Joe Savage leaves Hearts ( updated )

[Pasquale for King]

I think if hes burnt out then he’s right to take a break. 
We need a replacement and there’s nothing wrong with tweaking the role for the best. 
McKinlay has no experience with any aspect of doing his job, Lancefield is based in London so those two are unlikely to be taking on much of his role. 
I would rather the manager sticks to his job, extra players to coach and games to plan for without taking on even more work. 

[Hashimoto]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

That’s a pretty outdated thought process. He’s well paid and it’s fitba so he should just accept being abused for doing his job. 😂

Rightly, or wrongly are we just to assume that it's only Hearts fans who will dish out abuse?

God help him if he ever goes to Govan

[Thunder and Lightning]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Who knows? He certainly got a lot of abuse late last year when the team were struggling under Naismith.  He did seem to take that very personally.  A lot of the same folk are now saying he did a good job. 🤪

 

So why would he wait so long to leave?  I don't think it's related.

[Jim Panzee]

3 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

 

So why would he wait so long to leave?  I don't think it's related.

possibly to show future employers that despite the abuse, he's someone who'll stick around to finish a job?

[Thunder and Lightning]

Just now, Jim Panzee said:

possibly to show future employers that despite the abuse, he's someone who'll stick around to finish a job?

 

Possibly mate.  Wish him well whatever.

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

 

So why would he wait so long to leave?  I don't think it's related.

End of season/start of new best time to leave and get a new job in that role I imagine.  Maybe he had a 6 month notice period, maybe he agreed to stay in until July.  Maybe there's another reason.  😎

[Bill Sikes]

1 hour ago, spacerjoe said:

They will be broadly the same. You name the role based on the broad responsibilities, so that you can easily hire for it and everyone in the business knows what they do. That's pretty basic in any company.

 

Of course, a Sales Director in one company will be different to another, depending on the size, maturity and type of business.

 

But, in essence, the goals and broad responsibilities of the role are the same.

 

I've had the same job title in my last 3 roles and each time the detail has altered a bit, based on similar parameters to the above, but the core goal of the job - what I'm measured by - has not.

 

Joe Savage's role as Sporting Director will have had the same core objectives as any other top league Sporting Director.

 

Cool story bro.

[Penrices left boot]

3 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

 

Don't forget the polls......every other day! 😂

 

Brexit has sorted that out, less of them nowadays.

 

 

The tantrums are glorious tho, we drop points to a Ross county or Motherwell and the emotional meltdown is glorious,  then same posters that greet about us dropping points v lesser teams with smaller budgets are posting how they expect us to beat the OF by believing and having a go.

Missed the meltdowns almost as much as  the football tbh.

 

The uber meltdown thread from early last season was a classic. 

Wasn't just toy's out the pram, it was akin to setting the pram on fire.

 

New signings are already been written off.... the season hasn't started!

 

[Jim Panzee]

21 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Brexit has sorted that out, less of them nowadays.

 

 

The tantrums are glorious tho, we drop points to a Ross county or Motherwell and the emotional meltdown is glorious,  then same posters that greet about us dropping points v lesser teams with smaller budgets are posting how they expect us to beat the OF by believing and having a go.

Missed the meltdowns almost as much as  the football tbh.

 

The uber meltdown thread from early last season was a classic. 

Wasn't just toy's out the pram, it was akin to setting the pram on fire.

 

New signings are already been written off.... the season hasn't started!

 

but you'd miss it if id didn't happen.

 

I confess I save kickaback for a mundane monday morning at work following a saturday defeat.....it's like Christmas morning wondering what surprise you'll get next when opening a thread 😆

[Smithian]

I'm interested to see how Savage is replaced. I don't think he can be replaced by simply giving Lancefield a bump in responsibility and Naismith more final word on matters.

 

I'm hoping for them to continue to have an empowered Sporting Director. I want someone with a bit of influence on recruitment and the tactics (which I hope would meet Naismith's) so that if we're in November and some EFL Championship club bins their manager and makes Naismith an offer he can't refuse, we have a plan organizationally to keep on the same path versus jerking around based on whomever the new manager is. No use building a possession club for Naismith if the next manager comes in and wants to in the low block. 

