Orange Walk EH today

[Unknown user]

48 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Trying to offer the benefit iof the doubt but why does the lodge feel the need to dress up and 'walk the queen's highway' when they know the arseholes it attracts and the mayhem it causes? 

Could there be a better way to preserve or protect their heritage? 

 

Arseholes don't mind attracting arseholes.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

It's dying out big time imo. When I was a kid, even the local marches in Glasgow had thousands following. Now, you're lucky to see a hundred.

 

There's an orange lodge on my street and they had a walk for the jubilee last weekend, there was about ten people following it. Only needed one copper escorting.

 

Another few years and it'll hopefully be done for good.

 

 

No chance.

 

Once Ireland properly starts to unify the knuckle draggers will scuttle off to find kindred spirits in the hinterlands of West Lothian and Lanarkshire. 

 

Sadly these arseholes will be poisoning Scottish culture fir many years to come. 

[The Gorgie]

20 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I have lived in West Lothian all my life and was brought up in Polbeth.

I have witnessed the mayhem the  'tradition' has caused in those communities since I was a nipper, mate.

I honestly can't comment on your experiences but as the post is about today march there was no mayhem. In terms of violence of course.

[Punks No Deid]

11 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

You stay in Chapleton also known as Giro Street. You know Rab Carroll? Sure he was a Celtic Man. 

It was just some of Chappy Drive that was called Giro Street back in the day Sof98. It’s changed a fair bit now. I don’t live there any more but I’m pretty sure Rab stays in The Drive. 

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No chance.

 

Once Ireland properly starts to unify the knuckle draggers will scuttle off to find kindred spirits in the hinterlands of West Lothian and Lanarkshire. 

 

Sadly these arseholes will be poisoning Scottish culture fir many years to come. 

 

Ironically, an independent Scotland could well see a resurgence in this nonsense. 

[Rudy T]

Basically the members and associated and unassimilated hangers on hate Catholics, I’d love someone to tell me how thats acceptable in todays society. (And I know their counterparts on the other side of the fence have similar views)

 

If this was a group of people openly showing their hatred for Jews or Muslims, as an example, would it be tolerated?

[Taffin]

What's the 30 second elevator explanation of it? I don't actually know what it's about, or why some consider it offensive?

 

My layman's understanding was just that they were Protestants celebrating their beliefs. Which doesn't seem problematic, so I'm guessing there's more to it.

[The Gorgie]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Basically the members and associated and unassimilated hangers on hate Catholics, I’d love someone to tell me how thats acceptable in todays society. (And I know their counterparts on the other side of the fence have similar views)

 

If this was a group of people openly showing their hatred for Jews or Muslims, as an example, would it be tolerated?

Wrong. We are pro Protestant. Today was a celebration, i get people don't like the royals. That's life. Everyone thinks its about hating catholics. That's very lazy imo. As I've said earlier in the tread, I personally blame the bands. I'll will never hide im an orange man, however I hate UVF/UDA songs while parading. 

[Jeffros Furios]

5 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Wrong. We are pro Protestant. Today was a celebration, i get people don't like the royals. That's life. Everyone thinks its about hating catholics. That's very lazy imo. As I've said earlier in the tread, I personally blame the bands. I'll will never hide im an orange man, however I hate UVF/UDA songs while parading. 

Was Bernie there today? 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Jeffros Furios

[The Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Was Bernie there today? 

Sorry don't know who that is?

Edited June 11, 2022 by Sir Craig Gordon

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What's the 30 second elevator explanation of it? I don't actually know what it's about, or why some consider it offensive?

 

My layman's understanding was just that they were Protestants celebrating their beliefs. Which doesn't seem problematic, so I'm guessing there's more to it.

 

There are no Bible readings, they don't stop at kirks on the way past. There'll be hardly any of them at church tomorrow, they're not bearing crosses, or handing out money to the poor, their banners don't preach Christian forgiveness.

 

Protestantism in this case is really just another word for **** catholics, **** independence and GSTQ.

 

Never forget the general secretary of the OLS saying that they'd become a paramilitary organisation in the event of Scottish independence.

"The Orange Lodge would become a paramilitary force, if you like. It obviously implies a recourse to arms ... we'd have a group of people who would be pro union."

 

"Celebrating Protestantism" lol

[Weakened Offender]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are no Bible readings, they don't stop at kirks on the way past. There'll be hardly any of them at church tomorrow, they're not bearing crosses, or handing out money to the poor, their banners don't preach Christian forgiveness.

