ScotRail

[jambo89]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I've no opinion on their pay and whether they are worth it, nor do I feel they shouldn't be allowed to strike.

 

My opinion on it is that they're tone deaf and being selfish when they're publicly funded and there are people out there genuinely struggling right now and as such they may find their actions don't have a lot of public support. They're more than entitled to do it though.

This is true at almost any point in time, there is never a good time to strike for some people and being publicly funded shouldn't have any bearing on peoples attitude (I know it probably will due to the poltical spectrum in this country). My personal view point is that the starting point is to support those workers who endeavour to improve their lives through greater pay and conditions and would take a lot to convince me to fall on the other side (i.e. the side of big business')

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

This is true at almost any point in time, there is never a good time to strike for some people and being publicly funded shouldn't have any bearing on peoples attitude (I know it probably will due to the poltical spectrum in this country). My personal view point is that the starting point is to support those workers who endeavour to improve their lives through greater pay and conditions and would take a lot to convince me to fall on the other side (i.e. the side of big business')

 

Being publicly funded absolutely does have a bearing on it...precisely because it's not falling on the side of big business, it's falling on the side of every person who's paying towards it.

 

I'll never be convinced to fall on the side of folk on £50k+ looking to take more money out the pockets of the populace, some of whom are being absolutely crushed by the current financial climate.

[fabienleclerq]

44 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Do the tories run ScotRail? Or is this just some form of whataboutery?

 

 

You asked for examples , I gave you some of governments finding money when they need it. Seems to be an issue for the public purse when it's workers.

 

 

[jambo89]

21 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Being publicly funded absolutely does have a bearing on it...precisely because it's not falling on the side of big business, it's falling on the side of every person who's paying towards it.

 

I'll never be convinced to fall on the side of folk on £50k+ looking to take more money out the pockets of the populace, some of whom are being absolutely crushed by the current financial climate.

You have no opinon on their pay but then go on to mention their pay to try to validate your viewpoint. Lets just be honest here, everyone slamming the workers trying to improve their pay are bitter. That's just about the crux of the matter.

[Taffin]

Just now, jambo89 said:

You have no opinon on their pay but then go on to mention their pay to try to validate your viewpoint. Lets just be honest here, everyone slamming the workers trying to improve their pay are bitter. That's just about the crux of the matter.

 

I've no opinion on their pay. I've an opinion on them wanting more.

 

Why would I be bitter about their pay? 😂

[jambo89]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I've no opinion on their pay. I've an opinion on them wanting more.

 

Why would I be bitter about their pay? 😂

Aye okay then. Why bring it up then if you have no opinion. You clearly do have an opinion on it or you wouldn't have mentioned it and then mention it again above. You have an issue with them wanting more, ergo you feel they earn too much. If they earned £12,000 a year your opinion on them wanting more might be different i would think so pretending like you don't think they earn too much is laughable!

[Ainsley Harriott]

Given they work weekends and evenings 54k is a reasonable salary for the job I reckon 

[Taffin]

11 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

Aye okay then. Why bring it up then if you have no opinion. You clearly do have an opinion on it or you wouldn't have mentioned it and then mention it again above. You have an issue with them wanting more, ergo you feel they earn too much. If they earned £12,000 a year your opinion on them wanting more might be different i would think so pretending like you don't think they earn too much is laughable!

 

I don't feel they earn too much. I feel they are wrong to want more currently at the expense of many who can ill-afford to provide it.

 

I genuinely don't get why that's a particularly difficult concept to grasp. The bit in bold suggests limited reasoning, what if I thought what they earn currently is just right?

 

Of course my opinion would be different if they earned £12k, because they'd be in the category of people who are struggling. It still doesn't mean I think their current remuneration is too much, just that right now isn't the time to seek more when already on a comfortable salary. They're entitled to do so, but I'm entitled to think it's greedy and tone deaf.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Taffin

[il Duce McTarkin]

9 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Given they work weekends and evenings 54k is a reasonable salary for the job I reckon 

 

Agreed.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Given they work weekends and evenings 54k is a reasonable salary for the job I reckon 

 

So do bus drivers and other service workers.  None earning 54k.

[Ked]

1 hour ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Given they work weekends and evenings 54k is a reasonable salary for the job I reckon 

54 not just for a 35 hour week?

 

 

 

[henryheart]

2 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Extreme circumstances then

 

Although with regard to the service in general I think, as someone said earlier, its ridiculous for scotrail to be depending on overtime & additional shifts to maintain the timetable.

 

Inevitably there are no shows resulting in cancellations. 

