FA cup final

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Couldn't disguise their true nature of being utter scum.

[luckydug]

53 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

So what is your take on this? An invention by the anti-Irish? 

 

Like any criticism of Celtic's Green Brigade? Not that our media really address that phenomenon.

 

It is a bit strange because there is quite a lot of doubt about which of the Liverpool clubs were originally the  Catholic and which the Protestant team and which would be more likely to boo the UK royal family. My wife is Catholic and her family were traditionally Evertonians. But these days Celtic and Liverpool seem to have close affinities.

 

Whatever, it doesn't for me belong in a football ground. 

 

Any more than Rangers fans renditions of God Save the Queen yesterday. Was that mentioned in say the Record?

 

 

 

 

Was their singing of the 'sash' mentioned anywhere ? 

They even included best wishes to the Pope at the end 😏

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

FA there is not much doubt about it. LFC founder John Houlding was a member of the Orange Lodge and Tory MP and the first team had a good number of Scottish loyalists in it. Now whether that was by design and some sort of Rangers type of thing I couldn't say. The church that Everton came from although sounding RC was in fact a Methodist Church. Here's a link to a bitters site that may shed some light but in my experience it's pretty mixed through both supports. Oh and as an aside Liverpool don't have an "affinity" with Celtic. 

 

https://www.toffeeweb.com/fans/beingblue/religion.asp

 

 

The article and even more so  the comments on it seem to me to confirm that there is doubt about which club was in the past seen as  Catholic and which as Protestant. 

I am sure like Hearts and Hibs today there is no real religious divide for the vast majority of fans.

[XB52]

The English cup final is a distraction from the fight to be fourth in the English league. Money is all that counts in their football these days 

[luckydug]

9 minutes ago, sassenach said:

To be honest, I felt uncomfortable with Hearts fans around me booing GSTQ.  I'd rather Rangers fans didn't sing it (for the reasons that they do), but when all comes to all it's my National Anthem.  And I have the utmost respect and admiration for Her Majesty The Queen.  

For some of us up here the UJ and GSTQ at football matches are the signs of a moron. 

Just as the waving of Irish Tricolour and Irish rebel songs are the sign of a moron. 

Neither should be anywhere near our football stadiums imo. 

BTW did you never attend Hampden in the old days when the SFA used to insist on using GSTQ as Scotland's NA. 

Booing used to reach a crescendo everyone bood even the Rangers end. 

In the end they were so embarrassed they had to let us use our own anthem. 

 

[XB52]

Liverpool were the protestant team and Everton Catholic. Thankfully, unlike the brain dead morons of the OF and a few on here, they grew out of that shite many years ago 

[XB52]

20 minutes ago, sassenach said:

To be honest, I felt uncomfortable with Hearts fans around me booing GSTQ.  I'd rather Rangers fans didn't sing it (for the reasons that they do), but when all comes to all it's my National Anthem.  And I have the utmost respect and admiration for Her Majesty The Queen.  

GSTQ is the English national anthem and has nothing to do with our club or country 

[John Findlay]

40 minutes ago, XB52 said:

GSTQ is the English national anthem and has nothing to do with our club or country 

Some people need educated.

GSTQ is the national anthem of the UK.

However the English Football and Rugby teams use it before their games.

The English Commonwealth games team use I believe the hymn Jerusalem as their national anthem after winning a Gold medal.

GSTQ was played before the 1976 Scottish Cup final between Hearts and Rangers.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Couldn't disguise their true nature of being utter scum.

[Boris]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

So what is your take on this? An invention by the anti-Irish? 

 

It's not an invention as the events happened.

 

Why they happened is the crux. The Mail, it appears, is spinning it as Irish republicanism (going by what you have posted, I've not read the Mail, nor intend to).

[Boris]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Not true that now, is it.

 

JFC, I booed it as well. I may also have shouted something about it being too late, too.

 

🤣🤣🤣

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

It's not an invention as the events happened.

