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Hearts in the NFT space


Masonic

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Clark Griswold
2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

NFTs aren't for me, but each to their own. I'm not going to pass judgement on how anyone chooses to spend their own money.

 

From a Hearts point of view, I'd rather the club stayed away from it, for the simple reason that it could divert money away from FOH.  In a way, putting cash into FOH is similar to NFTs, as it's kind of non-tangible.  We know that we own the club, but only because of the digital proof of our direct debits.

 

FOH is a substantial, regular, tax-free source of income for Hearts, but to thrive in the longer term it will need to keep attracting new, younger members.  I'd feel more confident about its future if potential new members didn't have the alternative distraction of volatile NFTs to purchase instead.

Great post and Couldn’t have put it better myself. My sentiments on the subject also. 

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Unknown user
10 hours ago, Swanyl said:

Metaverse is the funniest thing in the world.   Facebook twats spending fortunes on shit that's been about since June 23, 2003 the date Second Life was launched.   Are big companies still wasting money on building second life shit?  thought not.

My old mate from school runs a tech company, he's been trying to sell me on this pish for over a year.

I've tried to warn him it's just another augmented reality bubble (remember Aurasma?) but he's convinced it translates to every day life.

 

For people who have money to burn and who spend their entire lives in front of a computer I can see why it seems to make sense, but most of us want our limited supply of fun tokens to go toward things that bring value. 

 

 

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Watt-Zeefuik

Just to nerd out for a moment, specifically about NFTs and Hearts—these are touted as a money-making opportunity for the club, or for fans, or what not. Okay, grand.

 

But where is the value being produced that the NFTs make available? If NFTs facilitated existing exchanges between parties or made new value propositions possible on either end, that would be one thing. But again, there's no gaping problem that the NFTs actually solve. Apple Wallet or the Google equivalent handle electronic season tickets perfectly well using standard, non-blockchain cryptography. Single game tickets can be passed around electronically just by passing around a QR or bar code image—yes, there's some chance someone could swipe your ticket that way, but behold all of the people who've had NFTs or other crypto assets stolen using blockchain "smart wallet" trojan code attacks.

 

So there's no real proposition of value being created by facilitating exchanges, the way actual currencies create value.

 

Ah, but what about all the money spun up by Bitcoin? What if you mint an NFT and then sell it later? That surely has profit?

 

In this case, then, you're talking about a boutique equity. The token doesn't change anything, but the perceived value that it has amongst a community of collectors. Because they're non-fungible and therefore one of a kind, the value on them should go up, right? Just like an original Van Gogh?

 

Except that the presumption is there's a nearly neverending stream of people who want to spend time looking at a Van Gogh. The Van Gogh produces value because it's pleasant to look at for billions of people. A video of Ozturk's screamer at Easter Road is pleasant to look at for Hearts fans, but there's a far smaller number of us, and we can already see the video. "Yes, but can you say you OWN a token of the Ozturk screamer?" Well, no, but why should I care? "Well, it's a collector's item, and you can sell it!" But to whom? Who's going to buy it?

 

The answer is other Hearts fans. The NFT of an Ozturk screamer has potential value to Hearts fans, and there's a few hundred thousand of us, and we have a finite amount of money, most of which goes to things that have nothing to do with Hearts. The only monetary "value" that a Hearts NFT gives you access to is the money of other Hearts fans. The net is zero sum—if you make money on it, someone else lost money, because the NFT itself doesn't produce value, it just holds virtual space as a token.

 

I daresay if the point is to get money out of the pockets of Hearts fans and into the coffers of the club, there are much simpler ways of doing that.

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Watt-Zeefuik
18 hours ago, Smithee said:

My old mate from school runs a tech company, he's been trying to sell me on this pish for over a year.

I've tried to warn him it's just another augmented reality bubble (remember Aurasma?) but he's convinced it translates to every day life.

 

For people who have money to burn and who spend their entire lives in front of a computer I can see why it seems to make sense, but most of us want our limited supply of fun tokens to go toward things that bring value. 