 

Basically, don't Hibs it

Edited July 19, 2024 by Smithian

[John Findlay]

Thanks for your time at Hearts Joe.

[SMJ_1874]

5 hours ago, The new West End said:

 

It was simply the personal abuse he received that made him leave.

No it wasn’t. It was nothing to do with that. He didn’t like the abuse but it wasn’t the reason he left us. 
 

Lots of speculation on here but it’s all guesswork. Joe left for personal reasons that won’t be divulged on a fans forum. 

[davemclaren]

34 minutes ago, SMJ_1874 said:

No it wasn’t. It was nothing to do with that. He didn’t like the abuse but it wasn’t the reason he left us. 
 

Lots of speculation on here but it’s all guesswork. Joe left for personal reasons that won’t be divulged on a fans forum. 

That's right and proper. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Smithian said:

I'm interested to see how Savage is replaced. I don't think he can be replaced by simply giving Lancefield a bump in responsibility and Naismith more final word on matters.

 

I'm hoping for them to continue to have an empowered Sporting Director. I want someone with a bit of influence on recruitment and the tactics (which I hope would meet Naismith's) so that if we're in November and some EFL Championship club bins their manager and makes Naismith an offer he can't refuse, we have a plan organizationally to keep on the same path versus jerking around based on whomever the new manager is. No use building a possession club for Naismith if the next manager comes in and wants to in the low block. 

 

Basically, don't Hibs it

^^^ this ^^^

[Bad Religion]

Will be interesting to see what happens here. 
 

Whoever they replace Savage with will give a pretty good indication of how ambitious the board are. 

 

Expecting nepotism, hope to be proved wrong. 

[spacerjoe]

5 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Cool story bro.

 

Thanks!

 

Looks like we all agree then on Joe Savage's remit as Sporting Director. Here was me thinking you would have a condescending retort that implies you know better than everyone, but instead we're all on the same page!

 

Looking forward to your next early 2000s reference also. That one really took me back.

 

Cool story bro. Classic.

 

 

[Armageddon]

He’ll end up at Celtic and Andy Webster will take his place.

 

Cheers Joe 👍🏻

[The new West End]

2 hours ago, SMJ_1874 said:

No it wasn’t. It was nothing to do with that. He didn’t like the abuse but it wasn’t the reason he left us. 
 

Lots of speculation on here but it’s all guesswork. Joe left for personal reasons that won’t be divulged on a fans forum. 

 

Ok

[rudi must stay]

Well done mate. Some great signings 

[Star Lizard]

We did well during his tenure . Thanks for whatever part he played in it 

[kingantti1874]

Thanks Joe, did a great job. The best compliment I can pay is I’m genuinely disappointed you’ve stepped away at a time we are really starting to make strides.  
 

I really hope it wasn’t becuase of the abuse from the tiny element of crazies, sadly that’s just football not that it justifies them in anyway but you won’t find it easier elsewhere.  
 

I don’t really buy the need a rest stuff either.  That’s life I’ve been working crazy hours for 15 years, I wish it was for HMFC and not a faceless corporation. 

 

none the less.  All the best, he has done a great job.  Just disappointed he hasn’t hung around the revel in some of the success I believe is coming

[OTT]

I'm hugely disappointed he's chosen to leave too. We were starting to make some huge strides forward, he really should have had 3 successive 3rd place finishes (Robbie collapse/Aberdeen freak from). Regardless, Promotion, 3rd, 4th and 3rd again are an amazing achievement and we'll probably continue to make money on the players he's signed for the next few years.

 

Genuinely gutted he's gone. 

[Penrices left boot]

I still think our scouts create shortlists and the manager has final say on signings, with that in mind  I see the dof role more of a business, over arching and strategic role so hopefully in regards to actually identifying and choosing the right player, it remains unaffected and the scouts and manager continue to do a good job.

Our wage budget will also determine the level and quality we can attract far more than who is dof imo. That is heading in the right direction.

 

He done well tho, appointed good managers and has overseen an improvement in the women's,  men and B team.

Good appointment by the board.

 

All the best to him, unless he stays in Scotland.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2024 by Bazzas right boot

[wavydavy]

11 hours ago, The new West End said:

 

It was simply the personal abuse he received that made him leave.

