2022 Census

[John Findlay]

15 minutes ago, Boab said:

It is !

So is a grand for not filling it out.

Are they going to enforce it, is the question ?

Not a chance.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

19 minutes ago, Boab said:

It is !

So is a grand for not filling it out.

Are they going to enforce it, is the question ?

 

I'd doubt it, as it'll cost as much if not more in legal & admin fees, because some people will ignore the fine or appeal it and it goes to court.

[pablo]

24 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

86% return rate when the target rate was 94% returns, compare that to England's 97% return rate.

It's a shambles, serious questions will need to be asked about the decision to hold it back a year and doing it predominately online, there has to be questions asked, after all £150m of taxpayers money is a lot of money.

 

You wouldn't get a straight answer obviously.  The only plausible reason for holding back and decoupling from England, Wales and NI is because they could take the opportunity to reinforce Scotland somehow being different.

 

Look at the results. Everything they touch turns to shite without exception now.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Are the other UK nations doing their own, or is it done as a oner across Eng, Wal and NI?

 

The whole of the UK has done their census on the exact same day every 10 years since 1841, until now, when Scotland held ours back by a year from the rest of the UK, which held theirs last year.

[chuck berrys hairline]

Would've made sense to do it during the lockdowns but the SNP have to be different! Always shoot themselves in the foot everytime.

[Mikey1874]

Doubt the Scottish Government want to send £1000 fines to independence supporters. 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, chuck berrys hairline said:

Would've made sense to do it during the lockdowns but the SNP have to be different! Always shoot themselves in the foot everytime.

 

Internal Government issues there must have been. 

 

They held an election during lockdown which is equally as resource intensive. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

You wouldn't get a straight answer obviously.  The only plausible reason for holding back and decoupling from England, Wales and NI is because they could take the opportunity to reinforce Scotland somehow being different.

 

Look at the results. Everything they touch turns to shite without exception now.

 

 

The reason they said was because of the pandemic & lockdowns for holding it back a year.

The rest of the UK doesn't seem to have had a problem with holding theirs during a pandemic and or lockdown.

[Boab]

21 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Not a chance.

 

15 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I'd doubt it, as it'll cost as much if not more in legal & admin fees, because some people will ignore the fine or appeal it and it goes to court.

So, a shambles as predicted !

 

[pablo]

12 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The reason they said was because of the pandemic & lockdowns for holding it back a year.

The rest of the UK doesn't seem to have had a problem with holding theirs during a pandemic and or lockdown.

 

Doesn't really stack up if England, Wales and NI held the census when Covid was more of an issue than it is now, and have had a much higher completion rate than Scotland. 

 

Nothing more than a political stunt. Not exactly a one off either.

[dtgj]

The census does seem to be a shambles. Both in terms of getting responses and some of the questions were really badly worded. For example, I I remember correctly the question on being able to speak Gaelic had two options - fluent or not able to speak any. I understand some Gaelic but I'm not fluent or a native speaker. Therefore I was forced to say I don't know any, which isn't really accurate. 

 

On the delay - Scotland isn't the only country to delay a census from 2021 to 2022. Ireland also delayed. I can't find any stats about response rate for Ireland to know for sure but the delay doesn't seem to have affected responses there (at least there are no news articles about a low response rate I can see).

 

I suspect the reason for the low response rate is the online first approach used in Scotland. As far as I know Ireland went paper first with an option to fill in online. 

 

Either way, we do need to find out what went wrong with this process. 

[milky_26]

Question for those of you in Scotland and completed vthe census? Was there anything in it to ask if you had previously completed it in England/Wales? I ask as I know someone who moved back to Glasgow from Manchester in October/November last year and was wondering if he would have had to fill it out twice. I do plan on asking him thus weekend when on the sauce with him but I might forget 

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Question for those of you in Scotland and completed the census? Was there anything in it to ask if you had previously completed it in England/Wales? I ask as I know someone who moved back to Glasgow from Manchester in October/November last year and was wondering if he would have had to fill it out twice. I do plan on asking him thus weekend when on the sauce with him but I might forget 

 

No

 

If you have been asked to complete the Scottish census you will have a letter with the online reference registration. 

[John Findlay]

15 minutes ago, dtgj said:

The census does seem to be a shambles. Both in terms of getting responses and some of the questions were really badly worded. For example, I I remember correctly the question on being able to speak Gaelic had two options - fluent or not able to speak any. I understand some Gaelic but I'm not fluent or a native speaker. Therefore I was forced to say I don't know any, which isn't really accurate. 

 

On the delay - Scotland isn't the only country to delay a census from 2021 to 2022. Ireland also delayed. I can't find any stats about response rate for Ireland to know for sure but the delay doesn't seem to have affected responses there (at least there are no news articles about a low response rate I can see).