 

That's no ****ing good for the customer.

 

It has always been like that. The drivers want it because it gives them the chance to boost their wages and the union wants it for that reason plus the fact that it can be used as a negotiating tool in pay disputes as drivers can withhold their labour and cause the rail operator a problem. Neither the union or the drivers want a whole stack of new drivers to be trained up, and under normal conditions Scotrail don't want it either as it increases the wage bill. Reading between the lines, it appears that the union is far from impressed by the Scottish Government's lack of understanding of how the industry works.    

[Konrad von Carstein]

6 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

It has always been like that. The drivers want it because it gives them the chance to boost their wages and the union wants it for that reason plus the fact that it can be used as a negotiating tool in pay disputes as drivers can withhold their labour and cause the rail operator a problem. Neither the union or the drivers want a whole stack of new drivers to be trained up, and under normal conditions Scotrail don't want it either as it increases the wage bill. Reading between the lines, it appears that the union is far from impressed by the Scottish Government's lack of understanding of how the industry works.    

Doing things because "we've always done it this way" is not good practice.

Especially when,  as in the case of scotrail, it causes issues for their customer base.

 

[1874robbo]

41 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So do bus drivers and other service workers.  None earning 54k.

Yeh because bus drivers do the same job as a train driver right enough.

😂😂

[Ked]

7 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Yeh because bus drivers do the same job as a train driver right enough.

😂😂

What's so difficult about driving a train ?

[henryheart]

2 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Doing things because "we've always done it this way" is not good practice.

Especially when,  as in the case of scotrail, it causes issues for their customer base.

 

 

I agree, but in this case it is not about having 'always done it this way' or about it not being good practice.  I used the train to get to work for 25 years and this 'not good practice' did not cause problems in the way it has now. Whether the rail service is provided by either the public or the private sector, there is a duty of financial care. To teach drivers and employ drivers is not cheap and it is much more economical to pay overtime. The Scottish Government, which has no experience of running a rail service and which has admitted to not having engaged with other rail providers on how to run a service, has taken it's own approach which has been instrumental in where we are now. If Abellio still had the franchise there is no way it would be cutting the services and impacting on the customer base in the way that the government has.

[Ked]

K54 grand for a 35 hour week.

29 per hour.

Do 10 hours at enhanced rates.

I will go time and a half .

450 x 52 over the year gives you 24 grand roughly.

78 grand a year.

Plus free and cut price travel.

An incomes based pension with lump sum attachments.

Paid for by the people they are supposed to get to work.

My heart fekin bleeds.

 

Now I read early on that in comparison to other companies Scotrail paid less.

All I could find was the Eurostar .

 

So first class training provided.

Good conditions

Generous pension 

Decent basic salary .

And a couple of communists smoking their fat arsed of with cigars grinding the country to a halt.

Wonder if Putins been on the phone.

Meanwhile the people whose taxes pay for these well paid jobs and the costly fares are left scrambling.

And please don't give the whataboutety of governments finding money for other shit.

 

So again I ask what's so difficult about driving a train ?

 

[John Findlay]

25 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

 

So again I ask what's so difficult about driving a train ?

 

Why don't you apply to be a train driver and find out?

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Why don't you apply to be a train driver and find out?

I could apply for a lot of jobs.

Someone asked about bus driving and was mocked as if to suggest driving a train was more difficult.

So I thought I'd ask.

 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, 1874robbo said:

Yeh because bus drivers do the same job as a train driver right enough.

😂😂

 

 

Your argument was over 54k for a 35 hour week because working weekends makes them "unique". 

 

I called it out as bollocks.

 

They should be on a 7 day rota system.  Perhaps getting extra staff in will drive salaries down because they can't hold commuters to ransom over work to rule?

[John Findlay]

19 minutes ago, Ked said:

I could apply for a lot of jobs.

Someone asked about bus driving and was mocked as if to suggest driving a train was more difficult.

So I thought I'd ask.

 

It takes far longer to train as a train driver than it does a bus driver. That I can assure you of.

[Victorian]

I'm a trade unionist and former rep but,  looking at what train drivers earn and allied to the current economic situation,  I can't give them any support whatsoever in trying to blackmail a large pay rise.

 

I'm also highly suspicious of the trade union's political motives in regard to this dispute,  considering the timing and recent nationalisation.  I think they're absolutely at it for political motives.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

It takes far longer to train as a train driver than it does a bus driver. That I can assure you of.

No doubt .

And they are paid at least double and nowhere near the same pension and benefits.

