An alternative take......unexpected +++ feelings for Robbie

[johnking123]

Had a great season. Could have been better with a result yesterday, but not to be. Just have to improve team and back Robbie for next season. Few more quality players please!

[The Goalscoring Knee]

9 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016

Very thoughtful and articulate post - and tucked away in there is why some Hearts fans will never be happy until he's gone, however specious that reasoning may be. At least you had the good grace to mention it in your summing up.

[gowestjambo]

This was a one off Cup Final, and we treated it like an away game at Ibrox. It was a Gutless performance to try and win a Major Trophy. Not a single attempt on goal, and people are fawning over Robbie Neilson - Give me a Break!!

 

Robbie Neilson is a fairly good Manager, unless we play Rangers and Celtic........

[i wish jj was my dad]

What Luckies said.

I make secret that I am a fan but for me we need to strengthen the squad. We had no choice but to play 4 guys who were at best 80% fit. In the cold light of day we just aren't strong enough

[Jean Louis Valois]

Good post. I for one think we are really lucky to have Neilson and think he will go from strength to strength as a manager. He will always have his critics but look where we are after less than 2 years in the job, it's night and day. Throw in having a very impressive recruitment team who have brought in quality players, and will continue to do so this summer I'm sure. Robbie still has a lot to learn and experiences like yesterday are only going to make him a better manager, think he is going to be leading us for many years to come.

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, Smithee said:

Hibs didn't thump them at all, they did the same as us, kept it tight for 90 minutes. One of their crosses clicked at just the right time, that's the difference.

Not that I’m bigging up Hibs but not really. The scoring was 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2.

They certainly didn’t thump Rangers but the scoring suggests they were hardly just keeping it tight for 90 minutes.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Thomaso said:

Not that I’m bigging up Hibs but not really. The scoring was 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2.

They certainly didn’t thump Rangers but the scoring suggests they were hardly just keeping it tight for 90 minutes.

Aye I was away talking about a different game, I didn't pay much attention to this one

[Mr Kipling]

Well done OP on a great post. Fully agree. Although I do think RN is a very good manager. He has brought nothing but success to the club with budget teams in his two spells in charge. The success of this season is evident and we do need to be very wise with recruitment for next season. IMO players like Ginnelly have to go - he just isn't good enough. We need much more strength and depth to be able to start competing properly in Europe and with the OF. Looking forward to next season. 

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Aye I was away talking about a different game, I didn't pay much attention to this one

👍

[Jumper]

9 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Full disclosure: I've never been a massive Robbie Neilson fan, as a player or as our manager. Over the years I've regularly questioned why; he's been in the side, why we didn't find and sign better, why numerous managers continued to pick him, once a coach why he appeared extremely risk averse, cautious, defensive even and I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016. So I'm a sceptic, a naysayer and someone he has needed to get back on his side and support his Hearts teams.

 

Which brings me to today, I'm genuinely stunned at the reaction of a significant % of Hearts fans to our approach, our performance and the end result. I hope that the comments and the attitudes are some what influenced by disappointment and drink but I am genuinely surprised by the animosity and rhetoric. For me, a confirmed Neilson doubter, today is actually a day to give him some support and praise. Sorry for this thought and notion but I think he squeezed every ounce out of a very limited Hearts side today and kept us in a game against a talented Rangers team, who correct me if I'm wrong have this season beaten Dortmund, Leipzig, Braga and indeed Celtic in knock out ties. What the hell were people anticipating today????????????? Go at that them and get crucified?

 

I'm reading that tactics were wrong, personnel used incorrectly and subs dubious but seriously folks, we had little chance of success today. This is not the Hearts of 98 (developed magnificently over a couple of seasons by JJ), this was not the electric Hearts of 06 (please wiki the team that faced Gretna, ffs) and this was not the Hearts of 2012 with a talismanic Hearts legend and superstar leading us against garbage opposition. We were huge underdogs today and yet still competed manfully, with 3 or 4 players back from significant injuries and with a weak bench lacking any attacking options (Ginelly, c'mon tae ****). I have wanted a more progressive and positive approach in Glasgow for decades but it is totally wrong to believe today was the time to wish for that, we would have been lambs to the slaughter had we exposed ourselves like that and we gave Rangers as good a game as we can at this time. 

 

When we lost 1-5 and 6 months later 3-4 to Rangers back in the 90's we were building, giving experience and laying foundations and there is reason to be believe similar things are happening just now. Our recruitment is night and day better than in recent seasons, the feel good factor (other than for some tonight, has been returning), we have pull, are an attractive big city club and some finance to back it up with increased salaries and European football, so we have plenty going for us. This is a time to very much stick together. Of course we all want to topple the duopoly, win games like today but we have an enormous opportunity to create a gulf between us in 3rd and the rest. I doubt that has ever existed in Scottish football like it does right now for our club. The financial benefits of groups stage European football and the coefficient over the coming seasons, meaning this should not be a one oft opportunity are immense and can move us well away from your Hibs and Aberdeen's. And that is on top of season ticket sales I predict will be over 15K, European football, Hickey monies etc etc.

 

This is a golden chance for our club and today should be seen as a further catalyst and impetus not something to diminish the place we find ourselves. Rangers were better than us today but we gave everything, lets retain perspective and look forward to a summer of positive and targeted recruitment and an exciting 2022-23 season. Being in that crowd today with 3 generations of my Hearts supporting family was special and there will be days ahead of us that see us come out on top. As I said to my teary nephew this afternoon, I saw us lose 3 Cup Finals before the never to be forgotten win in May 1998 (not to mention semis to Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Airdrie x2) so nothing comes easy, it just makes it all the sweeter when we can celebrate. 