 

I suspect the reason for the low response rate is the online first approach used in Scotland. As far as I know Ireland went paper first with an option to fill in online. 

 

Either way, we do need to find out what went wrong with this process. 

Online is a deflection. I got my letter all about the consensus, well before the original deadline date, and there was an option for hardcopy, I used this option and filled in and sent my consensus form away three weeks before the original deadline date. There was no hassle for me whatsoever.

The reasons for people not wanting to fill in online or hardcopy are simple.

1. They just don't want to do it.

A. This is so they can try and stay off the grid, in order not to pay the likes of council tax.

B. Some people just like sticking two fingers upto authority, and don't think everyday laws apply to them.

C. Some people are just downright ****wits.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

17 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Question for those of you in Scotland and completed vthe census? Was there anything in it to ask if you had previously completed it in England/Wales? I ask as I know someone who moved back to Glasgow from Manchester in October/November last year and was wondering if he would have had to fill it out twice. I do plan on asking him thus weekend when on the sauce with him but I might forget 

 

No exactly, although there were one possibly two questions which asked if you were staying at a different address a year ago, that would pick up people who have moved from other parts of the UK.

[dtgj]

8 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Online is a deflection. I got my letter all about the consensus, well before the original deadline date, and there was an option for hardcopy, I used this option and filled in and sent my consensus form away three weeks before the original deadline date. There was no hassle for me whatsoever.

The reasons for people not wanting to fill in online or hardcopy are simple.

1. They just don't want to do it.

A. This is so they can try and stay off the grid, in order not to pay the likes of council tax.

B. Some people just like sticking two fingers upto authority, and don't think everyday laws apply to them.

C. Some people are just downright ****wits.

 

I wouldn't underestimate the laziness of some. Having to request a paper form adds that extra step that makes it seem like an extra bit of faff. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

25 minutes ago, dtgj said:

The census does seem to be a shambles. Both in terms of getting responses and some of the questions were really badly worded. For example, I I remember correctly the question on being able to speak Gaelic had two options - fluent or not able to speak any. I understand some Gaelic but I'm not fluent or a native speaker. Therefore I was forced to say I don't know any, which isn't really accurate. 

 

On the delay - Scotland isn't the only country to delay a census from 2021 to 2022. Ireland also delayed. I can't find any stats about response rate for Ireland to know for sure but the delay doesn't seem to have affected responses there (at least there are no news articles about a low response rate I can see).

 

I suspect the reason for the low response rate is the online first approach used in Scotland. As far as I know Ireland went paper first with an option to fill in online. 

 

Either way, we do need to find out what went wrong with this process. 

 

The Gaelic question usually just askes if you can speak Gaelic, not if your fluent in it which will cut down the numbers of people answering yes, same with the question about speaking Scots, they'll maybe get a few hundred academics who will answer yes to that question.

Some real stupid questions in it.

 

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Online is a deflection. I got my letter all about the consensus, well before the original deadline date, and there was an option for hardcopy, I used this option and filled in and sent my consensus form away three weeks before the original deadline date. There was no hassle for me whatsoever.

The reasons for people not wanting to fill in online or hardcopy are simple.

1. They just don't want to do it.

A. This is so they can try and stay off the grid, in order not to pay the likes of council tax.

B. Some people just like sticking two fingers upto authority, and don't think everyday laws apply to them.

C. Some people are just downright ****wits.

 

So if you say people in Scotland are lazy and don't want to do it why are all previous census returns at over 98%? When the paper form took longer to complete and send back. 

 

You haven't thought that through. 

[Taffin]

What difference does it make if it's digital or paper? You're either going to do it, or you're not.

 

Personally a census seems really dated as a concept. Maybe others feel that way and just didn't bother. Or as some are saying (and I've not seen it), the questions were daft.

[John Findlay]

33 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So if you say people in Scotland are lazy and don't want to do it why are all previous census returns at over 98%? When the paper form took longer to complete and send back. 

 

You haven't thought that through. 

Yes I have. I don't make excuses for people. There has been no reason whatsoever for people not to fill in this consensus form. They have had more than enough time.

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What difference does it make if it's digital or paper? You're either going to do it, or you're not.

 

Personally a census seems really dated as a concept. Maybe others feel that way and just didn't bother. Or as some are saying (and I've not seen it), the questions were daft.

The furore is about why the return was 97% in England. 

The idea that it was the more deprived areas that didn't return has been questioned also as some high return rates in England were in deprived areas.

It was an OG to do it at a different time as the rest of the UK. That's the long and short of it.

 

[RobboM]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What difference does it make if it's digital or paper? You're either going to do it, or you're not.

