Unknown user Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said: Lots of people very ignorant about NFT's though. They have much more of a function than silly jpeg apes on the internet. I'd like to think I've looked into it more than most and I think they're a ****ing nonsense myself, but what further function do they have that warrants asking money for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 26 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said: I like the idea of being able to buy / collect programmes or something similar in nft form The thing is, you wouldn't own the programme. Anyone else could have it, but you would own the receipt to say you own the NFT of it. It doesn't stop distribution, and it doesn't stop other people having it, and ultimately you don't own anything, not even the original digital programme. "The ownership of an NFT as defined by the blockchain has no inherent legal meaning, and does not necessarily grant copyright, intellectual property rights, or other legal rights over its associated digital file. An NFT does not restrict the sharing or copying of its associated digital file, and does not prevent the creation of NFTs that reference identical files." You'd be better off buying and keeping an actual programme, rather than a digital bit of paper which says you own the NFT of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret the Hitman Hearts Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 NFTs are pointless and shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 14 hours ago, kila said: Who gets the same excitement over owning an NFT as they do from owning an original Picasso painting? At least with a painting you'd hang it up and get use out of it. Others may be intrigued by an original Picasso painting. What do you get out of an NFT exactly? Apart from a feeling of buyer's remorse I'd guess. You'll have to ask someone that owns an NFT to answer that. I suspect what they get out of it though is: - A potentially lucrative investment - Being able to say you actually own a digital asset (regardless of whether you can physically hang it on the wall or not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 14 hours ago, Swanyl said: is it ****, anyone can create an NFT of your digital asset and then you create one after, who owns it? its your asset but someone created an NFT of it before you? Its a shite digital receipt in a very inefficient distributed database that means nothing. I suggest you do a bit more research. There is a reason so many people and companies are getting involved in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 hours ago, tian447 said: No, that's circular logic, and that seems to be the cornerstone of NFTs to get people to buy in. An original Picasso can be dated and validated, and it is easy to spot a fake. If I started printing my own ones and claiming they were originals, I would very quickly be found out, but if I started ripping off NFTs, or making slight changes, it wouldn't matter because I have said they are original; plus, since you don't actually own the design or the art itself, only the receipt which says you own the NFT, it doesn't matter if the original artwork is hooky. I asked a straight forward question: who defines the original NFT, and you couldn't give me an answer. Mainly because, the only person who defines it is whoever has set up the selling of that particular "asset", and again, like I said, there is nothing to stop multiple people "owning" the same asset if different people are selling it. You will own your NFT, and someone else will own another, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a load of crap. The NFT is the proof/validation. It is a bit of a code and there are tools available to translate that code into something more readable that proves you own the asset. If you stright out copied another digital asset, then you would not be the original creator and that would be copyright. If you made a few changes to an exisiting digital asset and tried to sell it, then that would now be a different digital asset (not the original). I assume there are similar copyright laws in place for digital assets just like there are for traditional art or music so you can't just make the slightest of adjustments and then claim its yours/new. I answered your original question. The NFT is the proof that it is the original. If you mean how do you know that the digital asset has not been created before by someone else (and you haven't just bought a replica) then you should carry out the equivalent sorts of checks and due diligence like you would for a painting eg. check their social media profiles to see if it does in fact confirm they are the creators of the asset, you can do a reverse Google image search, does the same asset exist on several platforms, have they released any other assets etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 5 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said: Not something I'd want Hearts to get into as there's just no appetite for it, yet. Lots of people very ignorant about NFT's though. They have much more of a function than silly jpeg apes on the internet. I am very much in the same boat. I don't think it is something Hearts should get into quite yet, but it's worth discussing. And by discussing I mean not dismissing it immediately because you can't be arsed doing enough research into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 27 minutes ago, saxondale said: I suggest you do a bit more research. There is a reason so many people and companies are getting involved in this. To make money It's the latest ponzi scheme. Pump and dump, and leave someone else holding the bag. If you think you can exploit it, and get out of it on a positive bank balance, then all power to you, but it is not going to happen for everyone else and the people who are likely to make a loss on it are those that don't understand it and/or are easily exploited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 minute ago, saxondale said: I am very much in the same boat. I don't think it is something Hearts should get into quite yet, but it's worth discussing. And by discussing I mean not dismissing it immediately because you can't be arsed doing enough research into it. That's quite patronising, I'd say I've looked into it more than most but I'm dismissing it immediately. What I'm seeing is a scam, a new industry trying to convince people that something specifically designed to have no value, has value. Now I can see the value of recording on the blockchain that a transaction has been completed, and also of referring to it to prove ownership. But that's incidental to the actual asset being bought and sold. There isn't any inherent value in that line of code that proves ownership. We've had utility tokens for years, NFTs bring nothing to the party for me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 14 minutes ago, saxondale said: The NFT is the proof that it is the original. If you mean how do you know that the digital asset has not been created before by someone else (and you haven't just bought a replica) then you should carry out the equivalent sorts of checks and due diligence like you would for a painting eg. check their social media profiles to see if it does in fact confirm they are the creators of the asset, you can do a reverse Google image search, does the same asset exist on several platforms, have they released any other assets etc etc. No, it isn't! The NFT can be made by absolutely anybody, they don't even need to be the original creator of whatever the NFT is related to. That's what I'm getting at. Again, that company selling colour NFTs. Did they go and make all the colours, aye? Of course they didn't, they're just selling digital bits of paper that say you own their NFT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 So...what are we as a club potentially selling here if we were to pursue this? What might i be buying into? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 38 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: So...what are we as a club potentially selling here if we were to pursue this? What might i be buying into? Season Ticket NFTs. You won't be able to actually use it to go to a match, own it, or even look at or touch it. But you'll be the proud owner of an entry on the blockchain that says you own the NFT for that season ticket. We'll sell millions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) From a quick twitter search. This seems typical of Football's experience with NFTs. https://theathletic.com/news/john-terrys-nft-collection-plunges-90-in-value/O0qBVJcqpDit/ Edited June 20, 2022 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, tian447 said: Season Ticket NFTs. You won't be able to actually use it to go to a match, own it, or even look at or touch it. But you'll be the proud owner of an entry on the blockchain that says you own the NFT for that season ticket. We'll sell millions! Dynamic NFT's !! seriously though, clearly most of us need educating on the subject so i would love to hear of an example of what we would actually be selling 🤷♀️ It's early days for NFT's i suppose so will take some getting used to and i suspect there will be a few false starts before something actually takes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Can someone explain NFT’s to me in the simplest of terms please? After the FootballIndex debacle I’m hesitant to get into anything like this again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said: Can someone explain NFT’s to me in the simplest of terms please? After the FootballIndex debacle I’m hesitant to get into anything like this again. From Wikipedia. Bits in bold will give you a bit of an overview, and I apologies in advance for the Mr Lawson length of post. Non-fungible token A non-fungible token (NFT) is a financial security consisting of digital data stored in a blockchain, a form of distributed ledger. The ownership of an NFT is recorded in the blockchain, and can be transferred by the owner, allowing NFTs to be sold and traded. NFTs can be created by anybody, and require few or no coding skills to create.