 

We'll support you evermore, 

We'll support you evermore,

Heart of Midlothian,

**** off Hibernian

We'll support you evermore.....

 

You make sense. The haters will still hate though.

[Bunny Munro]

I was worried about this season.

Last summer I'd have taken 6th if it was offered. There was a lot of people (not Hibs fans) on here worried about battling relegation.

 

What I long to see at Hearts is progression. The team getting better, year after year.

 

This year we got 61 points. We were put out if the cups by Celtic at Parkhead and Rangers at Hampden. 

 

So next year the target has to be to improve out points haul, score more goals, conceeded fewer, and we can think about trying to get to Hampden in both cups if the draw is more favourable. We certainly should not be going out of the cup to anyone who isn't Celtic or Rangers, or possibly another top 6 team away from home. We should IMO target 70 points in the league, and two cup semis, draw depending, as a realistic aim.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Bunny Munro

[martoon]

For me, it was a non "typical Hearts performance in Glasgow".

 

We weren't crippled by fear and a goal or two down in the first 20 minutes. We competed with, and matched Rangers, for 70. We fell away badly after that in midfield and up front.

 

Players not 100% fit nor at the same stamina levels of Rangers was our downfall. To say nothing of the quality and quantity of their squad.

 

I've been a stern critic of Robbie in the past but I'm finding the backlash against him a bit baffling.

 

As well as adding to the squad in the summer he also needs to get them fitter.

 

The dunes at Gullane are calling out to be run up. 🏃‍♂️ 

 

A super fit team can take us a step closer to troubling the grue2.

[soonbe110]

47 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

This was a one off Cup Final, and we treated it like an away game at Ibrox. It was a Gutless performance to try and win a Major Trophy. Not a single attempt on goal, and people are fawning over Robbie Neilson - Give me a Break!!

 

Robbie Neilson is a fairly good Manager, unless we play Rangers and Celtic........

Robbie wasn’t on the pitch yesterday    Which players are you categorising as ‘gutless’ from yesterday? 

[chrystaf]

10 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Full disclosure: I've never been a massive Robbie Neilson fan, as a player or as our manager. Over the years I've regularly questioned why; he's been in the side, why we didn't find and sign better, why numerous managers continued to pick him, once a coach why he appeared extremely risk averse, cautious, defensive even and I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016. So I'm a sceptic, a naysayer and someone he has needed to get back on his side and support his Hearts teams.

 

Which brings me to today, I'm genuinely stunned at the reaction of a significant % of Hearts fans to our approach, our performance and the end result. I hope that the comments and the attitudes are some what influenced by disappointment and drink but I am genuinely surprised by the animosity and rhetoric. For me, a confirmed Neilson doubter, today is actually a day to give him some support and praise. Sorry for this thought and notion but I think he squeezed every ounce out of a very limited Hearts side today and kept us in a game against a talented Rangers team, who correct me if I'm wrong have this season beaten Dortmund, Leipzig, Braga and indeed Celtic in knock out ties. What the hell were people anticipating today????????????? Go at that them and get crucified?

 

I'm reading that tactics were wrong, personnel used incorrectly and subs dubious but seriously folks, we had little chance of success today. This is not the Hearts of 98 (developed magnificently over a couple of seasons by JJ), this was not the electric Hearts of 06 (please wiki the team that faced Gretna, ffs) and this was not the Hearts of 2012 with a talismanic Hearts legend and superstar leading us against garbage opposition. We were huge underdogs today and yet still competed manfully, with 3 or 4 players back from significant injuries and with a weak bench lacking any attacking options (Ginelly, c'mon tae ****). I have wanted a more progressive and positive approach in Glasgow for decades but it is totally wrong to believe today was the time to wish for that, we would have been lambs to the slaughter had we exposed ourselves like that and we gave Rangers as good a game as we can at this time. 

 

When we lost 1-5 and 6 months later 3-4 to Rangers back in the 90's we were building, giving experience and laying foundations and there is reason to be believe similar things are happening just now. Our recruitment is night and day better than in recent seasons, the feel good factor (other than for some tonight, has been returning), we have pull, are an attractive big city club and some finance to back it up with increased salaries and European football, so we have plenty going for us. This is a time to very much stick together. Of course we all want to topple the duopoly, win games like today but we have an enormous opportunity to create a gulf between us in 3rd and the rest. I doubt that has ever existed in Scottish football like it does right now for our club. The financial benefits of groups stage European football and the coefficient over the coming seasons, meaning this should not be a one oft opportunity are immense and can move us well away from your Hibs and Aberdeen's. And that is on top of season ticket sales I predict will be over 15K, European football, Hickey monies etc etc.

 

This is a golden chance for our club and today should be seen as a further catalyst and impetus not something to diminish the place we find ourselves. Rangers were better than us today but we gave everything, lets retain perspective and look forward to a summer of positive and targeted recruitment and an exciting 2022-23 season. Being in that crowd today with 3 generations of my Hearts supporting family was special and there will be days ahead of us that see us come out on top. As I said to my teary nephew this afternoon, I saw us lose 3 Cup Finals before the never to be forgotten win in May 1998 (not to mention semis to Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Airdrie x2) so nothing comes easy, it just makes it all the sweeter when we can celebrate. 

