Gundermann Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Yeah. Remind people about Brexit. Will Starmer flip over again and oppose Brexit?
jack D and coke Posted October 20, 2023 Posted October 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Gundermann said: Will Starmer flip over again and oppose Brexit? Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone flip flop more than Keith. Backtracking like a mofo on his comments about Israel the other day. Just keeps getting away with it too. This must bite him on the arse at some point…
redjambo Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 4 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Sigh. I know. I know. If only our politicians had some conviction. For another thread and I know the FM has a shitload of failings but I admire him for saying what he believes with the crisis in the middle East. Most of us are too close to the domestic failings to cut him slack but respectable commentators down south see it. Ed Davie would benefit from sticking his neck out IMO. He has nowt to lose. Indeed.
ri Alban Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, redjambo said: The Lib Dems took a hammering after Jo Swinson came out vocally in favour of rejoining the EU. They're not going to make the same mistake again, and Davey now deflects when asked about it, saying that it is a "long term thing". They need those Leave-oriented Tory voters to vote for them, and are well aware which side their bread is buttered on. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ed-davey-lib-dem-brexit-eu-b2417991.html Negotiations to rejoin. Will they be easy or difficult? Would the UK get what they lost? The only reason Labour won't commit to a new euref is it will open the door for Scotref/Indyref2. Edited October 21, 2023 by ri Alban
ƒιѕнρℓαρѕ Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Negotiations to rejoin. Will they be easy or difficult? Would the UK get what they lost? The only reason Labour won't commit to a new euref is it will open the door for Scotref/Indyref2. Not. A. Chance. The UK lost a massive amount of credibility and influence, not just in leaving the EU, but also in the flailingly incompetent, dumb, short sighted, self harming way we did it. We haven't even fully done it yet! Our former EU partners must see us as a nation of screechbot arseholes.
i wish jj was my dad Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said: Not. A. Chance. The UK lost a massive amount of credibility and influence, not just in leaving the EU, but also in the flailingly incompetent, dumb, short sighted, self harming way we did it. We haven't even fully done it yet! Our former EU partners must see us as a nation of screechbot arseholes. And they would be correct in their view. We get what we deserve.
Gundermann Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) More discontent within Labour about the skewed pro-Israel stance of Starmer. Kudos to those asserting their democracy within what used to be a left-of-centre party of internationalism, but this will probably just be another opportunity for Kid Starver to 'act tough' and gain yet more brownie points from Rupert Murdoch, the Daily Mail, Conservative voters and big business. https://www.thenational.scot/news/23870709.six-labour-officials-edinburgh-step-partys-gaza-stance/?fbclid=IwAR1aT3bFIWrTx7c2ruSIribKGZk_OlOM79J9YscGtT_kUDGjZMzcZR-zo4k Also: Quote KEIR Starmer's determination to "steamroll over Scottish democracy" must be resisted by Labour members, governing voices in the party have warned. Writing in the Scottish Left Review, Lauren Harper, a member of Labour's Scottish Executive Committee (SEC), questioned what the "point" of the party is under Starmer - and urged members to speak out against the leadership's approach to an array of policy issues. Meanwhile a former chair of Scottish Labour warned that Starmer is offering "no change" from the current constitutional set-up of the UK, describing this as a "gift to the SNP". Labour must also take devolved issues more seriously and create policy to stop Westminster being able to overrule the Scottish Parliament, they warned. https://www.inkl.com/news/senior-labour-figures-speak-out-as-starmer-steamrolls-scottish-democracy Edited October 21, 2023 by Gundermann
ri Alban Posted October 21, 2023 Posted October 21, 2023 7 hours ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said: Not. A. Chance. The UK lost a massive amount of credibility and influence, not just in leaving the EU, but also in the flailingly incompetent, dumb, short sighted, self harming way we did it. We haven't even fully done it yet! Our former EU partners must see us as a nation of screechbot arseholes. Although, the UK did bring a lot to the party. 6 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said: And they would be correct in their view. We get what we deserve.
Gundermann Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 Starmer getting some heat for backing Israeli warcrimes. Not like a right-wing Labour leader to get it wrong on illegal military action...
The Mighty Thor Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Gundermann said: Starmer getting some heat for backing Israeli warcrimes. Not like a right-wing Labour leader to get it wrong on illegal military action...
Gundermann Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 Apparently she stole the Tory manifesto, word for word.
