Vargas - joins Herediano on loan (updated)

January 19

4 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I’m no oracle, we’re all seeing the same football. What I saw with Vargas was a mixed performance, yes he missed his chance by snatching at it but at the same time we don’t score the 3rd unless he makes the run and cross he does - a run and cross most of our team can’t or don’t do.

The reason I asked about the others is they generally had poor performances and points to critique. And we’re 11th - most team members have been poor and criticism of them would be justifiable. Vargas has not been any worse than most, so why does he get it in the neck more than most? It’s because of what he said to a journalist in Costa Rica. That’s it. And it’s not because he said it, it’s because how fans chose to react to what he said.

Now any performance he has is viewed by some through a different lens than they view other players. Whether folk realise that or not I don’t know, but given the comparable performances of teammates that don’t get it as bad as he does, that’s the only logical reasoning.

Personally I believe that if Vargas made those comments whilst playing well in a winning team the reaction would have been much less severe. I also believe that if he has a run of good games for us then fans will be back on side.

I don’t really know why he’s been singled out for a thread but I think every player in our squad has a selection of Hearts fans who just don’t rate them which given where we are in the table is somewhat understandable. I guess Penrice would be the obvious exception

January 19

9 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

Personally I believe that if Vargas made those comments whilst playing well in a winning team the reaction would have been much less severe. I also believe that if he has a run of good games for us then fans will be back on side.

I don’t really know why he’s been singled out for a thread but I think every player in our squad has a selection of Hearts fans who just don’t rate them which given where we are in the table is somewhat understandable. I guess Penrice would be the obvious exception

People hate people who are arrogant and cocksure. That’s all it is. I mean would he have been treated differently if he was Scottish? I’m sure. Would the fans be pissed off if he said he one day wants to play for Rangers or Celtic (which most of our team probably do but won’t say it out loud) absolutely they would. But I think in this instance it’s a “who the hell does he think he is?” mentality.

I have no problem with a player showing ambition. I think his ambition is completely out of sync with his current ability though. But I chose to laugh it off as him being at best naive and at worst a stupid footballer (which is not exactly a new thing). Why others got angry I’ll never know. And people can pretend they weren’t/aren’t but they were/still are.

And now fans don’t like him as a person for what he said, and therefore they judge his performances / ability through that lens. No different than when fans say things like “he just gets it” or “he’s one of our own” - those players get their performances judged through a different lens too, just a positive one rather than negative. It’s human nature, but that doesn’t mean it always aligns with reality of the situation.

January 19

Vargas got loads of criticism from some prior to his comments. Those comments just swelled those against him. I was a big fan and defender of him prior but I went off him a fair bit with the comments too.

He's served some time on the bench and I'm glad he's back in the fold. He changed our game at Aberdeen, nobody ran at them prior to that.

January 19

No agenda with Vargas , couldn't care less about his comments ( i don't believe many care either) but I watch him and , as with Dhanda and Grant, I'm constantly asking " why was he signed, what is he good at"?

I just don't get the love in for this guy - or the crazy contract award.

I'll be amazed he lasts another season unless he shows some major improvement.

January 19

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

He’s more than fine for us and could be excellent if coached correctly. Anyone who wants rid and claims he’s crap is just being overly sensitive about his comments. (Comments most players think but generally don’t say it out loud)

When it comes to media savvy he’s an idiot, but he has the attributes to succeed at our level. No idea why people want to pretend otherwise.

Agreed.

He’s already shown previously what he’s capable of. Just because he’s not been in great form recently doesn’t make him shit, and neither does a naive comment to a journalist.

Sadly no matter what he does from now on or how well he plays he’s done for in the minds of many. Any positives will be ignored and every single error or chance he misses he’ll be crucified for.

January 19

33 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

How many more games does he get? Hes been here for ove a season and a half already.
Agree about the abuse but its not abuse to say I dont think he will get any better any time soon. Hearts need better forwards than Vargas.
No abuse there.

where i am

January 19

33 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

Personally I believe that if Vargas made those comments whilst playing well in a winning team the reaction would have been much less severe. I also believe that if he has a run of good games for us then fans will be back on side.

