Archie Battersbee life support to be switched off

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Court of Appeal judges rule that doctors can lawfully stop providing life support to Archie.

 

Breaking news on Sky News.

[iantjambo]

Must be horrible for his parents.

 

It’s easy to just say “they should just let him go”. 
Not easy if it’s your child though.

[davemclaren]

5 hours ago, iantjambo said:

Must be horrible for his parents.

 

It’s easy to just say “they should just let him go”. 
Not easy if it’s your child though.

No It isn’t, it must be hell for them. However the court has to rule on what it believes to be in the best interests of Archie.  

[Jambo-Jimbo]

46 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

No It isn’t, it must be hell for them. However the court has to rule on what it believes to be in the best interests of Archie.  

 

It was reported on the news that that's the 3rd court case, twice at the court of appeal which has ruled that it's in Archies best interests to stop providing life support.  Now the family are going on about Archie's religious beliefs, something which up until now hasn't really been mentioned before, and I suspect that's what's behind all of this, not what's in Archies best interests but religion.  His mother said several weeks ago, that if god wanted Archie to die then he'd die.

 

I really think that religion & religious beliefs are getting in the way of Archies best interests here.

[davemclaren]

28 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It was reported on the news that that's the 3rd court case, twice at the court of appeal which has ruled that it's in Archies best interests to stop providing life support.  Now the family are going on about Archie's religious beliefs, something which up until now hasn't really been mentioned before, and I suspect that's what's behind all of this, not what's in Archies best interests but religion.  His mother said several weeks ago, that if god wanted Archie to die then he'd die.

 

I really think that religion & religious beliefs are getting in the way of Archies best interests here.

They are being supported by the ‘Christian Legal Centre’ so I reckon you are correct. I don’t want to sound harsh but surely God ( if you believe in him ) will make that decision with or without life support technology. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

They are being supported by the ‘Christian Legal Centre’ so I reckon you are correct. I don’t want to sound harsh but surely God ( if you believe in him ) will make that decision with or without life support technology. 

 

It's not being harsh tbh.

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

 His mother said several weeks ago, that if god wanted Archie to die then he'd die.

 

I really think that religion & religious beliefs are getting in the way of Archies best interests here.

 

Turn the machines off and let her "God" save the lad then.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Now the family are going on about Archie's religious beliefs, something which up until now hasn't really been mentioned before, and I suspect that's wha

I didnt know the bible mob were now involved.  Seriously .  They really are the lowest of the low.  I had never heard his parents mention their religious beliefs before?  They are very vulnerable just now and Id hate to think those " Christians" are taking advantage of that to suit their own agenda. Sickening really.  I did notice earlier that the mother was quite dismissive of the medics and hospital who have taken care of Archie for these last few months.  Not a good look but I suppose shes projecting her anger and frustration out but at the wrong people.  The longer they cling on the worse the longer it takes the grieving process.   Plus lets not forget the poor child at the heart of it all. 

[John Findlay]

Here's the thing. If Archie's parents are the  Christians they are purporting to be, then they should have no fear of their son dying, as heaven is allegedly a far happier place to be than down here on Earth. As alleged Christians they should know this.

[iantjambo]

His life support will be turned off at 2pm tomorrow 😔 

[Francis Albert]

On 25/07/2022 at 14:09, iantjambo said:

Must be horrible for his parents.

 

It’s easy to just say “they should just let him go”. 
Not easy if it’s your child though.

I think it would be very easy if your child was brain dead and never going to recover as confirmed by multiple doctors and multiple court cases.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I see the UN have now been involved by the family.

[trotter]

17 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I see the UN have now been involved by the family.

It's some voluntary body regarding disability rights. Rather like the religious angle previously, it appears the family are now claiming that he is disabled and should be treated as such. 

 

Such a horrible case for all concerned, and you can empathize why the family are trying every avenue to prevent wothdrawal of care, but the simple fact is that numerous professionals and experts have pronounced him brain stem dead, with no chance of recovery. 

[Ray Gin]

FFS. He's not disabled, he's brain dead. His organs are only being kept ticking over by machines. 

 

I'd hate to think of my family behaving in such a way if I was ever in a similar condition. Even if there was a chance of recovery to a level where I was able to breathe for myself, I'd be wanting those machines turned off rather than live the rest of my life severely brain-damaged, needing round-the-clock care. I can think of nothing more cruel than being kept alive in such a state.

 

I would never dream of inflicting this on a loved one.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

FFS. He's not disabled, he's brain dead. His organs are only being kept ticking over by machines. 

 

I'd hate to think of my family behaving in such a way if I was ever in a similar condition. Even if there was a chance of recovery to a level where I was able to breathe for myself, I'd be wanting those machines turned off rather than live the rest of my life severely brain-damaged, needing round-the-clock care. I can think of nothing more cruel than being kept alive in such a state.

 

I would never dream of inflicting this on a loved one.

