8,000 figure, it is possible to project a total 24,000 Channel migrants for 2025. And using the accepted ‘norm’ that 25 - 30% of those migrants will ultimately be deemed ‘illegal’ and deported, what we are looking on that category of illegal immigrant, is around 7,000 people.
 

Yes, 7,000 people.

 

For the year.

 

So when certain sections of our society and right-wing media get a collective aneurysm over those “Channel crossing illegals” that are “stealing our jobs, our housing and GP’s appointments”, let’s keep a sense of perspective.

 

As regards your final question, we don’t know what we don’t know. But government analysts are able to guesstimate the ‘undetected’ illegal immigration figures using various known data.

[Cade]

I've lived in big cities.

I've lived in small town backwater shiteholes.

I know what the people are like.

 

Big cities tend towards a more progressive view of politics, either at a local, national or international level.

Small towns tend towards the right wing. I've lived in towns which have voted Tory for as long as anybody can remember, but are run down dilapidated shiteholes. They despise the big cities and by extension the politics of those big cities as they think there is some sort of conspiracy that is either denying them funding or punishing them for voting right wing.

Politics of envy, indeed.

So they keep voting right wing in the hopes that they'll finally get what they're "owed", but they never do. Because the parties they keep voting for at local and nation level don't give a single shite about them, which is why their towns are backwater shiteholes.

It's a negative feedback loop.
They vote for parties that do nothing for them, those parties then blame the big cities and the idiot masses keep voting for them anyways.

 

At least, that's my own personal opinion formed from living in certain towns and cities at certain points in time.....

 

Edited May 24 by Cade

[il Duce McTarkin]

21 minutes ago, Cade said:

I've lived in big cities.

I've lived in small town backwater shiteholes.

I know what the people are like.

 

Big cities tend towards a more progressive view of politics, either at a local, national or international level.

Small towns tend towards the right wing. I've lived in towns which have voted Tory for as long as anybody can remember, but are run down dilapidated shiteholes. They despise the big cities and by extension the politics of those big cities as they think there is some sort of conspiracy that is either denying them funding or punishing them for voting right wing.

Politics of envy, indeed.

So they keep voting right wing in the hopes that they'll finally get what they're "owed", but they never do. Because the parties they keep voting for at local and nation level don't give a single shite about them, which is why their towns are backwater shiteholes.

It's a negative feedback loop.
They vote for parties that do nothing for them, those parties then blame the big cities and the idiot masses keep voting for them anyways.

 

At least, that's my own personal opinion formed from living in certain towns and cities at certain points in time.....

 

 

You don't live anywhere, Cade, you exist.

[JudyJudyJudy]

24 minutes ago, Cade said:

At least, that's my own personal opinion formed

This . 

[Ulysses]

Ah, metaperceptions.  Ya can't beat them. 

 

Meanwhile, real working class voters in real places have a choice between:

 

Political parties who have abandoned them.

 

Political parties who never gave a **** about them and never pretended.

 

Political parties who don't give a **** about them but are pretending.

 

Anyone who says there's any other choice available to working class people is either deluded or at it.

[il Duce McTarkin]

^^^^^ Spot on.

[Thunder and Lightning]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Well It’s still early doors so you never know whatll happen later on in Glasgow city centre . 😜 

Oh matron. 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

Ah, metaperceptions.  Ya can't beat them. 

 

Meanwhile, real working class voters in real places have a choice between:

 

Political parties who have abandoned them.

 

Political parties who never gave a **** about them and never pretended.

 

Political parties who don't give a **** about them but are pretending.

 

Anyone who says there's any other choice available to working class people is either deluded or at it.

Bang on 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

The immigration numbers are a good start, am sure we would all agree with that. As long as they dont get magically revised upwards. 

 

Heres a question. For those coming in on boats - we only count those who get nabbed ? How do we / do we know how many slip through. 

I don't suppose you could possibly know how many people slip through.

 

It could be none at all. 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

You seem very unhappy . Never ever read an uplifting or humorous post from you , unless your ridiculing others and trying to be funny 

I can confirm the number of uplifting or joyous moments I've had via the medium of my mobile phone screen is precisely zero. 

 

Try putting yours down. There's a big world filled with wondrous things beyond your iPhone. 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/unauthorised-migration-in-the-uk/

 

800k ish estimated based on studies that are a few years old and dont account for the ridiculous influx over the last few years. Certainly more than zero

I might be misunderstanding but is there figures that show its been a ridiculous influx of “people who slip past” or are you just guessing? 

[Jacques de Gauthier]

I know for a fact that there's an absolute ton of illegal immigrants who slip past every month.

[Jacques de Gauthier]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Educated judgement based on the data in the report.

 

Are you happy we have 500 - 800k undocumented and unauthorised people in the country ?

That's a lot of barbers.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/unauthorised-migration-in-the-uk/

 

800k ish estimated based on studies that are a few years old and dont account for the ridiculous influx over the last few years. Certainly more than zero

Im reading that as a total number in the UK at that 2017 point rather than 800k slipped into the UK in 2017?

 

Is that right?

 

The lack of a working asylum system does not help the UK in my opinion. It probably drives that number. 

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

12 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

....the more you go to the right the more the number goes up...

 

 

Is that you explaining how graphs work or are you trolling the right-wingers? 

[The Mighty Thor]

23 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Yes. Figure 2 shows studies on this over time, the more you go to the right the more the number goes up, which i guees you would expect . 750k ish in total at that point seems like a reasonable number

 

Id expect that to be higher now just following the trends since 2017

 

Is it a lack of system, or a deliberate effort to circumnavigate the system. Id suggest the latter. If you have a good case for asylum and wanted to do it by the book there is a route. 

 

There's not at the moment. There's no safe and legal route, hence the folks rolling the dice in a B&Q dinghy in the busiest shipping lane in the world 

[Ulysses]

Just now, Lord Montpelier said:

Ha ha very good. Me troll ? Never. 

 

 

 

(soz for the nerdy maths joke) 

[sadj]

58 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Educated judgement based on the data in the report.

 

Are you happy we have 500 - 800k undocumented and unauthorised people in the country ?

Are these 500-800k including ones who have come legally or just illegally to try and be in the country? 

[sadj]

58 minutes ago, Jacques de Gatineau said:

That's a lot of barbers.

🤣🤣 you mean money launderers surely  

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

🤣🤣 you mean money launderers surely  

Engineers, Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses, Care Workers.......no?