[1] NFTs typically contain references to digital files such as photos, videos, and audio. Because NFTs are uniquely identifiable, they differ from cryptocurrencies, which are fungible. The market value of an NFT is associated with the digital file it references. Proponents of NFTs claim that NFTs provide a public certificate of authenticity or proof of ownership, but the legal rights conveyed by an NFT can be uncertain. The ownership of an NFT as defined by the blockchain has no inherent legal meaning, and does not necessarily grant copyright, intellectual property rights, or other legal rights over its associated digital file. An NFT does not restrict the sharing or copying of its associated digital file, and does not prevent the creation of NFTs that reference identical files. Characteristics An NFT is a unit of data, stored on a type of digital ledger called a blockchain, which can be sold and traded.[6] The NFT can be associated with a particular digital or physical asset including but not limited to, art, songs, and sport highlights[7] and a license to use the asset for a specified purpose.[8] An NFT (and, if applicable, the associated license to use, copy, or display the underlying asset) can be traded and sold on digital markets.[9] The extralegal nature of NFT trading usually results in an informal exchange of ownership over the asset that has no legal basis for enforcement,[10] and so often confers little more than use as a status symbol.[11] NFTs function like cryptographic tokens, but unlike cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum, NFTs are not mutually interchangeable, and so are not fungible. (While all bitcoins are equal, each NFT may represent a different underlying asset and thus may have a different value.)[12] NFTs are created when blockchains concatenate records containing cryptographic hashes—sets of characters that identify a set of data—onto previous records, creating a chain of identifiable data blocks.[13] This cryptographic transaction process ensures the authentication of each digital file[clarification needed] by providing a digital signature that tracks NFT ownership.[13] Data links that are part of NFT records, that for example may point to details about where the associated art is stored, can be affected by link rot.[14] Copyright Ownership of an NFT does not inherently grant copyright or intellectual property rights to the digital asset the NFT purports to represent.[15][16] Someone may sell an NFT that represents their work, but the buyer will not necessarily receive copyright to that work, so the seller may create additional NFTs of the same work.[17][18] So an NFT is merely proof of ownership[clarification needed] separate from copyright.[16][19] According to legal scholar Rebecca Tushnet, "In one sense, the purchaser acquires whatever the art world thinks they have acquired. They definitely do not own the copyright to the underlying work unless it is explicitly transferred."[20] Issues and criticisms Unenforceability of copyright Because the contents of NFTs are publicly accessible, anybody can easily copy a file referenced by an NFT. Furthermore, the ownership of an NFT on the blockchain does not inherently convey legally enforceable intellectual property rights to the file. It has become well known that an NFT image can be copied or saved from a web browser by using a right click menu to download the referenced image. NFT supporters disparage this duplication of NFT artwork as "right-clicker mentality". One collector quoted by Vice compared the value of a purchased NFT (in contrast to an unpurchased copy of the underlying asset) to that of a status symbol "to show off that they can afford to pay that much".[11] The "right-clicker mentality" phrase spread virally after its introduction, particularly among those who were critical of the NFT marketplace and who appropriated the term to flaunt their ability to capture digital art backed by NFT with ease.[11] This criticism was promoted by Australian programmer Geoffrey Huntley who created "The NFT Bay", modeled after The Pirate Bay. The NFT Bay advertised a torrent file purported to contain 19 terabytes of digital art NFT images. Huntley compared his work to an art project from Pauline Pantsdown, and hoped the site would help educate users on what NFTs are and are not.[105] Storage off-chain NFTs that represent digital art generally do not store the associated artwork file on the blockchain due to the large size of such a file. Such a token functions like a certificate of ownership, with a web address that points to the piece of art in question; this however makes the art itself vulnerable to link rot.[22] Environmental concerns See also: Environmental impact of cryptocurrencies NFT purchases and sales are enabled by the high energy usage, and consequent greenhouse gas emissions, associated with blockchain transactions.[106] Though all forms of Ethereum transactions have an impact on the environment, the direct impact of transaction is also dependent upon the size of the Ethereum transaction.[107] The proof-of-work protocol required to regulate and verify blockchain transactions on networks such as Ethereum consumes a large amount of electricity.[108] To estimate the carbon footprint of a given NFT transaction requires a variety of assumptions or estimations about the manner in which that transaction is set up on the blockchain, the economic behavior of blockchain miners (and the energy demands of their mining equipment),[109] and the amount of renewable energy being used on these networks.[110] There are also conceptual questions, such as whether the carbon footprint estimate for an NFT purchase should incorporate some portion of the ongoing energy demand of the underlying network, or just the marginal impact of that particular purchase.[111] An analogy might be the carbon footprint associated with an additional passenger on a given airline flight.[106] Some NFT technologies use validation protocols such as proof of stake that use much less energy per validation cycle. Other approaches to reducing electricity include the use of off-chain transactions as part of minting an NFT.[106] A number of NFT art sites hope to address these concerns, and some are moving to technologies and protocols with lower associated footprints.[112] Others now allow the option of buying carbon offsets when making NFT purchases, although the environmental benefits of this have been questioned.[113] In some instances, NFT artists have decided against selling some of their own work to limit carbon emission contributions.[114] Though there are now "eco-friendly" NFTs, Ethereum still dominates the NFT market, resulting in an impact on the environment.[115] Artist and buyer fees Sales platforms charge artists and buyers fees for minting, listing, claiming, and secondary sales. Analysis of NFT markets in March 2021, in the immediate aftermath of Beeple's "Everydays: the First 5000 Days" selling for US$69.3 million, found that most NFT artworks were selling for less than US$200, with a third selling for less than US$100.[116] Those selling NFTs below $100 were paying platform fees between 72.5% and 157.5% of that amount. On average the fees make 100.5% of the price, meaning that such artists were on average paying more money in fees than they were making in sales.[116] Plagiarism and fraud There have been cases of artists and creators having their work sold by others as an NFT without permission.[117] After the artist Qing Han died in 2020, her identity was assumed by a fraudster and a number of her works became available for purchase as NFTs.[118] Similarly, a seller posing as Banksy succeeded in selling an NFT supposedly made by the artist for $336,000 in 2021; the seller refunded the money after the case drew media attention.[119] In 2022, it was discovered that as part of their NFT marketing campaign, an NFT company that voice actor Troy Baker announced his partnership with had plagiarized voice lines generated from 15.ai, a free AI text-to-speech project developed by MIT.[120][121][122] The ease of creating plagiarized NFT works, along with the anonymity of minting NFTs, makes it hard to pursue legal action against NFT plagiarists.[123] Some NFT marketplaces responded to cases of plagiarism by creating "takedown teams" to respond to artist complaints. The NFT marketplace OpenSea has rules against plagiarism and deepfakes (non-consensual intimate imagery). Some artists criticized OpenSea's efforts, saying they are slow to respond to takedown requests and that artists are subject to support scams from users who claim to be representatives from the platform.[46] Others argue that there is no market incentive for NFT marketplaces to crack down on plagiarism.[123] A process known as "sleepminting" allows a fraudster to mint an NFT in an artist's wallet and transfer it back to their own account without the artist becoming aware.[124] This allowed a white hat hacker to mint a fraudulent NFT that had seemingly originated from the wallet of the artist Beeple.[124] Plagiarism concerns led the art website DeviantArt to create a bot that searches and compares user art to art on popular NFT marketplaces. If the bot finds art that is similar, it warns the user and instructs the user how they can contact NFT marketplaces to request that they take down their plagiarized work.[46] The BBC reported a case of insider trading when an employee of the NFT marketplace OpenSea bought specific NFTs before they were launched, with prior knowledge those NFTs would be promoted on the company's home page. NFT trading is an unregulated market in which there is no legal recourse for such abuses.