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Do we overvalue managers' failings and undervalue their successes?


jamboinglasgow

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jamboinglasgow

This is more a general point about British football fans and pundits rather than specific to Hearts.

 

Was listening to a discussion about the Champions League games this week and they talked about Carlo Ancelotti and Unai Emery and whether they are underestimated by fans and pundits. Ancelotti has now won a league in each of the five biggest leagues in Europe, has won the Champions League three times, is now going to be in the final twice but is never really talked about in the same way as the best managers at the moment such as Guardiola and Klopp. Unai Emery has won the Europa League four times with two different clubs, got Villareal to the Semi final of the Champions League (beating Bayern and Juventus on the way but seems to be viewed as a poor manager after his time at Arsenal. Does his underwhelming time at Arsenal and PSG mean that we view them as a underwhelming manager instead of seeing the achievements and seeing that as the big indicator of talent and great ability?

 

Same with Robbie Neilson, while he has won over many of his detractors this season, there has always been an undercurrent from some of him being not a great manager for Hearts. Detractors often point to the draw then loss against Hibs in the cup for example, or hold that the football is too defensive, the poor performances against the team from Malta or that there is a poor record in Glasgow against the Old Firm and so on. Yet he has never done worse than 3rd place in the Premiership. Has a great league record and winning, has now got to two Scottish cup finals (admittedly one was arriving after we got to the semi final.) So does what those perceive as negative outweigh the achievements?

 

There seems to be an attitude towards managers in British football that if they ever fail at a club or get sacked that its a mark against their name and a sign that the manager will never do well anywhere. Is it an attiude that ignores the nuances of why a manager failed which could be not the managers fault i.e. poor recruitment by the club that is not controlled by the club, manager was hired who is known for playing a certain style but that style is not suited for the club, owner does not get on with the manager etc.

 

Are fans and pundits too focused on what the manager has done wrong they discount what the manager has done right (even when it is much bigger than the failings?) 

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Bull's-eye

It's a narrative driven by the media to begin with, manager sackings are unfortunately headline news. This has been picked up by the nuggets as a way to vent their spleen. It certainly seems like we have more than our fair share of these types supporting Hearts. All waiting in the wings for any excuse to put the boot in.

 

I think the success Chelsea have had over years with the hire em fire em mentality has fueled supporter disgruntlement, which in its own way is quite ironic because very rarely was it the actual Chelsea supporters screaming for the managers head. 

 

All clubs need stability and intelligent people in the boardroom not making rash and stupid decisions, ignoring the gobshites is difficult but it's a part of football these days unfortunately. 

 

Sackings are big news, it's as simple as that. 

Edited by Bull's-eye
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Agree with the post above. 
 

The build up/tear down narrative arc works for the media. 
 

Lot of people’s opinions are shaped by the last thing they read or see on TV. 
 

British coverage also extremely focused on what happens here. Doubt Emri is underrated in Spain. 

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karipidis
5 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

It's a narrative driven by the media to begin with, manager sackings are unfortunately headline news. This has been picked up by the nuggets as a way to vent their spleen. It certainly seems like we have more than our fair share of these types supporting Hearts. All waiting in the wings for any excuse to put the boot in.

 

I think the success Chelsea have had over years with the hire em fire em mentality has fueled supporter disgruntlement, which in its own way is quite ironic because very rarely was it the actual Chelsea supporters screaming for the managers head. 

 

All clubs need stability and intelligent people in the boardroom not making rash and stupid decisions, ignoring the gobshites is difficult but it's a part of football these days unfortunately. 

 

Sackings are big news, it's as simple as that. 

The Robbie Neilson detractors certainly does not stem from the media, quite the opposite as there is some bewilderment from the media that Neilson has any detractors. The media are spot on with that. 

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4marsbars

Agree with this.

 

You'll still read posts on here from people believing that Robbie should have been sacked after the Brora game, even although everything that has happened since proves that such a kneejerk reaction would have been completely wrong.

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Bull's-eye
1 hour ago, karipidis said:

The Robbie Neilson detractors certainly does not stem from the media, quite the opposite as there is some bewilderment from the media that Neilson has any detractors. The media are spot on with that. 

 

I didn't mean the post to be specifically about Hearts and Robbie. I genuinely believe the hate towards him is only social media based anyway. I've only seen stuff written on here and Facebook. Apart from the usual moans and groans at games I've never heard any discussion in boozers before or after games and certainly not during them. 

Even the infamous plane disgrace was conducted by a handful of Internet weirdos. The disgust and embarrassment shown at the stadium that day tells you all you need to know. 

 

My earlier post was more in general, the vultures circle on any manager these days who loses about 3 games on the bounce. When you look deeper into the clubs that sack managers left right and centre, take Hibs for example 😆, the problem is most definitely not the managers fault, never was. It's the culture of the club, its the way it's run. As I said earlier, it only seems to be Chelsea that have been successful with this Blueprint, you'll spot every other club whos owners or board think they are playing Football manager at the bottom of their respective league. 

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Tommy Brown
1 hour ago, karipidis said:

The Robbie Neilson detractors certainly does not stem from the media, quite the opposite as there is some bewilderment from the media that Neilson has any detractors. The media are spot on with that. 

Another argument with Robbie.

Recruitment has been successful, our player budget working wisely.

We are now best of the rest by a stretch, mainly due to H1b5 and Dons falling apart.

 

But, now Robbie must continue to build on the foundations with a Euro windfall and make us more competitive against the ugly sisters. Are we going to progress in Europe?

 

Best of the rest is fine, but is it enough?

 

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i wish jj was my dad
44 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Another argument with Robbie.

Recruitment has been successful, our player budget working wisely.

We are now best of the rest by a stretch, mainly due to H1b5 and Dons falling apart.

 

But, now Robbie must continue to build on the foundations with a Euro windfall and make us more competitive against the ugly sisters. Are we going to progress in Europe?

 

Best of the rest is fine, but is it enough?

 

Think we need to reflect on what he has achieved so far and quite frankly that is 9.5/10. 

I am sure it is not your intention but there is still a bit of an attitude around willing him to fail.

He will have targets for next season no doubt but I won't be whipping him if we finish 3rd again but don't have a great Euro run. 

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The problem with managers being held to greater levels of expectation due to their own success is that if you sack them for not achieving those higher levels you have just as much chance of dropping back to where you were before they were brought in 

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, Sooks said:

The problem with managers being held to greater levels of expectation due to their own success is that if you sack them for not achieving those higher levels you have just as much chance of dropping back to where you were before they were brought in 

Who mentioned Aberdeen? 😄

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10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Who mentioned Aberdeen? 😄


Dante around about Canto 4 …………… but no you are right and I definitely had them in mind when I posted : - D

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henryheart

It is not just a football thing. How many people at work think they can do a better job than their boss and in doing so choose to highlight the things that they do not like and ignore the good points or the challenges that he or she may face in doing the job? 

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Is this a reflection of journalism more broadly and the rise of social media. 

 

Articles are often clickbait and full of adverts, simply throwing out headlines to get users to view the page or sound bites to get a reaction. Negative news is more likely to get a reaction and controversial headlines will be spoke  about.

 

Focusing more on Scottish football the media care about 2 teams. Hearts vs Dundee United for example have been great games this season but are never on TV. Why focus on the positives within the game and hand out some credit to managers or show games that are entertaining to promote the game? 

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Tasavallan

Appointing managers based on their footballing skills as a player rather than by their footballing knowledge will always likely be a failure.

 

I am always suspicious of those players that made £££ wanting to manage.  Frank Lampard the latest example.  Jurgen Klopp is the opposite.

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