 

We'll support you evermore, 

We'll support you evermore,

Heart of Midlothian,

**** off Hibernian

We'll support you evermore.....

 

Post of the weekend....well done mate.  At last a bit of perspective.

 

Give your nephew a hug.

[LarrysRightFoot]

I’m in a similar boat to the OP in that I’ve never been a big Robbie fan - I 100% wanted him out after Brora - however, he has definitely improved us and deserves more time. 
 

Having said that it’s performances like yesterday that are the reason I’m not yet convinced he’s the man for the long term. He says all the right things about mentality and getting results against the OF but he’s yet to deliver on them and his tactics don’t match his words in these games. Im not getting away from we need more quality players to achieve what’s required btw.

 

At the end of the day he’s done more than enough this season to get our backing. This needs to be a building block though, it cannot be a accepted as the peak of what we can achieve. 

[sadj]

10 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Superb stuff! You aint alone.

 

Everyone go back and watch the first 10 mins. Thats what Robbie sent onto the park today. Intent, passion, belief.

 

We traded 10 min spells that first half. Second half onwards a better team than us took control and our boys simply kept trying.

 

I have niggles. Perhaps 532 rather than 523. But hindsight is marvellous.

 

Robbie has our boys fighting for us. Thats important. Dont underestimate it.

 

10 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Full disclosure: I've never been a massive Robbie Neilson fan, as a player or as our manager. Over the years I've regularly questioned why; he's been in the side, why we didn't find and sign better, why numerous managers continued to pick him, once a coach why he appeared extremely risk averse, cautious, defensive even and I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016. So I'm a sceptic, a naysayer and someone he has needed to get back on his side and support his Hearts teams.

 

Which brings me to today, I'm genuinely stunned at the reaction of a significant % of Hearts fans to our approach, our performance and the end result. I hope that the comments and the attitudes are some what influenced by disappointment and drink but I am genuinely surprised by the animosity and rhetoric. For me, a confirmed Neilson doubter, today is actually a day to give him some support and praise. Sorry for this thought and notion but I think he squeezed every ounce out of a very limited Hearts side today and kept us in a game against a talented Rangers team, who correct me if I'm wrong have this season beaten Dortmund, Leipzig, Braga and indeed Celtic in knock out ties. What the hell were people anticipating today????????????? Go at that them and get crucified?

 

I'm reading that tactics were wrong, personnel used incorrectly and subs dubious but seriously folks, we had little chance of success today. This is not the Hearts of 98 (developed magnificently over a couple of seasons by JJ), this was not the electric Hearts of 06 (please wiki the team that faced Gretna, ffs) and this was not the Hearts of 2012 with a talismanic Hearts legend and superstar leading us against garbage opposition. We were huge underdogs today and yet still competed manfully, with 3 or 4 players back from significant injuries and with a weak bench lacking any attacking options (Ginelly, c'mon tae ****). I have wanted a more progressive and positive approach in Glasgow for decades but it is totally wrong to believe today was the time to wish for that, we would have been lambs to the slaughter had we exposed ourselves like that and we gave Rangers as good a game as we can at this time. 

 

When we lost 1-5 and 6 months later 3-4 to Rangers back in the 90's we were building, giving experience and laying foundations and there is reason to be believe similar things are happening just now. Our recruitment is night and day better than in recent seasons, the feel good factor (other than for some tonight, has been returning), we have pull, are an attractive big city club and some finance to back it up with increased salaries and European football, so we have plenty going for us. This is a time to very much stick together. Of course we all want to topple the duopoly, win games like today but we have an enormous opportunity to create a gulf between us in 3rd and the rest. I doubt that has ever existed in Scottish football like it does right now for our club. The financial benefits of groups stage European football and the coefficient over the coming seasons, meaning this should not be a one oft opportunity are immense and can move us well away from your Hibs and Aberdeen's. And that is on top of season ticket sales I predict will be over 15K, European football, Hickey monies etc etc.

 

This is a golden chance for our club and today should be seen as a further catalyst and impetus not something to diminish the place we find ourselves. Rangers were better than us today but we gave everything, lets retain perspective and look forward to a summer of positive and targeted recruitment and an exciting 2022-23 season. Being in that crowd today with 3 generations of my Hearts supporting family was special and there will be days ahead of us that see us come out on top. As I said to my teary nephew this afternoon, I saw us lose 3 Cup Finals before the never to be forgotten win in May 1998 (not to mention semis to Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Airdrie x2) so nothing comes easy, it just makes it all the sweeter when we can celebrate. 

 

We'll support you evermore, 

We'll support you evermore,

Heart of Midlothian,

**** off Hibernian

We'll support you evermore.....

 

Have avoided here as I figured it would be the usual absolute idiots and clueless ****s banging the ground with their clubs going Ugggg Robbie bad!!! Going by the threads on the main page and the few posts iv read i was right to avoid it.
 

However, these two posts are utterly superb they are articulate, measured and despite being disappointed they have made good points which the knuckledraggers wont understand. I hope we can continue to build, I hope recruitment is good over the summer because our squad at present give everything for us and the manager and if we can pick up a few good acquisitions to cover the positions our quality drops with a replacement or an injury we can go from strength to strength and hopefully we can see another JJ style build to where we can take a cup and maybe just maybe get the League Cup back home too. Its an exciting time at Tynecastle and weve been unlucky to have had Celtic, Celtic and Rangers in the last three Cup Finals. Never forget the Future is Maroon
 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by sadj

[Chillidigits]

Yes we've had a great season . However it was hard to watch our display from second half onwards yesterday. The Rangers defence just strolled through the game. In a cup final when our adrenaline should have been pumping we gave them the day off. I agree with all the optimism moving forward but when you see no signs of your team pressing the opposition's defence at all in a final it's very disappionting.