[125] When Adobe announced they were adding NFT support to their graphics editor Photoshop, the company proposed creating an InterPlanetary File System database as an alternative means of establishing authenticity for digital works.[126] The price paid for specific NFTs and the sales volume of a particular NFT author may be artificially inflated by wash trading, which is prevalent due to a lack of government regulation on NFTs.[127][128] Security In January 2022, it was reported that some NFTs were being exploited by sellers to unknowingly gather user IP addresses.[129] Pyramid/Ponzi scheme claims The structure of the NFT market resembles a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, in which early adopters profit at the expense of those buying in later.[130] In June 2022, Bill Gates stated his belief that NFTs are "100% based on greater fool theory".[131] Rug pulls A "rug pull" is a scam, similar to an exit scam or a pump and dump scheme, in which the developers of an NFT or other blockchain project hype the value of a project to pump up the price and then suddenly sell all their tokens to lock in massive profits or otherwise abandon the project while removing liquidity, permanently destroying the value of the project.[132][133] Rug pulls have become an increasingly common hazard when buying NFTs, with the proceeds of some rug pulls being valued at hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars.[134] Rug pulls accounted for 37 percent of all crypto-related scam revenue in 2021, according to one analysis.[133] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 tl;dr Greater Fool Theory: In finance, the greater fool theory suggests that one can sometimes make money through the purchase of overvalued assets — items with a purchase price drastically exceeding the intrinsic value — if those assets can later be resold at an even higher price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said: Can someone explain NFT’s to me in the simplest of terms please? After the FootballIndex debacle I’m hesitant to get into anything like this again. There is a simple description in the "Athletic" article I linked to above. I've copied the article in full below. John Terry’s collection of non-fungible tokens (NFTs) have plummeted in value by 90 per cent over the past month, with England internationals Tammy Abraham and Ashley Cole quietly deleting their endorsements of the controversial scheme, The Athletic can reveal. This comes as the Premier League is considering its own official NFT partnership deal potentially worth hundreds of millions of dollars, despite the sector being completely unregulated, and the subject of fierce criticism. Terry’s ‘Ape Kids Football Club’ NFTs were publicly trading for an average price of $656 after launch on February 2, but by March 8 the average price had dropped to $65. This means football fans who bought NFTs because their heroes endorsed them on social media stand to lose huge amounts of cash. Non-fungible tokens are a form of digital asset based on blockchain technology that underpins cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum. To their advocates, they are the modern iteration of trading merchandise like stickers or clothing, but to detractors, they are enriching the already wealthy to the detriment of sports fans exposed to unregulated financial speculation. There has been a general dip in the cryptocurrency and NFT markets in recent weeks, which may explain part of the dip, though not nearly as big as 90 per cent. After Terry announced Ape Kids Football Club in January, the Premier League staged a legal intervention over NFTs which used an image of the trophy, protected by intellectual property laws. Premier League, UEFA and FA trophies were removed from the Ape Football Kids Club NFTs, as well as the badge of Chelsea, the club which Terry now works for, for similar reasons. My understanding is that you are "buying" a digital asset, e.g. Let's say Hearts own the IP rights to an iconic image such as that of Rudi holding the Scottish Cup in 2012. Hearts may "sell" you a digital copy of that image for £100, which comes with a proof of authenticity and ownership. Your ownership of that "asset" is just a record held on a database somewhere in the ether. The asset can either be retained by yourself, or sold on to someone else. How much is it worth? Whatever someone is prepared to pay for it, as always. Would the iconic image be worth £100, when anyone can copy it for free, retain it on their own phone / tablet, or indeed print off a copy for their own satisfaction? It is a money making exercise for those "selling" assets that have little or no value, unless you value having your name recorded electronically somewhere. At least those who contributed to the 500 club that helped build stands at Tynecastle or have contributed to FOH have a physical record of their name that they can point to. Such an exercise carried out by Hearts would just be a donation to the club and the company creating and marketing the electronic assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masonic Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-nft-uk-royal-mint-b2066615.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Some excellent comments on this already (thanks to the Tulip Mania comments, the Greater Fool Theory, and so on). The OP posted in good faith and I don't want to dunk too hard, but here's why I think NFTs are gratuitous and we're already doing something far, far better that works the same way without climate-killing implications. NFTs, like all things with no use value, have value only in a social context. I've read some people who are into NFTs have said they don't mind losing some money on it, as the community that emerged around things like the Bored Ape Yacht Club (God knows why) was worth it, as they enjoyed being able to claim ownership of various apes on the discussion boards around them. An NFT is just the equivalent of a certificate that says you're the nominal owner of a thing in some abstract sense. It makes people feel good because owning the certificate makes you feel connected. At Hearts, we already have something that we pay money for and that makes us feel more connected to the club. It's called a Foundation of Hearts certificate, and it's a real, paper certificate that says we've donated a certain amount. It's not worth anything, like an NFT, but it's a sign of pride, and occasionally we get things like plot ceremonies and kit tops with our names printed on them. We don't need a blockchain or funny apes or what not. We saved our club without a data center full of GPUs playing silly number games to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WageThief Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Masonic said: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-nft-uk-royal-mint-b2066615.html 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 On 19/06/2022 at 12:17, Masonic said: For years we have seen autographs, stickers and collectable cards too but what if Hearts minted their own version of these by using the Solana blockchain to mint NFTs? Money goes directly to Hearts Proof of authenticity and ownership stored on the blockchain LIMITED SUPPLY in which the buyers know how rare their item is such as 1 of 10 etc No damage can be done to the items as they are digital and dont suffer the normal wear and tear and wont be effected by printers making mistakes This is just some of the benefits i can see from the club doing this.. Some other businesses involved in the NFT space UFC ARMANI ADIDAS D&G SUPERBOWL COACHELLA TACO BELL PIZZA HUT MATTEL RAYBAN COCA COLA FUNKOPOP VISA No, no and no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 19/06/2022 at 06:17, Masonic said: For years we have seen autographs, stickers and collectable cards too but what if Hearts minted their own version of these by using the Solana blockchain to mint NFTs? Money goes directly to Hearts Proof of authenticity and ownership stored on the blockchain LIMITED SUPPLY in which the buyers know how rare their item is such as 1 of 10 etc No damage can be done to the items as they are digital and dont suffer the normal wear and tear and wont be effected by printers making mistakes This is just some of the benefits i can see from the club doing this.. Some other businesses involved in the NFT space UFC ARMANI ADIDAS D&G SUPERBOWL COACHELLA TACO BELL PIZZA HUT MATTEL RAYBAN COCA COLA FUNKOPOP VISA I approached about this. Hearts have no plans to look at NFTs any time soon was the reply. That might/has changed mind you. I actually have a business in this space partnered with a gaming network allowing good utility on NFTs like for example wear a hearts shirt in virtual games, NFT personalised access and more. In all fairness, we monitored Hibs foray into this with Sportemon Go who went bust. Rangers had a deal with them also. So can understand the wide birth. That said if your FOH membership was an NFT you could recieve passive income for holding it. Not the point I know, but theres some genius real use cases now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 7 hours ago, Led Tasso said: Some excellent comments on this already (thanks to the Tulip Mania comments, the Greater Fool Theory, and so on). The OP posted in good faith and I don't want to dunk too hard, but here's why I think NFTs are gratuitous and we're already doing something far, far better that works the same way without climate-killing implications. NFTs, like all things with no use value, have value only in a social context. I've read some people who are into NFTs have said they don't mind losing some money on it, as the community that emerged around things like the Bored Ape Yacht