 

Can you reveal how you know that please?  I have met him a couple of times and he struck me as the type of guy who could handle that sort of stuff.

 

He classified himself as a "risk taker" so I would hazard a guess that he is trying something challenging in his new role whatever that will be.

 

Maybe you have an insight as to what that will be?

[JamboAl]

6 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

Will be interesting to see what happens here. 
 

Whoever they replace Savage with will give a pretty good indication of how ambitious the board are. 

 

Expecting nepotism, hope to be proved wrong. 

Did you have someone in mind?

[cosanostra]

The abuse from low-life internet trolls definitely seemed to affect him. It was clear to anyone who wasn't a moron that he didn't decide which players we signed yet he still seemed to get a lot of the blame for it. 

The club seems like we're in a far better state than when he arrived so thanks for that. Hope things work out unless you go to the Old Firm or a rival.

[Smithian]

I don’t believe Joe Savage quit due to abuse. And if he did and now thinks he is going go south to England, it will only be worse.

 

I admit bias in these cases. It’s not fair individuals in sports get abuse online. But there are bus drivers, police offers, receptionists, waitresses etc who get nasty feedback at a fraction of the salary. The world is a mean place.

 

Joe Savage, and his ilk, worked hard and earned their roles. Respect. But I won’t shed a tear over online abuse. I’d trade my salary and job in a heartbeat for a dream job .

Edited July 20, 2024 by Smithian

[Bad Religion]

6 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Did you have someone in mind?

 

The big guy that was put in temporary charge at the beginning of last season, Savages mate.

[RustyRightPeg]

23 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

The big guy that was put in temporary charge at the beginning of last season, Savages mate.

The guy that Naismith wants beside him? 

[Deodato]

He turned around a tanker. 

 

Our squad strategy before he arrived was a car crash on repeat. 

 

Think back to some of the wage theifs, coasters and deadwood the club spent scarce resources on. 

 

We fixed the stadium. We fixed the transfer strategy - we can now make progress. 

 

In terms of what to do with this (type of) role going forward, I've got a good example from West Ham. 

 

Okay, West Ham, it's EPL so you have to 'adjust expectations' but this is a club who want to stop being an also ran too. 

 

They've appointed Tim Steidten as technical director - and the fans are queitly confident that the org chart is working well with newly appointed Julen Lopetegui (after years of Moyes football). Check Tim's background - it's interesting. 

 

https://www.whufc.com/news/tim-steidten-appointed-west-ham-united-technical-director

 

It's one to watch in terms of what a DoF/TD does and doesn't do - getting the delicate balance right. What it'll take to want (and get) more than third place. 

 

Deodato

[OTT]

19 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think if hes burnt out then he’s right to take a break. 
We need a replacement and there’s nothing wrong with tweaking the role for the best. 
McKinlay has no experience with any aspect of doing his job, Lancefield is based in London so those two are unlikely to be taking on much of his role. 
I would rather the manager sticks to his job, extra players to coach and games to plan for without taking on even more work. 

 

Me too. Under Levein we saw the dangers of one man taking on too much work. 

 

I don't want Naismith to decline at all, then in a few years do an interview about becoming a control freak when Savage left. His focus needs to be the first team. 

 

Need to get a replacement in that isn't going to try and reinvent the wheel though too. Our direction of travel is excellent and needs to be maintained. Whether that is appointing Webster, or going external, I don't know. But I don't want to see Savages role being split up and not replaced. 

[Bad Religion]

16 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

The guy that Naismith wants beside him? 

Maybe, I’m not sure 🤷🏿‍♂️

[Shooter McGavin]

The zoomers will argue that the sporting director role has nothing to do with the football side of things, and that he was just wandering about twiddling his thumbs and making coffees.
 

Those sensible among us can see that we’ve went from a Championship level squad, to expecting 3rd, expecting to make inroads in Europe & be in with a chance of winning trophies. Joe has played a huge part in that.