I don’t really know why he’s been singled out for a thread but I think every player in our squad has a selection of Hearts fans who just don’t rate them which given where we are in the table is somewhat understandable. I guess Penrice would be the obvious exception

Without a doubt.

January 19

4 minutes ago, Chimp said:

Agreed.

He’s already shown previously what he’s capable of. Just because he’s not been in great form recently doesn’t make him shit, and neither does a naive comment to a journalist.

Sadly no matter what he does from now on or how well he plays he’s done for in the minds of many. Any positives will be ignored and every single error or chance he misses he’ll be crucified for.

Agreed

January 19

Can't beat a man, no ball control, easily dispossessed, can't stay on his feet, any tackle he makes is a free kick and looks chuffed with himself when he misses really good goal scoring opportunities. We can do a lot better.

January 19

He’ll be a decent player for someone like Falkirk

cannae wait till we loan him out

January 19

16 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Agreed

is he and evryone - not results based ? Hearts are carrying him - as to the op - 6/7 games non starter - is he done - maybe nc thinks so

January 19

18 minutes ago, OBE said:

Can't beat a man, no ball control, easily dispossessed, can't stay on his feet, any tackle he makes is a free kick and looks chuffed with himself when he misses really good goal scoring opportunities. We can do a lot better.

Pure luck what he did in the lead up to our 3rd or how he won the penalty against Aberdeen? See, when you only focus on negatives and don’t counter with positives you end up with a completely lopsided view of a player. It’s a problem if you’re looking for negatives than positives or vice versa, your “opinion” becomes biased and not in line with reality.

January 19

24 minutes ago, OBE said:

Can't beat a man, no ball control, easily dispossessed, can't stay on his feet, any tackle he makes is a free kick and looks chuffed with himself when he misses really good goal scoring opportunities. We can do a lot better.

Alternatively -

Often beats his man , often wins the ball back for us , and scored nine goals last season

January 19

2 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Pure luck what he did in the lead up to our 3rd or how he won the penalty against Aberdeen? See, when you only focus on negatives and don’t counter with positives you end up with a completely lopsided view of a player. It’s a problem if you’re looking for negatives than positives or vice versa, your “opinion” becomes biased and not in line with reality.

Negatives far outweigh the positives. Imo, we are where we are today with dross like Vargas.

January 19

1 minute ago, OBE said:

Negatives far outweigh the positives. Imo, we are where we are today with dross like Vargas.

An opinion you’re entitled to. Point is if all you focus on are negatives a view can be skewed. And I personally think at our level his negatives are to be expected given his positives. If his positives weren’t counteracted by the negatives then he’d be playing a level above us given his attributes. But he’s playing for us because of that imbalance. But as I say, an opinion you’re entitled to even if I don’t agree with it.

January 19

49 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

People hate people who are arrogant and cocksure. That’s all it is. I mean would he have been treated differently if he was Scottish? I’m sure. Would the fans be pissed off if he said he one day wants to play for Rangers or Celtic (which most of our team probably do but won’t say it out loud) absolutely they would. But I think in this instance it’s a “who the hell does he think he is?” mentality.

I have no problem with a player showing ambition. I think his ambition is completely out of sync with his current ability though. But I chose to laugh it off as him being at best naive and at worst a stupid footballer (which is not exactly a new thing). Why others got angry I’ll never know. And people can pretend they weren’t/aren’t but they were/still are.

And now fans don’t like him as a person for what he said, and therefore they judge his performances / ability through that lens. No different than when fans say things like “he just gets it” or “he’s one of our own” - those players get their performances judged through a different lens too, just a positive one rather than negative. It’s human nature, but that doesn’t mean it always aligns with reality of the situation.