 

Personally a census seems really dated as a concept. Maybe others feel that way and just didn't bother. Or as some are saying (and I've not seen it), the questions were daft.

Without a census a country can't answer some very basic questions which guide how and where services are targeted.

eg How many people live in Scotland? where do they live? what age are they? Education, health, transport all rely on these numbers. It's like a stock check, there's no other single reliable source for that information. I started work in the General Register Office for Scotland way back in the mid 80s and the tail end of processing the 1981 Census was going on and planning for 1991 was gearing up. The talk always seemed to be that the next Census would be the last of its kind but nothing matched the quality and scope of the data provided by the Census.

I left a good number of years ago but I can't believe a **** up of this scale would ever have happened on the watch of those involved with earlier Censuses.

[dtgj]

17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What difference does it make if it's digital or paper? You're either going to do it, or you're not.

 

Personally a census seems really dated as a concept. Maybe others feel that way and just didn't bother. Or as some are saying (and I've not seen it), the questions were daft.

It's not about digital Vs paper but about the way those options are framed. 

 

If you go digital first, which means people have to request a paper copy, then there's an additional step needed for anyone that needs the paper copy. Any extra step put in the way of someone doing something is likely to make a few people not do it. 

 

However, if we went paper first - sending out a paper copy to everyone with a link to doing it online then everyone has all the information they need to fill it in at the first time of asking. There's no additional step someone wanting to fill it in needs to take. 

 

I'm not saying it completely explains the lower response rate compared to previous censuses but I think that extra barrier to completing the form might explain some of the difference. 

 

It certainly explains a lot more than holding the census in a different year. There's absolutely no reason to suspect delaying from 2021 to 2022 would have any affect on the response rates. 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Without a census a country can't answer some very basic questions which guide how and where services are targeted.

eg How many people live in Scotland? where do they live? what age are they? Education, health, transport all rely on these numbers. It's like a stock check, there's no other single reliable source for that information. I started work in the General Register Office for Scotland way back in the mid 80s and the tail end of processing the 1981 Census was going on and planning for 1991 was gearing up. The talk always seemed to be that the next Census would be the last of its kind but nothing matched the quality and scope of the data provided by the Census.

I left a good number of years ago but I can't believe a **** up of this scale would ever have happened on the watch of those involved with earlier Censuses.

 

It still feels really dated. Given people can write whatever the want on it I wouldn't be surprised if Google hasn't got a more accurate data pool for those questions. In a digital world where our data is mined extensively and algorithms are very accurate, is a questionnaire in whether we speak Gaelic really useful?

 

I get that the alternative is very 1984 and I'm not in favour of it, just musing why people maybe think it seems stupid.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, dtgj said:

It's not about digital Vs paper but about the way those options are framed. 

 

If you go digital first, which means people have to request a paper copy, then there's an additional step needed for anyone that needs the paper copy. Any extra step put in the way of someone doing something is likely to make a few people not do it. 

 

Which is sort of what I'm getting at, if someone can't be bothered to request a paper copy, I'd doubt they'd then bother to fill that paper copy in. 

 

 

1 minute ago, dtgj said:

 

However, if we went paper first - sending out a paper copy to everyone with a link to doing it online then everyone has all the information they need to fill it in at the first time of asking. There's no additional step someone wanting to fill it in needs to take. 

 

That's an obscene waste of money and resources though. It's 2022, if someone won't fill it out online, fine them imo. I'd understand if this was a decade ago.

 

 

1 minute ago, dtgj said:

 

I'm not saying it completely explains the lower response rate compared to previous censuses but I think that extra barrier to completing the form might explain some of the difference. 

 

It certainly explains a lot more than holding the census in a different year. There's absolutely no reason to suspect delaying from 2021 to 2022 would have any affect on the response rates. 

 

Possibly people had nothing better to do last year so filled it out. It would certainly be significantly lower on my priorities this year. I simply don't buy that the paper vs digital thing is relevant at all imo.

[GBJambo]

Tried to register for this online . They gave me a code - it didn’t work! 
 

Contacted them again and they gave me another code.  Still didn’t work!

 

Getting threatening letters through the post saying they will fine me a grand 😂

 

Contacted them again and told them to bolt and to desist with the threatening letters. Haven’t heard a peep from them 

 

Shambles bit not surprised 

Edited May 31, 2022 by GBJambo

[Unknown user]

I haven't done mine, probably won't. I suppose it's the disconnect between the nation and the citizen, it genuinely couldn't give a **** about me so why play along?

They already know who I am, where I live and what my circumstances are.

 

Not intended as whiny as it sounds BTW, I just don't see the point!

