National rail strikes planned by RMT

[1874robbo]

4 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

Funny, I said the same on here earlier.

 

Even at 80% there's no way they were bleeding money either.

But Malinga and Ked etc know better.

prob never been on a train.

[IronJambo]

12 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

But Malinga and Ked etc know better.

prob never been on a train.

I'm worried about poor ked, he's no been posting for a while. He clearly needed to calm down but I think he's maybe overdone the valium or something.

[Cade]

Network Rail profits for year 20/21: £1.6billion

The top 73 highest paid employees of Network Rail paid themselves £15million in total last year.

https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

 

Across all rail companies, shareholders were paid almost £1billion in dividends last year.

 

They're minted.

There is plenty of money swishing around the rail industry.

[1874robbo]

Just now, IronJambo said:

I'm worried about poor ked, he's no been posting for a while. He clearly needed to calm down but I think he's maybe overdone the valium or something.

With a bit of luck 🤞🤞🤞

[1874robbo]

Just now, Cade said:

Network Rail profits for year 20/21: £1.6billion

The top 73 highest paid employees of Network Rail paid themselves £15million in total last year.

https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

 

Across all rail companies, shareholders were paid almost £1billion in dividends last year.

 

They're minted.

There is plenty of money swishing around the rail industry.

Course there is but they don’t want it going to the workers!! Only the directors and their Tory pals 

[Shooter McGavin]

It’s been a pleasure to watch Mick Lynch wipe the floor with some tory cretins today.

 

Had them on toast.

[Ked]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Network Rail profits for year 20/21: £1.6billion

The top 73 highest paid employees of Network Rail paid themselves £15million in total last year.

https://www.tssa.org.uk/find-your-company/network-rail/news/nr-top-bosses-and-what-they-are-paid

 

Across all rail companies, shareholders were paid almost £1billion in dividends last year.

 

They're minted.

There is plenty of money swishing around the rail industry.

Even if that were true it would cover less than half the demands of the Union.

 

[Ked]

35 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

But Malinga and Ked etc know better.

prob never been on a train.

I don't know better than anyone else.

The figures I've quoted are there for anyone to see.

 

As I've stated I'm all for decent wages and decent conditions.

Your industries workforce already has that.

Strike away pal and go after what you want.

You affect no one apart from your own industry and people who rely on your service to get to work.

 

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

I don't know better than anyone else.

The figures I've quoted are there for anyone to see.

 

As I've stated I'm all for decent wages and decent conditions.

Your industries workforce already has that.

Strike away pal and go after what you want.

You affect no one apart from your own industry and people who rely on your service to get to work.

 

Hiya Ked, Hiya pal 

[Ked]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

Hiya Ked, Hiya pal 

Hello.

I doubt I'm your pal though.

 

[Riccarton3]

11 minutes ago, Ked said:

I don't know better than anyone else.

The figures I've quoted are there for anyone to see.

 

As I've stated I'm all for decent wages and decent conditions.

Your industries workforce already has that.

Strike away pal and go after what you want.

You affect no one apart from your own industry and people who rely on your service to get to work.

 

The hospitality industry is hit quite hard by cancellations, businesses that exist in stations are affected, too. 

[Ked]

41 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

It’s been a pleasure to watch Mick Lynch wipe the floor with some tory cretins today.

 

Had them on toast.

Mick Lynch would have the country as a socialist/communist state.

Socialist countries/states aspire to workers rights but deliver only poverty and tyranny.

The living standards enjoyed by the workers of Western Europe have been delivered by capitalism.

I accept that workers have fought for decent conditions .

But to big Mick Lynch up is fantasy .

 

The rail workers are not some downtrodden workforce .

The railway needs modernisation and the workforce enjoy a 35 hour week before premium pay.

Anyway I've said enough on this thread .

As I'm sure most would agree.

 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Mick Lynch would have the country as a socialist/communist state.

Socialist countries/states aspire to workers rights but deliver only poverty and tyranny.

The living standards enjoyed by the workers of Western Europe have been delivered by capitalism.

I accept that workers have fought for decent conditions .

But to big Mick Lynch up is fantasy .

 

The rail workers are not some downtrodden workforce .

The railway needs modernisation and the workforce enjoy a 35 hour week before premium pay.

Anyway I've said enough on this thread .

As I'm sure most would agree.

 

I hadn’t heard of the guy before this. I’ve enjoyed listening to him, he speaks to me.  He’s some mad socialist you’re saying? 