 

Protestantism in this case is really just another word for **** catholics, **** independence and GSTQ.

 

Never forget the general secretary of the OLS saying that they'd become a paramilitary organisation in the event of Scottish independence.

"The Orange Lodge would become a paramilitary force, if you like. It obviously implies a recourse to arms ... we'd have a group of people who would be pro union."

 

"Celebrating Protestantism" lol

 

Yup. 

[Weakened Offender]

12 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Was Bernie there today? 

 

😁

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Spot on. Strange that in 2022 Scotland has more or less.accepted that racism, homophobia etc is unacceptable and even if people still carry those views they know know that expressing them publicly generally has consequences. That is credit to all parties who have governed since devolution. 

However, despite this particular administration's decent record of advancing a tolerant society they absolutely will not tackle sectarianism and  both disgusting sides know it. It is one of the few things and possibly only thing about Scotland I am genuinely ashamed of. 

Good post.   tbf, the SG has made some efforts to at least dampen down  outbreaks of Scotland's shame - but unsurprisingly the Scottish football meeja just turn a blind eye since its a major reason why Celtic & Rangers exist in the first place, and nothing should be done which might hinder their glorious exploits in Europe on behalf of Scotland.      

 

 

 

[Taffin]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are no Bible readings, they don't stop at kirks on the way past. There'll be hardly any of them at church tomorrow, they're not bearing crosses, or handing out money to the poor, their banners don't preach Christian forgiveness.

 

Protestantism in this case is really just another word for **** catholics, **** independence and GSTQ.

 

Never forget the general secretary of the OLS saying that they'd become a paramilitary organisation in the event of Scottish independence.

"The Orange Lodge would become a paramilitary force, if you like. It obviously implies a recourse to arms ... we'd have a group of people who would be pro union."

 

"Celebrating Protestantism" lol

 

If they're not celebrating, what are they doing? What are they doing that's offensive?

 

I've never really thought about it until reading this thread, and I've never seen them. I find marching for a cause weird in general, more so for religion. 

 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, Hmfc1965 said:

I don't know is the short answer,  but that's individuals rather than an organisational thing.

As you say I can't access the link you posted but I'd be surprised at any great link between the British Fascists and the Orange Order. 

 

I'm not suggesting individuals who happen to be Orangemen. I'm suggesting that individuals built upon their connections within the Orange Lodge, using the Orange Lodge to find others of like mind and act in coordination with them. You can say that's not official Orange business but again that's splitting hairs.

[The Gorgie]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are no Bible readings, they don't stop at kirks on the way past. There'll be hardly any of them at church tomorrow, they're not bearing crosses, or handing out money to the poor, their banners don't preach Christian forgiveness.

 

Protestantism in this case is really just another word for **** catholics, **** independence and GSTQ.

 

Never forget the general secretary of the OLS saying that they'd become a paramilitary organisation in the event of Scottish independence.

"The Orange Lodge would become a paramilitary force, if you like. It obviously implies a recourse to arms ... we'd have a group of people who would be pro union."

 

"Celebrating Protestantism" lol

Can you confirm there were no bible readings today? I can confirm it happened in the meadows on a stage today in front of thousands off people. Can you confirm we didn't donate to the poor?  No you can't. We had many charity buckets all day that would have raised hundreds, maybe thousands. It's very easy for you to sit there and say its about hating catholics. Lazy, very very lazy. 

[Irufushi]

1 hour ago, spirt of 98 said:

Bunch of saddos 

Pop along next time, you’d love it. 

[Weakened Offender]

1 minute ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Can you confirm there were no bible readings today? I can confirm it happened in the meadows on a stage today in front of thousands off people. Can you confirm we didn't donate to the poor?  No you can't. We had many charity buckets all day that would have raised hundreds, maybe thousands. It's very easy for you to sit there and say its about hating catholics. Lazy, very very lazy. 

 

What were the charities? 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Can you confirm there were no bible readings today? I can confirm it happened in the meadows on a stage today in front of thousands off people. Can you confirm we didn't donate to the poor?  No you can't. We had many charity buckets all day that would have raised hundreds, maybe thousands. It's very easy for you to sit there and say its about hating catholics. Lazy, very very lazy. 

 

No it's not, what time you in church tomorrow?

[Lone Striker]

24 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Wrong. We are pro Protestant. Today was a celebration, i get people don't like the royals. That's life. Everyone thinks its about hating catholics. That's very lazy imo. As I've said earlier in the tread, I personally blame the bands. I'll will never hide im an orange man, however I hate UVF/UDA songs while parading. 