[asomerville]

Interesting post and agree with most of it. The big difference between Hearts and the evil twins is money and you saw that on the pitch yesterday. Also Hearts have been cruise control since Christmas as 3rd place has been in the bag for so long. Hopefully with a bigger squad next season we can win something and build on this season. To all who say Robbie should go I think they are wrong. He knows the club and understands what it means to wear the colours. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

We simply ran out of gas yesterday with a number of players not fully fit. The players on the bench are not the standard I expect to see next season when I believe we will see game changers there. I am still disappointed we didn't test their defence more but given how unlucky we have been with injuries we did well to take it to extra time. Robbie has produced a much more free flowing team now but yesterday we weren't firing on all cylinders and even if we were the gulf in quality would still have been there. Onwards to better things next season!

[Voxpop]

the gulf between us and the old firm is vast.  Equivalent of the gap between Rangers and Real Madrid.  If we played rangers 20 times I would expect us to lose 16, draw 3 and win 1.  We have to hope that it’s our day.  It almost was yesterday.

[LarrysRightFoot]

Just now, Voxpop said:

the gulf between us and the old firm is vast.  Equivalent of the gap between Rangers and Real Madrid.  If we played rangers 20 times I would expect us to lose 16, draw 3 and win 1.  We have to hope that it’s our day.  It almost was yesterday.

But by whatever means we must try to close the gap. On one off occasions in particular you must find a way to win. 
 

Nobody, especially the Scottish football authorities and other clubs (despite what Ron Gordon says) are going to do anything to help improve Scottish football and make it more competitive. 
 

We must find a way - maybe Mr Anderson can get Musk to invest a spare billion into us. 

[132goals1958]

I also agree with most of the opening post appraisal but as I saw the clock turning to 80 minutes I was hoping we would get a second wind and fashion a couple of chances by throwing a bit caution to the wind. Suppose with us being on the back foot and so much resolute defending it was always going to be a long shot, 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Jumper said:

You make sense. The haters will still hate though.

 

Absolutely, even if we'd have won yesterday, the haters would only wait until the next defeat and then start their pish again.

 

Come to think of it, most of the Robbie haters have been fairly quiet this season....

[gowestjambo]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Robbie wasn’t on the pitch yesterday    Which players are you categorising as ‘gutless’ from yesterday? 

 

The whole Management team and Players displayed a Gutless attitude to try and win one of only two trophies we are likely to win.

[hmfc1440]

Stick with your original view!

[tartofmidlothian]

12 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Full disclosure: I've never been a massive Robbie Neilson fan, as a player or as our manager. Over the years I've regularly questioned why; he's been in the side, why we didn't find and sign better, why numerous managers continued to pick him, once a coach why he appeared extremely risk averse, cautious, defensive even and I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016. So I'm a sceptic, a naysayer and someone he has needed to get back on his side and support his Hearts teams.

 

Which brings me to today, I'm genuinely stunned at the reaction of a significant % of Hearts fans to our approach, our performance and the end result. I hope that the comments and the attitudes are some what influenced by disappointment and drink but I am genuinely surprised by the animosity and rhetoric. For me, a confirmed Neilson doubter, today is actually a day to give him some support and praise. Sorry for this thought and notion but I think he squeezed every ounce out of a very limited Hearts side today and kept us in a game against a talented Rangers team, who correct me if I'm wrong have this season beaten Dortmund, Leipzig, Braga and indeed Celtic in knock out ties. What the hell were people anticipating today????????????? Go at that them and get crucified?

 

I'm reading that tactics were wrong, personnel used incorrectly and subs dubious but seriously folks, we had little chance of success today. This is not the Hearts of 98 (developed magnificently over a couple of seasons by JJ), this was not the electric Hearts of 06 (please wiki the team that faced Gretna, ffs) and this was not the Hearts of 2012 with a talismanic Hearts legend and superstar leading us against garbage opposition. We were huge underdogs today and yet still competed manfully, with 3 or 4 players back from significant injuries and with a weak bench lacking any attacking options (Ginelly, c'mon tae ****). I have wanted a more progressive and positive approach in Glasgow for decades but it is totally wrong to believe today was the time to wish for that, we would have been lambs to the slaughter had we exposed ourselves like that and we gave Rangers as good a game as we can at this time. 

 

When we lost 1-5 and 6 months later 3-4 to Rangers back in the 90's we were building, giving experience and laying foundations and there is reason to be believe similar things are happening just now. Our recruitment is night and day better than in recent seasons, the feel good factor (other than for some tonight, has been returning), we have pull, are an attractive big city club and some finance to back it up with increased salaries and European football, so we have plenty going for us. This is a time to very much stick together. Of course we all want to topple the duopoly, win games like today but we have an enormous opportunity to create a gulf between us in 3rd and the rest. I doubt that has ever existed in Scottish football like it does right now for our club. The financial benefits of groups stage European football and the coefficient over the coming seasons, meaning this should not be a one oft opportunity are immense and can move us well away from your Hibs and Aberdeen's. And that is on top of season ticket sales I predict will be over 15K, European football, Hickey monies etc etc.