I really don’t think it’s the Scottish thing as players like McKay and Forrest are much maligned and I could see people turning on Forrester pretty quickly during the game on Friday for one bad performance.

I just think collectively as a support we’ve become very comfortable in throwing negativity and abuse about. We used to throw it at the opposition players but it’s all targeted at our own now.

Crichtley is building a new squad now with JA and it’s up to every player in the squad to take their opportunities and show that they’re worth keeping. If next season starts well for us then the support will be right behind all involved

January 19

Sometimes you just don't like someone's face.

January 19

11 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

An opinion you’re entitled to. Point is if all you focus on are negatives a view can be skewed. And I personally think at our level his negatives are to be expected given his positives. If his positives weren’t counteracted by the negatives then he’d be playing a level above us given his attributes. But he’s playing for us because of that imbalance. But as I say, an opinion you’re entitled to even if I don’t agree with it.

What are his positives, in your opinion? Genuinely interested to hear.

January 19

15 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

An opinion you’re entitled to. Point is if all you focus on are negatives a view can be skewed. And I personally think at our level his negatives are to be expected given his positives. If his positives weren’t counteracted by the negatives then he’d be playing a level above us given his attributes. But he’s playing for us because of that imbalance. But as I say, an opinion you’re entitled to even if I don’t agree with it.

I often wonder how Juanjo , Quitongo and Valois would be treated by fans today

January 19

56 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

No agenda with Vargas , couldn't care less about his comments ( i don't believe many care either) but I watch him and , as with Dhanda and Grant, I'm constantly asking " why was he signed, what is he good at"?

I just don't get the love in for this guy - or the crazy contract award.

I'll be amazed he lasts another season unless he shows some major improvement.

Lovely bit of close control and dinked cross to set up the third goal on Friday? 🤷‍♂️

January 19

3 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

I really don’t think it’s the Scottish thing as players like McKay and Forrest are much maligned and I could see people turning on Forrester pretty quickly during the game on Friday for one bad performance.

I just think collectively as a support we’ve become very comfortable in throwing negativity and abuse about. We used to throw it at the opposition players but it’s all targeted at our own now.

Crichtley is building a new squad now with JA and it’s up to every player in the squad to take their opportunities and show that they’re worth keeping. If next season starts well for us then the support will be right behind all involved

The internet really doesn’t help. I still don’t understand why people feel they can message a famous person just because they’re famous. Footballer and any celebrity really. If they ask a question or make a stupid or good point I can sort of see it, but just because you can I don’t see why anyone should. But people these days feel like they have instant access to anyone on the internet and there’s no boundaries.

I genuinely don’t understand the mentality of anyone that goes on the internet to abuse footballers because they played a bad game of football. Either directly via DM or on their social media / tagging them or indirectly by putting into a forum / space where they could see it. That also seeps its way into the stands as people are now comfortable with shouting abuse. There’s almost an entitlement to it.

I’m old and recall pre-internet times, so it will never make sense to me. Funny thing is people aren’t saying anything different than when I was younger. Difference is we said to our friends in the pubs, school, work, at fives, Sunday league etc. it was contained to social circles. We wouldn’t dream of saying these things to a player it we saw them at an airport, in a restaurant, shopping at the supermarket as that would be mental. But some seem content to do it to players in all those places as long as it’s via a phone. It’s weird.

Before you’d have an odd football phone in to hear extreme fan held views and even then they’d be laughed off by the majority. Same views are now posted on Facebook or Twitter and the village idiots find idiots from every village to agree with them. (Not that I’m equating those criticising Vargas to village idiots, talking generally about the impact of the internet here)

January 19

9 minutes ago, viva hate said:

Sometimes you just don't like someone's face.

Is that where you are personally , or is it your opinion on why so many Hearts supporters display such a negative opinion of him . Genuine question

January 19

3 minutes ago, ...andFulton'sBaggio said:

Lovely bit of close control and dinked cross to set up the third goal on Friday? 🤷‍♂️

Found his level then, Highland League...

