***Official Heart of Midlothian v H1b5 Match Day Thread***

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

I think I'd like to see that from time to time, defintiely.  Hope it isn't a Shanks OR Boycie type scenario.  Perhaps it is at the moment as they're our only CFs, so we kind of need to have one on the bench to cover the other.  But going forward (in both senses) Boycie is such a good player and hard worker, I'd like to see him in the 10 role or up top with Shanks from time to time.

 

It's bandied around on here so so much but I just can't see past 4231 being best to fit our best players in their best positions.  Can't argue with the success rate of 343  of course, so no complaints, I just think it could do us a favour.  Only issue which is slight is Cochrane is on good form and a cracking player and I think he's the one to lose out in a 4231 if all fit.  That's a strong bench though

 

Agree about Boyce & Shanks. Cochrane has been very good recently and deserves to start (my hunch is that he'll be a big star for us in the next year or two and make the club a lot of money).

 

As for 4231, if Davenport turns out to be good and Beni is back, it will be harder to leave that midfield quality on the bench. As our squad strengthens, I suspect we will start using 433 (as most of the top clubs appear to do).

[TheBigO]

3 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

Agree about Boyce & Shanks. Cochrane has been very good recently and deserves to start (my hunch is that he'll be a big star for us in the next year or two and make the club a lot of money).

 

As for 4231, if Davenport turns out to be good and Beni is back, it will be harder to leave that midfield quality on the bench. As our squad strengthens, I suspect we will start using 433 (as most of the top clubs appear to do).

The funny thing is we're all kind of trying to shoe-horn our best players in to a "best XI" and the truth is it probably doesn't exist.  As the euro games start especially, someone being on the bench isn't dropped, they're rested etc.  The trick is to have 3/4 CMs of similar quality and type/compliment of one another who can all be valid choices for any game and similar in all the other positions really.

 

Still think 4231 is the way to go though!  It looks like 433, 442, and even 343 etc depending on phase of play, but its the best I can describe it.  For a few games last season when it worked really well, people were saying GMS was LWB for example.  For me, he wasn't, it was 4 at the back and he was ahead of Kingsley at LB, but the team pivoted a lot to allow Natty lots of freedom and Souttar to step out with the ball too.  I liked that shape, the only negative perhaps being McKay was a bit stuck out on the right wing and I like him more in field and involved.

 

Options, options!!!!!

[gordiegords]

Must start quicker, same thing happened a few games against them last season and as crap as they are they always look more at it in the in the beginning anyway. They will be kicking lumps out us from the off, I’d like to see us grab the game by the scruff of the neck from the first whistle, My first trip to fester, Hhgh.

[chuck berrys hairline]

58 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

I love him as a player and he's been a great asset to Hearts for years now, but his ageing body is catching up with him. Even as a defender I'm not sure he's at the level we need anymore.

 

 

This, you could see at times last season his brain working faster than his body. Should be used as a stop gap and experience when needed shouldn't start on Sunday imo. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

We need Gordon to be a bit quicker with getting the ball out 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

3 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

We need Gordon to be a bit quicker with getting the ball out 

I actually agree. He started last season very slow on that front as well but sped up as the season progressed.

 

To be fair though he needs movement ahead of him to do that.

[BigAlim]

Cochrane will play more games than anyone this season imo

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I actually agree. He started last season very slow on that front as well but sped up as the season progressed.

 

To be fair though he needs movement ahead of him to do that.

Agree about the movement but he really needs to be quicker - and kick the ball as far up the pitch if no one near him is available 

 

too many times he chats to the 2 defenders for a few mins and eventually gets it out - probably wasting about 5 mins each game 

[Rudolf]

1 minute ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Agree about the movement but he really needs to be quicker - and kick the ball as far up the pitch if no one near him is available 

 

too many times he chats to the 2 defenders for a few mins and eventually gets it out - probably wasting about 5 mins each game 

You come out with some nonsense, but that takes the biscuit🤣

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Just now, Rudolf said:

You come out with some nonsense, but that takes the biscuit🤣

Someone else already agrees with me on here and folk around me at the last game also were getting a bit annoyed 

[Masonic]

anyone not able to go il take two tickets at face value off u

[karipidis]

32 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Agree about the movement but he really needs to be quicker - and kick the ball as far up the pitch if no one near him is available 

 

too many times he chats to the 2 defenders for a few mins and eventually gets it out - probably wasting about 5 mins each game 

What a load of utter nonsense 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, gordiegords said:

Must start quicker, same thing happened a few games against them last season and as crap as they are they always look more at it in the in the beginning anyway. They will be kicking lumps out us from the off, I’d like to see us grab the game by the scruff of the neck from the first whistle, My first trip to fester, Hhgh.