Well said . Even a minor brain injury can have catastrophic affects on a person . They can be severely disabled for the rest of their lives . It’s about quality of life not just “ living “ . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

The more angry the family get the more difficult it will take them to get over the grieving process. , if you ever do regarding the death of a child 

[AlimOzturk]

The kid is dead in every way that matters. As sad as it is the family will have to let go of this. All it is doing is prolonging the misery. Honour the little kids memory by putting their effort into preventing anything like this happening ever again. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

FFS. He's not disabled, he's brain dead. His organs are only being kept ticking over by machines. 

 

I'd hate to think of my family behaving in such a way if I was ever in a similar condition. Even if there was a chance of recovery to a level where I was able to breathe for myself, I'd be wanting those machines turned off rather than live the rest of my life severely brain-damaged, needing round-the-clock care. I can think of nothing more cruel than being kept alive in such a state.

 

I would never dream of inflicting this on a loved one.

 

Both myself & Mrs JJ have made a vow to each other and our grown-up children have also been told of our wishes, that in the event of either of us being in this type of state......to turn the machines off, as neither of us want to live if severely brain-damaged.

[trotter]

Judges reject appeal to give the UN time to look into the case. Not sure what happens now, as the life support was supposed to be switched off at 1400, I imagine there will be time to allow the family to say goodbye, etc. Hopefully not for any other publicity-seeking gimps to jump in and offer faux legal advice and hope to the parents.

A point someone made on another forum: if the mother is correct and he is still alive and recovering, switching the machines off will prove that one way or the other. A little bit too crude for my liking, but I can sort of see the point in that statement. 

[micole]

Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't.....it must be awful for the family. Can see both sides of the situation, it's all so sad.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

59 minutes ago, micole said:

Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't.....it must be awful for the family. Can see both sides of the situation, it's all so sad.

 

yup - the usual experts stating what the outcome should be - no grey areas

 

there have been ‘miracle’ recoveries from being declared brain bead - not sure how they compare to this case but looks like a recent one they were about to start operating to use the organs - hoping to play football again and go running apparently 

 

even if there are marked differences there are some similarities eg the doctors said there was no hope of recovery - by statistics would infer people who had their machines switched-off could have recovered

 

in future years due to hopeful advancements in knowledge this group will probably be identifiable

 

thats not to say decisions shouldn’t be made on over-whelming probability based on current knowledge just highlights that the parents understandable may be hanging on to the hope that their child is the one in 10,000 or whatever the number is and so wanting more time

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by MoncurMacdonaldMercer

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Life support due to end at 11am today, unless the family take the case to the European Court of Human Rights, however there are no guarantees they will get involved as it was reported on the news that the ECHR tend not to get involved in cases like this.

The other option they said on the news was to take Archie abroad to continue life support.

[joondalupjambo]

It must to costing The Christian Centre an absolute fortune.  I wonder who funds them. Oh just checked and partly via the UK National Lottery Community Fund I think by the looks of it.  Interesting.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Delayed again. 

[Francis Albert]

The MSM haven very coy about the "on line game" that made him brain dead. Seems absurd expenditure on medical and legal resources In the circumstances.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The MSM haven very coy about the "on line game" that made him brain dead. Seems absurd expenditure on medical and legal resources In the circumstances.

 

Of course they have been, don't want to publicise it, as there will be other idiots who'll try it as well.

[Francis Albert]

On other hand might alert parents to what their children might be up to. 

And put pressure on tiktok and the like to stop providing a platform for these games.

[Tazio]

Have the parents thought that if he is kept alive long enough the minute they are dead the switch flicks. 

[Bindy Badgy]

Off to the European Court of Human Rights now.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Bindy Badgy

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, Bindy Badgy said:

Off to the European Court of Human Rights now.

This is getting really painful . The parents are really doing themselves no favours . It’s a tragic case and I feel for them but it’s now inhumane what’s happening to this poor boy . Let him go 

[Francis Albert]

On 13/06/2022 at 13:08, JudyJudyJudy said:

True and I noticed that a “ Christian “ group has got their oar in on the situation. Taking advantages of the parents vulnerabilities at the current time for their own agenda . 

I wonder a bit about how "Christian" it is to spend huge mounts to maintain one brain dead child on "life" support (and on court cases to prevent that support being removed) while the money involved could easily prevent the deaths and/or  immeasurably improve the lives of hundred, probably  thousands of other children.

[Francis Albert]

On 13/06/2022 at 13:08, JudyJudyJudy said:

True and I noticed that a “ Christian “ group has got their oar in on the situation. Taking advantages of the parents vulnerabilities at the current time for their own agenda . 

I wonder a bit about how "Christian" it is to spend huge mounts to maintain one brain dead child on "life" support (and on court cases to prevent that support being removed) while the money involved could easily prevent the deaths and/or  immeasurably improve the lives of hundred, probably  thousands of other children.

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I wonder a bit about how "Christian" it is to spend huge mounts to maintain one brain dead child on "life" support (and on court cases to prevent that support being removed) while the money involved could easily prevent the deaths and/or  immeasurably improve the lives of hundred, probably  thousands of other children.

They are taken advantage of vulnerable parents at this current time to further their own agenda . Shameful really . 

