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Johnson confidence vote is on


Geoff Kilpatrick

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Howdy Doody Jambo

You just can't have open borders in the world though or can you? 

An independent Scotland would have a passport controlled border with Berwick upon Tweed 

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Footballfirst
1 hour ago, The Maroon Pound said:

You just can't have open borders in the world though or can you? 

An independent Scotland would have a passport controlled border with Berwick upon Tweed 

Why would it need a passport controlled border? We are already part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland and the various islands such as Jersey, Guernsey and IOM.

Edited by Footballfirst
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Howdy Doody Jambo
42 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Why would it need a passport controlled border? We are already part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland and the various islands such as Jersey, Guernsey and IOM.

An independent Scotland would not be part of the EU or the UK as it is now so would begin as a neutral state, would it not? 

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26 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

An independent Scotland would not be part of the EU or the UK as it is now so would begin as a neutral state, would it not? 

Aye and rUk wouldn't want the £65b we give them for their goods. :Aye:

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Footballfirst
58 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

An independent Scotland would not be part of the EU or the UK as it is now so would begin as a neutral state, would it not? 

The UK is a "neutral state", as per your description, as it has left the EU. However, it remains part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU).  There is nothing to stop Scotland seeking to remain part of that CTA following independence, unless of course Westminster decides to play silly buggers and makes the exit from the UK as difficult and disruptive for Scotland as possible.

 

After all it is the same argument that the Tories are making about the EU about the NI protocol and red tape regarding trade generally with the EU.

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Howdy Doody Jambo
8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The UK is a "neutral state", as per your description, as it has left the EU. However, it remains part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU).  There is nothing to stop Scotland seeking to remain part of that CTA following independence, unless of course Westminster decides to play silly buggers and makes the exit from the UK as difficult and disruptive for Scotland as possible.

 

After all it is the same argument that the Tories are making about the EU about the NI protocol and red tape regarding trade generally with the EU.

The UK is not a neutral state it still abides to retained EU laws 

Edited by The Maroon Pound
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Footballfirst
5 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

The UK is not a neutral state it still abides to retained EU laws 

Crap.  The UK government CHOSE to retain the laws it shared with EU, with a few exceptions.

 

The UK has simply copied those EU statutes into UK law.  The UK now abides by UK laws, other than those enshrined in bilateral or multilateral treaties (unless the Tories decide that international treaties don't apply to them).

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Malinga the Swinga
7 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The UK is a "neutral state", as per your description, as it has left the EU. However, it remains part of a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland (part of the EU).  There is nothing to stop Scotland seeking to remain part of that CTA following independence, unless of course Westminster decides to play silly buggers and makes the exit from the UK as difficult and disruptive for Scotland as possible.

 

After all it is the same argument that the Tories are making about the EU about the NI protocol and red tape regarding trade generally with the EU.

Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen.

Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys.

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A Boy Named Crow
1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

😁

 

Megagam 😀

 I think we've strayed off topic

 

:oohmatron:

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manaliveits105
On 15/06/2022 at 22:38, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen.

Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys.

ain’t that the truth though 

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On 15/06/2022 at 21:38, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen.

Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys.

Really. What about the Tory bullshit? And fortunately for Scotland, The Majority of Scots just like last time will vote yes. This time you have no EU citizens or membership to blackmail the soft no's with.  Indyref 2 should go with the EUref rules. You know, the ref where EU citizens who lived and worked in The UK couldn't vote. Let's make it Scots born, living and working in Scotland who decide which way our country decides.

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dobmisterdobster
6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Really. What about the Tory bullshit? And fortunately for Scotland, The Majority of Scots just like last time will vote yes. This time you have no EU citizens or membership to blackmail the soft no's with.  Indyref 2 should go with the EUref rules. You know, the ref where EU citizens who lived and worked in The UK couldn't vote. Let's make it Scots born, living and working in Scotland who decide which way our country decides.

 

EU referendum was based off Westminster parliamentary franchise.

Indyref was based off Holyrood parliamentary franchise.

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On 15/06/2022 at 23:38, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, we won't ever find out cause independence is a dream that will never happen.

Fortunately for Scotland, the silent majority have seen through the bullshit of SNP and it's fanboys.