Ulysses Posted October 27, 2023 Author Posted October 27, 2023 Here's something that's waaaay more shit - literally. Thanks to the Tories, England is reducing its standards of water monitoring to below the EU standards. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/27/england-to-diverge-from-eu-water-monitoring-standards?ref=biztoc.com Gosh, I wonder which mates of the Conservatives will make money from this?
ri Alban Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 They have another year to take, take, take. Crooks. Hopefully Labour are better.
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 3 hours ago, Ulysses said: Here's something that's waaaay more shit - literally. Thanks to the Tories, England is reducing its standards of water monitoring to below the EU standards. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/27/england-to-diverge-from-eu-water-monitoring-standards?ref=biztoc.com Gosh, I wonder which mates of the Conservatives will make money from this? Taking back control. Utter filth and their water is probably just as bad.
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 28, 2023 Posted October 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Here's a sneak preview, with his views on innocent children in Gaza:
The Mighty Thor Posted October 28, 2023 Posted October 28, 2023 In other words put Keith on the spot with direct questions and no script to read from and he falls apart. Utter charlatan.
Gundermann Posted October 28, 2023 Posted October 28, 2023 8 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Misrepresentation... He's another red Tory wnking himself crazy over warcrimes.
ri Alban Posted October 28, 2023 Posted October 28, 2023 Starmer's puppetmasters have telt him"If you want power, you are pro Israel" He saw/seen what they did to Corbyn.
ri Alban Posted October 28, 2023 Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) Five years of labour, then it's party time up here. Tick Tock, your government thanks you for your efforts. 👍 Edited October 28, 2023 by ri Alban
TallPaul Posted October 29, 2023 Posted October 29, 2023 14 hours ago, ri Alban said: Quite a few filthy Huns skulking about here, spouting the treacherous Unionist Hoose Jockery. Spineless Pigs! You need help
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 29, 2023 Posted October 29, 2023 14 hours ago, ri Alban said: Quite a few filthy Huns skulking about here, spouting the treacherous Unionist Hoose Jockery. Spineless Pigs!
Victorian Posted October 29, 2023 Posted October 29, 2023 It's not rocket science. The Tories knew all too well that there was a possible political advantage to be gained. They knew that Labour figures would be naturally inclined to oppose Israeli actions that kills Palestinians. The best way to take advantage was to tie in the official Labour policy as being alligned with the government's policy, and watch the fractures open up in Labour. Labour's task is to welcome all views from Labour MPs and allow the narrative to evolve towards a more widespread belief that hostilities must end. Don't allow opportunistic vultures to exploit one situation to benefit themselves in another, wholly unrelated situation.
Gundermann Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 Labour losing voters over pro-Israel stance. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/30/keir-starmer-labour-israel-gaza
Gundermann Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 More spinelessness from Starmer. Andy McDonald: Labour suspends MP after speech at pro-Palestinian rally https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67268154
vegas-voss Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 Labour are going to end up imploding aren't they and we are going to end up stuck with these Tory ***** for another 5 years at least.
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: Labour are going to end up imploding aren't they and we are going to end up stuck with these Tory ***** for another 5 years at least. Yes they are hibsd in it ! Wait till the “culture wars “ really accelerate when the election campaign is in earnest ! Then it’ll def go even more pear shaped for them . Silly buggers really
Roxy Hearts Posted October 30, 2023 Posted October 30, 2023 55 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: Labour are going to end up imploding aren't they and we are going to end up stuck with these Tory ***** for another 5 years at least. Cannae wait!
Victorian Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 There isn't going to be a ceasefire so some Labour MPs had better wake up to the realities of politics. If they think they should be in government for the benefit of people of this country then they better arrange themselves behind a realistic official position on Palestine. An emphasis on humanitarian aid in the shorter term and a campaign for the medium to longer term homing of refugees. Put the Palestinian people ahead of unrealistic ideological principles that cannot achieve anything anyway. Allowing this issue to derail the acquisition of government does not help the Palestinians or people in the UK.
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Victorian said: There isn't going to be a ceasefire so some Labour MPs had better wake up to the realities of politics. If they think they should be in government for the benefit of people of this country then they better arrange themselves behind a realistic official position on Palestine. An emphasis on humanitarian aid in the shorter term and a campaign for the medium to longer term homing of refugees. Put the Palestinian people ahead of unrealistic ideological principles that cannot achieve anything anyway. Allowing this issue to derail the acquisition of government does not help the Palestinians or people in the UK. But it looks like they are allowing it to derail it and for sure the media will start running with it more and more and start twisting it as well.