 

 

I'd like us to start better but not necessarily faster. 

Teams that start fast often run out of steam and struggle later on. 

If you plan to start fast we need to have the quality to get a couple of early goals, I'm not sure we are that much better than the rest of the SPFL teams to have that as a strategy-yet. 

If anything, it might mean we are worse later on in a game. 

 

V Ross county, better passing and more confidence on the ball would have helped us gain meaningful possession and build up attacks, we simply lacked the basics early on. 

 

They also pressed high, which worked the first 30 odd minutes but in the second half they barley kicked the ball as their outlet was nullified and they tired. 

 

I like our controlled approach and the fact we get better as the game goes on, but we must do the basics right or it puts us under unnecessary pressure. 

 

 

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

42 minutes ago, karipidis said:

What a load of utter nonsense 

In your opinion 

[Jeff]

7 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

In your opinion 

 

He speaks for all of us

[gordiegords]

45 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

I'd like us to start better but not necessarily faster. 

Teams that start fast often run out of steam and struggle later on. 

If you plan to start fast we need to have the quality to get a couple of early goals, I'm not sure we are that much better than the rest of the SPFL teams to have that as a strategy-yet. 

If anything, it might mean we are worse later on in a game. 

 

V Ross county, better passing and more confidence on the ball would have helped us gain meaningful possession and build up attacks, we simply lacked the basics early on. 

 

They also pressed high, which worked the first 30 odd minutes but in the second half they barley kicked the ball as their outlet was nullified and they tired. 

 

I like our controlled approach and the fact we get better as the game goes on, but we must do the basics right or it puts us under unnecessary pressure. 

 

 

 

Fair point bazza, there’s no doubt to me who the best footballing team are, hopefully we show it. I just remember the second half in the semi they were at us all of that second half, albeit without doing much but we didn’t create hardly a thing, against 10 men.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

23 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

He speaks for all of us

You can’t speak your own mind?

[Rudolf]

2 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Someone else already agrees with me on here and folk around me at the last game also were getting a bit annoyed 

I'm pretty sure sure he didn't agree that Gordon stands and chats to a couple of defenders for a few minutes before eventually getting it out 🤣

 

 

[Halliphax]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

They also pressed high

Need a better defence against this though, we should have looked so shaky and been saved by the post (twice) just because of a high press and a few balls over the top. 

First game of the season though, hope to see a controlled first half and then an intense press the second half from Hearts on Sunday.

[Naisys Tackle]

17 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

I'm pretty sure sure he didn't agree that Gordon stands and chats to a couple of defenders for a few minutes before eventually getting it out 🤣

 

 

If anything he moans at them about their lack of movement. 

"orite Halks m8 whats for tea the nite?"

[August Landmesser]

2 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Someone else already agrees with me on here and folk around me at the last game also were getting a bit annoyed 

i bet they were!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Great news people, Rocky suspended only for one game in next years League Cup, unfortunately cant do it this year for some reason, so he can play Sunday

 

[Newton51]

 

[poultry]

[Bazzas right boot]

51 minutes ago, Halliphax said:

Need a better defence against this though, we should have looked so shaky and been saved by the post (twice) just because of a high press and a few balls over the top. 

First game of the season though, hope to see a controlled first half and then an intense press the second half from Hearts on Sunday.

 

 

Spot on. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

24 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

i bet they were!

😂😂😂

[wavydavy]

18 minutes ago, poultry said:

 

I see he has a new hair piece.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, gordiegords said:

Fair point bazza, there’s no doubt to me who the best footballing team are, hopefully we show it. I just remember the second half in the semi they were at us all of that second half, albeit without doing much but we didn’t create hardly a thing, against 10 men.

 

 

Agreed. 

I still think we lack a bit of quality in midfield in terms of transition, awareness, creativity and just general midfielding! 

 

Beni is a massive upgrade on the likes of Haring, Smith, Halliday and even Devlin. 

He's a good player, based on what I've seen of him he's arguably our best (outfield) player. 

 

Hopefully Grant can add to us along with Davenport or whoever we bring in. 

 

Get that bit quality in there and we'll control more games and create more. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

19 minutes ago, poultry said:

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, karipidis said:

What a load of utter nonsense 

 

 

He's getting to that age whee goes on and on. 