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I hadn’t heard of the guy before this. I’ve enjoyed listening to him, he speaks to me.  He’s some mad socialist you’re saying? 

Sorry bud I normally respond to you but I'm bowing out this thread.

 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Sorry bud I normally respond to you but I'm bowing out this thread.

 

Aye nae worries man. 

[ri Alban]

Pay increase since 2000 

Private 21% Public 15% 

 

Pay increase since 2010 

 

Private 4.3% Public -4.3% 

 

 

 

Well tell us again about how the Tories have no blame .

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 hours ago, Ked said:

Sorry bud I normally respond to you but I'm bowing out this thread.

 

[1874robbo]

7 hours ago, Ked said:

Sorry bud I normally respond to you but I'm bowing out this thread.

 

Thank feck

[Dazo]

14 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You don't think changing people's contracts and days of work needs to be incentivised?

 

I signed a contract that says Sunday is my day off and if I work it it's overtime. 

 

Comparing safety critical jobs to retail and leisure is an awful comparison. It would take far more staff because of the gaps between shifts required by law etc.

 

What is it you do yourself? If your employer all of a sudden said "sorry we need you to work nightshift,we aren't going to compensate you just eh get on with it"

 

Would you be chuffed or just put up with it?

Initially yes they should be but is Sunday really considered a day of these days ? I assume when you applied for the job you knew the trains ran on a Sunday ? I’m not saying anyone should be chuffed but as a workforce you should be prepared to move with the times. Save me the union speak bollox on safety as well as I’m sure when it comes to safety on the rail the day of the week is irrelevant. All days are equally safe. 
 

You’ve signed your contract and can rightly wave it about but in all industries things change. Your employer I’m sure it wants what is best for the business and that isn’t always what is best for the employees. There needs to be some flexibility from both sides I’m just of them opinion that Sunday isn’t the big deal it once was. 
 

Yep easy for me to say as it doesn’t impact me but if I were an employee in your position I’d be willing to adapt. 
 

 

[Boab]

8 hours ago, Ked said:

Mick Lynch would have the country as a socialist/communist state.

Socialist countries/states aspire to workers rights but deliver only poverty and tyranny.

The living standards enjoyed by the workers of Western Europe have been delivered by capitalism.

I accept that workers have fought for decent conditions .

But to big Mick Lynch up is fantasy .

 

The rail workers are not some downtrodden workforce .

The railway needs modernisation and the workforce enjoy a 35 hour week before premium pay.

Anyway I've said enough on this thread .

As I'm sure most would agree.

 

Do you do stand-up, mate ?

It's capitalism that has delivered better conditions for workers ? 

😂

So if we do away with unions, companies will deliver decent wage rises ?

😂

You bowed out on a high !

 

[The Mighty Thor]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Your employer I’m sure it wants what is best for the business and that isn’t always what is best for the employees. There needs to be some flexibility from both sides.

 

The nub of it is that the employer wants what's best for the shareholders. What's best for profit and bosses bonuses. 

 

A contract is a contract. If you break the terms of your contract, you are generally disciplined or emptied. Conversely the employer also has to stick to the terms they signed you up to.

 

What's going on here is that the employer is trying to force through changes to contracts for certain employees and a below inflation pay increase, in fact it's below the public service sector settlement of 3%.

 

Meanwhile, the government (and some posters on here) are crowing about the amount of public money that 'propped up' the industry during covid. What they're less noisy about is the billions in profits made by the train operating companies during that period of virtually zero income. How does that work? 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

9 hours ago, 1874robbo said:

But Malinga and Ked etc know better.

prob never been on a train.

Not claiming I know better. Just saying to you need to give notice to strike. Maybe they're announcing more strikes next week.

[fabienleclerq]

29 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Initially yes they should be but is Sunday really considered a day of these days ? I assume when you applied for the job you knew the trains ran on a Sunday ? I’m not saying anyone should be chuffed but as a workforce you should be prepared to move with the times. Save me the union speak bollox on safety as well as I’m sure when it comes to safety on the rail the day of the week is irrelevant. All days are equally safe. 
 

You’ve signed your contract and can rightly wave it about but in all industries things change. Your employer I’m sure it wants what is best for the business and that isn’t always what is best for the employees. There needs to be some flexibility from both sides I’m just of them opinion that Sunday isn’t the big deal it once was. 
 

Yep easy for me to say as it doesn’t impact me but if I were an employee in your position I’d be willing to adapt. 
 