 

And under him we signed our first ever PFA player of the year, SPFL player of the year, SPFL top scorer, back-to-back 20+ goals striker who’s only a few away from being our all-time European scorer, for less than £400k…

 

[BackOfTheNet]

6 hours ago, Smithian said:

I don’t believe Joe Savage quit due to abuse. And if he did and now thinks he is going go south to England, it will only be worse.

 

I admit bias in these cases. It’s not fair individuals in sports get abuse online. But there are bus drivers, police offers, receptionists, waitresses etc who get nasty feedback at a fraction of the salary. The world is a mean place.

 

Joe Savage, and his ilk, worked hard and earned their roles. Respect. But I won’t shed a tear over online abuse. I’d trade my salary and job in a heartbeat for a dream job .

Savage has performed similar roles in England with Preston and Norwich. If he does go to England it’s not exactly going to be new to him.

 

Which is why I’d like us to get someone in who has had a similar role at a decent to big size club before. For all the unwarranted slagging that went his way at times, Savage has made a positive difference in multiple fronts at the club. What I don’t want to see is someone with limited to no experience taking on a big position. Which I think Webster would be, who I see getting it if I’m honest.

[jamboinglasgow]

6 hours ago, Smithian said:

I don’t believe Joe Savage quit due to abuse. And if he did and now thinks he is going go south to England, it will only be worse.

 

I admit bias in these cases. It’s not fair individuals in sports get abuse online. But there are bus drivers, police offers, receptionists, waitresses etc who get nasty feedback at a fraction of the salary. The world is a mean place.

 

Joe Savage, and his ilk, worked hard and earned their roles. Respect. But I won’t shed a tear over online abuse. I’d trade my salary and job in a heartbeat for a dream job .

 

except its widely agreed that abuse of those others is wrong and companies and organisations can take actions against the abuse that these people get. The abuse also doesn't follow them on social media or just in their everyday life. There is still a wide acceptance that abuse is part of football, so is seen either what are you going to do or its the right of fans.

 

I dont think people realise how relentless online abuse is unless they are in the centre of it. And just because you get more money and a job you may want, doesn't mean abuse doesn't hurt less.

[Penrices left boot]

21 hours ago, The new West End said:

 

It was simply the personal abuse he received that made him leave.

 

Unlikely the major factor, in football verbal abuse is  part and parcel. 

 

Ofc, if 50/50 and the abuse was ott and affecting his personal life and family life it could tip the scales,  but in football,  abuse is vert unlikely to be the major factor. 

Every clubs fan base have its gammon/ moronic element.

 

Far more likley family reasons or financial To be the main reason. 

 

 

 

 

[Lone Striker]

9 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

I still think our scouts create shortlists and the manager has final say on signings, with that in mind  I see the dof role more of a business, over arching and strategic role so hopefully in regards to actually identifying and choosing the right player, it remains unaffected and the scouts and manager continue to do a good job.

Our wage budget will also determine the level and quality we can attract far more than who is dof imo. That is heading in the right direction.

 

He done well tho, appointed good managers and has overseen an improvement in the women's,  men and B team.

Good appointment by the board.

 

All the best to him, unless he stays in Scotland.

 

 

 

Yes, thats my thoughts on his role too.  Very little to do with identifying signings.    His role also included recruitment of senior  coaching staff (inc women's and academy), dealing with agents & contracts, and managing the budget.   He's clearly done a very good job.   The club definitely needs to find a replacement quickly.

[Bill Sikes]

He's no longer at the club and sorry to say it but i haven't seen anything remarkable about his tenure.

 

Football is still as dull as dishwater, we can quite clearly attract better players these days due to financial security and fantastic management by the Board above him.

 

If his job was to improve the Football side of the business then id say hes failed, also allowed a manager to lose the plot completely under his watchful eye.

 

Overall gets pass marks but with an empty trophy cabinet nothing to write home about.

 

Appreciate the hard work and hope you are happier elsewhere. Bye.

 

 

[Shooter McGavin]

7 hours ago, cosanostra said:

The abuse from low-life internet trolls definitely seemed to affect him. It was clear to anyone who wasn't a moron that he didn't decide which players we signed yet he still seemed to get a lot of the blame for it. 

The club seems like we're in a far better state than when he arrived so thanks for that. Hope things work out unless you go to the Old Firm or a rival.

