Howdy Doody Jambo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 You just can't have open borders in the world though or can you? An independent Scotland would have a passport controlled border with Berwick upon Tweed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Maroon Pound said: You just can't have open borders in the world though or can you? An independent Scotland would have a passport controlled border with Berwick upon Tweed Why would it need a passport controlled border? We are already part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland and the various islands such as Jersey, Guernsey and IOM. Edited June 15, 2022 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Doody Jambo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 42 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Why would it need a passport controlled border? We are already part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland and the various islands such as Jersey, Guernsey and IOM. An independent Scotland would not be part of the EU or the UK as it is now so would begin as a neutral state, would it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 26 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said: An independent Scotland would not be part of the EU or the UK as it is now so would begin as a neutral state, would it not? Aye and rUk wouldn't want the £65b we give them for their goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 58 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said: An independent Scotland would not be part of the EU or the UK as it is now so would begin as a neutral state, would it not? The UK is a "neutral state", as per your description, as it has left the EU. However, it remains part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU). There is nothing to stop Scotland seeking to remain part of that CTA following independence, unless of course Westminster decides to play silly buggers and makes the exit from the UK as difficult and disruptive for Scotland as possible. After all it is the same argument that the Tories are making about the EU about the NI protocol and red tape regarding trade generally with the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Doody Jambo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: The UK is a "neutral state", as per your description, as it has left the EU. However, it remains part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU). There is nothing to stop Scotland seeking to remain part of that CTA following independence, unless of course Westminster decides to play silly buggers and makes the exit from the UK as difficult and disruptive for Scotland as possible. After all it is the same argument that the Tories are making about the EU about the NI protocol and red tape regarding trade generally with the EU. The UK is not a neutral state it still abides to retained EU laws Edited June 15, 2022 by The Maroon Pound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said: The UK is not a neutral state it still abides to retained EU laws Crap. The UK government CHOSE to retain the laws it shared with EU, with a few exceptions. The UK has simply copied those EU statutes into UK law. The UK now abides by UK laws, other than those enshrined in bilateral or multilateral treaties (unless the Tories decide that international treaties don't apply to them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Footballfirst said: The UK is a "neutral state", as per your description, as it has left the EU. However, it remains part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU). There is nothing to stop Scotland seeking to remain part of that CTA following independence, unless of course Westminster decides to play silly buggers and makes the exit from the UK as difficult and disruptive for Scotland as possible. After all it is the same argument that the Tories are making about the EU about the NI protocol and red tape regarding trade generally with the EU. Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen. Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 11 hours ago, Victorian said: ubergammon 😁 Megagam 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said: 😁 Megagam 😀 I think we've strayed off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 On 15/06/2022 at 22:38, Malinga the Swinga said: Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen. Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys. ain’t that the truth though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 15/06/2022 at 21:38, Malinga the Swinga said: Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen. Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys. Really. What about the Tory bullshit? And fortunately for Scotland, The Majority of Scots just like last time will vote yes. This time you have no EU citizens or membership to blackmail the soft no's with. Indyref 2 should go with the EUref rules. You know, the ref where EU citizens who lived and worked in The UK couldn't vote. Let's make it Scots born, living and working in Scotland who decide which way our country decides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 6 hours ago, ri Alban said: Really. What about the Tory bullshit? And fortunately for Scotland, The Majority of Scots just like last time will vote yes. This time you have no EU citizens or membership to blackmail the soft no's with. Indyref 2 should go with the EUref rules. You know, the ref where EU citizens who lived and worked in The UK couldn't vote. Let's make it Scots born, living and working in Scotland who decide which way our country decides. EU referendum was based off Westminster parliamentary franchise. Indyref was based off Holyrood parliamentary franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 15/06/2022 at 23:38, Malinga the Swinga said: Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen. Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys. 