Club (God knows why) was worth it, as they enjoyed being able to claim ownership of various apes on the discussion boards around them. An NFT is just the equivalent of a certificate that says you're the nominal owner of a thing in some abstract sense. It makes people feel good because owning the certificate makes you feel connected. At Hearts, we already have something that we pay money for and that makes us feel more connected to the club. It's called a Foundation of Hearts certificate, and it's a real, paper certificate that says we've donated a certain amount. It's not worth anything, like an NFT, but it's a sign of pride, and occasionally we get things like plot ceremonies and kit tops with our names printed on them. We don't need a blockchain or funny apes or what not. We saved our club without a data center full of GPUs playing silly number games to prove it. NFTs do have real use and value. I work with the guy who invented ERC1155. The problem is the early Bored Ape style tokens get the headlines. Weve worked on a number of NFT projects in tourism thats attracted support from Edinburgh Futures Institute, Traveltech Scotland, Mexico Tourism, and more. I guarantee you NFTs have real and sensible use cases and value. Why mot have FOH paper and NFT certificates. NFT season tickets are another big potential game changer. I tried. But tbh, Tourism is more where we are growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I want an NFT of Masonic and That Thing You Do ………… preferably a shiny hologram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, That thing you do said: I approached about this. Hearts have no plans to look at NFTs any time soon was the reply. That might/has changed mind you. I actually have a business in this space partnered with a gaming network allowing good utility on NFTs like for example wear a hearts shirt in virtual games, NFT personalised access and more. In all fairness, we monitored Hibs foray into this with Sportemon Go who went bust. Rangers had a deal with them also. So can understand the wide birth. That said if your FOH membership was an NFT you could recieve passive income for holding it. Not the point I know, but theres some genius real use cases now. 1 hour ago, That thing you do said: NFTs do have real use and value. I work with the guy who invented ERC1155. The problem is the early Bored Ape style tokens get the headlines. Weve worked on a number of NFT projects in tourism thats attracted support from Edinburgh Futures Institute, Traveltech Scotland, Mexico Tourism, and more. I guarantee you NFTs have real and sensible use cases and value. Why mot have FOH paper and NFT certificates. NFT season tickets are another big potential game changer. I tried. But tbh, Tourism is more where we are growing. Tell me more because I don't get it. I understand what Blockchain is, I understand what utility tokens are. But what's the problem with season tickets that NFTs are going to solve? What are they adding? What are the genius uses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Basically utility means what the NFT can be created to do. So simple example, Bannockburn. We call NFTs "Living Souvenirs" I go to the museum and am particularly interested in armour. In most peoples mind if I can get an nft of a suit of armour, then i have that image and not alot else, but thats not the case. With my armour NFT - i can have it rendered as wearable in multiple games/online worlds for my avatar - i can be given personalised UX around extra content - the nft can be set to also represent a ticket to a virtual event, making interaction before, during and after a real world visit. - on chain metrics can be used to identify holders and create for examples offers to go to a real life battle reenactment because i hold the nft. - crafting. Simple example, i hold a hammer and anvil nft this can be recognised and crafted into "Blacksmith Shop" . So you can gamify and reward/incentivise crafting - ours are created on a carbon negative network. NFTs are immutable on the blockchain so we are (for example) working with distillers to authenticate whisky and in Mexico certify tour guides through NFT and Metadata. NFT season ticket: Advantages- can be temporarily rented using smart contracts, so if im away my cousin can use it. This of course is transferred for a fee to the club. Reduced costs vs plastic cards. Our NFTs cost about 8p raw price to make Provides passive income to the fans Opportunity for rewards, offers, content dropped to your season ticket address. Airdrop key match moments to keep as a souvenir. Add to own digital gallery, samsung phone for a personalised highlights collection. Gamify- rewards for going to each away ground Community activities Courses in innovation centre. Weve work with schools elsewhere in Scotland. Link your season ticket to samsung health and STEPN or similar that rewards you for exercise. Literally get paid to walk to the ground . Sxratching the surface here but its all doable now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Sooks said: I want an NFT of Masonic and That Thing You Do ………… preferably a shiny hologram Ours distribute via QR so i probably could drop one in. Europe themed Up to 100k NFTs on a single QR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, That thing you do said: Ours distribute via QR so i probably could drop one in. Europe themed Up to 100k NFTs on a single QR. I have changed my mind I am going to get Pokémon Go instead sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, That thing you do said: Basically utility means what the NFT can be created to do. So simple example, Bannockburn. We call NFTs "Living Souvenirs" I go to the museum and am particularly interested in armour. In most peoples mind if I can get an nft of a suit of armour, then i have that image and not alot else, but thats not the case. With my armour NFT - i can have it rendered as wearable in multiple games/online worlds for my avatar - i can be given personalised UX around extra content - the nft can be set to also represent a ticket to a virtual event, making interaction before, during and after a real world visit. - on chain metrics can be used to identify holders and create for examples offers to go to a real life battle reenactment because i hold the nft. - crafting. Simple example, i hold a hammer and anvil nft this can be recognised and crafted into "Blacksmith Shop" . So you can gamify and reward/incentivise crafting - ours are created on a carbon negative network. NFTs are immutable on the blockchain so we are (for example) working with distillers to authenticate whisky and in Mexico certify tour guides through NFT and Metadata. NFT season ticket: Advantages- can be temporarily rented using smart contracts, so if im away my cousin can use it. This of course is transferred for a fee to the club. Reduced costs vs plastic cards. Our NFTs cost about 8p raw price to make Provides passive income to the fans Opportunity for rewards, offers, content dropped to your season ticket address. Airdrop key match moments to keep as a souvenir. Add to own digital gallery, samsung phone for a personalised highlights collection. Gamify- rewards for going to each away ground Community activities Courses in innovation centre. Weve work with schools elsewhere in Scotland. Link your season ticket to samsung health and STEPN or similar that rewards you for exercise. Literally get paid to walk to the ground . Sxratching the surface here but its all doable now. I bow to your knowledge but genuinely do not see how you can dumb this down enough for the average football fan (including myself) to grasp the concept! It does seem to me that most of the ideas you mention around the ST can be done now, no? And I wouldn’t be charging anyone else to use my ticket if I don’t go either 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Any one want to buy a shiny Mewtwo Pokémon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, That thing you do said: Basically utility means what the NFT can be created to do. So simple example, Bannockburn. We call NFTs "Living Souvenirs" I go to the museum and am particularly interested in armour. In most peoples mind if I can get an nft of a suit of armour, then i have that image and not alot else, but thats not the case. With my armour NFT - i can have it rendered as wearable in multiple games/online worlds for my avatar - i can be given personalised UX around extra content - the nft can be set to also represent a ticket to a virtual event, making interaction before, during and after a real world visit. - on chain metrics can be used to identify holders and create for examples offers to go to a real life battle reenactment because i hold the nft. - crafting. Simple example, i hold a hammer and anvil nft this can be recognised and crafted into "Blacksmith Shop" . So you can gamify and reward/incentivise crafting - ours are created on a carbon negative network. NFTs are immutable on the blockchain so we are (for example) working with distillers to authenticate whisky and in Mexico certify tour guides through NFT and Metadata. NFT season ticket: Advantages- can be temporarily rented using smart contracts, so if im away my cousin can use it. This of course is transferred for a fee to the club. Reduced costs vs plastic cards. Our NFTs cost about 8p raw price to make Provides passive income to the fans Opportunity for rewards, offers, content dropped to your season ticket address. Airdrop key match moments to keep as a souvenir. Add to own digital gallery, samsung phone for a personalised highlights collection. Gamify- rewards for going to each away ground Community activities Courses in innovation centre. Weve work with schools elsewhere in Scotland. Link your season ticket to samsung health and STEPN or similar that rewards you for exercise. Literally get paid to walk to