Edited May 31, 2022 by Smithee

[FWJ]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Online is a deflection. I got my letter all about the consensus, well before the original deadline date, and there was an option for hardcopy, I used this option and filled in and sent my consensus form away three weeks before the original deadline date. There was no hassle for me whatsoever.

The reasons for people not wanting to fill in online or hardcopy are simple.

1. They just don't want to do it.

A. This is so they can try and stay off the grid, in order not to pay the likes of council tax.

B. Some people just like sticking two fingers upto authority, and don't think everyday laws apply to them.

C. Some people are just downright ****wits.

The older I get the more I realise that this is the case for a lot of s**t that happens.

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, FWJ said:

The older I get the more I realise that this is the case for a lot of s**t that happens.

Yup.

[GBJambo]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Yes I have. I don't make excuses for people. There has been no reason whatsoever for people not to fill in this consensus form. They have had more than enough time.

Not when they put obstacles in place like incorrect codes to enter online 

 

And I’m compute literate so don’t use that as an excuse 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

Code worked fine didn’t take long didn’t even ask for my vaccination status and got the opportunity to wave the union flag 🇬🇧 

 

pretty “selfish” not to fill it out as it’s needed for future planning etc …… some would say ….. not me though

[frankblack]

20 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

Code worked fine didn’t take long didn’t even ask for my vaccination status and got the opportunity to wave the union flag 🇬🇧 

 

pretty “selfish” not to fill it out as it’s needed for future planning etc …… some would say ….. not me though

 

Its a complete waste of time.

 

All the data they need is readily available  on other government databases.

 

It was little more than a survey to gauge how many might favour independence.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

It was little more than a survey to gauge how many might favour independence.

 

It's been done UK wide since 1801

[frankblack]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It's been done UK wide since 1801

 

Not with loaded questions like this one.

[Boab]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Not with loaded questions like this one.

Yip.

The Indy issue cannot be discounted in this fiasco.

It could easily have been done last year with the UK.

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Not with loaded questions like this one.

 

It was a lot more than a survey to gauge how many might favour independence.

[Boab]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It was a lot more than a survey to gauge how many might favour independence.

Of course but it has cost a lot more. Nearly £10M just to extend the deadline by a month. 

Shambles is a pretty close description.

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Boab said:

Of course but it has cost a lot more. Nearly £10M just to extend the deadline by a month. 

Shambles is a pretty close description.

 

I'm only answering the claim that it was little more than a survey to gauge how many might favour independence.

[Boab]

23 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm only answering the claim that it was little more than a survey to gauge how many might favour independence.

👍

[Mikey1874]

Final figures are in.

 

 

Government is going to "learn lessons" for next time. 

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Final figures are in.

 

 

Government is going to "learn lessons" for next time. 

So this government still think they will be in power in 10 years time🤔

[frankblack]

So, when are all the fines going out?  That will surely endear themselves to the electorate.  🤔

[Jamstomorrow]

Why not send out the fines and use the revenue to save the lives of alcoholics and drug abusers?  

[Lord Montpelier]

42 minutes ago, frankblack said:

So, when are all the fines going out?  That will surely endear themselves to the electorate.  🤔

81% return in Glasgow. So £1000 fines for one fifth of them. 

 

Look forward to seeing that happen

[Greedy Jambo]

They don't enforce it, i've not filled one out in years. 

Not a fan of giving folk all my details. 

 

[Tommy Brown]

The amount of questions seem to be increasing, either that or memory is getting more ****ed.

 

In 2001, I got a job delivering them door to door. Was decent bit of extra cash.

Anyway, back then, I had to chip every door and ask, name of main householder and how many were in the household.

Most complied, and would give all names and ages.

Back then, a completed form, only needed all names and dobs. The rest was a bonus.

The more you ask on a form, the more you get pissed off.

 

[AlimOzturk]

16 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

They don't enforce it, i've not filled one out in years. 

Not a fan of giving folk all my details. 

 

 

Every time You fill In a form or apply for something your giving someone your details. Anytime you log into Facebook, twitter or go onto a forum you share your IP

address. Anytime to click “agree to cookies”

your consenting to people sharing your data. Don’t be fooled there is no such thing as privacy. There never has been and never will be. 

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

They don't enforce it, i've not filled one out in years. 

Not a fan of giving folk all my details. 

 

You wouldn't, the last one was 11 years ago!

[Greedy Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

You wouldn't, the last one was 11 years ago!

 

Really? I've had a few other things through the door that i've ignored then haha. 

[Jeffros Furios]

43 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Given the dummies voted for Sturgeon and her shitshow of a party, I would be surprised.

 

The field jocks will still be eagerly anticipating the 2034 Indy ref.

The field jocks dont have access to the Internet and  are quite happy chucking horse shite at scarecrows.