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

This is getting really painful . The parents are really doing themselves no favours . It’s a tragic case and I feel for them but it’s now inhumane what’s happening to this poor boy . Let him go 

Fortunately I don't think he will have any idea about what's happening to him. If the Dr's are right then he is already dead. He can't be harmed anymore. He isn't being "put through" anything. Unless I guess you are a religious sort who feels he is being held back. Everything that's happening is happening to his family, who are putting themselves through it. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

On other hand might alert parents to what their children might be up to. 

And put pressure on tiktok and the like to stop providing a platform for these games.

 

There is that I suppose, no easy answer really.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I wonder a bit about how "Christian" it is to spend huge mounts to maintain one brain dead child on "life" support (and on court cases to prevent that support being removed) while the money involved could easily prevent the deaths and/or  immeasurably improve the lives of hundred, probably  thousands of other children.

 

Indeed, think of the thousands of other children who could be saved in famine hit Africa, if the money was spent on food, rather than pointless court cases.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Heard his Mother mention that they'd had 2 offers from (hospital/clinic's) in Japan & Turkey who say that they will continue treatment/life support.

The obvious question here is who is going to pay for that, I certainly hope the family don't expect the NHS to pick up the bill, notwithstanding the logistical problem of transporting a patient in that condition.

[Herbert.]

You wouldn't let a dog live like this so why your child? It's cruel.

[Shooter McGavin]

The family need to listen to the professionals in this scenario.

 

If the doctors are telling them it’s for the best, then it’s for the best.

 

[davemclaren]

All done now. ECHR won’t rule on it. 

[Zico]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I wonder a bit about how "Christian" it is to spend huge mounts to maintain one brain dead child on "life" support (and on court cases to prevent that support being removed) while the money involved could easily prevent the deaths and/or  immeasurably improve the lives of hundred, probably  thousands of other children.

In a similar vein, it would seem more ‘Christian’ to have let his organs save the lives of other children rather than let them necrotise (which is what’s happened/happening). Let the boy die with some dignity rather than as some plaything in a media circus. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Indeed, think of the thousands of other children who could be saved in famine hit Africa, if the money was spent on food, rather than pointless court cases.

or smokers or fat folk, older folk with limited quality and quantity of life, unvaccinated, rock climbers, show jumpers, alcoholics, drug people, wind surfers, national hunt jockeys, boxers, vaccinating people didn’t need it, the cost of lockdown on countries with unstable food supply, gender realignment, nhs nose-jobs, etc etc

 

all these things and more an unjustifiable opportunity cost to saving children in Africa in some peoples opinions as well as of course “pointless court cases”

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, Zico said:

In a similar vein, it would seem more ‘Christian’ to have let his organs save the lives of other children rather than let them necrotise (which is what’s happened/happening). Let the boy die with some dignity rather than as some plaything in a media circus. 

yup in a recent case they were about to do that and the ‘dead’ patient woke up just in time

 

 

hoping to start running and playing football again

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

8 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

The family need to listen to the professionals in this scenario.

 

If the doctors are telling them it’s for the best, then it’s for the best.

 

genuine question - if a doctor or professional like a lawyer or someone tells you something do you just accept it (blindly) ?
 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Indeed, think of the thousands of other children who could be saved in famine hit Africa, if the money was spent on food, rather than pointless court cases.

…… firework displays, footballers exorbitant wages, formula 1, royal pageantry, animal shelters ……….

 

more money that could be re-directed to save the starving children in Africa

 

1984 (?) live aid and before great effort that it was did it not work ? - seemed to raise mega money at the time

 

 

[JFK-1]

45 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

1984 (?) live aid

 

1985

[Shooter McGavin]

2 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

genuine question - if a doctor or professional like a lawyer or someone tells you something do you just accept it (blindly) ?
 

 

I’m sure it takes around 10 years to become a fully qualified GP, about 15 years to become a fully qualified surgeon and about 6-7 years to become a fully qualified lawyer.

 

So yes.

[Dazo]

14 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I’m sure it takes around 10 years to become a fully qualified GP, about 15 years to become a fully qualified surgeon and about 6-7 years to become a fully qualified lawyer.

 

So yes.

Like all professions there will be good, bad, lazy and negligent which result in mistakes sometimes catastrophic. Blindly accepting probably isn’t the way to go. I’d suggest you just made up that response. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

or smokers or fat folk, older folk with limited quality and quantity of life, unvaccinated, rock climbers, show jumpers, alcoholics, drug people, wind surfers, national hunt jockeys, boxers, vaccinating people didn’t need it, the cost of lockdown on countries with unstable food supply, gender realignment, nhs nose-jobs, etc etc

 

all these things and more an unjustifiable opportunity cost to saving children in Africa in some peoples opinions as well as of course “pointless court cases”

 

 

 

 

 

Or your wages, everytime you go on holiday or buy a car, that money could go to starving Africans, the list would be endless, wouldn't it.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 hours ago, davemclaren said:

All done now. ECHR won’t rule on it. 

 

The ECHR rarely if indeed they have ever got involved in these kind of cases.