the ground . Sxratching the surface here but its all doable now. Unless I'm missing something I don't see anything there that can't be done without NFTs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgieshed Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, That thing you do said: Basically utility means what the NFT can be created to do. So simple example, Bannockburn. We call NFTs "Living Souvenirs" I go to the museum and am particularly interested in armour. In most peoples mind if I can get an nft of a suit of armour, then i have that image and not alot else, but thats not the case. With my armour NFT - i can have it rendered as wearable in multiple games/online worlds for my avatar - i can be given personalised UX around extra content - the nft can be set to also represent a ticket to a virtual event, making interaction before, during and after a real world visit. - on chain metrics can be used to identify holders and create for examples offers to go to a real life battle reenactment because i hold the nft. - crafting. Simple example, i hold a hammer and anvil nft this can be recognised and crafted into "Blacksmith Shop" . So you can gamify and reward/incentivise crafting - ours are created on a carbon negative network. NFTs are immutable on the blockchain so we are (for example) working with distillers to authenticate whisky and in Mexico certify tour guides through NFT and Metadata. NFT season ticket: Advantages- can be temporarily rented using smart contracts, so if im away my cousin can use it. This of course is transferred for a fee to the club. Reduced costs vs plastic cards. Our NFTs cost about 8p raw price to make Provides passive income to the fans Opportunity for rewards, offers, content dropped to your season ticket address. Airdrop key match moments to keep as a souvenir. Add to own digital gallery, samsung phone for a personalised highlights collection. Gamify- rewards for going to each away ground Community activities Courses in innovation centre. Weve work with schools elsewhere in Scotland. Link your season ticket to samsung health and STEPN or similar that rewards you for exercise. Literally get paid to walk to the ground . Sxratching the surface here but its all doable now. Read all that and nope it won't make sense to the general public. Not a dig at the poster but it basically sounds like a pyramid scheme for the rich and intelligent. That's the conclusion I get every time I do research on them. They get a soft launch to investors who buy them at an initial cost/price. They market all the NFTs hard and then do a launch at a higher price to those interested in the NFT world, who then in turn sell to Joe Public at an even higher price as they have been duped into thinking they are amazing products through being brain washed. They then have something that does literally nothing, ever and have parted with hard earned cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WageThief Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 35 minutes ago, Sooks said: Any one want to buy a shiny Mewtwo Pokémon I am actually involved in the multi-level marketing "space". We distribute everything via torrent on the dark web because we hate centralised pyramid selling. Just send me some tether on Ethereum to get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, WageThief said: I am actually involved in the multi-level marketing "space". We distribute everything via torrent on the dark web because we hate centralised pyramid selling. Just send me some tether on Ethereum to get involved. I will toss in a one hundred per cent Pikachu in that case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth to Paisley Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 The Athletic has a long detailed article on the impact on the EPL clubs https://theathletic.com/3378407/2022/06/28/crypto-crash-premier-league?source=user-shared-article (Behind a paywall) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth to Paisley Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) Spoiler Cryptocurrency markets are tanking around the world. Bitcoin, for example, is down 70 per cent from its all-time peak in November. Many ordinary investors who got in at the height of the hype have lost a lot of money. But what does this have to do with football? Actually quite a lot, it turns out. Over the past couple of years as digital assets have become more and more popular, lots of sports teams have signed up for lucrative sponsorship deals in the sector. According to one highly experienced club takeover expert, cryptocurrency companies love sponsoring football clubs because they have worked out that it is the cheapest way to find new customers — especially young men. Of last season’s 20 Premier League clubs, all of them but one — we’ll get to that — have at least one cryptocurrency sponsor and some have several. This list builds on several original investigations by The Athletic into the relationship between cryptocurrency and football and analyses the 2021-22 season rather than the upcoming one because many sponsorship deals have not been signed or announced yet. Oh yes, despite the plummeting value of cryptocurrency, there is no sign yet that Premier League clubs’ love affair with it is slowing down. Just about every club in last season’s top flight played some part in promoting volatile unregulated financial assets to its fans, virtually all of which have crashed on a spectacular scale in recent weeks. English clubs are desperate for cash as the cost of running a competitive team constantly spirals upwards. Cryptocurrency sponsorship is certainly a lucrative, and entirely legal, way of generating cash right now. Yet it remains to be seen whether that can continue in the light of the huge crash. Arsenal It’s not often that the UK’s Advertising Standards Authority takes aim at a football club, but in December the watchdog deemed that Arsenal “trivialised investment in cryptoassets and took advantage of consumers’ inexperience or credulity” in a promotion featuring three first-team players. The club said it would seek a review of the ruling. The promotion was for Arsenal’s official “fan token” issued by Socios. The cryptocurrency tokens offer votes and polls on club matters, and can also be traded as a speculative digital asset. Since initially surging amid hype, the Arsenal token has cratered in value and is down more than 80 per cent from its peak, meaning fans who bought the token late last year and have sold them will be hugely out of pocket. The tokens were initially “minted” (launched) at a price of £2 ($2.45), meaning users who flipped their tokens quickly banked a quick profit while those who bought later are sitting on losses. Source: CoinGecko “We want our fans around the globe to be able to engage with the club in different ways. In the digital age, we try to find multiple ways for our supporters to engage with the team and feel part of the club – this is part of that,” an Arsenal spokesperson told The Athletic earlier this year. “We are not promoting this as a financial investment, and we are clear it’s about engaging with the club by taking part in polls and competitions.” A free Socios non-tradeable token was given to some existing supporters such as season-ticket holders. “We don’t market fan tokens as investments,” a Socios spokesperson said. “The purpose of tokens is to give fans new ways to engage with their club, be entertained by it and to win rewards that can’t be gained anywhere else. “That’s the value in the tokens – there are no annual membership fees, just a one-off purchase typically for a couple of pounds which gives the fan a continuous opportunity to win rewards. Our marketing materials include warnings about the risks of purchasing fan tokens for any other purpose.” Aston Villa Aston Villa are another one of Socios’ six Premier League clubs. Villa renamed a road at the training ground based on a Socios poll but social media posts about the firm are greeted with outrage by many fans and the deal has been condemned as “wholly inappropriate” by the Aston Villa Supporters’ Trust. As with Arsenal, the Midlands club’s official fan token has nosedived in value, leaving many fans who bought them as an investment seriously out of pocket — especially as it can be tricky to withdraw cryptocurrency tokens and turn them into cash. Source: CoinGecko Brentford Brentford exceeded almost everyone’s expectations by coming 13th in their first Premier League season. The west London club has a sponsorship deal with an Australian company called Coinjar, an app that enables people to buy and trade cryptocurrencies and partners with such companies as MasterCard and Apple Pay. The website’s homepage shows a virtual cryptocurrency wallet that displays the price of Bitcoin as £30,820.70. But Bitcoin has not been worth that much since the end of April. At the time of writing, is worth about £16,500 — just over half the value displayed on the CoinJar homepage. When the partnership was announced in August 2021, Brentford chief executive Jon Varney said: “The success of both CoinJar and Brentford is a result of rigorous data-analysis, thinking differently and strategic planning. For many, cryptocurrency remains a complex area, so we look forward to working with CoinJar as part of the partnership to help educate our fanbase as both parties continue their rise in our respective industries.” Brighton and Hove Albion You were told there would be an odd one out — and here it is. Brighton are owned by Tony Bloom who — as well as Brentford owner Matthew Benham — made his fortune in sports betting, using sophisticated models to predict the outcome of sporting events and win bets in the big Asian markets. It is understood this has a counter-intuitive impact on sponsorship deals because Brighton tend to steer clear of involvement in activities that could