Respect to you  for putting your head above the parapet on here.   When you say you're "pro-Protestant", what does that  mean ?     My vague understanding of history in the 1500's / 1600s is that a Catholic usurped the English throne, which led to more Catholic kings & queens in England & Scotland - which led to huge bloodshed throughout Europe in the effort to restore the monarchy of Britain to Protestantism.  

 

If thats a reasonable summary, all the blood shed by folk in a long-running religeous dispute over a figurehead  far away (who probably cared not a jot about the lives of the folk fighting for or against) hardly seems like something to still be celebrating 400 years later.   Does anyone care where today's Royal family go to church... or which church ?    

 

What would it mean to you if the future King here started attending a different denomination each Sunday ?   

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

No they weren't, they were named after Billy Fullerton

 

All of the sources of any repute I can find online say they were named after "King Billy" but most of those are magazine articles without a citation. Wikipedia says the same and cites a history textbook that I don't have access to.

 

As to Fullteron's connections to both Oswald Mosley and the Orange walks, here's an archived Scotsman article:

 

Quote

Fullerton, who died in 1962, founded and led the Billy Boys - which had 800 members at its height - during the 1920s and 1930s, before joining Oswald Mosely’s British Fascists and starting a Glasgow branch of the Ku Klux Klan.

. . .

However, while the gangs may be gone, the song of the Protestant Billy Boys still reverberates round the terraces of Ibrox, and there are many who remember their fights against the Catholic Norman Conks gang, such as the particularly bitter clashes at Fullerton’s wedding and the riot when he led an Orange march into the Conks’ stronghold in 1935.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070312002358/http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=822932004

[The Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

What were the charities? 

Scottish widows and a charity that puts people through college/uni I believe. There were more but that's the ones I put into.

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

All of the sources of any repute I can find online say they were named after "King Billy" but most of those are magazine articles without a citation. Wikipedia says the same and cites a history textbook that I don't have access to.

 

As to Fullteron's connections to both Oswald Mosley and the Orange walks, here's an archived Scotsman article:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20070312002358/http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=822932004

 

It's been a while but I vaguely remember having more joy looking for info on Glasgow's razor gangs than the man himself - I maybe searched for Norman Conks or something. Might even have been a documentary TBH, but the King Billy thing was (as I remember) retrofitted.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Smithee

[Watt-Zeefuik]

57 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What's the 30 second elevator explanation of it? I don't actually know what it's about, or why some consider it offensive?

 

My layman's understanding was just that they were Protestants celebrating their beliefs. Which doesn't seem problematic, so I'm guessing there's more to it.

 

I know naught of today's specific march other than what my spouse told me, who was there. As for it being about being pro-Protestantism, I will again repeat that my spouse is a Presbyterian pastor who is currently at New College studying for her Doctor of Ministry degree, and the march utterly turned her stomach. Beyond that I won't say about today's march, because that's all I know.

 

However, the quickest explanation of why it's an incredibly daft thing to do today is to point out that the marches originated in Northern Ireland to celebrate the victory of forces friendly to William of Orange over local, largely Catholic resistance. Some of the fiercest fighting happened in Derry, and as a celebration the Oranges started a  parade around the old city wall that had been defended. These marches often took on an explicitly anti-Catholic tone (because of course they did, anyway).

 

One such walk in Derry in 1972 encountered a peaceful protest by local Catholics designed to stop the march from going through an almost entirely Catholic neighborhood. Rather than divert the march because it's a daft and hateful tradition, the police came in and shot 26 people, killing 14. The immediate, direct result of this was the founding of the modern IRA and the beginning of the Troubles.

 

That anyone is out trying to re-start this utter nonsense and claiming it's just about celebrating Protestantism makes me utterly sick. You want to celebrate Protestantism, go the **** to church on Sunday morning.

 

EDIT: If it's just about celebrating Protestantism, what TF does that have to do with the Queen or the Union Jack?

 

Again as a Presbyterian deacon myself, let me say does it **** celebrate Protestantism as a whole. It celebrates British Christian nationalism. (Which I would personally call heretical and borderline demonic, but again, that's me.)

Edited June 11, 2022 by Led Tasso

[The Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Respect to you  for putting your head above the parapet on here.   When you say you're "pro-Protestant", what does that  mean ?     My vague understanding of history in the 1500's / 1600s is that a Catholic usurped the English throne, which led to more Catholic kings & queens in England & Scotland - which led to huge bloodshed throughout Europe in the effort to restore the monarchy of Britain to Protestantism.  