 

[escobri]

This place is full off jealous bampots, these people have a very responsible job and deserve a good wage, think off the tax they pay to keep your benefits going. I feel like some on here would have them earn the same as the burger flippers and they should be grateful for having a job. How many of you have had the unfortunate pleasure of killing people whilst doing your job?

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Your argument was over 54k for a 35 hour week because working weekends makes them "unique". 

 

I called it out as bollocks.

 

They should be on a 7 day rota system.  Perhaps getting extra staff in will drive salaries down because they can't hold commuters to ransom over work to rule?

Believe me the last thing the drivers want is a rota or more drivers thar would see them lose 24 grand a year for an extra 10 hours work a week plus the impact on their income based pension.

They are asking for 10 % that amounts too 8 grand with OT.

90 grand a year .

Then add that to their pension.

All paid for by the people they themselves say on here they don't care about.

Meanwhile the rest of us mugs who might rely on the train are facing fuel costs and inflation.

 

Only a half wit communist could possibly see the economic benefits in that.

Greed.

Nothing more nothing less is what is driving the drivers.

You have to wonder with their backgrounds what's driving their union leaders.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, escobri said:

This place is full off jealous bampots, these people have a very responsible job and deserve a good wage, think off the tax they pay to keep your benefits going. I feel like some on here would have them earn the same as the burger flippers and they should be grateful for having a job. How many of you have had the unfortunate pleasure of killing people whilst doing your job?

Stop talking shite.

They earn a good wage basic and a very good wage with overtime.

Plus a handsome pension that only those on 175 thousand plus could afford to maintain.

Jealous of nothing and never claimed a benefit in my puff.

On 40% tax though.

And not expecting Joe public to finance what essentially is driving I a straight fekin line all day.

[Ked]

9 minutes ago, escobri said:

This place is full off jealous bampots, these people have a very responsible job and deserve a good wage, think off the tax they pay to keep your benefits going. I feel like some on here would have them earn the same as the burger flippers and they should be grateful for having a job. How many of you have had the unfortunate pleasure of killing people whilst doing your job?

As for your last sentence .

There are a great deal of work related deaths .

Most of them being in construction.

But your salary and with overtime is more than double a paramedic,fireman and nurse  and police.

 

 

[escobri]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

Stop talking shite.

They earn a good wage basic and a very good wage with overtime.

Plus a handsome pension that only those on 175 thousand plus could afford to maintain.

Jealous of nothing and never claimed a benefit in my puff.

On 40% tax though.

And not expecting Joe public to finance what essentially is driving I a straight fekin line all day.

Would you give them the rise if they had to steer?

[Ked]

Just now, escobri said:

Would you give them the rise if they had to steer?

😄

[Jeffros Furios]

14 minutes ago, escobri said:

This place is full off jealous bampots, these people have a very responsible job and deserve a good wage, think off the tax they pay to keep your benefits going. I feel like some on here would have them earn the same as the burger flippers and they should be grateful for having a job. How many of you have had the fortunate pleasure of killing people whilst doing your job?

[Ked]

So saying as no one answered my question about driving a train I had a wee google.

It seems the hardest part was actually getting the job and completing the training.

There's on going understanding of the rules and of course the responsibilty of a piece of equipment.

Want to know what most drivers said.

How lucky they were to have got the job and how much they loved it.

The working conditions and pay.

 

We all want happy pilots happy train drivers and I've no problem with well paid jobs.

But this is a hijack just like the threats during the cop26.

The SG must be wishing they hadn't touched scotrail with a bargepole.

As for the leadership of the unions involved.

You won't see them going without even though they are thick af

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

.

 

Now I read early on that in comparison to other companies Scotrail paid less.

All I could find was the Eurostar .

 

.

 

So again I ask what's so difficult about driving a train ?

 

Eurostar, GWR, Avanti West Coast, LNER, South West Trains, Trans Pennine...... All pay drivers more than Scotrail. They're the only ones I've looked at. There aren't that many tocs left.

 

Pushing a lever to make a train go isn't difficult. Knowing and understanding all the rules, where to break when you can't even see what you're breaking for, things like that. It's not even comparable to driving a bus.

[Mikey1874]

A few people affected by the massive disruption in England caused by 1 suicide near Warrington are going to miss their connections in Glasgow and Edinburgh. when they finally get there. 

 

Good night for the taxi drivers. 

[Ked]

1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

Eurostar, GWR, Avanti West Coast, LNER, South West Trains, Trans Pennine...... All pay drivers more than Scotrail. They're the only ones I've looked at. There aren't that many tocs left.