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: But it looks like they are allowing it to derail it and for sure the media will start running with it more and more and start twisting it as well. Yep
Victorian Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: But it looks like they are allowing it to derail it and for sure the media will start running with it more and more and start twisting it as well. That's why you formulate a sensible and plausible position and get everyone in behind it. Starmer is going to reiterate the position today. The mad thing is that there's nobody else's official position is a ceasefire. Not yet. Not the government, the US or the EU. Everybody else is focusing on humanitarian aid. Insisting on an unrealistic ceasefire that will not happen in any circumstances will achieve nothing until an international groundswell begins to appear, if it ever does. Taking an isolated position here is particularly naive. Let the government paint itself into a corner with it's zero sum game position. The smart thing is to adopt a nuanced position that provides an ability to evolve. Edited October 31, 2023 by Victorian
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 18 minutes ago, Victorian said: That's why you formulate a sensible and plausible position and get everyone in behind it. Starmer is going to reiterate the position today. The mad thing is that there's nobody else's official position is a ceasefire. Not yet. Not the government, the US or the EU. Everybody else is focusing on humanitarian aid. Insisting on an unrealistic ceasefire that will not happen in any circumstances will achieve nothing until an international groundswell begins to appear, if it ever does. Taking an isolated position here is particularly naive. Let the government paint itself into a corner with it's zero sum game position. The smart thing is to adopt a nuanced position that provides an ability to evolve. Is he going to be speaking today ?
Mikey1874 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: Is he going to be speaking today ?
Mikey1874 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 Full speech https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-on-the-international-situation-in-the-middle-east/
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) If she is right and neither have said they will stick to a ceasefire then what more can they do ? Edited October 31, 2023 by vegas-voss
Victorian Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 Perfectly positioned stance. Focus on the right to self defence and on humanitarian aid. With plenty of scope to evolve into a ceasefire as the situation develops.
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Full speech https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-speech-on-the-international-situation-in-the-middle-east/ Look I agree with a lot of what he says but what I don't see is the difference Hamas attacks but Israel are not.Launching missiles and bombs at each other one with far better arsenal is not one attacking and one defending just condemn both but I understand that won't wash on the political world stage he wants to be on soon.
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Victorian said: Perfectly positioned stance. Focus on the right to self defence and on humanitarian aid. With plenty of scope to evolve into a ceasefire as the situation develops. Come on it's gone far beyond self defence I'm sure you have even said so yourself on here at some point ( haven't fact checked ) it's attack now full scale attack.I agree with a lot of what he has said though.
manaliveits105 Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 Keith has said f all of any use basically as usual
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Keith has said f all of any use basically as usual And what has your beloved party said of late on the matter that has been of any use apart from stoking violence on these shores ?
vegas-voss Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 Has there been any Hamas rocket that have hit Israel lately ? My point is they can defend their people from Hamas rockets as they have the tech.Hamas don't give a **** about protecting their people and innocents are dying.
Victorian Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: Come on it's gone far beyond self defence I'm sure you have even said so yourself on here at some point ( haven't fact checked ) it's attack now full scale attack.I agree with a lot of what he has said though. It has and hasn't. They're not exactly doing all they can to avoid innocent lives being lost but their overall offensive is still technically aimed at self defence. All countries have a right to self defence. It's up to everyone on the world stage to try to persuade them to do things differently. But crucially, there has to be a much bigger push towards humanitarian considerations.
jack D and coke Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 Did I hear wee Anus calling for a ceasefire? He’ll be in trouble with his bosses down south for that. If Starmer can mind his name that is.
Roxy Hearts Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: Did I hear wee Anus calling for a ceasefire? He’ll be in trouble with his bosses down south for that. If Starmer can mind his name that is. He'll be in trouble on here! Ideas above his station are not to be tolerated. Just ask any of our resident, hypocritical unionists.
The Mighty Thor Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: Did I hear wee Anus calling for a ceasefire? He’ll be in trouble with his bosses down south for that. If Starmer can mind his name that is. Different Party mate. Scottish Labour is definitely not just a branch office. Amirite? Wee Anus is his own man
i wish jj was my dad Posted November 1, 2023 Posted November 1, 2023 12 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Different Party mate. Scottish Labour is definitely not just a branch office. Amirite? Wee Anus is his own man Regardless, why is he grandstanding about an international issue that is beyond the power of Holyrood? Scottish politicians shouldn't care about these issues.
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 1, 2023 Posted November 1, 2023 15 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said: He'll be in trouble on here! Ideas above his station are not to be tolerated. Just ask any of our resident, hypocritical unionists. You’re thinking of the SNP mate . Any dissent from the party Line is crushed . Wake up.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now