 

This is a golden chance for our club and today should be seen as a further catalyst and impetus not something to diminish the place we find ourselves. Rangers were better than us today but we gave everything, lets retain perspective and look forward to a summer of positive and targeted recruitment and an exciting 2022-23 season. Being in that crowd today with 3 generations of my Hearts supporting family was special and there will be days ahead of us that see us come out on top. As I said to my teary nephew this afternoon, I saw us lose 3 Cup Finals before the never to be forgotten win in May 1998 (not to mention semis to Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Airdrie x2) so nothing comes easy, it just makes it all the sweeter when we can celebrate. 

 

We'll support you evermore, 

We'll support you evermore,

Heart of Midlothian,

**** off Hibernian

We'll support you evermore.....

 

 

Outstanding OP, brilliant stuff.

 

That match yesterday taught us two things. One is that both halves of the OF are back to being as hard to catch as ever. The other is that our team and our manager have the ability and the nous to consolidate everything we've achieved this season and keep us strong in third.

[Luckies1874]

6 hours ago, 1953 said:

We weren't just waiting for rangers to score, we were desperately trying to stop them scoring and managed it for more than 90 mins. Once rangers took control of the game in the second half we had no choice but to defend for our lives. Any time we did get the ball they just took it off us, it's no fair! I can't and won't blame Robbie for rangers being streets ahead of us. 

 

 

Absolutely this. It is completely wrong to suggest we turned up beaten already, simply waiting for Rangers to score. That is evidenced by the tremendous performances by our 2 centre half who have both been out for weeks throwing themselves in front of shots, heading away everything that was played into our box and continually galvanising their team mates.  We had a game plan that allowed us the best possible chance of success given the circumstances and that likelihood of success was always small. We were never going to have a glut of chances and when we did have an opening or two, in the first half, we blew them and/or didn't have the required class in the final 3rd. It didn't happen for Boyce or Simms and McKay, as yet, hasn't done it in 'big' games. 

 

I read an article last week (see below) where JJ talks about the tactics for the 98 Cup Final after we had taken several heavy beatings from Rangers and to be honest we setup in a very similar fashion as yesterday. The difference being we had a top drawer side littered with some players who are seen as Hearts greats. We also scored early and had something to hang onto, had pace to break, significant prior experience and a date with destiny. It was also in the days of 3 subs being available off the bench, Rangers had 11 yesterday another advantage that the Old Firm now hold. Robbie had few luxuries yesterday as evidenced by our options or lack of. 

 

The disappointment for me will only come if this season and yesterday's experience is wasted over the next 12-24-36 months when we should be establishing ourselves as the 3rd force consistently and taking advantage of the great opportunities that exist. There should be absolutely no reason, given the co-efficient, that what awaits us in the Autumn is a one off. We should regularly be involved in group stage European football and the relative riches that will bring our club. That finance alone will see us significantly increase the budget and wage structure over those wishing to challenge us. Savage may well be the most important person in our club and the signs are positive that he will up to the task. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51679823

Edited May 22, 2022 by Luckies1874

[Deid Heid]

Agree 100% with OP

I've always doubted Bob's ability as a player and a manager...until this season.

This is just the beginning, not the end.

[Fort Vallance]

9 hours ago, Kirky Jambo said:

Afraid I can’t get on board with the OP.

 

It was a pathetic performance. We were just waiting for Rangers to score. 
 

Yes they are a good side and better than us, but bear in mind a very poor Hibs thumped them at Hampden. Make no mistake, it was a great opportunity for us and we didn’t come anywhere close to grasping it.

 

In my opinion it is important we don’t accept that (Hibs-ish attitude) and instead we should criticize players and management for letting us down badly on the big stage. I really think our horrendous end of season form was a contributing factor.

 

Good season on the whole, but let’s not pretend yesterday was anywhere near acceptable.

Nailed it.

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Not that I’m bigging up Hibs but not really. The scoring was 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2.

They certainly didn’t thump Rangers but the scoring suggests they were hardly just keeping it tight for 90 minutes.

That Rangers side were literally not in the same league as the one we played yesterday. 

[Gambo]

9 hours ago, Kirky Jambo said:

Afraid I can’t get on board with the OP.

 

It was a pathetic performance. We were just waiting for Rangers to score. 
 

Yes they are a good side and better than us, but bear in mind a very poor Hibs thumped them at Hampden. Make no mistake, it was a great opportunity for us and we didn’t come anywhere close to grasping it.

 

In my opinion it is important we don’t accept that (Hibs-ish attitude) and instead we should criticize players and management for letting us down badly on the big stage. I really think our horrendous end of season form was a contributing factor.

 

Good season on the whole, but let’s not pretend yesterday was anywhere near acceptable.

👍👏👏

[briever]

9 hours ago, Kirky Jambo said:

Afraid I can’t get on board with the OP.

 

It was a pathetic performance. We were just waiting for Rangers to score. 
 

Yes they are a good side and better than us, but bear in mind a very poor Hibs thumped them at Hampden. Make no mistake, it was a great opportunity for us and we didn’t come anywhere close to grasping it.

 

In my opinion it is important we don’t accept that (Hibs-ish attitude) and instead we should criticize players and management for letting us down badly on the big stage. I really think our horrendous end of season form was a contributing factor.

 

Good season on the whole, but let’s not pretend yesterday was anywhere near acceptable.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Francis Albert]

As always there is disappoinemt after a defeat. And over the top criticism. But not one shot on target in over 120 minutes is indefensible. Even Brora Rangers did better faced with at least as big a gap in resources.

 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

That Rangers side were literally not in the same league as the one we played yesterday. 

