Tough decision time

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Not for me. With some activity in January and Critchley getting more time I believe we can be safe with a a good second half of the season. Any respectability in the league has gone already.

 

Go as far as we can in Europe to gain confidence and feel good around the club and throw everything at winning the Scottish cup.

 

Chucking Europe would be would destroying for the club.

I agree. 

[Rods]

We have to be realistic on Europe our next 3 games are the tough ones.

 

Play the youngsters/ fringe players in those and get ourselves up the league.

 

Smash petrocub and go through

[ToadKiller Dog]

We should expect the best effort in every competition we enter .

European football in the new year would be a big achievement for a non ugly side 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, vegas-voss said:

We need to forget about Europe play fringe and youngsters.Use Europe as a rest for the league games apart from the Petrocub.Shite I know but needs must this first team players need to be getting back to one game a week pronto.

I can't see the Club turning its back on potentially millions, just so that we can finish 5th or 6th in the league instead of 10th.  My numbers are conjecture, of course, just to make the point.

[Victorian]

We're going to have to start again and attempt to rescue ourselves after the Aberdeen match.  We have a chance on Saturday.  We also have a chance vs Aberdeen.  But it's possible we get **** all right through to that point.  We might be about 4 or 5 points adrift.

 

It's a different picture after that.  18 more games pre-split and only 3 vs the top 3.  Then 5 more post-split.  If we're playing the top 3 again we're safe.  Those 15 matches vs the bottom 9 pre-split is how we save ourselves.  7 or 8 wins gives us a very good chance.

[AlphonseCapone]

Understand the logic but disagree.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

39 minutes ago, 1953 said:

I've also found myself wondering if Europe is worth it if we can't cope with the number of games, but then I find myself wondering why the hell footballers can't play 2 games in a week? 

It’s because of the athletic intensity level of professional football is actually insanely taxing on the body and the mind.
 

It takes a lot out of a player. Metabolites accumulate during intense actions (the body basically starts to eat itself), there’s glycogen depletion in muscle fibres (which is when you can do damage to tendons and ligaments, the muscle can essentially run out of fuel and gives way), and exercise-induced muscle damage (EIMD) which is tiny tears from the muscle being constantly contracted and stretched under loads as you are making these sharp movements to change direction quickly. All of this essentially boils down to one thing: a world of pain. 90 minutes of professional football absolutely ****s the body up. And that in turn takes a psychological toll as well. 

Not enough fans have an appreciation of how much a single game takes out of a player physically and mentally.
 

Fans, like yourself, just think ah you’re doing this for a job, therefore you should be able to do it twice a week. It’s not physiologically possible for the body to get ****ed ip like that then go out and maintain the same intensity level. Players then get depleted faster with each game in quick succession and you’re in a spiral of fatigue. Yes, including mental fatigue. 😶

[Cruyff]

Nah, play for Europe and the Cup. As long as we finish 11th in the league. 

[Drylaw Hearts]

Unless Shankland and Barrie McKay decide they want to start playing football again…….the only way of fixing our problems are to sign better players in the attacking and creative positions.

 

January is probably our most important transfer window since we exited administration.

 

 

 

 

[EH11 2NL]

Absolutely no chance, we have already made a fortune and there's more to be made. 

[Uncle Buck]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

agree with the OP. Can’t believe at this point any rational person could disagree

the players have ruined their own opportunity at European football and now we need to be pragmatic.

 

league is the priority 100%. We are in real

trouble.  We have 5 points less than we did in the first week of November under Austin McPhee.  Having played a game more 

 

 

rest players and rotate as many as possible in the next 3 fixtures.  Then go beat Petrocub.

 

 

Yeah let’s give the first team a well earned rest and leave the kids hung out to dry, even though we’re on the verge of getting to the last 16. Great plan.

[MattyK82]

10 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Nah, play for Europe and the Cup. As long as we finish 11th in the league. 

11th would mean a playoff 😳

[Gavman81]

Nah, could make last 16 play offs and then get a decent draw in actual last 16 and all of a sudden you’re 2 games away from the quarter finals of the conference and what a rush that would be! 
 