 

 

The whole job is about safety, you've completely missed my point there. 

 

Legally you need 12 hours between shifts, you go from back shifts one week to earlies the next so Sunday acts as a buffer a lot of the time.

 

Anyway I'm not sure the obsession with Sundays, yeah I was aware the trains ran Sunday and we are expected to work a certain amount. 

 

I've said already it's likely cheaper to pay overtime than hire more drivers so the employers haven't made a big deal of it,you make it out like its just unions not wanting it part of the working week.

 

I signed a contract that I quite like,if the employer wants to change it then they need to make me an offer.

[The Mighty Thor]

Of all the absolute spankings handed out yesterday by Mick Lynch, this one on Jonathan Gullis (who is the dictionary definition of a welt) is a beauty. 😂

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

13 hours ago, Cade said:

Again, according to the Government.....

82,000 rail workers getting a decent wage rise = economic catastrophe

15,000,000 pensions getting higher than inflation pension rises = nae bother

 

This is not about the money.

It's about power.

 

The government are going to have difficulty explaining this. Completely lost the plot.

[Japan Jambo]

I understand the notion that increases over 3% are available if linked to productivity gains reforms.

 

Can anyone articulate coherently what reforms the railco's are looking for and why they are problematic?

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

I understand the notion that increases over 3% are available if linked to productivity gains reforms.

 

Can anyone articulate coherently what reforms the railco's are looking for and why they are problematic?

According to the Daily Express they are suggesting it maybe because they hate Johnson.

[Riccarton3]

45 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Of all the absolute spankings handed out yesterday by Mick Lynch, this one on Jonathan Gullis (who is the dictionary definition of a welt) is a beauty. 😂

 

 

Playing on veterans' celebrations. I mean, how low can you go? Where does any sense of self awareness kick in? Binned, if it existed at all,  for a party line written by *****

Edited June 22, 2022 by Riccarton3

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

The whole job is about safety, you've completely missed my point there. 

 

Legally you need 12 hours between shifts, you go from back shifts one week to earlies the next so Sunday acts as a buffer a lot of the time.

 

Anyway I'm not sure the obsession with Sundays, yeah I was aware the trains ran Sunday and we are expected to work a certain amount. 

 

I've said already it's likely cheaper to pay overtime than hire more drivers so the employers haven't made a big deal of it,you make it out like its just unions not wanting it part of the working week.

 

I signed a contract that I quite like,if the employer wants to change it then they need to make me an offer.

Does the buffer have to be a Sunday ? If every day was equal then I can’t see why. Anyway It’s your industry mate so yeah every chance I’ve missed the point regarding safety. 👍 

 

From the outside rail employees come across as not very flexible or unwilling to move with the times. Seems weird that your are always so unhappy about something but never want to leave. 😂

 

I have no horse in the race though so good luck with your fight. 👍

[Victorian]

Mick Lynch has a full understanding of the industry of the workers he represents.  As well as intelligence,  calmness and no ulterior ideological or intra-junta impairments.  The Tory clownshow ministers and MPs who blurt all types of berserk rhetoric against the unions/workers generally haven't the first clue about what they're on about.  It's not a fair fight.

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

The nub of it is that the employer wants what's best for the shareholders. What's best for profit and bosses bonuses. 

 

A contract is a contract. If you break the terms of your contract, you are generally disciplined or emptied. Conversely the employer also has to stick to the terms they signed you up to.

 

What's going on here is that the employer is trying to force through changes to contracts for certain employees and a below inflation pay increase, in fact it's below the public service sector settlement of 3%.

 

Meanwhile, the government (and some posters on here) are crowing about the amount of public money that 'propped up' the industry during covid. What they're less noisy about is the billions in profits made by the train operating companies during that period of virtually zero income. How does that work? 

 

 

I guess if you an issue with businesses and shareholders making some money then you’ll never be open to changes. 
 

I don’t disagree about contracts and they have every right to stick to the terms of the contract. The problem is the entrenched position from both sides make changes almost impossible. 
 

Below 3% is a shit you offer though I’m sure that would be improved if changes could be agreed to. 
 

Any business making a substantial profit during covid having received handouts isn’t on really. 

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Does the buffer have to be a Sunday ? If every day was equal then I can’t see why. Anyway It’s your industry mate so yeah every chance I’ve missed the point regarding safety. 👍 

 

From the outside rail employees come across as not very flexible or unwilling to move with the times. Seems weird that your are always so unhappy about something but never want to leave. 😂

 

I have no horse in the race though so good luck with your fight. 👍

 

The only other way I could see it working were 4 on 4 off but I'm not even sure it's what's being argued about tbh.