Absolutely correct. 2016 was a chance passed up.

[Thomaso]

6 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

Outstanding OP, brilliant stuff.

 

That match yesterday taught us two things. One is that both halves of the OF are back to being as hard to catch as ever. The other is that our team and our manager have the ability and the nous to consolidate everything we've achieved this season and keep us strong in third.

What a sporting life we have up here in the cesspit of OF domination.

3rd is the best we can realistically hope for with the occasional cup win, but I’m a Hearts fan, always will be, so be it!

[Jammy T]

Truth is - most of you will deny this - we don’t win 2006 and 2012 without one person. Rudi Skacel.

 

It is on such shoulders cups are often won.

 

We can win without a “Skacel” - but only if we have 4 or so players of class that can dominate a game.

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

What a sporting life we have up here in the cesspit of OF domination.

3rd is the best we can realistically hope for with the occasional cup win, but I’m a Hearts fan, always will be, so be it!

 

To be fair it's something that leagues way bigger than ours are suffering from too!

 

Bayern just won their 10th Bundesliga title on the bounce

PSG have won 8 of the last 10 in Ligue 1

Man City have 4 of the last 5 in EPL 

Of the last 18 La Liga's, Barca have 10, Real 6 and Athletic 2

And after a long run of success for Juventus (9 on the bounce), Inter and AC have taken 1 each

 

So there are massive clubs all over Europe competing against the odds in the same way we are, almost trying to win a league within their league to get into Europe. It is nearly 20 years since we finished 3rd in consecutive seasons (2002-03 and 2003-04) and it should be a goal, frankly a stated one, that we go and finish 3rd next season and the season after that. Prove ourselves as not just the 3rd best supported club with the 3rd biggest revenues but actually on the field. This would almost definitely see us again playing group stage European football meaning an 8 figure sum of money into the club. That will generically grow the club and the budget for the playing side. We should be looking to extend our advantage over the Hibs and Aberdeen's in exactly the same way Rangers and Celtic have over us. It's a huge opportunity for Hearts.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

To be fair it's something that leagues way bigger than ours are suffering from too!

 

Bayern just won their 10th Bundesliga title on the bounce

PSG have won 8 of the last 10 in Ligue 1

Man City have 4 of the last 5 in EPL 

Of the last 18 La Liga's, Barca have 10, Real 6 and Athletic 2

And after a long run of success for Juventus (9 on the bounce), Inter and AC have taken 1 each

 

So there are massive clubs all over Europe competing against the odds in the same way we are, almost trying to win a league within their league to get into Europe. It is nearly 20 years since we finished 3rd in consecutive seasons (2002-03 and 2003-04) and it should be a goal, frankly a stated one, that we go and finish 3rd next season and the season after that. Prove ourselves as not just the 3rd best supported club with the 3rd biggest revenues but actually on the field. This would almost definitely see us again playing group stage European football meaning an 8 figure sum of money into the club. That will generically grow the club and the budget for the playing side. We should be looking to extend our advantage over the Hibs and Aberdeen's in exactly the same way Rangers and Celtic have over us. It's a huge opportunity for Hearts.

Its only a huge opportunity to galvanise our position in 3rd place behind the OF. The really big bucks are in the group stages of the champions League.

[Luckies1874]

Just now, Thomaso said:

Its only a huge opportunity to galvanise our position in 3rd place behind the OF. The really big bucks are in the group stages of the champions League.

 

Of course but right now it's simply unrealistic to compete with them over 38 matches. They are back being very competitive with each other, wouldn't;t like to predict who will win the league between them next season. But Hearts have the opportunity to start bringing in 5-6-7 million more each season, over several seasons and that is monumental for us. If even 25% (and hopefully it might be nearer 50) of that goes into the budget then we are in a hugely stronger position. If Savage its given an 'extra' 2 million that might equate to 5 players earning 8k a week or 4 players earning 10k a week! It's huge.

[upgotheheads]

18 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Full disclosure: I've never been a massive Robbie Neilson fan, as a player or as our manager. Over the years I've regularly questioned why; he's been in the side, why we didn't find and sign better, why numerous managers continued to pick him, once a coach why he appeared extremely risk averse, cautious, defensive even and I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016. So I'm a sceptic, a naysayer and someone he has needed to get back on his side and support his Hearts teams.

 

Which brings me to today, I'm genuinely stunned at the reaction of a significant % of Hearts fans to our approach, our performance and the end result. I hope that the comments and the attitudes are some what influenced by disappointment and drink but I am genuinely surprised by the animosity and rhetoric. For me, a confirmed Neilson doubter, today is actually a day to give him some support and praise. Sorry for this thought and notion but I think he squeezed every ounce out of a very limited Hearts side today and kept us in a game against a talented Rangers team, who correct me if I'm wrong have this season beaten Dortmund, Leipzig, Braga and indeed Celtic in knock out ties. What the hell were people anticipating today????????????? Go at that them and get crucified?

 

I'm reading that tactics were wrong, personnel used incorrectly and subs dubious but seriously folks, we had little chance of success today. This is not the Hearts of 98 (developed magnificently over a couple of seasons by JJ), this was not the electric Hearts of 06 (please wiki the team that faced Gretna, ffs) and this was not the Hearts of 2012 with a talismanic Hearts legend and superstar leading us against garbage opposition. We were huge underdogs today and yet still competed manfully, with 3 or 4 players back from significant injuries and with a weak bench lacking any attacking options (Ginelly, c'mon tae ****). I have wanted a more progressive and positive approach in Glasgow for decades but it is totally wrong to believe today was the time to wish for that, we would have been lambs to the slaughter had we exposed ourselves like that and we gave Rangers as good a game as we can at this time. 