 

If thats a reasonable summary, all the blood shed by folk in a long-running religeous dispute over a figurehead  far away (who probably cared not a jot about the lives of the folk fighting for or against) hardly seems like something to still be celebrating 400 years later.   Does anyone care where today's Royal family go to church... or which church ?    

 

What would it mean to you if the future King here started attending a different denomination each Sunday ?   

Can I say first of all say, all this blood shed you mentioned. The Battle of the boyne was a very bloodless battle, in terms of battles goes. It's not about jumping on fenians like people think. I'll be straight up I like the queen, and I like william. I don't care much for the rest of them.

[The Gorgie]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

No it's not, what time you in church tomorrow?

It will please you im not attending. Taking the wee man to the swimming pool instead.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Sir Craig Gordon

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I know naught of today's specific march other than what my spouse told me, who was there. As for it being about being pro-Protestantism, I will again repeat that my spouse is a Presbyterian pastor who is currently at New College studying for her Doctor of Ministry degree, and the march utterly turned her stomach. Beyond that I won't say about today's march, because that's all I know.

 

However, the quickest explanation of why it's an incredibly daft thing to do today is to point out that the marches originated in Northern Ireland to celebrate the victory of forces friendly to William of Orange over local, largely Catholic resistance. Some of the fiercest fighting happened in Derry, and as a celebration the Oranges started a  parade around the old city wall that had been defended. These marches often took on an explicitly anti-Catholic tone (because of course they did, anyway).

 

One such walk in Derry in 1972 encountered a peaceful protest by local Catholics designed to stop the march from going through an almost entirely Catholic neighborhood. Rather than divert the march because it's a daft and hateful tradition, the police came in and shot 26 people, killing 14. The immediate, direct result of this was the founding of the modern IRA and the beginning of the Troubles.

 

That anyone is out trying to re-start this utter nonsense and claiming it's just about celebrating Protestantism makes me utterly sick. You want to celebrate Protestantism, go the **** to church on Sunday morning.

 

I think maybe less going to church on a Sunday morning all round would be a good thing. I doubt marches to celebrate defeating a competing religious sect is unique to this group.

 

The concept is completely foreign to me; I've never know what they're promoting or why other people don't like it...beyond knowing in Scotland that it was a Rangers/Celtic thing and sectarian in some way

 

 

Edit: thanks for the breakdown of what it's about. Appreciate it 👍

Edited June 11, 2022 by Taffin

[Weakened Offender]

4 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I know naught of today's specific march other than what my spouse told me, who was there. As for it being about being pro-Protestantism, I will again repeat that my spouse is a Presbyterian pastor who is currently at New College studying for her Doctor of Ministry degree, and the march utterly turned her stomach. Beyond that I won't say about today's march, because that's all I know.

 

I'm more inclined to believe this than SCG's account of what today was all about. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

19 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Can you confirm there were no bible readings today? I can confirm it happened in the meadows on a stage today in front of thousands off people. Can you confirm we didn't donate to the poor?  No you can't. We had many charity buckets all day that would have raised hundreds, maybe thousands. It's very easy for you to sit there and say its about hating catholics. Lazy, very very lazy. 

Here is an image from the march today.

 

I see symbols representing the United Kingdom, the Queen, William of Orange, the Orange Lodges, and the British military.

 

I do not see any symbolic representation of Martin Luther, John Calvin, or John Knox or anything having to do with the actual theology and ecclesiology of Protestantism.

 

It looks for all the world like a nationalist monarchist parade. Where is the "Protestantism" here, except tied up in figures like William of Orange?

 

[Weakened Offender]

5 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

It will please you im not attending. Taking the wee man to the swimming pool instead.

 

Splash Bash? 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

It will please you im not attending. Taking the wee man to the swimming pool instead.

It'll demonstrate my point certainly.

[Rudy T]

54 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Wrong. We are pro Protestant. Today was a celebration, i get people don't like the royals. That's life. Everyone thinks its about hating catholics. That's very lazy imo. As I've said earlier in the tread, I personally blame the bands. I'll will never hide im an orange man, however I hate UVF/UDA songs while parading. 

So in general those participating and others watching don’t hate Catholics, and we’re there solely to celebrate Protestantism?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Now if they re-enacted Jenny Geddes throwing her stool at St. Giles, now that could be fun.

[The Gorgie]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

It'll demonstrate my point certainly.

 

2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Here is an image from the march today.