 

It's the same in any industry where people have worked a while,I'm relatively new to it and the conditions are great. You'll not find me moaning about it. The people who have been in a while have fought for those great conditions though so you won't find me criticising them for trying to protect them.

 

As always the media headlines miss the mark on what's going on, I'm flying about at 125mph I'm not wanting safety taken lightly. 

[Pans Jambo]

Seems the government plans to introduce primary and secondary legislation to erode workers rights and replace them with agency staff at a whim according to Grant Shapps.

 

Blaming the workers for folk missing hospital appointments and exams. Utter scumbag.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

Meanwhile, the tories are now looking to lift already rich bankers pay restrictions. The richest workers in the UK!

 

Gammon supporters noses deeper into the trough!

 

When will the riots start???

 

 

[benny]

Still got Scotrail negotiations with the Scottish government to come as well.Cannot see them being any different as well.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

I guess if you an issue with businesses and shareholders making some money then you’ll never be open to changes. 
 

I don’t disagree about contracts and they have every right to stick to the terms of the contract. The problem is the entrenched position from both sides make changes almost impossible. 
 

Below 3% is a shit you offer though I’m sure that would be improved if changes could be agreed to. 
 

Any business making a substantial profit during covid having received handouts isn’t on really. 

I don't have an issue with businesses making money. I have an issue with businesses taking the pish out of the people that make their business work. 

 

The below 3% offer is actually a 2% offer & 1% more if they accept the other conditions which relate to job cuts and other condition changes. In the current climate that is taking the pish and anyone with half a brain would rightly tell the to ram it.

 

Yip. It looks very much like the £600 per household the mugs bang on about of public money went straight into the shareholder's back burners. The Tory's are quieter than a hermit's doorbell on that one. 

[Cade]

15 minutes ago, benny said:

Still got Scotrail negotiations with the Scottish government to come as well.Cannot see them being any different as well.

Aslef has accepted a 5% offer, it's down to the members to vote on that

[il Duce McTarkin]

12 hours ago, Ked said:

Mick Lynch would have the country as a socialist/communist state.

Socialist countries/states aspire to workers rights but deliver only poverty and tyranny.

The living standards enjoyed by the workers of Western Europe have been delivered by capitalism.

I accept that workers have fought for decent conditions .

But to big Mick Lynch up is fantasy .

 

The rail workers are not some downtrodden workforce .

The railway needs modernisation and the workforce enjoy a 35 hour week before premium pay.

Anyway I've said enough on this thread .

As I'm sure most would agree.

 

 

It takes both, though, Ked. 

It's absolutley essential that there shoukd always be a struggle between capitalism and socialism. Too far either way and the results for the commonfolk are the same, poverty and subjugation.

We need strong capital investment and entrepreneurship, we need strong incentives for people to work hard, educate themselves, take chances, and better the financial situation for them and their families. 

But we also need a strong, well funded welfare state that is a genuine safety net for thos that require it. We need a robust health service free at the point of use, and strong workers rights. 

None of these things are mutually exclusive, and it doesn't need to be a zero sum game. People like Mick Lynch are an absolute necessity. People like Boris Johnson and his cabal of suited scavangers are not. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Mick Lynch has a full understanding of the industry of the workers he represents.  As well as intelligence,  calmness and no ulterior ideological or intra-junta impairments.  The Tory clownshow ministers and MPs who blurt all types of berserk rhetoric against the unions/workers generally haven't the first clue about what they're on about.  It's not a fair fight.

 

Watching PMQs here and the mocking attitude of the PM towards Labour MPs who were on the picket lines is disgusting. Does he have no understanding of what the Labour Party is supposed to be about? 

 

[Pans Jambo]

28 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The Tory's are quieter than a hermit's doorbell on that one

See my post with Grant Shapps above. He has the actual brass neck to mention it in his interview in the context that the government did something nice for them then the workers went straight on strike as soon as they could. Who votes for this filth?

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Of all the absolute spankings handed out yesterday by Mick Lynch, this one on Jonathan Gullis (who is the dictionary definition of a welt) is a beauty. 😂

 

 

What a dick he is ! Gullis I mean . Lynch is certainly old school trade unionism which has been sorely missed . It’s exactly what this country needs at this time 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Playing on veterans' celebrations. I mean, how low can you go? Where does any sense of self awareness kick in? Binned, if it existed at all,  for a party line written by *****

I know it’s sickening. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

46 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Seems the government plans to introduce primary and secondary legislation to erode workers rights and replace them with agency staff at a whim according to Grant Shapps.