 

When we lost 1-5 and 6 months later 3-4 to Rangers back in the 90's we were building, giving experience and laying foundations and there is reason to be believe similar things are happening just now. Our recruitment is night and day better than in recent seasons, the feel good factor (other than for some tonight, has been returning), we have pull, are an attractive big city club and some finance to back it up with increased salaries and European football, so we have plenty going for us. This is a time to very much stick together. Of course we all want to topple the duopoly, win games like today but we have an enormous opportunity to create a gulf between us in 3rd and the rest. I doubt that has ever existed in Scottish football like it does right now for our club. The financial benefits of groups stage European football and the coefficient over the coming seasons, meaning this should not be a one oft opportunity are immense and can move us well away from your Hibs and Aberdeen's. And that is on top of season ticket sales I predict will be over 15K, European football, Hickey monies etc etc.

 

This is a golden chance for our club and today should be seen as a further catalyst and impetus not something to diminish the place we find ourselves. Rangers were better than us today but we gave everything, lets retain perspective and look forward to a summer of positive and targeted recruitment and an exciting 2022-23 season. Being in that crowd today with 3 generations of my Hearts supporting family was special and there will be days ahead of us that see us come out on top. As I said to my teary nephew this afternoon, I saw us lose 3 Cup Finals before the never to be forgotten win in May 1998 (not to mention semis to Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Airdrie x2) so nothing comes easy, it just makes it all the sweeter when we can celebrate. 

 

We'll support you evermore, 

We'll support you evermore,

Heart of Midlothian,

**** off Hibernian

We'll support you evermore.....

 

 

Well said, I've been thinking much the same all day but golf and beer got in the way until now. You've saved me the bother of posting.

[ford donald]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

As always there is disappoinemt after a defeat. And over the top criticism. But not one shot on target in over 120 minutes is indefensible. Even Brora Rangers did better faced with at least as big a gap in resources.

 

 

Yes,the stats don't lie.

[briever]

8 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 

Yes,the stats don't lie.

Actually I think they do - the stats after yesterday said Rangers only had 60% posession.

[Philfigo]

100% agree with OP, just watched the full a full re run of the game and we gave everything we could with effort and commitment. Just not enough quality in  the squad when bringing on subs. 

[jock _turd]

20 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

Full disclosure: I've never been a massive Robbie Neilson fan, as a player or as our manager. Over the years I've regularly questioned why; he's been in the side, why we didn't find and sign better, why numerous managers continued to pick him, once a coach why he appeared extremely risk averse, cautious, defensive even and I had (still have) a chip on my shoulder about is influence on Hibs winning the Cup in 2016. So I'm a sceptic, a naysayer and someone he has needed to get back on his side and support his Hearts teams.

 

Which brings me to today, I'm genuinely stunned at the reaction of a significant % of Hearts fans to our approach, our performance and the end result. I hope that the comments and the attitudes are some what influenced by disappointment and drink but I am genuinely surprised by the animosity and rhetoric. For me, a confirmed Neilson doubter, today is actually a day to give him some support and praise. Sorry for this thought and notion but I think he squeezed every ounce out of a very limited Hearts side today and kept us in a game against a talented Rangers team, who correct me if I'm wrong have this season beaten Dortmund, Leipzig, Braga and indeed Celtic in knock out ties. What the hell were people anticipating today????????????? Go at that them and get crucified?

 

I'm reading that tactics were wrong, personnel used incorrectly and subs dubious but seriously folks, we had little chance of success today. This is not the Hearts of 98 (developed magnificently over a couple of seasons by JJ), this was not the electric Hearts of 06 (please wiki the team that faced Gretna, ffs) and this was not the Hearts of 2012 with a talismanic Hearts legend and superstar leading us against garbage opposition. We were huge underdogs today and yet still competed manfully, with 3 or 4 players back from significant injuries and with a weak bench lacking any attacking options (Ginelly, c'mon tae ****). I have wanted a more progressive and positive approach in Glasgow for decades but it is totally wrong to believe today was the time to wish for that, we would have been lambs to the slaughter had we exposed ourselves like that and we gave Rangers as good a game as we can at this time. 

 

When we lost 1-5 and 6 months later 3-4 to Rangers back in the 90's we were building, giving experience and laying foundations and there is reason to be believe similar things are happening just now. Our recruitment is night and day better than in recent seasons, the feel good factor (other than for some tonight, has been returning), we have pull, are an attractive big city club and some finance to back it up with increased salaries and European football, so we have plenty going for us. This is a time to very much stick together. Of course we all want to topple the duopoly, win games like today but we have an enormous opportunity to create a gulf between us in 3rd and the rest. I doubt that has ever existed in Scottish football like it does right now for our club. The financial benefits of groups stage European football and the coefficient over the coming seasons, meaning this should not be a one oft opportunity are immense and can move us well away from your Hibs and Aberdeen's. And that is on top of season ticket sales I predict will be over 15K, European football, Hickey monies etc etc.

 

This is a golden chance for our club and today should be seen as a further catalyst and impetus not something to diminish the place we find ourselves. Rangers were better than us today but we gave everything, lets retain perspective and look forward to a summer of positive and targeted recruitment and an exciting 2022-23 season. Being in that crowd today with 3 generations of my Hearts supporting family was special and there will be days ahead of us that see us come out on top. As I said to my teary nephew this afternoon, I saw us lose 3 Cup Finals before the never to be forgotten win in May 1998 (not to mention semis to Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Airdrie x2) so nothing comes easy, it just makes it all the sweeter when we can celebrate. 