I could see us doing something daft like that this season and being bottom 2 in the actual league until well into Jan

Edited October 31, 2024 by Gavman81

[stirlo]

This is nuts at many levels. But first and foremost the idea that if we forget about Europe we'll automatically start winning in the league is nonsensical. The reason we're struggling in the league has very little to do with the number of games we're playing and a lot to do with the fact that we only have one recognised goalscorer who has basically stopped scoring goals.

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

We need to forget about Europe play fringe and youngsters.Use Europe as a rest for the league games apart from the Petrocub.Shite I know but needs must this first team players need to be getting back to one game a week pronto.

The only bright light in the season so far and you want us to Chuck it ?

 

Perhaps if there was a guaranteed direct benefit, and we’d go charging up the league, but there just isn’t.

 

The same players who are underperforming in the league are doing pretty well in Europe

 

We’re not going down. The league season is barely salvageable looking at this stage and a finish from 6th to 10th is disappointing but doesn’t cause any long term damage.

 

Doing well in Europe comes with pretty significant benefits

[DS98]

Europe might be the one saving grace this season. I’d grudgingly accept a pish league season (avoiding the R word obviously) but also say getting into the last 16 of the Conference League. Which is do-able. 

[Cruyff]

55 minutes ago, MattyK82 said:

11th would mean a playoff 😳

We'll win a play off.

[Forrest]

At half time last night, I was looking at 4th. There's still no reason any we can't get that. If Kent hadn't had a brain fart, we'd be 1 goal behind Dundee. There's no way I'm writing off Europe or the league season. 

[gregzy2k7]

Because of our heavy schedule, I think we need to utilize our academy a bit better,

 

We are not going to have a great season this year imo,

 

Why not use this season to blood some youngsters into our first team,

 

Guys like Tait, Wilson, Sandilands, Pollock etc

 

We should be playing these guys more often after a euro game and allowing the first team players to recover better and reduce the possibility of more injuries imo.

[Randy Marsh]

Nah. Folk are forking out a lot of money to go abroad for matches just before Xmas.  They don't deserve to be short changed by seeing a 2nd string team.  That said, it is difficult to know what our best 11 is right now as the squad is a shambles.

[Percival King]

We could put a white flag on the pole next to the UEFA flags to tell everyone we've just given up. What's the point in getting into Europe if we more or less just give up after a couple of games? We'd look weak and it could have repercussions beyond the here and now.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

In 1988/89 when we had a long run in Europe, ultimately losing to Bayern, we struggled early in the season and ultimately finished 6th in the premier league.  🥸

as you say early in the season similar to this season our problems started before Europe kicked in

similar issues too in that we struggled to score with Alan Moore and Wayne foster our main forwards both of who weren’t prolific and Alan Moore pretty young with unconvincing Iain Ferguson in and out of the team

 

by coincidence I watched a game from early in that season recently where we totally pummelled Motherwell but couldn’t score and then I think Alan Moore gets a couple to put us 2-0 up which was a fair reflection 

 

we then concede 2 soft goals out of nothing and draw 2-2 which feels like a defeat

 

i remember Wayne foster missing a penalty at home to st mirren in a game which we either drew or lost

 

like always seems to happen when you’re struggling every 30 yarder hits the bar and every opposition 30 yarder goes in off the underside of the bar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

European matches are the saving grace ffs

[feedthefox]

Another tough decision should be made about Craig Gordon. We all love the guy and I'm sure he could still make reflex saves when he's 60 but I'm at an absolute loss why he's our first choice when Zander is a Hearts player.

 

Need to let head rule over heart here.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

6 hours ago, 1953 said:

I've also found myself wondering if Europe is worth it if we can't cope with the number of games, but then I find myself wondering why the hell footballers can't play 2 games in a week? 

makes you wonder how tennis players manage - they’re sometimes playing 3 and 4 hour games in searing heat smashing there limbs off rock hard ground and almost always carrying injuries with maybe only one days rest in between - having to play every point - some of our poor players probably only touch the ball 15 times in 90 minutes or something   (Albeit they need to run sometimes without the ball too  )

 

yet 2 games a week for a relatively short period is too much - what a joke

Posters on here taking about players looking exhausted

 

 

 

 

[Captain Canada]

We can't throw young guys ino the three tough European games coming up. 

 

The real issue for me is that fact we've got a big squad but there aren't enough players we can rely on. 