 

Why they happened is the crux. The Mail, it appears, is spinning it as Irish republicanism (going by what you have posted, I've not read the Mail, nor intend to).

The Mail has a more complicated interpretation of it as I think I indicated. But if you only read things you agree with ...

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, sassenach said:

 

GSTQ is actually the UK National Anthem, but I respect your point of view.

 

I wouldn't boo Flower Of Scotland, and I would call out anyone who was disrespectful enough to do so.  Why doesn't GSTQ deserve the same respect.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/15/scottish-support-for-monarchy-falls-to-45-poll-reveals

 

You actually answered your own question in your previous post. It's not the monarchy per se, rather the use of it by them to project their loyalism.

 

The link above was in the paper today, not relevant to your point, but interesting in context to the conversation.

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Mail has a more complicated interpretation of it as I think I indicated. But if you only read things you agree with ...

I just made an opinion based on what you posted. Possibly misread you or possibly what you posted wasn't what you meant.

 

As for your parting shot...meh, whatever.👍

 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

FA there is not much doubt about it. LFC founder John Houlding was a member of the Orange Lodge and Tory MP and the first team had a good number of Scottish loyalists in it. Now whether that was by design and some sort of Rangers type of thing I couldn't say. The church that Everton came from although sounding RC was in fact a Methodist Church. Here's a link to a bitters site that may shed some light but in my experience it's pretty mixed through both supports. Oh and as an aside Liverpool don't have an "affinity" with Celtic. 

 

https://www.toffeeweb.com/fans/beingblue/religion.asp

 

 

No affinity between the Liverpool  and Celtic fans? Celtic have adopted You'll Never Walk Alone and Liverpool's Fields of  Anfield borrows from the Fields of Athenry. More Celtic affinity with Liverpool than vive versa but there is I think some affinity

Edited May 15, 2022 by Francis Albert

[jam doughnut]

https://www.si.com/soccer/liverpool/opinions/why-did-the-liverpool-fans-boo-the-national-anthem-an-insight-to-the-question

[Boris]

Just now, sassenach said:

I wouldn't boo anyone's anthem, as I have a bit of respect.  So no, I haven't answered my own question.

Sorry, from what you posted it was Hearts fans booing rangers fans singing gstq?

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, sassenach said:

It was indeed Hearts fans booing my National Anthem.  Why is that OK?  Just because it was Rangers fans singing it?  They were still booing it.

 

I wouldn't boo Flower Of Scotland, regardless of who was singing it.

It's the context.

 

If you want to be associated with knuckle dragging loyalism then that's your choice, but others who may very well respect that anthem may feel that those are denigrating it by using it for their own narrow ends. Hence the boos.

[brellier]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

GSTQ is the English national anthem and has nothing to do with our club or country 

GSTQ is the British national anthem , which we all are

[Weakened Offender]

27 minutes ago, sassenach said:

 so it would have just sounded like noise to me.

 

After reading the entire post I've cut the above from, you have my sympathy. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No affinity between the Liverpool  and Celtic fans? Celtic have adopted You'll Never Walk Alone and Liverpool's Fields of  Anfield borrows from the Fields of Athenry. More Celtic affinity with Liverpool than vive versa but there is I think some affinity

 

It's only the tune FA. Liverpool fans also have a song called Scouser Tommy that uses the same tune as the Sash. Does that mean there's an affinity to Rangers?  As for YNWA surely you remember Hearts fans singing it in the 70's (albeit just the chorus) as did many other clubs fans. 

[Francis Albert]

31 minutes ago, sassenach said:

 

I only know about the existence of a song known as The Sash because of this forum.  But I don't actually know the tune, or any of the words.  I'm not familiar with the actual song at all, as I don't come from that background.  I gather that the Rangers fans sang it yesterday, but I wouldn't have known. It's difficult to make out the words of unfamiliar football songs, so it would have just sounded like noise to me.

 

I suppose I could do some research on the song, so that I could be all offended whenever Rangers fans sang it.  But why would I bother doing that? 