😂😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Lost both by-elections. Heavily by the libdems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Party chairman resigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Dowden says he had to go because "someone has to take responsibility". Spaffer on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Yes Prime Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 Surely Boris the Bullshitter is toast now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Shirley, this had to be it? Decision has to be taken out of his hands now. If the men in grey suits won't act you've got to think the men in top hats and tails will see the game is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 On 18/06/2022 at 11:56, jonesy said: Absolutely. Nothing screams nationalism like restricting the rights of others. How about we give London a quick call and split the costs of the Rwanda flights by sticking anyone who isn't a woad-faced, kilt-wearing, ginger*-swilling loon on the next Kigali-bound deportation express to ensure your vision of an insular and xenophobic Alba is realised? *Thought I'd keep it in West Coast patter for you. Former YES voter though 😂😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 47 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Surely Boris the Bullshitter is toast now? 30 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Shirley, this had to be it? Decision has to be taken out of his hands now. If the men in grey suits won't act you've got to think the men in top hats and tails will see the game is up. Nope. He's not resigning. That horrible racist boot Patel has just been on LBC. Number of questions answered? Zero. Bullshit, wibble, delivering for the people, getting on with the job, wibble, listening to the people wibble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Well if he doesn't resign his party is finished at the next GE. He'll be gone. It's just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Raab calls everything a distraction. Party Gate a distraction. Tell that to the bereaved. While your loved ones died we were distracted by partying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 On 18/06/2022 at 04:44, ri Alban said: Really. What about the Tory bullshit? And fortunately for Scotland, The Majority of Scots just like last time will vote yes. This time you have no EU citizens or membership to blackmail the soft no's with. Indyref 2 should go with the EUref rules. You know, the ref where EU citizens who lived and worked in The UK couldn't vote. Let's make it Scots born, living and working in Scotland who decide which way our country decides. Kind of like a poll tax you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Harriott Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Surely Boris the Bullshitter is toast now? They called that vote of no confidence too early. Had they called it now he would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 The ultimate protest comes at the polls. Just cos no one is on the streets kids them on they've got away with it again. History repeating itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: They called that vote of no confidence too early. Had they called it now he would be Keep him. Public isn't interested in making a big noise. It's the nature of Britain. Why waste energy But come the GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: They called that vote of no confidence too early. Had they called it now he would be Most likely a calculated move to protect him, just like when a leader calls a general election to try and increase their majority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, milky_26 said: Most likely a calculated move to protect him, just like when a leader calls a general election to try and increase their majority Interesting concept. Not one I'd thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) The last few by elections Labour and the LibDems have developed a system to help the strongest candidate. Not withdrawing, still campaigning. But if you look at the votes it's working. LibDems nowhere in Wakefield and Labour from 2nd place to less than 4% of vote in Tiverton. That should be a big worry for the Tories. (And John Curtice the elections expert has just said this). Edited June 24, 2022 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Cade said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 The Tories have been trying to manage expectations by saying they expected to lose, mid term blues and all that spin. Boris won't resign, probably not even if the ethics committee find him guilty. Only way he'll go is if the party sh1t themselves on expectation of losing their seats but would need a lot of cabinet members to force that. In any case, there's enough time between now and the election to wreak havoc on the country for their ideologies and paymasters. What these by elections do show is that if the opposition parties work together, with tactical voting, they can win the next election and get PR in and get these f**kers out permanently. The country is finished otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: The last few by elections Labour and the LibDems have developed a system to help the strongest candidate. Not withdrawing, still campaigning. But if you look at the votes it's working. LibDems nowhere in Wakefield and Labour from 2nd place to less than 4% of vote in Tiverton. That should be a big worry for the Tories. (And John Curtice the elections expert has just said this). It's a form of proportional representation that is countering the normal outcome from the first past the post system. Labour and the Lib Dems are in effect using a single transferrable vote to reject the party that they don't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 2 hours ago, pablo said: Well if he doesn't resign his party is finished at the next GE. He'll be gone. It's just a matter of time. But I guess the question for his