 

If we had better options than the likes of Halkett, Oda, McKay and Grant, we could rotate a bit more and still be competitive.

 

I'm sure NC has realised we're carrying a lot of dead wood in the squad. 

[YYZ]

12 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

We need to forget about Europe play fringe and youngsters.Use Europe as a rest for the league games apart from the Petrocub.Shite I know but needs must this first team players need to be getting back to one game a week pronto.

 

If we win our next home European fixture I could see some wiggle room for squad rotation as it would put us in a fantastic position to progress in Europe.

 

When you play in Europe you have to register the players who will be involved. Hearts squad is here - Hearts | Squad | UEFA Conference League 2024/25 | UEFA.com

 

There is a fair few young players in the squad, not sure it would do their confidence as players much good getting absolutely smashed in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

[redjambo]

11 hours ago, Taffin said:

Not for me. With some activity in January and Critchley getting more time I believe we can be safe with a a good second half of the season. Any respectability in the league has gone already.

 

Go as far as we can in Europe to gain confidence and feel good around the club and throw everything at winning the Scottish cup.

 

Chucking Europe would be would destroying for the club.

 

This, apart from the "destroying" bit. May as well give it a go.

[vegas-voss]

21 minutes ago, queensferryjambo said:

 

If we win our next home European fixture I could see some wiggle room for squad rotation as it would put us in a fantastic position to progress in Europe.

 

When you play in Europe you have to register the players who will be involved. Hearts squad is here - Hearts | Squad | UEFA Conference League 2024/25 | UEFA.com

 

There is a fair few young players in the squad, not sure it would do their confidence as players much good getting absolutely smashed in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

Aye total oversight by me really trying to find solutions  that just aren't. I blame emotions 

[SMJ_1874]

12 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

We need to forget about Europe play fringe and youngsters.Use Europe as a rest for the league games apart from the Petrocub.Shite I know but needs must this first team players need to be getting back to one game a week pronto.

Serious question, do you ever go and watch the B team? if you did then you’d know that 
there are no youngsters in the B team that are ready to step up at this moment in time. The ones we do have, Wilson and Tait, then they’ve shown what they can do. Against the Killie cloggers then Wislon was brushed aside too easily just like Kent and Rowles were. 
 

At £335k for a win then there’s no chance we treat Europe like it’s a Sunday morning kickabout and fill it with youngsters. We also tried ‘fringe players’ at Falkirk remember? One of our central defenders waddled out the tunnel in 3XL shorts and our centre forward that day looked like a Sunday morning pub player hungover from the night before. He couldn’t even run ffs. 
 

The imbalance of our squad is absolutely frightening and that’s on Naismith and recruitment. No decent striker and no one to replace the current misfiring one. No pacy wingers to stretch the defence and two centre backs who are as soft as shit. Kent can’t pass a ball more than 10 yards unless it’s sideways to Rowles or back to Gordon with no opposition in his line of sight. He can’t run with the ball out of defence and his confidence looks shot. Couple in the fact that the players aren’t fit enough for the rigours of domestic and European football and it’s no surprise we’re mired in a relegation battle.
 

If we don’t get our act together pronto then the Germans will be looking to take at least 5 of us on Thursday night. The same Heidenheim team that almost got a draw away to Dortmund and the same Dortmund  who took 7 off Celtic a few weeks ago. I just hope Beni is back for this one. 

[DG_HMFC]

12 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Aye asking fit young pro footballers to play 2 games a week, shocking 🤔.

 

Exactly.

 

Athletes at their age should be able to play every few days.

 

 

 

 

[YYZ]

29 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Aye total oversight by me really trying to find solutions  that just aren't. I blame emotions 

 

 

As Hearts fans I think we are all racking our brains for solutions to the mess we are in just now. Unfortunately it really is out of our hands.

 

I absolutely get where you are coming from as the scenario you suggested had went through my head as well. 

 

[Taffin]

51 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

This, apart from the "destroying" bit. May as well give it a go.

 

That was meant to say soul destroying (as in people at the club put so much in to achieve it and the fans look forward to it so much). Slightly less dramatic that it reads as written.