The mental gymnastics folk put themselves through to be negative about a huge who’s been hugely positive for us, and been with us during a really enjoyable period, is quite remarkable 😂 

 

We’ve just finished on our highest amount of league points since 2005/06, we’re selling out every single home game and travelling in big numbers to away games, we’ve got more European group stage football to look forward to, the club has never been financially in a better position, the stadium has never been in a better condition, but hey, the sporting director didn’t have anything to do with any of that, but any signing that didn’t really work was definitely all his fault, of-course.

 

Angry internet people need something to be sad and bitter about I suppose.

[Penrices left boot]

20 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Yes, thats my thoughts on his role too.  Very little to do with identifying signings.    His role also included recruitment of senior  coaching staff (inc women's and academy), dealing with agents & contracts, and managing the budget.   He's clearly done a very good job.   The club definitely needs to find a replacement quickly.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

All the operational pieces, specialists are in place and everyone that Joe put in is still in place,  so there is no reason it's not BAU.

 

Ofc, we will need someone in place to oversee the next phase of recruitment and to keep continuity but there is absolutely no rush, all about the right person.

 

Football operations should and will remain unaffected in the short term.

 

 

[Famous 1874]

I’d have suggested previously linked Lee Darnborough could have been in with a shot but he signed for Stoke as head of recruitment at the beginning of June. 
 

Whilst recruitment clearly isn’t the only factor that goes into a sporting director, it’s clearly a big factor and there seems to be a pathway to go from chief scout to sporting director / DOF.

 

Peterborough in recent years appear to have a decent trading model. Their chief scout is only 34 years old and I’d assume would be on board with the data analytical approach that Savage and Lancefield have implemented. Sam Gaughran is his name. That being said, Barry Fry is their director of football so I guess Gaughran’s influence could be limited. 
 

Takis Fysass clearly would be an unbelievable appointment. Knows the club. Has experience in a sporting director role and is bound to have excellent contacts. 

I also think Austin MacPhee would be a decent sporting director and should have some good contacts. Him being a set piece coach for Villa though means he might not even fancy that type of role. 

[soonbe110]

37 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

The zoomers will argue that the sporting director role has nothing to do with the football side of things, and that he was just wandering about twiddling his thumbs and making coffees.
 

Those sensible among us can see that we’ve went from a Championship level squad, to expecting 3rd, expecting to make inroads in Europe & be in with a chance of winning trophies. Joe has played a huge part in that.

 

And under him we signed our first ever PFA player of the year, SPFL player of the year, SPFL top scorer, back-to-back 20+ goals striker who’s only a few away from being our all-time European scorer, for less than £400k…

 

Not sure Savage should get a lot of the credit for that signing. I’ll give you the rest of your comments though 

[Shooter McGavin]

22 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Not sure Savage should get a lot of the credit for that signing. I’ll give you the rest of your comments though 

At the end of the day, he might not have actively been out scouting the players, but he was the guy tasked with selling the club to players, getting the deals over the line and getting them in the door.

[cosanostra]

Not sure Savage should get much of the credit for any of the signings unless he's convincing guys who want £10k a week to sign for £5k a week. 

[Bad Religion]

3 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

Not sure Savage should get much of the credit for any of the signings unless he's convincing guys who want £10k a week to sign for £5k a week. 

 

Who should get the credit then?

[cosanostra]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Who should get the credit then?

 

Robbie or Naismith. 

All of our players have been their choices according to Savage.

[Bad Religion]

1 minute ago, cosanostra said:

 

Robbie or Naismith. 

All of our players have been their choices according to Savage.

 

[cosanostra]

Just now, Bad Religion said:

 

 

You think he was lying and he actually picked our signings?

[Bad Religion]

Just now, cosanostra said:

 

You think he was lying and he actually picked our signings?

 

He said Bob had the 'final say' on signings but he was clearly only saying that to make him feel included. 

[innerjambo]

This is all just speculation of course. But if Lancefield initially sourced the likes of Vargas, Taylor, and even the Japanese and most of the Australian players, then Savage should be easily replaceable.

Not taking anything away from Savage, in that, he performed his duties very well, and made any transfers smooth, and without any unnecessary complications.