 

 

 

I had a colleague in architecture grad school who did her work on the architecture of computer games. It was a really cool project to think about, but one of the things she really worked out was that far too many computer game people think that the process is about creating a gigantic virtual world that can be an immense playground, when what people really respond to in video games is how they interact with it and with other people, down to the music, the narrative, the cutscenes, the storytelling, the kinesthetic action of working the controller, and so on. It's why people thought No Man's Sky was going to totally transform gaming with it's effectively infinite universe, and when it finally came out people found kind of cool for an hour or two but on the whole pretty boring.

 

The "metaverse" stuff isn't even a new mistake. It's the same damn mistake people keep making over and over again . . .

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4 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

Just to nerd out for a moment, specifically about NFTs and Hearts—these are touted as a money-making opportunity for the club, or for fans, or what not. Okay, grand.

 

But where is the value being produced that the NFTs make available? If NFTs facilitated existing exchanges between parties or made new value propositions possible on either end, that would be one thing. But again, there's no gaping problem that the NFTs actually solve. Apple Wallet or the Google equivalent handle electronic season tickets perfectly well using standard, non-blockchain cryptography. Single game tickets can be passed around electronically just by passing around a QR or bar code image—yes, there's some chance someone could swipe your ticket that way, but behold all of the people who've had NFTs or other crypto assets stolen using blockchain "smart wallet" trojan code attacks.

 

So there's no real proposition of value being created by facilitating exchanges, the way actual currencies create value.

 

Ah, but what about all the money spun up by Bitcoin? What if you mint an NFT and then sell it later? That surely has profit?

 

In this case, then, you're talking about a boutique equity. The token doesn't change anything, but the perceived value that it has amongst a community of collectors. Because they're non-fungible and therefore one of a kind, the value on them should go up, right? Just like an original Van Gogh?

 

Except that the presumption is there's a nearly neverending stream of people who want to spend time looking at a Van Gogh. The Van Gogh produces value because it's pleasant to look at for billions of people. A video of Ozturk's screamer at Easter Road is pleasant to look at for Hearts fans, but there's a far smaller number of us, and we can already see the video. "Yes, but can you say you OWN a token of the Ozturk screamer?" Well, no, but why should I care? "Well, it's a collector's item, and you can sell it!" But to whom? Who's going to buy it?

 

The answer is other Hearts fans. The NFT of an Ozturk screamer has potential value to Hearts fans, and there's a few hundred thousand of us, and we have a finite amount of money, most of which goes to things that have nothing to do with Hearts. The only monetary "value" that a Hearts NFT gives you access to is the money of other Hearts fans. The net is zero sum—if you make money on it, someone else lost money, because the NFT itself doesn't produce value, it just holds virtual space as a token.

 

I daresay if the point is to get money out of the pockets of Hearts fans and into the coffers of the club, there are much simpler ways of doing that.


The biggest and most successful of these collectible NFT platforms make money by having rare tokens that you are more likely to attain by using real money to buy resources …………. it will no doubt be possible to play and collect without spending real money but in order to get the very best NFTs you will need lots of resources to increase your chances of acquiring them and that is where the real money will start filtering in

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Watt-Zeefuik
9 hours ago, Sooks said:


The biggest and most successful of these collectible NFT platforms make money by having rare tokens that you are more likely to attain by using real money to buy resources …………. it will no doubt be possible to play and collect without spending real money but in order to get the very best NFTs you will need lots of resources to increase your chances of acquiring them and that is where the real money will start filtering in

 

But again, that already exists? Your standard online card/collectable "play for free!" games offer free chances that theoretically might result in you drawing a super-rare and powerful "card" or whatever, but to up that chance you can always put in real cash. Once again, the system already works perfectly fine when managed by "fiat" tokens that the company producing the game controls the scarcity of. What is the NFT adding here?

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7 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

But again, that already exists? Your standard online card/collectable "play for free!" games offer free chances that theoretically might result in you drawing a super-rare and powerful "card" or whatever, but to up that chance you can always put in real cash. Once again, the system already works perfectly fine when managed by "fiat" tokens that the company producing the game controls the scarcity of. What is the NFT adding here?


Oh Im not promoting it I am just saying that is how they make money

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hughesie27

NFT space is dead. Its not a scam though. Nobody is promised profit. If you buy into it without knowing what it's about that's on you.

 

The value of it is found by the market. The market current values them pretty low, along with many other aspects of economy.