 

We'll support you evermore, 

We'll support you evermore,

Heart of Midlothian,

**** off Hibernian

We'll support you evermore.....

 

 See the problem with this post is that it is far to sensible and  measured . The sort of post a great many on here adhered to yesterday was of vitriol and spite against a man doing a good job with limited resources. What we should have done was gone out and given them a doing... simple according to the armchair managers on here!

[jam doughnut]

1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

But Hearts have the opportunity to start bringing in 5-6-7 million more each season, over several seasons and that is monumental for us. 

Indeed. It will be interesting to see how risk averse Hearts are regarding the quantity and quality of player brought in, length and contract terms offered and a higher level of supporting infrastructure. If third place and further European football secured is not consolidated at the end of next season with the significant additional funds available, the club including Neilson and Savage will be privy to dereliction of duty.
 

Though better quality players, back room coaches, superior infrastructure et al incurs commitment to significant funds beyond one or two seasons and if, for whatever reason, third place and European football consolidation doesn’t materialise, will lead to financial challenges ahead.

 

Hearts are now entering a totally new ballgame. We can’t stick but how far will we twist?

 

 

[Luckies1874]

8 minutes ago, jam doughnut said:

Indeed. It will be interesting to see how risk averse Hearts are regarding the quantity and quality of player brought in, length and contract terms offered and a higher level of supporting infrastructure. If third place and further European football secured is not consolidated at the end of next season with the significant additional funds available, the club including Neilson and Savage will be privy to dereliction of duty.
 

Though better quality players, back room coaches, superior infrastructure et al incurs commitment to significant funds beyond one or two seasons and if, for whatever reason, third place and European football consolidation doesn’t materialise, will lead to financial challenges ahead.

 

Hearts are now entering a totally new ballgame. We can’t stick but how far will we twist?

 

 

 

Good post and I've been thinking exactly the same thing. It's going to be intriguing to see how we play things. The revenue streams will never have been higher in our history but what will the board deem sensible to add to the existing budget.

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, 151 said:

I like Robbie. I love having staff at the club who actually love Hearts and 'get it'.

 

I wanted us to have a go yesterday and that lasted 45 mins like you say.

 

To not have 1 shot on target in a cup final (i know, Simms technically is on target) is pretty embarrasing for us on national TV - regardless of how much we support Neilson and the players. If you take Gordon's superb saves away and their misses from point blank headers we were crucified without having a go anyway so that's the part I disagree with. I would have preffered to get skelpt and have a go and be brave. Standing watching their keeper with the ball under his foot at 2-0 down in extra time isn't good enough.

 

If it was fitness that was an issue he shouldn't have chose that team - when I looked at the team sheet I said that was the best 11 we have and was the team everyone would have wanted (maybe minus Beni). However if they can't last we should have just sacrificed it for others. 

 

But listen, had we nicked it 1-0 it would have been a masterclass of tactics and a fantastic performance.

 

That's football. 

 

My only worry is we have lost 3 out the last 4 Scottish cup finals.

It's all very well saying we should have had a go, but if we'd had a go we'd have been absolutely hammered.  We won the final in 98 basically by trying to keep it as tight as possible and catch them on the break when we could. JJ has said that publicly. It worked in large part thanks to us getting a slightly questionable penalty in the first minute and Amoruso completely failing to read a long ball in the second half, plus Rangers missed numerous great chances and our keeper pulled off some great saves.  We didn’t get a (possibly fortunate) penalty early on yesterday and their defence didn't make any big blunders.  That's probably about the difference between 1998 and 2022.  If you really don't want us to have any chance of winning games like yesterday, and would prefer us to just get beaten by a cricket score, by all means keep calling for us to "have a go".  Meanwhile, the management will keep trying to use tactics that give us at least a small chance of a win.  It often won't work, like yesterday, but occasionally it will, like in 98 (and like in the 2006 semi)!

[Morgan]

I’ve just seen this thread.

 

It’s magic.  👍

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, naeclue said:

It struck me that we’ve been third for months, and we’ve lost a bit of an edge as a result. Rangers were a bit knackered, but very much battle hardened. I think (sadly) van Bronkhurst is an excellent coach. 
 

Shipping two goals quickly knocked us out. I think 1 down we might have dusted ourselves down, got some impetus and they slip into defence mode.

 

We didn't show up after half time, and I think there are questions to answer regarding that.  

I think we lost a bit of an edge due to having something of an injury crisis over the last couple of months. Beni, Devlin, Souttar, Halkett, Smith, Kingsley, Halliday and Mackay-Steven have all been out for at least two or three weeks, and most of them several weeks or more, with Boyce and Simms (probably others too) carrying knocks in the build up to the final. We lost an edge as a team because we've regularly had to field a team where at least half of the outfield players starting wouldn't normally get a game. Unfortunately, we don't have the depth of quality in the squad to bring in replacements of similar quality to our first choices. Hopefully we'll be able to improve that situation a bit over the summer with an increased budget thanks to the success we have achieved this season. 

[Greedy Jambo]

He's a safe pair of hands, but at the same time, where would we be without Craig Gordon?

In my opinion we need to upgrade the manager along with the players if we're to go any further. 

There's a difference between having ambition and being able to fulfil it.