leave them open to criticism. Furthermore, the club have a bumper sponsorship deal with credit card company American Express, a “traditional finance” company often pitted against new digital assets like cryptocurrencies. The club did until recently have a deal with financial trading app eToro, which offers the sale of cryptocurrencies. Burnley AstroPay adorned the billboards at Turf Moor in the Premier League last season. The company, which has just signed a front-of-shirt deal with Wolverhampton Wanderers for the upcoming campaign, is billed on Burnley’s website as “the global leader in online payment solutions”. The website makes clear that a key part of this is buying cryptocurrency and offering an “easy and secure” way of doing so. The AstroPay website has a section called “learn about crypto”, offering advice about the digital tokens. There are some disclaimers to highlight risk and volatility but one page talks up a cryptocurrency token called Ripple, or XRP, “an open-source system that encourages transactions that are speedy and inexpensive”. “Ripple has one of the biggest price potentials of any cryptocurrency due to its enormous potential of becoming the new standard in many industries,” the site says. “Keep in mind that the short and long-term prices of any cryptocurrency might be difficult to anticipate. However, as more institutions use Ripple’s transfer method, its price is likely to rise.” But like virtually all other cryptocurrencies, the price of Ripple has fallen over the past few months. Source: CoinGecko AstroPay did not respond to an inquiry from The Athletic. Chelsea One of the biggest cryptocurrency sponsorship deals in world football is Chelsea’s £20 million-a-year deal with an app called WhaleFin as a sleeve sponsor for the upcoming season. The app, which also sponsors Atletico Madrid, is powered by a Singapore-based company called Amber Group which has offices around the world. Cryptocurrency is often criticised by environmentalists because many tokens, including Bitcoin, require powerful computational calculations to function, which involve running huge computer servers which burns carbon. WhaleFin leans heavily on claims of “sustainability” and pledges to support ocean life, including the whale in the company’s name. The app recently announced it is introducing the ability to transfer NFTs — non-fungible tokens, another type of digital asset. One example of an NFT is the Ape Kids Football Club, established by John Terry, who still works in a coaching role at Chelsea. After he and several other well-known players promoted the NFTs, they cratered in value and have now lost about 99 per cent of their initial price. Source: OpenSea Terry has since endorsed a rebranded scheme called Inter Meta FC. Crystal Palace Crystal Palace’s $CPFC Socios tokens launched a while after those associated with the five other Premier League clubs, some time after there had been significant negative media coverage surrounding fan tokens. According to data provided by the website RocketFan, Palace’s fan token offering in February was far from a success, with just 64,000 of a possible 200,000 tokens being sold to 6,987 holders, netting $174,000 (£140,000) to be split between club and company. Unlike every other club, the tokens have not appeared available for trading with no date yet announced. Previous tokens were unlocked for trading within days. There is no graph for Crystal Palace tokens because they have not been made available for trading. A Socios spokesperson said: “The Crystal Palace token is live and, since its launch, more and more Eagles fans have enjoyed the benefits and rewards it offers — for example, it gives them the opportunity to win VIP experiences for each Crystal Palace home match or the chance to go to the training ground to meet the players.” Everton Everton is another Socios club and the $EFC token has also tanked. Source: CoinGecko The Merseyside club has another intriguing cryptocurrency sponsor in Stake.com, a betting site that will be on the front of shirts next season and also sponsors Watford in the Championship. A club press release announcing the record deal made no mention of cryptocurrency, yet betting in Bitcoin and other tokens is integral to the company’s business model as The Athletic reported earlier this month. Leeds United You can probably guess by now how things are going for those fans who bought up Leeds’ Socios tokens as an investment opportunity, even if Socios says this is not the use for which they are intended. The Leeds plunge has been particularly bad, though. A token is worth barely a dollar, down from $7 around Christmas. Source: CoinGecko Last month, Leeds announced a fundraising effort for the Ukraine humanitarian appeal with an unusual twist. Instead of accepting donations or raising money via conventional methods, the club released a series of 11 NFTs with the website MakersPlace. “Entering into a new NFT campaign and the linking to a current war conflict feels inappropriate and ill-timed,” a spokesperson for the Leeds United Supporters’ Trust told the Yorkshire Evening Post. “The club could have used the same assets and mechanics as their recent fundraisers that raised over £80,000 for local charities.” “Shirts For Ukraine NFTs have been issued as collectable items and not as an investment,” the club said on their website. “The decision to purchase NFTs requires careful consideration.” Leicester City Goodbye, Walkers crisps. Last season, the 2015-16 champions announced a new main sponsor in FBS, an online trading website based in Cyprus which has cryptocurrency at its core. The app offers retail customers the ability to trade in contracts-for-difference (CFDs), complex products which “come with a high risk of losing money rapidly”, according to a legally mandated disclaimer on the site. The crypto tab on the FBS website offers the opportunity to make “leveraged” trades on cryptocurrency. This effectively means that customers can lose (or gain) more money than they put in, unlike in conventional gambling or when buying stocks. Combining these risky products generates “crypto derivatives”, a type of financial product which have been banned from sale to UK retail consumers since January 2021. After a lengthy consultation, the Financial Conduct Authority concluded that “retail consumers might suffer harm from sudden and unexpected losses if they invest in these products”, going on to outline concerns over crime and fraud in the secondary market. FBS offers leveraged trading on crypto, easily viewable when accessing the site from a computer overseas. There is no suggestion FBS is selling these products to UK consumers or breaking UK law in any way. FBS declined to comment. Liverpool Liverpool unveiled a controversial NFT scheme at the end of March. In an announcement that attracted scorn on social media, the club said its “LFC Heroes Club will give fans the opportunity to purchase animated, cartoon-style digital artwork of 23 players and manager Jurgen Klopp”. If Liverpool had managed to sell all 171,072 “unique images” on offer, they could have brought in £8.5 million. But the sale has been a flop, with only around six per cent sold. The Liverpool NFTs can now be traded on the marketplace OpenSea. While they were initially sold for $75 (roughly £57) each, most are now being sold for less than this, meaning fans have lost money on their initial investment. Some are being sold for as little as $11 (£8.96). There was a big spike in early June but many LFC Heroes NFTs are trading for far less than they were “minted” for and far less than they were a couple of months ago. Source: OpenSea Before the NFTs launch, a statement from Liverpool attempted “to make clear to supporters that its NFTs are digital works of art and should not be considered investments”. Manchester City City have been at the forefront of football’s crypto sponsorship revolution. When the club recently won the Premier League after a dramatic final-day comeback against Aston Villa, the Etihad Stadium was plastered with adverts for OKX. A look at this company’s website shows that it deals heavily in crypto derivatives, which are banned from sale to UK consumers because they are deemed too risky for retail investors. There is no suggestion club or company is breaking UK law and the company itself is free to advertise here. City were also one of the first to sign up with Socios. Their tokens spiked at more than $30 (£24.40) last year, far higher than other Premier League clubs, before crashing in the last few months. And the City token has particularly high trading volumes — in part perhaps because it is trading on major cryptocurrency exchanges like Binance. Source: CoinGecko City also signed a firm up as the club’s new “official regional partner in decentralised finance trading analysis” but soon severed the deal after enquiries by multiple news outlets revealed the firm had virtually no digital footprint or named employees. The club also has a bumper deal with online broker Axi, which offers cryptocurrency trading. Manchester United In February, The Athletic revealed a new name would adorn the club’s training kit in a deal worth in excess of £20 million per year. Tezos — which is underpinned by the Tezos Foundation — is a blockchain, or a type of decentralised computer network like Bitcoin or Ethereum. To advocates, blockchains like Tezos could be a way to carry out computerised transactions more efficiently than current technology and help to remove expensive middlemen from the process. Detractors highlight the fact that blockchain transactions require huge computing power which emits carbon, though Tezos presents itself as a more energy-efficient platform. Tezos also has an associated cryptocurrency token, which has plummeted in value, losing around two-thirds of what it was worth when United announced the deal four months