If I own a book of Hearts autographs it's value is determined by the highest bidder. Same with a unique NFT.

 

I personally don't want to own a digital autograph so have no interest in Hearts starting something like that but if others do and are prepared to be the highest bidder for it then its a fair market. 

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Watt-Zeefuik
2 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

NFT space is dead. Its not a scam though. Nobody is promised profit. If you buy into it without knowing what it's about that's on you.

 

The value of it is found by the market. The market current values them pretty low, along with many other aspects of economy.

If I own a book of Hearts autographs it's value is determined by the highest bidder. Same with a unique NFT.

 

I personally don't want to own a digital autograph so have no interest in Hearts starting something like that but if others do and are prepared to be the highest bidder for it then its a fair market. 

 

If folk enjoy the idea of an NFT, as long as they fully understand what's being sold to them (and how to protect it from the rather numerous ways of stealing them through hacks), my only complaint is about the wasted energy in minting and transferring them, and that can be minimized at least.

 

It's both people getting lured into buying them thinking they're some kind of investment or thinking they've bought real intellectual property that I object to. NFTs aren't scams in and of themselves, but there's a shocking number of scams built around NFTs.

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hughesie27
16 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

If folk enjoy the idea of an NFT, as long as they fully understand what's being sold to them (and how to protect it from the rather numerous ways of stealing them through hacks), my only complaint is about the wasted energy in minting and transferring them, and that can be minimized at least.

 

It's both people getting lured into buying them thinking they're some kind of investment or thinking they've bought real intellectual property that I object to. NFTs aren't scams in and of themselves, but there's a shocking number of scams built around NFTs.

Can't disagree with any of that. 

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FarmerTweedy
On 30/06/2022 at 04:33, That thing you do said:

Basically utility means what the NFT can be created to do. So simple example, Bannockburn.

 

We call NFTs "Living Souvenirs"

 

I go to the museum and am particularly interested in armour.

 

In most peoples mind if I can get an nft of a suit of armour, then i have that image and not alot else, but thats not the case.

 

With my armour NFT

 

- i can have it rendered as wearable in multiple games/online worlds for my avatar

- i can be given personalised UX around extra content

- the nft can be set to also represent a ticket to a virtual event, making interaction before, during and after a real world visit.

- on chain metrics can be used to identify holders and create for examples offers to go to a real life battle reenactment because i hold the nft.

- crafting. Simple example, i hold a hammer and anvil nft this can be recognised and crafted into "Blacksmith Shop" . So you can gamify and reward/incentivise crafting

- ours are created on a carbon negative network.

 

NFTs are immutable on the blockchain so we are (for example) working with distillers to authenticate whisky and in Mexico certify tour guides through NFT and Metadata.

 

NFT season ticket:

 

Advantages- can be temporarily rented using smart contracts, so if im away my cousin can use it. This of course is transferred for a fee to the club.

 

Reduced costs vs plastic cards. Our NFTs cost about 8p raw price to make

 

Provides passive income to the fans

 

Opportunity for rewards, offers, content dropped to your season ticket address.

 

Airdrop key match moments to keep as a souvenir. Add to own digital gallery, samsung phone for a personalised highlights collection.

 

Gamify- rewards for going to each away ground

 

Community activities

 

Courses in innovation centre. Weve work with schools elsewhere in Scotland.

 

Link your season ticket to samsung health and STEPN or similar that rewards you for exercise. Literally get paid to walk to the ground .

 

Sxratching the surface here but its all doable now.

 

 

 

 

Hardly anything you've listed there re season tickets is anything to do with NFTs. It could pretty much all be done no problem without NFTs.

 

And can you explain how having NFT season tickets provides passive income to fans?

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**** crypto & NFTs. Absolutely delighted to see this ponzi scheme market going down the shitter

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These NFTs have so many amazing applications. Same old story.

 

“First you make people believe they have a problem, and then you sell them the solution. That's how advertising works. Every snake oil salesman knows that.”

 

 

SnakeOil.jpg

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Screenshot_20220704-223856_Google.jpg

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27 minutes ago, Masonic said:

 

Neither of these things need NFTs to do what they're trying to do.