😂😂😂😂

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i wish jj was my dad

Shirley, this had to be it? Decision has to be taken out of his hands now. If the men in grey suits won't act you've got to think the men in top hats and tails will see the game is up. 

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Weakened Offender
On 18/06/2022 at 11:56, jonesy said:

 

Absolutely. Nothing screams nationalism like restricting the rights of others.

 

How about we give London a quick call and split the costs of the Rwanda flights by sticking anyone who isn't a woad-faced, kilt-wearing, ginger*-swilling loon on the next Kigali-bound deportation express to ensure your vision of an insular and xenophobic Alba is realised?

 

*Thought I'd keep it in West Coast patter for you.

 

Former YES voter though 😂😂😂😂

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The Mighty Thor
47 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Surely Boris the Bullshitter is toast now?

 

30 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Shirley, this had to be it? Decision has to be taken out of his hands now. If the men in grey suits won't act you've got to think the men in top hats and tails will see the game is up. 

Nope. He's not resigning.

 

That horrible racist boot Patel has just been on LBC. Number of questions answered? Zero. Bullshit, wibble, delivering for the people, getting on with the job, wibble, listening to the people wibble. 

 

 

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Well if he doesn't resign his party is finished at the next GE. He'll be gone. It's just a matter of time. 

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Raab calls everything a distraction. Party Gate a distraction. Tell that to the bereaved. While your loved ones died we were distracted by partying 

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Japan Jambo
On 18/06/2022 at 04:44, ri Alban said:

Really. What about the Tory bullshit? And fortunately for Scotland, The Majority of Scots just like last time will vote yes. This time you have no EU citizens or membership to blackmail the soft no's with.  Indyref 2 should go with the EUref rules. You know, the ref where EU citizens who lived and worked in The UK couldn't vote. Let's make it Scots born, living and working in Scotland who decide which way our country decides.

 

Kind of like a poll tax you mean?

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Ainsley Harriott
1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Surely Boris the Bullshitter is toast now?

They called that vote of no confidence too early. Had they called it now he would be 

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The ultimate protest comes at the polls. Just cos no one is on the streets kids them on they've got away with it again. History repeating  itself. 

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7 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

They called that vote of no confidence too early. Had they called it now he would be 

Keep him. Public isn't interested in making a  big noise. It's the nature of Britain. Why waste energy  But come  the GE.

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9 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

They called that vote of no confidence too early. Had they called it now he would be 

Most likely a calculated move to protect him, just like when a leader calls a general election to try and increase their majority 

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7 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Most likely a calculated move to protect him, just like when a leader calls a general election to try and increase their majority

Interesting concept. Not one I'd thought of. 

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The last few by elections Labour and the LibDems have developed a system to help the strongest candidate. Not withdrawing, still campaigning. But if you look at the votes it's working. LibDems nowhere in Wakefield and Labour from 2nd place to less than 4% of vote in Tiverton. 

 

That should be a big worry for the Tories. (And John Curtice the elections expert has just said this).

Edited by Mikey1874
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The Tories have been trying to manage expectations by saying they expected to lose, mid term blues and all that spin.

Boris won't resign, probably not even if the ethics committee find him guilty.

Only way he'll go is if the party sh1t themselves on expectation of losing their seats but would need a lot of cabinet members to force that.

In any case, there's enough time between now and the election to wreak havoc on the country for their ideologies and paymasters.

What these by elections do show is that if the opposition parties work together, with tactical voting, they can win the next election and get PR in and get these f**kers out permanently. The country is finished otherwise.

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Footballfirst
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

The last few by elections Labour and the LibDems have developed a system to help the strongest candidate. Not withdrawing, still campaigning. But if you look at the votes it's working. LibDems nowhere in Wakefield and Labour from 2nd place to less than 4% of vote in Tiverton. 

 

That should be a big worry for the Tories. (And John Curtice the elections expert has just said this).

It's a form of proportional representation that is countering the normal outcome from the first past the post system.

 

Labour and the Lib Dems are in effect using a single transferrable vote to reject the party that they don't want.

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i wish jj was my dad
2 hours ago, pablo said:

Well if he doesn't resign his party is finished at the next GE. He'll be gone. It's just a matter of time. 

But I guess the question for his bankrollers is what makes more money for them. THey can continue to make more money with a clown at the helm and take their chances that enough people are still stupid enough to vote him back in or if it is worth getting rid now and putting another useful idiot in charge who is slightly more credible and possibly electable. 