 

Blaming the workers for folk missing hospital appointments and exams. Utter scumbag.

 

 

Turning people against each other . Classic divide and conquer 

41 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Meanwhile, the tories are now looking to lift already rich bankers pay restrictions. The richest workers in the UK!

 

Gammon supporters noses deeper into the trough!

 

When will the riots start???

 

 

I honestly think there might be riots due to a variety of reasons . This may tip people over the edge . It’s def a class thing now , poor v Rich, Tory v the rest 

[JudyJudyJudy]

send a search party out for Jeremy C 

He’s exactly who the people need on their side 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Watching PMQs here and the mocking attitude of the PM towards Labour MPs who were on the picket lines is disgusting. Does he have no understanding of what the Labour Party is supposed to be about? 

 

 

Any excuse to plunder political capital with a wedge issue / culture war.  The only thing they're competent at is deflecting attention and manufacturing division.  It comes with practice.  

[benny]

35 minutes ago, Cade said:

Aslef has accepted a 5% offer, it's down to the members to vote on that

Still got RMT negotiations to happen as well.

[Shooter McGavin]

17 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Any excuse to plunder political capital with a wedge issue / culture war.  The only thing they're competent at is deflecting attention and manufacturing division.  It comes with practice.  

Torys love to pit the working class against themselves, or immigrants. It distracts people from the millions they shovel off to their pals.

 

Unfortunately, there are simpletons out there that truly believe an Etonion elite speaks for them, and has their best interests in mind.

 

Baffling.

[SectionDJambo]

18 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Any excuse to plunder political capital with a wedge issue / culture war.  The only thing they're competent at is deflecting attention and manufacturing division.  It comes with practice.  

The annoying thing is that, once again, some in the Parliamentary Labour party have allowed themselves to be used by the Conservatives to feed the narrative that they would unequivocally support any union action, nomatter the cause or justification. Starmer asked them not to, but they went away and did it anyway.

They just never learn. There was no need for them to get involved on a picket line for a wee photo shoot to boost their egos at the expense of making Johnson look like the friend of the people. When are they going to realise that the battering ram of 70s union power are long gone and they have to be as sleekit as the Conservatives now.

[il Duce McTarkin]

32 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Any excuse to plunder political capital with a wedge issue / culture war.  The only thing they're competent at is deflecting attention and manufacturing division.  It comes with practice.  

 

Agreed. 

 

11 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Torys love to pit the working class against themselves, or immigrants. It distracts people from the millions they shovel off to their pals.

 

 

It's a tried and tested tactic. Can't believe folk still fall for it. 

Where are the Labour politicians pointing this out. They should be trumpeting it from the rooftops. There's few things that'll bring the working and middle classes together than lifting the wool from their eyes and ahowing them how they've been taken for collective mugs. 

 

3 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

The annoying thing is that, once again, some in the Parliamentary Labour party have allowed themselves to be used by the Conservatives to feed the narrative that they would unequivocally support any union action, nomatter the cause or justification. Starmer asked them not to, but they went away and did it anyway.

They just never learn. There was no need for them to get involved on a picket line for a wee photo shoot to boost their egos at the expense of making Johnson look like the friend of the people. When are they going to realise that the battering ram of 70s union power are long gone and they have to be as sleekit as the Conservatives now.

 

Disagree with this. A Labour movement should always allow its members to show solidarity with workers, and if that's on the picket line then that's on the picket line. It's sort of the point. The national psyche has subcontiously moved so far the right that we feel uneasy about this as a default. It shouldn't be like that. Those that are striking aren't the villans of this piece. 

 

I watched a documentary on the BBC recently about Scottish workers who stopped air strikes against the democratucally elected government of Chile by General Pinochet in 1973 (Nae Pasaran). It struck me that this type of thing would be unthinkable today. We can't even show solidarity with each other on this island. How did we sleepwalk into this state of affairs? Where is it still to take us, and what is its logical conclusion?

 

Becoming as sleekit as the conservatives makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

50 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Any excuse to plunder political capital with a wedge issue / culture war.  The only thing they're competent at is deflecting attention and manufacturing division.  It comes with practice.  

All politicians are as bad as each other to be honest