 

The Coca-Cola one is nothing more than dipping their toes in the water under the guide of donating to charity, to do a bit of market research into their chances of getting away with it on a larger scale.  They could just donate money directly to the charity without the whole NFT nonsense, or they could launch an NFT series without tying it into the charity, but they know they will get away with it with a lot less cynicism if they do it this way...


Similarly, VSR do not need to use NFTs to verify anything, this can be done in much easier ways.  You can include certificates of authenticity without needing to back it onto an NFT.  The clue is hidden in the article:

"Apart from the car parts, VSR is also looking to expand the NFT certification program to official merchandise and its other products as well."

 

They will expand it right into whatever makes them the most money.  It won't be long before the "certificates" become additional products that can be purchased.  First, you get the ball rolling, and once it's up and running, you expand the market.  VSR know that the target audience for Lamborghinis are rich 20-40 year olds with far too much money, and who are most likely to get into the NFT game?  Bingo.

 

It's always just a money grab, pure and simple.

Edited by tian447
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Unknown user
1 minute ago, Masonic said:

https://forkast.news/headlines/psg-nft-tickets-first-japan-tour-27-years/

 

Paris Saint-Germain F.C. (PSG), the winning football club of the French Ligue 1, is selling non-fungible token (NFT) tickets worth 30 million yen (about US$218,817) each for its friendly matches this month with local teams in Japan.

 

I don't see anything in that which suggests NFTs are bringing anything to the party.

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Kalamazoo Jambo
4 minutes ago, Masonic said:

https://forkast.news/headlines/psg-nft-tickets-first-japan-tour-27-years/

 

Paris Saint-Germain F.C. (PSG), the winning football club of the French Ligue 1, is selling non-fungible token (NFT) tickets worth 30 million yen (about US$218,817) each for its friendly matches this month with local teams in Japan.


You do realize the value is in partying with Messi et al, not the NFT part, right?

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5 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:


You do realize the value is in partying with Messi et al, not the NFT part, right?


Why not just sell tickets then instead of NFTs? 

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Kalamazoo Jambo
2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:


Why not just sell tickets then instead of NFTs? 


Because PSG think they can gouge a little extra from fans that way, I guess. It’s still a ticket.

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10 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:


You do realize the value is in partying with Messi et al, not the NFT part, right?

 

what about partying with kingsley and gordon?

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11 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:


Because PSG think they can gouge a little extra from fans that way, I guess. It’s still a ticket.

Based on some kind of resale value or something? Or just hoping to get some young rich kids? I know I’m asking you but you’ll have as much insider knowledge here as I do 😂
 

NFTs are a concept that I have to say, I’ve spent a lot of time trying to understand yet just cannot wrap my head round. I just don’t see the utility that comes with them at all. 

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Kalamazoo Jambo
3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Based on some kind of resale value or something? Or just hoping to get some young rich kids? I know I’m asking you but you’ll have as much insider knowledge here as I do 😂
 

NFTs are a concept that I have to say, I’ve spent a lot of time trying to understand yet just cannot wrap my head round. I just don’t see the utility that comes with them at all. 


Some people have so much that they can spend this kind of money without blinking.

 

Previous posts on this thread about the greater fool theory, tulip bubble etc pretty much sum things up for me. I wouldn’t touch NFTs with a bargepole.

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  • 3 months later...
6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I made trillions trading bitcoin , I was sceptical at first but the results speak for them selfs

 

Get in the ****ing bin 

 

Yep, along with the metaverse

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2 hours ago, indianajones said:

There is a lot of shite about these days and this one sure is up there in the shite ranks. 

Spot on, a lot of drivel.

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4 hours ago, Smithee said:

Less than 4 months later...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-28/nft-volumes-tumble-97-from-2022-highs-as-frenzy-fades-chart?sref=aPhxMSeh

 

January saw $18 billion of NFT trading.

 

Last month, less than half a billion.

 

Shocked I tells ya!

Who could have foreseen…

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On 29/10/2022 at 12:41, Smithee said:

I don't really know it, but isn't it pretty much fantasy football?

Yeah mate. It is a bit pay to win now though. Worth having a look at it. 

 

I put about £500 back in January / February time and made around £25 a week for the first 4 months. 

 

Haven’t done it much this season but going to get back into it and will buy all the Hearts players 

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