Natters away like Isa out of still game. 

 

 

[Absolute Scenes]

Plenty of roasters on .net with the usual nonsense being spouted. Many of them declaring they’ve never seen hearts dominate a derby…conveniently missing out 2012 and claiming it as a freak result…didn’t matter as they were over it as soon as they left the stadium.

 

 

please hearts, get it done so we can laugh and laugh and laugh once again at them

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Absolute Scenes said:

Plenty of roasters on .net with the usual nonsense being spouted. Many of them declaring they’ve never seen hearts dominate a derby…conveniently missing out 2012 and claiming it as a freak result…didn’t matter as they were over it as soon as they left the stadium.

 

 

please hearts, get it done so we can laugh and laugh and laugh once again at them

 

We dominated them in the 0-0 at ER and 3-1 last season. 

 

The first 0 - 0 was 50/50 and in the sf they where lucky if Sibbick does not **** up and we stay 2-0 for a bit we beat them by about 4.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Absolute Scenes]

8 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Agreed. 

I still think we lack a bit of quality in midfield in terms of transition, awareness, creativity and just general midfielding! 

 

Beni is a massive upgrade on the likes of Haring, Smith, Halliday and even Devlin. 

He's a good player, based on what I've seen of him he's arguably our best (outfield) player. 

 

Hopefully Grant can add to us along with Davenport or whoever we bring in. 

 

Get that bit quality in there and we'll control more games and create more. 

 

 

I think grant is the answer to your first paragraph. Needs to start

[Absolute Scenes]

Just now, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We dominated them in the 0-0 at ER and 3-1 last season. 

 

 

Beggars belief they manage to lock these painful memories away. 

[RDSK]

7 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We dominated them in the 0-0 at ER and 3-1 last season. 

 

The first 0 - 0 was 50/50 and in the sf they where lucky if Sibbick does not **** up and we stay 2-0 for a bit we beat them by about 4.

 

 

Agreed but in fairness to Toby we might have lost that 0-0 if it weren’t for him.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, RDSK said:

Agreed but in fairness to Toby we might have lost that 0-0 if it weren’t for him.

 

Yip, right at the end. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

18 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

I think grant is the answer to your first paragraph. Needs to start

 

Hope so. 

 

[Brick Tamland]

4 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Agree about the movement but he really needs to be quicker - and kick the ball as far up the pitch if no one near him is available 

 

too many times he chats to the 2 defenders for a few mins and eventually gets it out - probably wasting about 5 mins each game 

 

4 hours ago, Rudolf said:

You come out with some nonsense, but that takes the biscuit🤣

By a long long way

 

4 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Someone else already agrees with me on here and folk around me at the last game also were getting a bit annoyed 

Zero self awareness 

[highlandjambo3]

Not to bothered* about Sundays result, my blood pressure can’t cope with it all but you know what, as I’m getting older one thing is an absolute fact and justifies my chain of though as follows:

 

You know that some things is Scottish football don’t change, the gulf between the cheeks/standard of refereeing/SPFL competency etc………well for any of those things to change a massive tipping point needs to happen and so what’s changed at hibs to improve them? absolutely zip and, there’s nothing to suggest there will be any change anytime soon so normal service will resume, they’ll win the odd game (home or away) and revel in their new found glory but, we’ll then go on to smash them the next few games with the odd draw every now and again (which they class as a victory) as has been the “natural order” as far back as we can look…………remember, the stats don’t lie……

 

* course I’m bothered, into this shower.

FTH 

Edited August 3, 2022 by highlandjambo3

[Sooks]

Im a plus one for the Shanks and Boyce playing together gang too …………. just feels like it would work you would have to have a hard working defensive midfield and players who would feed balls through to them behind them though or Boyce would keep dropping back 

[King prawn]

Gordon

Smith Halkett Rowles Cochrane

Grant Haring

Forest Boyce McKay

Shankland

 

I don’t think it will happen though.  

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Gordon

Smith Halkett Rowles Cochrane

Grant Haring

Forest Boyce McKay

Shankland

 

I don’t think it will happen though.  

I think I would go with that except Devlin for Haring

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Agreed. 

I still think we lack a bit of quality in midfield in terms of transition, awareness, creativity and just general midfielding! 

 

Beni is a massive upgrade on the likes of Haring, Smith, Halliday and even Devlin. 

He's a good player, based on what I've seen of him he's arguably our best (outfield) player. 

 

Hopefully Grant can add to us along with Davenport or whoever we bring in. 