 

Either way, the choice will be about what makes more money for them. Not what is in the national interest. 

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The confidence motion was gamed.  The timing was highly suspicious.  Him and his gang aren't just holding the country to ransom.  They're also the squatter gang holding the Tory party to ransom.  ****ing hell mend them for tolerating him in the first place.

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Yet you thought it was ok for the EUref. No problems discriminating against Poles, French and the rest of the EU citizens that lived and worked in the UK. But if someone suggests we do the same. :yadayada:  @jonesy. Scots voted for independence in 2014, Fact. Yet we're still lumbered with Tory filth.

Edited by ri Alban
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1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

It's a form of proportional representation that is countering the normal outcome from the first past the post system.

 

Labour and the Lib Dems are in effect using a single transferrable vote to reject the party that they don't want.

 

There has been talk for years about doing this. Parties should stand down etc. But somehow Labour and Libdems have got it to work without a formal advertised agreement. 

 

As you say its the voters doing it. 

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11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There has been talk for years about doing this. Parties should stand down etc. But somehow Labour and Libdems have got it to work without a formal advertised agreement. 

 

As you say its the voters doing it. 

If I remember rightly,  Blair was ready to have a coalition with the Lib Dems in 97 and introduce PR but when they got a thumping majority,  ditched that. An opportunity lost you have to say.

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Footballfirst
11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There has been talk for years about doing this. Parties should stand down etc. But somehow Labour and Libdems have got it to work without a formal advertised agreement. 

 

As you say its the voters doing it. 

It works well against the Tories with the primarily three party system in England, but is less effective against the SNP with the four party system in Scotland, when Tories are highly unlikely to switch to Labour and vice versa.

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UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011.

 

It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

It works well against the Tories with the primarily three party system in England, but is less effective against the SNP with the four party system in Scotland, when Tories are highly unlikely to switch to Labour and vice versa.

 

To be fair, it's still to be fully tested in Scotland yet. But yes, it wouldn't be nearly as straightforward a tactic.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
3 minutes ago, Cade said:

UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011.

 

It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs.

 

 

Because AV is a shite system that is worse than FPTP. We have it here. STV with multi-member constituencies is the correct way.

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i wish jj was my dad
2 hours ago, Victorian said:

The confidence motion was gamed.  The timing was highly suspicious.  Him and his gang aren't just holding the country to ransom.  They're also the squatter gang holding the Tory party to ransom.  ****ing hell mend them for tolerating him in the first place.

Very, very good post. If there is such a thing as a decent tory and I think there is, they must be feeling very uneasy now. 

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i wish jj was my dad
45 minutes ago, Cade said:

UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011.

 

It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs.

 

 

There must be something in this. Must be.

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John Gentleman
41 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Because AV is a shite system that is worse than FPTP. We have it here. STV with multi-member constituencies is the correct way.

In what way is it worse? Being 'worse' than FPTP takes some doing.

I don't disagree with your last sentence.

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Let them have their esteemed leader take them into the next GE. It'll be hilarious and a lot of these sycophants will be out on their arses for good.

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Weakened Offender
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Yet you thought it was ok for the EUref. No problems discriminating against Poles, French and the rest of the EU citizens that lived and worked in the UK. But if someone suggests we do the same. :yadayada:  @jonesy. Scots voted for independence in 2014, Fact. Yet we're still lumbered with Tory filth.

 

You are making a mistake by taking that attention-seeking hypocrite seriously pal. 

Edited by Weakened Offender
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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 hour ago, Cade said:

UK had a referendum on moving to AV back in 2011.

 

It was soundly beaten. The English like being ruled by Eton toffs.

 

 


The following is not my attitude, just to be clear. But…for all the talk of the cost of living crisis, which is very real, there are plenty of people in England - loads and loads of people - who are well off, have plenty of cash and therefore don’t need to prioritise social issues. The fact is that if you have money (and it doesn’t need to be huge amounts) the Conservative party tend to be the party who let you keep most of it. It’s a horribly selfish and cynical way to think but it explains voting patterns I think. It’s easy to assume that everyone is skint and angry but actually, plenty of people are doing just fine thank you.

 

Society generally need a more collective attitude. The Tories will never generate that or even try to

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