It did not matter what background you came from you would have known these songs if you watched Hearts in the 60s 70s and beyond. Like it or not they are part of our heritage. Not something to be proud of but on the other hand not something to get all woke and ashamed of. 

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's only the tune FA. Liverpool fans also have a song called Scouser Tommy that uses the same tune as the Sash. Does that mean there's an affinity to Rangers?  As for YNWA surely you remember Hearts fans singing it in the 70's (albeit just the chorus) as did many other clubs fans. 

Of course I remember that. As I said it is more Celtic affinity to Liverpool than vice versa. I haven't heard Scouser Tommy.

[Morgan]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

GSTQ is the English national anthem and has nothing to do with our club or country 

Wrong.

[Morgan]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

Liverpool were the protestant team and Everton Catholic. Thankfully, unlike the brain dead morons of the OF and a few on here, they grew out of that shite many years ago 

There’s another poster on here who like to point out the ‘Protestant’ clubs too.

 

I can’t name him as I’m not sure he’s been on this thread.

 

Search under ‘I’.

 

 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Morgan said:

There’s another poster on here who like to point out the ‘Protestant’ clubs too.

 

I can’t name him as I’m not sure he’s been on this thread.

 

Search under ‘I’.

 

 

You can make him if you @ him

[Morgan]

Just now, Smithee said:

You can make him if you @ him

🥰👍

 

@Irufushi

[1971fozzy]

3 hours ago, luckydug said:

Was their singing of the 'sash' mentioned anywhere ? 

They even included best wishes to the Pope at the end 😏

Id ban them. Their singing these songs is utterly unacceptable and surely gives clubs the power to ban them.  Send a statement out and ban them and the other arse cheek who are just as bad. 

[Francis Albert]

14 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Id ban them. Their singing these songs is utterly unacceptable and surely gives clubs the power to ban them.  Send a statement out and ban them and the other arse cheek who are just as bad. 

We would have banned most of our support back in the day. The Sash and Derry's Walls were once Hearts standards. Thankfully no longer but at my age you can't get too pious about them. Sorry.

[1971fozzy]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

We would have banned most of our support back in the day. The Sash and Derry's Walls were once Hearts standards. Thankfully no longer but at my age you can't get too pious about them. Sorry.

yep I went in the 80’s and your right (although not sung that often apart from games v Celtic ). But this is 2022

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, jonesy said:

It's largely boo'd because it's part of all the pish we have to put up with between the OF.

 

Some may also boo because they're ardent republicans and/or Scottish nationalists. Nothing wrong with either of those things, so was quite glad to hear such booing yesterday. 

Amazing that I didn’t see one Union Jack in the Hearts fans sections yesterday…..

[Thomaso]

39 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

You must have missed John Souttar arriving at Tynie, declaring that he was still ready to give his all for his current employers.

🙄

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, 1971fozzy said:

yep I went in the 80’s and your right (although not sung that often apart from games v Celtic ). But this is 2022

In the 70s they were sung at every game in the old shed below the tv gantry.

Of course I know this is 2022 and it is a tiny minority of mainly away fans who perpetuate thiis nonsense. But in the words of another old Hearts song "If you know the history ..."

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, brellier said:

GSTQ is the British national anthem , which we all are

Except that GSTQ (or GSTK when it reverts to its original lyrics in the near future) has a dig at the Scots in one of the later verses.  How does that make it a British anthem?

[tcjambo]

2 minutes ago, RobNox said:

Except that GSTQ (or GSTK when it reverts to its original lyrics in the near future) has a dig at the Scots in one of the later verses.  How does that make it a British anthem?

Pretty sure you're thinking of Rule Britannia

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Amazing that I didn’t see one Union Jack in the Hearts fans sections yesterday…..

A speccy kid had one in Section N, was singing along with all the Huns song abs they eventually sang “speccy, speccy give us the sash”. Some guy had a UJ on a T-shirt behind me, and I saw someone with a red Stamp with Liz the Last on a blue background. 
The booing of GTSQ was a thing to behold. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Pretty sure you're thinking of Rule Britannia

 

[RobNox]

14 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Pretty sure you're thinking of Rule Britannia

No, GSTQ or GSTK depending on the gender of the monarch....