 

Get that bit quality in there and we'll control more games and create more. 

 

 

I think a lot of our fans have a bit of a blind spot about our midfield. Partly proven (IMO) but the fact that many think Haring is our best midfielder.

 

The problem is Haring causes most of the problems in midfield that our fans complain about. This is not to say he is a bad player but he can’t take the ball on the half turn and he can’t drive forward and buzz around the edge of the oppo box.

 

Whereas, Beni and Cammy can both do this and Grant is a more attack minded version. But these three can all take the ball in a tight space, turn and try and push forward more quickly than Haring.

 

Not to say that I think Haring is a bad player or needs dropped but I think our fans need to realise that he slows down our play and less and less now (each season) does he control midfield.

 

I loved Haring when he joined but I genuinely don’t understand why so many people think he is our best midfielder - it must partly be down to the fact that our best two midfielders have in fact been getting hired a lot last year and our 3rd best midfielder has only just joined.

 

But to me, Haring is 4th choice.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Gorgierools]

40 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I think I would go with that except Devlin for Haring

Agreed. That's a team that should absolutely Skelp Hubz

Edited August 3, 2022 by Gorgierools
Spelling

[Sooks]

Just now, Gorgierools said:

Agreed. That's a team that should absolutely Skelp Hubz

Just think his energy positioning tackling and attitude would compliment Grants skill and awareness for the right pass and danger from distance 

[CMc]

21 hours ago, NB GIN said:

If we go 343 we are not winning this 

 

4231 

 

gordon 

smith halkett Kingsley Cochrane 

      Devlin grant 

Forrest Boyce Mackay 

     Shanks 

so if we swap Boyce for Rowles the above becomes a losing team?

[CMc]

9 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Maybe 

 

But in a 4 Smith being more defensive let's Kingsley go forward on the other side a bit more. 

Aki in a back 4 is a bit wasted, he's better going forward and not as good a defender as Smith. 

Playing Kingsley and Aki exposes a back 2 far too much and Aki is imo a rwb, not a fb. 

 

I'd be suprised if we played 2 at the back with Kingsley and Aki as the full backs, we'd be asking to get picked off imo. 

Unless we play Haring as the anchor man, but even then we'd be very narrow and still exposed down the sides like v RC, maybe more so. 

 

IMO In a back 4 Smith for me, in a back 3 Aki. 

 

 

 

Smith’s positioning, off the ball runs and leadership from RB were part of what turned the game on Saturday. 
(Along with possibly him not slowing things down in midfield TBF). 
 

He was way better than Nat in the 343 last game. (Was Atkinson carrying a knock?). 

[CMc]

8 hours ago, TheBigO said:

I think I'd like to see that from time to time, defintiely.  Hope it isn't a Shanks OR Boycie type scenario.  Perhaps it is at the moment as they're our only CFs, so we kind of need to have one on the bench to cover the other.  But going forward (in both senses) Boycie is such a good player and hard worker, I'd like to see him in the 10 role or up top with Shanks from time to time.

 

It's bandied around on here so so much but I just can't see past 4231 being best to fit our best players in their best positions.  Can't argue with the success rate of 343  of course, so no complaints, I just think it could do us a favour.  Only issue which is slight is Cochrane is on good form and a cracking player and I think he's the one to lose out in a 4231 if all fit.  That's a strong bench though

It looked to me like Forrest went up top when Boyce came on on Saturday - or at least they were rotating. 
 

I think the front three or four will be fluid in either formation. 
 

Either way, don’t see it as being as simple as Boyce or Shanks. 

[CMc]

1 hour ago, King prawn said:

Gordon

Smith Halkett Rowles Cochrane

Grant Haring

Forest Boyce McKay

Shankland

 

I don’t think it will happen though.  

That’s our best available XI if Cam is not fit and there are any worries about Kingsley. 
 

I would feel much better with a fit Devlin in the engine room. 
 

Would not cry if Boyce started ahead of Shanks or Forrest to ensure plenty of dig in the first phase of the game in the 343 either. 

[Horatio Caine]

33 minutes ago, CMc said:

Smith’s positioning, off the ball runs and leadership from RB were part of what turned the game on Saturday. 
(Along with possibly him not slowing things down in midfield TBF). 
 

He was way better than Nat in the 343 last game. (Was Atkinson carrying a knock?). 

Apparently Nat had been unwell during the week and felt he could play on Saturday but then discovered he wasn't sufficiently over whatever it had been.