[red]

This Yo-Yo thing with Europe is very annoying, Aberdeen will cruise 3rd this year at least but due to squad size will struggle next year as we are this year (and every year we are involved in group stage euro football) 

 

Personally my preference this particular season would be to stave off relegation  fast, throw everything at the Scottish Cup and Conf League (to make serious dough) and hopefully win the cup (wishful I know at this stage)

 

This season is over for Hearts and we will do well to get top 6. It’s gonna take NC months to sort this mess out. Hopefully we strengthen in Jan and Bloom is in by then and by this time we are safe then focus on next season. 
 

by the time the scottish cup latter stages come around we should be in a much better place with NC plans aslong as there is no brora repeat in the early stages. 
 

we go from there but imo this season is done. Insurmountable (hope I’m wrong)  

[Ex member of the SaS]

9 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

makes you wonder how tennis players manage - they’re sometimes playing 3 and 4 hour games in searing heat smashing there limbs off rock hard ground and almost always carrying injuries with maybe only one days rest in between - having to play every point - some of our poor players probably only touch the ball 15 times in 90 minutes or something   (Albeit they need to run sometimes without the ball too  )

 

yet 2 games a week for a relatively short period is too much - what a joke

Posters on here taking about players looking exhausted

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Got pelters for basically the same post. The reason the players can't manage two or three games a week is down to the fitness regimen. Stated before ALL team train the same way with hop skip and jump around cones. This does not build up body strength and stamina.

[GBJambo]

Leagues our bread and butter. 
 

Even finishing bottom 6 would be an absolute disgrace and heads should roll 

[Jim Panzee]

17 hours ago, Carter said:

Persisting with an overweight immobile disinterested striker who has zero competition for his place irrespective of his form, isn't working out too well for us. 

Awesome! we're back to Shanks being a fatty again because we lost a game - love it!

 

[Carter]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

Awesome! we're back to Shanks being a fatty again because we lost a game - love it!

 

Surely you'd agree he's not as fit as he could be? Watching him trying to run away from a bang average CB the other night was dreadful. Whether we wish to acknowledge it or not, Shankland is a big part of the problem this season. 

[Jim Panzee]

3 minutes ago, Carter said:

Surely you'd agree he's not as fit as he could be? Watching him trying to run away from a bang average CB the other night was dreadful. Whether we wish to acknowledge it or not, Shankland is a big part of the problem this season. 

I personally don't see much difference in his fitness. He's never been blessed with pace. His key skill is losing his markers and accurate shooting.

 

I'd say his lack of goals are THE biggest problem we have this season.

 

Last season he was literally scoring with his back to goal by lobbing the ball over the keeper - pure instinct.

 

This season, he's rarely troubled the keeper even when facing the goal and not being under pressure from a defender.

 

If we're lucky to see him start rattling the goals in like last season, the view of him being a fatty arbuckle will melt away.....like his enormous gut

[Carter]

1 minute ago, Jim Panzee said:

I personally don't see much difference in his fitness. He's never been blessed with pace. His key skill is losing his markers and accurate shooting.

 

I'd say his lack of goals are THE biggest problem we have this season.

 

Last season he was literally scoring with his back to goal by lobbing the ball over the keeper - pure instinct.

 

This season, he's rarely troubled the keeper even when facing the goal and not being under pressure from a defender.

 

If we're lucky to see him start rattling the goals in like last season, the view of him being a fatty arbuckle will melt away.....like his enormous gut

We could've very easily encountered the problems being experienced this season during last season. Had Naismith come unstuck sooner or Shankland had a spell like he's having this season the outcome would've been similar. Far too reliant on his goals for the past couple of years.

 

That's what makes the Aberdeen performance all the more commendable given they're achieving it post Miovski. 

[Jim Panzee]

23 minutes ago, Carter said:

We could've very easily encountered the problems being experienced this season during last season. Had Naismith come unstuck sooner or Shankland had a spell like he's having this season the outcome would've been similar. Far too reliant on his goals for the past couple of years.

 

That's what makes the Aberdeen performance all the more commendable given they're achieving it post Miovski. 

yeap - agree with this.

 

Suspect Vargas was was the Ginnelly replacement, but hasn't matched Gino's goals as they'd have helped shanks going through a bad patch.

 

Fingers crossed he gets on the score sheet tomorrow. Even a scruffy one off his arse would do......it's big enough......