ago. Source: CoinGecko Newcastle United Newcastle — newly wealthy after the takeover by Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund last October — are one of several clubs to have a sponsorship deal with eToro. The Cyprus-based company offers a controversial cryptocurrency product called “staking”. This “allows users who own and hold supported cryptoassets to earn rewards just for holding them”, says the firm’s website. This works in a similar way to how a conventional bank account accumulates interest but there is virtually no regulation governing this in the UK. As a legally mandated disclaimer says on the eToro website, “your capital is at risk”. Norwich City In January, when crypto markets were not far off their peak and Norwich City still had a faint dream of retaining Premier League status, the club announced a new deal with an “innovative fintech ecosystem” called Scallop. Fintech stands for financial technology and cryptocurrency is at the heart of the product, but it is hard to determine exactly what the company does. The website describes itself as “the simplest way to manage digital money” as well as “enhance and simplify your crypto journey”. A banner on the company website says it has been “featured in” various esteemed publications like Forbes, Bloomberg and Yahoo Finance. However, these articles appear to be paid-for press releases hosted on these sites. As is so often the case with bewildering new crypto companies, Scallop also has its own volatile unregulated cryptocurrency token, Scallop Coin (SCLP). A Scallop Coin was worth $1.97 (£1.60) when Norwich announced the deal and 20 cents (20p) now, while the longer-term trend shows an even more dramatic nosedive. Source: CoinGecko Southampton Southampton are in the middle of a three-year front-of-shirt deal with Sportsbet, an online casino which also sponsors billboards at Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium. Rather like Stake.com, for those accessing its website from outside of the UK, the firm accepts payment in cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, something no UK-based bookmakers tend to do. However, its “white-label” website — the UK-facing site — makes no mention of cryptocurrency. Last year, several Southampton players including Danny Ings and James Ward-Prowse appeared in a “crypto education” sponsorship video, available on YouTube, in which the players repeated cryptocurrency memes such as ‘HODL’. This term is based on a misspelling of the word “hold” on a forum in the early days of cryptocurrency, and is used to encourage users not to sell their tokens when prices are falling. In November last year, Sportsbet and Southampton announced a “first-of-its-kind Crypto Fan Fund, donating two Bitcoin to be used to deliver a series of fan-led initiatives across the 2021-22 season and beyond”. The club’s supporters panel would decide the good causes to which the money would go. Sportsbet said it would underwrite the fund “for the value of two Bitcoin at the point of donation, guaranteeing the club access to at least the minimum value of the fund”. That announcement almost exactly marked the top of the market for Bitcoin, which has gone down, down and down some more since the Crypto Fan Fund was announced in November. Source: CoinGecko Tottenham Hotspur The north London club has a sponsorship deal with trading app Libertex, which is operated by companies in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines as well as Mauritius, and accepts payments via a firm in Cyprus. The website has a list of “restricted countries” including the United States and all 27 member states of the European Union. A page on the company’s website offers a “crypto mining” service directly beneath the Spurs logo, which features on every page of the website as part of the sponsorship tie-in. Its “Bitcoin cloud mining” offers a way to rent computing power to generate Bitcoin, via complex computational transactions, which can earn the user money. “Earn free Bitcoin daily with one click. Trade mined rewards profit anytime. No hidden fees or charges,” the site says. Though various crypto projects make hard-to-verify claims about being environmentally sustainable, Bitcoin requires powerful computers which involve burning fossil fuels and a huge carbon footprint. On its website, Tottenham say they have “proudly joined the UN Race to Zero, committing to halve its carbon emissions by 2030 and become net zero carbon by 2040”. The club has also finished top of the Premier League sustainability table for three years in a row. A spokesperson for Libertex said the product, which will not be made available in Europe, is “virtual” and does not actually involve the mining of Bitcoins, though this is not made clear on the website. “Any crypto that is paid out to our users is purchased by the company in advance from digital assets that are already in circulation and then distributed to the users based on what they ‘mine’ via our Virtual Bitcoin Miner,” a spokesperson said, emphasising the scheme will not harm the environment. “That way the users get the experience and reward of mining but without any of the inconvenience.” Watford Watford, like Everton, are sponsored by Stake.com but last season had Dogecoin on their players’ shirt sleeves too. Dogecoin was originally devised in 2013 as a joke to poke fun at the speculative rise and fall of the new wave of digital currencies. The word “doge” (a slang term for dog) comes from an internet meme of a picture of a Shiba Inu dog surrounded by multi-coloured words representing its imaginary thoughts. From satirical beginnings, it has risen in prominence and received the backing of tech billionaire investor Elon Musk. Last April one Dogecoin surged to 74 cents (60p). It was 34 cents (28p) the day after the Watford deal was announced and it is now worth less than seven cents (less than 6p). A Watford fan who invested in their team’s new sponsor originally will have lost 80 per cent of their cash, not including transaction fees. Source: CoinGecko The Hertfordshire club is somewhat of a pioneer in the world of cryptocurrency and football, having had Bitcoin as a sleeve sponsor for the 2019-20 season when Sportsbet, current sponsor of Southampton, was on the front of the yellow-and-black shirts. As part of that deal, Vicarage Road was set to hold a ‘Crypto Cup’ in March 2020, although it never took place because of the pandemic. West Ham United West Ham United has an “official decentralised asset management partner” called PeakDeFi. (DeFi is short for Decentralised Finance.) There is no contact address, company name or named individuals listed on the website, though there is an unnamed “data controller” based in Dubai. There does not even appear to be an email address. PeakDeFi calls itself a “decentralized asset management fund” where investors pool their resources and generate returns. The scheme also has an associated cryptocurrency token called PEAK — and you can probably predict the next bit already. Since the partnership was announced by West Ham on May 9, the token has lost three-quarters of its value. Source: CoinGecko Looking further back, the token has lost almost 99 per cent of its value since it surged to a peak last August. West Ham and PeakDeFi declined to comment. Wolverhampton Wanderers Wolves recently replaced controversial Asian gambling sponsor ManBetX on the front of its shirts with AstroPay, the payment app enabling cryptocurrency purchases which also has a deal with Burnley. In the Premier League last season, Wolves had Bitci as its sleeve partner as “official cryptocurrency trading and fan token partner”. The Turkish company has had a turbulent few months, with Formula One team McLaren Racing and football clubs Sporting Lisbon in Portugal and Spezia in Italy dropping it as a sponsor. Bitci was initially a cryptocurrency exchange but now seems to be pitching itself in the fan token market, somewhat similar to Socios. Scottish club Rangers also had a deal with Bitci. Wolves announced earlier this month that Bitci would be replaced as a sleeve sponsor by 12Bet, an online gambling firm. Bitci’s deal with Wolves expired at the end of the 2021-22 season, and it is understood there are no outstanding payments and no legal action will take place. (Design: Sam Richardson) Edited June 30, 2022 by Perth to Paisley Paywall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Gorgieshed said: Read all that and nope it won't make sense to the general public. Not a dig at the poster but it basically sounds like a pyramid scheme for the rich and intelligent. That's the conclusion I get every time I do research on them. They get a soft launch to investors who buy them at an initial cost/price. They market all the NFTs hard and then do a launch at a higher price to those interested in the NFT world, who then in turn sell to Joe Public at an even higher price as they have been duped into thinking they are amazing products through being brain washed. They then have something that does literally nothing, ever and have parted with hard earned cash. Fair enough you think that. I should point out though, price has exactly zero to do with it. At least for us. Its not about raising the price at all. In fact we are working with a 5 star museum and nfts are all free to the public. Also we do information and education so the community has a voice and is a participant. The highest charge on any project per nft to joe public is £1. Its more about digital enhancement through storytelling, challenge and gamification than profiteering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, That thing you do said: Fair enough you think that. I should point out though, price has exactly zero to do with it. At least for us. Its not about raising the price at all. In fact we are working with a 5 star museum and nfts are all free to the public. Also