 

Pushing a lever to make a train go isn't difficult. Knowing and understanding all the rules, where to break when you can't even see what you're breaking for, things like that. It's not even comparable to driving a bus.

There was when I compared drivers pay no more a difference than 2% .

Scotrail are after 9%.

I didn't say driving a bus was more difficult.

I asked what was difficult about driving a train.

I looked for myself as you will see in above posts.

But let's examine bus drivers v train drivers.

Pay not even close

Dealing with members of public

Pensions not even close.

Driving under pressure.

Well my understanding is that all going well train driving is fairly easy.

Bus drivers have to deal with ever increasing traffic

Cyclists pedestrians car drivers split shifts weekends nights they get free bus travel right enough.

 

An understanding of line rules braking distance and all of that is why train drivers training is comprehensive.

Guess who pays for that while they get paid.

 

Get back to work ya bunch of greedy chancers and sack your communist leaders.

[il Duce McTarkin]

Mon the train drivers.

[IronJambo]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

There was when I compared drivers pay no more a difference than 2% .

Scotrail are after 9%.

I didn't say driving a bus was more difficult.

I asked what was difficult about driving a train.

I looked for myself as you will see in above posts.

But let's examine bus drivers v train drivers.

Pay not even close

Dealing with members of public

Pensions not even close.

Driving under pressure.

Well my understanding is that all going well train driving is fairly easy.

Bus drivers have to deal with ever increasing traffic

Cyclists pedestrians car drivers split shifts weekends nights they get free bus travel right enough.

 

An understanding of line rules braking distance and all of that is why train drivers training is comprehensive.

Guess who pays for that while they get paid.

 

Get back to work ya bunch of greedy chancers and sack your communist leaders.

No more than 2%?

 

South West Trains pay their drivers £67k.

GWR pay £60,124.

Avanti West Coast pay £67,486

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

Death to the fascists  ! 

[fabienleclerq]

34 minutes ago, Ked said:

There was when I compared drivers pay no more a difference than 2% .

Scotrail are after 9%.

I didn't say driving a bus was more difficult.

I asked what was difficult about driving a train.

I looked for myself as you will see in above posts.

But let's examine bus drivers v train drivers.

Pay not even close

Dealing with members of public

Pensions not even close.

Driving under pressure.

Well my understanding is that all going well train driving is fairly easy.

Bus drivers have to deal with ever increasing traffic

Cyclists pedestrians car drivers split shifts weekends nights they get free bus travel right enough.

 

An understanding of line rules braking distance and all of that is why train drivers training is comprehensive.

Guess who pays for that while they get paid.

 

Get back to work ya bunch of greedy chancers and sack your communist leaders.

 

They are at work you tory *****😂

 

 

[Ked]

14 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

They are at work you tory *****😂

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Death to the fascists  ! 

Come ahead ya commie gits

[Ked]

35 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

No more than 2%?

 

South West Trains pay their drivers £67k.

GWR pay £60,124.

Avanti West Coast pay £67,486

 

 

South West just robbed themselves 11% and 9% over the last 2 years.

Avanti are on a recruitment drive .

And I can't be bothered to look into gwr.

But other than those 3 my original post was about right.

Doesn't change the fact under current workings a Scotrail driver is on almost 80 grand a year.

With all the other benefits the wealth creating private sector can only dream of.

[Ked]

48 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

Mon the train drivers.

Mon the Joe public who cannae get tae work cannae dive aboot firra night oot.

While the train drivers warm their toes lazily whilst dressed in their silk dressing gowns smoking cigars supplied by their commie overlords in Russia.

Cuban ones obviously

[Ked]

12 months training.

Then feet up and ye dinnae even huv tae steer.

And their want 90 grand a year for a 45 hour week.

With an income based pension plus other benefits.

Robbin bar stewards

[Ked]

Poor angry train drivers at meeting over poor pay and conditions

[IronJambo]

@Kedtheir wages are going up every time you post 😂😂

 

They're no getting anything like the industry standard at Scotrail. They need more moola. 

[manaliveits105]

Sturgeon should resign another shambles by her government 

[escobri]

Bet the angry mob on here are still paying their student loans off whilst earning feck all from the art history or creative writing degrees they've got.

[Jeffros Furios]

10 minutes ago, escobri said:

Bet the angry mob on here are still paying their student loans off whilst earning feck all from the art history or creative writing degrees they've got.

[1874robbo]

I reckon keds mrs fecked off with a train driver.

[Mikey1874]

Talks back on

[manaliveits105]

My dad was a train driver - I want to die like him peacefully well off in his sleep 

not screaming like his passengers