 

I see symbols representing the United Kingdom, the Queen, William of Orange, the Orange Lodges, and the British military.

 

I do not see any symbolic representation of Martin Luther, John Calvin, or John Knox or anything having to do with the actual theology and ecclesiology of Protestantism.

 

It looks for all the world like a nationalist monarchist parade. Where is the "Protestantism" here, except tied up in figures like William of Orange?

 

Do you have photos of every lodge and band?

[Lone Striker]

3 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

Can I say first of all say, all this blood shed you mentioned. The Battle of the boyne was a very bloodless battle, in terms of battles goes. It's not about jumping on fenians like people think. I'll be straight up I like the queen, and I like william. I don't care much for the rest of them.

Thanks, but your reply suggests that your prime concern is Ireland rather than the wider Protestant v Catholic monarchy battles what were raging in Europe.     I was simply trying to understand what any of that would mean to you today or in the near future - as a way of trying to understand your "pro-Protestant" comment.      In  a nutshell, what does it matter ?

 

 

[The Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

So in general those participating and others watching don’t hate Catholics, and we’re there solely to celebrate Protestantism?

For me its not about hating Catholics. I've already said there is arseholes in the lodge. It happens.

[William H. Bonney]

Wasn't king William's biggest allie the pope? 

Perhaps the orange order should include pictures of him in their marches. 

 

[The Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Thanks, but your reply suggests that your prime concern is Ireland rather than the wider Protestant v Catholic monarchy battles what were raging in Europe.     I was simply trying to understand what any of that would mean to you today or in the near future - as a way of trying to understand your "pro-Protestant" comment.      In  a nutshell, what does it matter ?

 

 

We are protestants, we are loyal to Britain, loyal to the crown, i don't get to church as much as i like or as much Id want. Truthfully I've got no protestant v catholic agenda. However im British and proud. In my opinion football brings out the hatred.

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

 

Do you have photos of every lodge and band?

Do you have a list of the loyalist songs they play that you disapprove of?

[Unknown user]

Just now, Sir Craig Gordon said:

We are protestants, we are loyal to Britain, loyal to the crown, i don't get to church as much as i like or as much Id want. Truthfully I've got no protestant v catholic agenda. However im British and proud. In my opinion football brings out the hatred.

 

What have Britain and the crown got to do with your religion?

[The Gorgie]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Do you have a list of the loyalist songs they play that you disapprove of?

No, however I've already said im not a fan of uvf/yeah songs while on parade, no really much more i can say.

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

What have Britain and the crown got to do with your religion?

You are aware the British crown are protestant?

Edited June 11, 2022 by Sir Craig Gordon

[The Gorgie]

21 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Splash Bash? 

The wee man will be game

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

You are aware the British crown are protestant?

 

There are plenty of protestants who aren't into Britain and the crown, so this isn't about protestantism.

 

It's a loyalist, anti Catholic organisation, always has been. It's not a decent organisation with some arseholes, it's an arsehole organisation with some good guys.

 

In my opinion, of course.

[Nucky Thompson]

2 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

It's dying out big time imo. When I was a kid, even the local marches in Glasgow had thousands following. Now, you're lucky to see a hundred.

 

There's an orange lodge on my street and they had a walk for the jubilee last weekend, there was about ten people following it. Only needed one copper escorting.

 

Another few years and it'll hopefully be done for good.

 

 

Correct answer. I used to know loads who were into this, but they have all grown up.

It's a dying trend

[Lone Striker]

8 minutes ago, Sir Craig Gordon said:

No, however I've already said im not a fan of uvf/yeah songs while on parade, no really much more i can say.

You are aware the British crown are protestant?

Now we're getting somewhere.   Why does it matter to you that the British monarchy are not Catholics ?   They're a symbol, thats all - they hold no influence  over our lives or beliefs, and you and thousands of others could continue to worship God in CoS churches.       Or am I missing something ?

[The Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are plenty of protestants who aren't into Britain and the crown, so this isn't about protestantism.

 

It's a loyalist, anti Catholic organisation, always has been. It's not a decent organisation with some arseholes, it's an arsehole organisation with some good guys.

 

In my opinion, of course.

In your opinion. And ill accept that.

[Nucky Thompson]

Religion is for weak minded people who look for something to cling on to.

Science proves that all religion is a sham.

What came first, dinosaurs or Adam and Eve? 

 

 

[Mister T]

2 hours ago, AuldReekiee said:

If you ever need to lose an erection fast just google some images of the people at these parades. 

😂

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Classic Jonesy. 

I knew I could rely on you