we do information and education so the community has a voice and is a participant. The highest charge on any project per nft to joe public is £1. Its more about digital enhancement through storytelling, challenge and gamification than profiteering. I assume there will be resources that allow you accumulate more NFTs some sort of credits or points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 19/06/2022 at 12:19, Jeff said: Load of pish 100% this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Sooks said: I assume there will be resources that allow you accumulate more NFTs some sort of credits or points Yeah you can do that, the way we are thinking is essentially the crypto we use and the earning of that = points. Basically the same theory as Air Miles but much more transferrable. We work with a gift store that allows you to use the coins to convert to gift cards for anything from PlayStation to Uber. The NFTs are infused with ENJ so have a basic value in ENJ as well. However, we dont collect royalties on transfers etc. Thats purely for the client (and end user) as its their IP and the point is they benefit. Sportemon Go who Hibs went with, they charged an 8% royalty on any sale for themselves. This is where NFTs get a bad name because they are profiteering off the sales/resales of the business. It also means the higher they put the floor price ie if they bid high on their own tokens, they can make more money. It was a racket and a half. We dont do that as we have 0 incentive or interest in the price going up or down. So if prices go up it benefits the fan who sold it and the club who get a fee but we dont take any money from that sale. And we cannot manipulate prices like they were doing to make money off the club or the fans. Edited June 30, 2022 by That thing you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, That thing you do said: Yeah you can do that, the way we are thinking is essentially the crypto we use and the earning of that = points. Basically the same theory as Air Miles but much more transferrable. We work with a gift store that allows you to use the coins to convert to gift cards for anything from PlayStation to Uber. The NFTs are infused with ENJ so have a basic value in ENJ as well. However, we dont collect royalties on transfers etc. Thats purely for the client (and end user) as its their IP and the point is they benefit. Sportemon Go who Hibs went with, they charged an 8% royalty on any sale for themselves. This is where NFTs get a bad name because they are profiteering off the sales/resales of the business. It also means the higher they put the floor price ie if they bid high on their own tokens, they can make more money. It was a racket and a half. We dont do that as we have 0 incentive or interest in the price going up or down. So if prices go up it benefits the fan who sold it and the club who get a fee but we dont take any money from that sale. And we cannot manipulate prices like they were doing to make money off the club or the fans. It is not really for me I find that these things are usually easy click money pits one of my kids has the Pokemon one and the temptation is always there for her to ask me to convert real money in to the in game currency to buy resources small amounts at a time but it would add up so I deleted the app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, That thing you do said: Yeah you can do that, the way we are thinking is essentially the crypto we use and the earning of that = points. Basically the same theory as Air Miles but much more transferrable. We work with a gift store that allows you to use the coins to convert to gift cards for anything from PlayStation to Uber. The NFTs are infused with ENJ so have a basic value in ENJ as well. However, we dont collect royalties on transfers etc. Thats purely for the client (and end user) as its their IP and the point is they benefit. Sportemon Go who Hibs went with, they charged an 8% royalty on any sale for themselves. This is where NFTs get a bad name because they are profiteering off the sales/resales of the business. It also means the higher they put the floor price ie if they bid high on their own tokens, they can make more money. It was a racket and a half. We dont do that as we have 0 incentive or interest in the price going up or down. So if prices go up it benefits the fan who sold it and the club who get a fee but we dont take any money from that sale. And we cannot manipulate prices like they were doing to make money off the club or the fans. I still don't get what problem the NFTs are solving. We already have season tickets, we already have air miles and other points based systems. As far as I can tell everything you're talking about works just as well without NFTs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Smithee said: I still don't get what problem the NFTs are solving. We already have season tickets, we already have air miles and other points based systems. As far as I can tell everything you're talking about works just as well without NFTs Several Its a way of owning and certifying ownership of digital items. Ie Gaming skin in fortnightcan only be used in Fortnite Is on a central server and is only "yours" under condition Black market issues Fortnight skin as NFT Owned fully by you Rights to trade or rent your item Cross compatibility so skin can be rendered accross multiple platforms. Anti counterfeiting Problem. Whisky industry loses 6 billion a year to counterfeit bottles Solution: NFT certificate for each bottle. Metadata can validate its genuine whisky or not. Anti Crime Problem: Pirate tour guides are ripping people off in Cancun Solution: NFT based validation of guides that can be checked and verified Car theft: validate vin number and id I could go on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WageThief Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, That thing you do said: Several Its a way of owning and certifying ownership of digital items. Problem. Whisky industry loses 6 billion a year to counterfeit bottles Solution: NFT certificate for each bottle. Metadata can validate its genuine whisky or not. Anti Crime Problem: Pirate tour guides are ripping people off in Cancun Solution: NFT based validation of guides that can be checked and verified Car theft: validate vin number and id I could go on... Are whisky, tour guides, and cars now digital items? I think a centralised authority would be better in all cases. Fair enough you perhaps cannot get/rely on one in Cancun but I'd rather validate the vin number on the DVLA website than pay miners endless fees. Bitcoin is doing well today again I see.... Edited June 30, 2022 by WageThief . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 16 hours ago, That thing you do said: Basically utility means what the NFT can be created to do. So simple example, Bannockburn. We call NFTs "Living Souvenirs" I go to the museum and am particularly interested in armour. In most peoples mind if I can get an nft of a suit of armour, then i have that image and not alot else, but thats not the case. With my armour NFT - i can have it rendered as wearable in multiple games/online worlds for my avatar - i can be given personalised UX around extra content - the nft can be set to also represent a ticket to a virtual event, making interaction before, during and after a real world visit. - on chain metrics can be used to identify holders and create for examples offers to go to a real life battle reenactment because i hold the nft. - crafting. Simple example, i hold a hammer and anvil nft this can be recognised and crafted into "Blacksmith Shop" . So you can gamify and reward/incentivise crafting - ours are created on a carbon negative network. NFTs are immutable on the blockchain so we are (for example) working with distillers to authenticate whisky and in Mexico certify tour guides through NFT and Metadata. NFT season ticket: Advantages- can be temporarily rented using smart contracts, so if im away my cousin can use it. This of course is transferred for a fee to the club. Reduced costs vs plastic cards. Our NFTs cost about 8p raw price to make Provides passive income to the fans Opportunity for rewards, offers, content dropped to your season ticket address. Airdrop key match moments to keep as a souvenir. Add to own digital gallery, samsung phone for a personalised highlights collection. Gamify- rewards for going to each away ground Community activities Courses in innovation centre. Weve work with schools elsewhere in Scotland. Link your season ticket to samsung health and STEPN or similar that rewards you for exercise. Literally get paid to walk to the ground . Sxratching the surface here but its all doable now. Please stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Please stop Wish granted. See you in the metaverse within 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanyl Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, That thing you do said: Wish granted. See you in the metaverse within 5 years. Metaverse is the funniest thing in the world. Facebook twats spending fortunes on shit that's been about since June 23, 2003 the date Second Life was launched. Are big companies still wasting money on building second life shit? thought not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 8 hours ago, Swanyl said: Metaverse is the funniest thing in the world. Facebook twats spending fortunes on shit that's been about since June 23, 2003 the date Second Life was launched. Are big companies still wasting money on building second life shit? thought not. The metaverse just doesn’t appeal to me at all, stuck in a room on a laptop spending money on digital clothes / cars etc. Would rather engage in face to face contact with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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