bankrollers is what makes more money for them. THey can continue to make more money with a clown at the helm and take their chances that enough people are still stupid enough to vote him back in or if it is worth getting rid now and putting another useful idiot in charge who is slightly more credible and possibly electable. Either way, the choice will be about what makes more money for them. Not what is in the national interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 The confidence motion was gamed. The timing was highly suspicious. Him and his gang aren't just holding the country to ransom. They're also the squatter gang holding the Tory party to ransom. ****ing hell mend them for tolerating him in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) Yet you thought it was ok for the EUref. No problems discriminating against Poles, French and the rest of the EU citizens that lived and worked in the UK. But if someone suggests we do the same. @jonesy. Scots voted for independence in 2014, Fact. Yet we're still lumbered with Tory filth. Edited June 24, 2022 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Footballfirst said: It's a form of proportional representation that is countering the normal outcome from the first past the post system. Labour and the Lib Dems are in effect using a single transferrable vote to reject the party that they don't want. There has been talk for years about doing this. Parties should stand down etc. But somehow Labour and Libdems have got it to work without a formal advertised agreement. As you say its the voters doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: There has been talk for years about doing this. Parties should stand down etc. But somehow Labour and Libdems have got it to work without a formal advertised agreement. As you say its the voters doing it. If I remember rightly, Blair was ready to have a coalition with the Lib Dems in 97 and introduce PR but when they got a thumping majority, ditched that. An opportunity lost you have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: There has been talk for years about doing this. Parties should stand down etc. But somehow Labour and Libdems have got it to work without a formal advertised agreement. As you say its the voters doing it. It works well against the Tories with the primarily three party system in England, but is less effective against the SNP with the four party system in Scotland, when Tories are highly unlikely to switch to Labour and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011. It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: It works well against the Tories with the primarily three party system in England, but is less effective against the SNP with the four party system in Scotland, when Tories are highly unlikely to switch to Labour and vice versa. To be fair, it's still to be fully tested in Scotland yet. But yes, it wouldn't be nearly as straightforward a tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Cade said: UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011. It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs. Because AV is a shite system that is worse than FPTP. We have it here. STV with multi-member constituencies is the correct way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Victorian said: The confidence motion was gamed. The timing was highly suspicious. Him and his gang aren't just holding the country to ransom. They're also the squatter gang holding the Tory party to ransom. ****ing hell mend them for tolerating him in the first place. Very, very good post. If there is such a thing as a decent tory and I think there is, they must be feeling very uneasy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 45 minutes ago, Cade said: UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011. It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs. There must be something in this. Must be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gentleman Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 41 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Because AV is a shite system that is worse than FPTP. We have it here. STV with multi-member constituencies is the correct way. In what way is it worse? Being 'worse' than FPTP takes some doing. I don't disagree with your last sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Let them have their esteemed leader take them into the next GE. It'll be hilarious and a lot of these sycophants will be out on their arses for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: Yet you thought it was ok for the EUref. No problems discriminating against Poles, French and the rest of the EU citizens that lived and worked in the UK. But if someone suggests we do the same. @jonesy. Scots voted for independence in 2014, Fact. Yet we're still lumbered with Tory filth. You are making a mistake by taking that attention-seeking hypocrite seriously pal. Edited June 24, 2022 by Weakened Offender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Cade said: UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011. It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs. The following is not my attitude, just to be clear. But…for all the talk of the cost of living crisis, which is very real, there are plenty of people in England - loads and loads of people - who are well off, have plenty of cash and therefore don’t need to prioritise social issues. The fact is that if you have money (and it doesn’t need to be huge amounts) the Conservative party tend to be the party who let you keep most of it. It’s a horribly selfish and cynical way to think but it explains voting patterns I think. It’s easy to assume that everyone is skint and angry but actually, plenty of people are doing just fine thank you. Society generally need a more collective attitude. The Tories will never generate that or even try to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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