January 19

9 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

What are his positives, in your opinion? Genuinely interested to hear.

Pace, ability to get past a man, gets fouled a lot meaning more free kicks and penalties, can smash a shot, has a bit of trickery about him, works defences to the point they don’t know whether to track him or leave him meaning we’re less predictable to defend against, chases channels like no one else in the team can / does, has the ability to score goals others can’t (think of the plucking the ball out of the air with his right and turn and score with his left on the half volley last season).

He has plenty of weaknesses that can make him frustrating to watch I grant you, because for his positive points there’s a moan and groan point every game. But I go back to when he signed permanently, most were happy with it. Can’t have had too many negatives at that time if that’s the case.

January 19

1 minute ago, OBE said:

Found his level then, Highland League...

Ha ha 🤣

Kabangu found his level too, then?

January 19

Vargas and shankland were brilliant last season and played off each other’s confidence. Oh how easy to ignore that and just say ‘they’re shite’.

January 19

3 minutes ago, Star Lizard said:

Is that where you are personally , or is it your opinion of why so many Hearts supporters display such a negative opinion of him . Genuine question

A bit of both really. Most of the time I'd like to think my opinion of players is rational and based on their performance. In reality, many of the gripes I have with players is because I just don't like something about them. This makes their bad performances harder to forgive.

January 19

He's made an impact off the bench the last few weeks and on Friday he ran his absolute bollocks off on a shite pitch, set up a goal and maybe got one himself, it's hard to tell.

No idea why he's getting abuse for how he played on Friday. Folk just make their minds up about players and stick to it no matter what they see. If it's not quite coming off for him all you can ask for is hard work, which he does. That should be a pre requisite for players but often it's not. He's not downed tools, and he's proven before he can be an effective player. Maybe some actual support would help.

January 19

11 minutes ago, viva hate said:

In reality, many of the gripes I have with players is because I just don't like something about them. This makes their bad performances harder to forgive.

Thanks . I wish more supporters were as honest as that . You speak for a lot of people who would never admit the same thing

There are quite a few on this forum and not just towards Vargas either

Personally I just want what is best for Hearts

January 19

When his permanent signing was announced last March:

First three pages all positives. “The next Rudi”. “He’ll make us millions”. “From his Twitter activity, seems like he gets us”

One bad game/decision in the Hampden semi against Rangers and there was criticism around page 4 before it going back to being positive again after his league performances and goals.

The player described in the thread we’re currently in and other recent ones is not the same player described in the one linked above. But they are, that’s the thing. The one people were talking about March last year didn’t suddenly become a dud. Which means he’s not, and people are choosing to focus on the negative and pretending he was ever lauded. It’s weird behaviour.

January 19

Think he will be good foil for Taylor when fit.

Could be our Penrice Spittal combo down the right?

January 19

2 hours ago, Mister T said:

He'd do well as the back legs of a pantomime horse

😧🤣

January 19

3 hours ago, Boris5115 said:

Only football player I've ever known to run like a pony.

we comment on it every game ,that we skip he does too before he actually starts running ,brutal

January 19

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

When his permanent signing was announced last March:

First three pages all positives. “The next Rudi”. “He’ll make us millions”. “From his Twitter activity, seems like he gets us”

One bad game/decision in the Hampden semi against Rangers and there was criticism around page 4 before it going back to being positive again after his league performances and goals.

The player described in the thread we’re currently in and other recent ones is not the same player described in the one linked above. But they are, that’s the thing. The one people were talking about March last year didn’t suddenly become a dud. Which means he’s not, and people are choosing to focus on the negative and pretending he was ever lauded. It’s weird behaviour.

Yeah . I do wonder if following the fortune of Hearts is far more about venting emotions than supporting the efforts of the players to achieve success

Funny old game

January 19

25 minutes ago, ...andFulton'sBaggio said:

Ha ha 🤣

Kabangu found his level too, then?