[leginten]

36 minutes ago, Carter said:

Surely you'd agree he's not as fit as he could be? Watching him trying to run away from a bang average CB the other night was dreadful. Whether we wish to acknowledge it or not, Shankland is a big part of the problem this season. 

Before the derby last Sunday I rewatched a lot of clips of Shankland's goals against Hibs, starting with the one in August 2022 at Easter Road. He looks considerably heavier now than he did then. Even in January 2023 when he scored that brilliant second goal in the Cup game at ER he looked positively sylph-like compared to now.

 

His weight may not be the only factor in his current goal drought. It may not even be the most important one. But it certainly won’t be helping, and I think it’s indicative of a lack of professionalism on his part.

[EIEIO]

Most leagues in England for example the Championship play Tuesday and Saturday all season long. Fatigue is just another excuse. If we were winning nobody would mention it. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

18 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It’s because of the athletic intensity level of professional football is actually insanely taxing on the body and the mind.
 

It takes a lot out of a player. Metabolites accumulate during intense actions (the body basically starts to eat itself), there’s glycogen depletion in muscle fibres (which is when you can do damage to tendons and ligaments, the muscle can essentially run out of fuel and gives way), and exercise-induced muscle damage (EIMD) which is tiny tears from the muscle being constantly contracted and stretched under loads as you are making these sharp movements to change direction quickly. All of this essentially boils down to one thing: a world of pain. 90 minutes of professional football absolutely ****s the body up. And that in turn takes a psychological toll as well. 

Not enough fans have an appreciation of how much a single game takes out of a player physically and mentally.
 

Fans, like yourself, just think ah you’re doing this for a job, therefore you should be able to do it twice a week. It’s not physiologically possible for the body to get ****ed ip like that then go out and maintain the same intensity level. Players then get depleted faster with each game in quick succession and you’re in a spiral of fatigue. Yes, including mental fatigue. 😶

 

Well said and well overdue

[Ricardo Quaresma]

18 hours ago, MattyK82 said:

11th would mean a playoff 😳

 

Aye, if we end up down there (which I doubt) then 10th, Play-Off is beemur territory

[Ricardo Quaresma]

18 hours ago, Gavman81 said:

Nah, could make last 16 play offs and then get a decent draw in actual last 16 and all of a sudden you’re 2 games away from the quarter finals of the conference and what a rush that would be! 
 

I could see us doing something daft like that this season and being bottom 2 in the actual league until well into Jan

 

3 New Players allowed for European Competitions, plus they won't be cup tied

 

Signed and registered by 00:00 CET, I believe that's 23:00 on the 5th of February 2025

 

Mmm

 

Edit: forgot link 👇

 

https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-Conference-League-2024/25/Article-32-Subsequent-registration-Online

 

-

Edited November 1, 2024 by Ricardo Quaresma

[1953]

10 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

makes you wonder how tennis players manage - they’re sometimes playing 3 and 4 hour games in searing heat smashing there limbs off rock hard ground and almost always carrying injuries with maybe only one days rest in between - having to play every point - some of our poor players probably only touch the ball 15 times in 90 minutes or something   (Albeit they need to run sometimes without the ball too  )

 

yet 2 games a week for a relatively short period is too much - what a joke

Posters on here taking about players looking exhausted

 

 

 

 

Exactly, tennis is my usual comparison too!

[Ricardo Quaresma]

18 hours ago, stirlo said:

This is nuts at many levels. But first and foremost the idea that if we forget about Europe we'll automatically start winning in the league is nonsensical. The reason we're struggling in the league has very little to do with the number of games we're playing and a lot to do with the fact that we only have one recognised goalscorer who has basically stopped scoring goals.

 

There may also be players that only have a penchant for European games or big games, or gawd knows what type of games; I'm sure an Analysis would reveal a couple of interesting points

 

Some players play better against certain teams too, that's an obvious one, of course

[The Treasurer]

Yes we've in the middle of a tough run of games, but after next week's game at ibrox most of them will have two weeks until the next game.

Couple of days off and then back to work 

[Mikey1874]

21 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

We need to forget about Europe play fringe and youngsters.Use Europe as a rest for the league games apart from the Petrocub.Shite I know but needs must this first team players need to be getting back to one game a week pronto.

 

None of the youngsters are ready. They are finding the Lowland League hard enough.