 

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

[tcjambo]

Well Wade also had the backing if a lot of Scots at the time. After all the modern version was written in 1745 When was the last time you heard this verse sung?

[Independence]

4 hours ago, tcjambo said:

Well Wade also had the backing if a lot of Scots at the time. After all the modern version was written in 1745 When was the last time you heard this verse sung?

That’s not the point though is it? The original song was anti pro Scottish people. Wade had some Scots support through money. I just hope Hearts fans don’t fall to Sevco’s culture on Saturday. They are a very sad club who still peddle sectarianism and they are rarely criticised by the media. I only feel sorry for the general public in Seville and their police. Several Police officers in Manchester had to retire on Ill health after the injuries they picked up when Sevco fans destroyed  the city centre! 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Independence said:

That’s not the point though is it? The original song was anti pro Scottish people. Wade had some Scots support through money. I just hope Hearts fans don’t fall to Sevco’s culture on Saturday. They are a very sad club who still peddle sectarianism and they are rarely criticised by the media. I only feel sorry for the general public in Seville and their police. Several Police officers in Manchester had to retire on Ill health after the injuries they picked up when Sevco fans destroyed  the city centre! 

Wade did not just have support through money. He had the support of the Protestant Scots who did not want a Catholic King on the thrown!

The 1745 rebellion was not simply Scots against the English - it was basically a religious conflict.

 

 

[tcjambo]

15 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Wade did not just have support through money. He had the support of the Protestant Scots who did not want a Catholic King on the thrown!

The 1745 rebellion was not simply Scots against the English - it was basically a religious conflict.

 

 

Correct. That verse in the song is a historical relic and should be left as such and omitted, as it has no relevance nowadays. 

[Independence]

41 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Wade did not just have support through money. He had the support of the Protestant Scots who did not want a Catholic King on the thrown!

The 1745 rebellion was not simply Scots against the English - it was basically a religious conflict.

 

 

Happy to be corrected. You are right of course with BPC being a catholic. However, money was still used to sway men one way or another. It was all a bit chaotic. 

[Irufushi]

11 hours ago, Morgan said:

🥰👍

 

@Irufushi

🇬🇧😍

[briever]

17 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

 

It was the Mail of course. But Liverpool fans certainly have some history of this. As a republican I have no problem with it.  But as with Celtic in Scotland it  is a phenomenon studiously ignored by most of the media. Including the BBC yesterday.

 

The Mail's take on it and of those it quoted is that it is a reflection of Liverpool's anti-Establishment culture and its traditional "twin capital of Ireland" demography.

 

(If you are truly anti-Establishment maybe Tranmere Rovers might offer a local alternative football-wise?)

 

 

 

One of the rabid fascist Tory female MPs was shrieking yesterday that they need to find the perpetrators and prosecute them!!

[briever]

15 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

So what is your take on this? An invention by the anti-Irish? 

 

Like any criticism of Celtic's Green Brigade? Not that our media really address that phenomenon.

 

It is a bit strange because there is quite a lot of doubt about which of the Liverpool clubs were originally the  Catholic and which the Protestant team and which would be more likely to boo the UK royal family. My wife is Catholic and her family were traditionally Evertonians. But these days Celtic and Liverpool seem to have close affinities.

 

Whatever, it doesn't for me belong in a football ground. 

 

Any more than Rangers fans renditions of God Save the Queen yesterday. Was that mentioned in say the Record?

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a club thing - it's a scouse thing.  The SE media hate Liverpool, the fact many of them have Irish ancestors is the cherry on top.

[SuperstarSteve]

39 minutes ago, briever said:

 

It's not a club thing - it's a scouse thing.  The SE media hate Liverpool, the fact many of them have Irish ancestors is the cherry on top.

Definitely a scouse thing. Liverpool are one of the most anti-monarchist cities in the UK.