Aye, hattrick was on... :thumbsup:

January 19

1 minute ago, Oneneilberry said:

we comment on it every game ,that we skip he does too before he actually starts running ,brutal

Why does it bother you

January 19

I still hold hope. Vargas has barely had time off for 2 years, overlooked by nearly everyone, that's not good for anyone

January 19

I still think anyone who is judging him on a poorly translated newspaper article or letting that in any way colour their opinion of him is a reactionary baby.

Judge him for what he's done for us in the past.

He hasn't been at the races this season but he's been in and out. He's shown plenty in the past and he never hides or doesn't try.

I've still got patience. If he can work on his finishing there's a good player there.

And to any clowns calling him "arrogant" for trying to back himself... ****ing hell. There's a difference between that and confidence.

January 19

6 minutes ago, Oneneilberry said:

we comment on it every game ,that we skip he does too before he actually starts running ,brutal

It’s actually a good way to get up to speed quicker from a standing start. Watch rugby and a vast number of the backs do it. Over the first 5 yards it makes a real difference.

January 19

21 minutes ago, Star Lizard said:

Thanks . I wish more supporters were as honest as that . You speak for a lot of people who would never admit the same thing

There are quite a few on this forum and not just towards Vargas either

Personally I just want what is best for Hearts

Ha, thanks. It's sometimes hard to change your opinion when your mind's made up. I see those Devlin stats but I'm still reluctant to admit that he is an asset to the team because I don't particularly like him.

January 19

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

His problem is going to be when the new players establish themselves.

No place for him then. Had his chance.

I think he'll be more effective when we have lots more good players in the team. I think the same will apply to Dhanda as well.

Both will grow in to exciting players for us I think.

January 19

2 minutes ago, viva hate said:

Ha, thanks. It's sometimes hard to change your opinion when your mind's made up. I see those Devlin stats but I'm still reluctant to admit that he is an asset to the team because I don't particularly like him.

Genuinely wish more supporters spoke with as much honesty and a dour mate . I totally disagree with your opinions but I do respect your honesty 👍

January 19

17 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

I still think anyone who is judging him on a poorly translated newspaper article or letting that in any way colour their opinion of him is a reactionary baby.

Judge him for what he's done for us in the past.

He hasn't been at the races this season but he's been in and out. He's shown plenty in the past and he never hides or doesn't try.

I've still got patience. If he can work on his finishing there's a good player there.

And to any clowns calling him "arrogant" for trying to back himself... ****ing hell. There's a difference between that and confidence.

Just not very good.

January 19

3 hours ago, Boris5115 said:

Only football player I've ever known to run like a pony.

Steven Boyack had a weird running style as well.

January 19

1 hour ago, Star Lizard said:

Alternatively -

Often beats his man , often wins the ball back for us , and scored nine goals last season

And this season?

You know, the one that matters...

January 19

52 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Vargas and shankland were brilliant last season and played off each other’s confidence. Oh how easy to ignore that and just say ‘they’re shite’.

Shankland had a great season but dont you think " brilliant " is a slight over exaggeration when referring to Vargas's contribution ?

January 19

8 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

And this season?

You know, the one that matters...

Exactly. Naismith had a great season last season but shite this season and rightly cost him his job. Seems for some posters it’s ok to excuse certain players being shite but not the manager who almost got a record points total last season. How does that work?

January 19

1 hour ago, ...andFulton'sBaggio said:

Lovely bit of close control and dinked cross to set up the third goal on Friday? 🤷‍♂️

Give a nine year contract ?

January 19

10 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Exactly. Naismith had a great season last season but shite this season and rightly cost him his job. Seems for some posters it’s ok to excuse certain players being shite but not the manager who almost got a record points total last season. How does that work?

SM paid the price.

The players are now also paying the price. At least , some of them.

January 19

3 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

SM paid the price.

The players are now also paying the price. At least , some of them.

Are they though? The likes of McKay and Oda, yes but the rest of them?

Vargas - joins Herediano on loan (updated)

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