Council elections 2022

[John Findlay]

If there is not an independent candidate on the ballot paper in my ward, the I shall spoil my ballot paper by writing in capital letters, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Childish? Probably, but I consider it my democratic right to do so.

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

If there is not an independent candidate on the ballot paper in my ward, the I shall spoil my ballot paper by writing in capital letters, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Childish? Probably, but I consider it my democratic right to do so.

 

Not so much childish as utterly pointless. Nobody will give a damn what you write on your paper.

 

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

If there is not an independent candidate on the ballot paper in my ward, the I shall spoil my ballot paper by writing in capital letters, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Childish? Probably, but I consider it my democratic right to do so.

 

It's absolutely your right to make a futile gesture that a human will glance at, put in the Spoiled pile, and never think about again. But it seems pretty pointless, I'd just stay at home and count your willies if I was you.

 

[redjambo]

19 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

If there is not an independent candidate on the ballot paper in my ward, the I shall spoil my ballot paper by writing in capital letters, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Childish? Probably, but I consider it my democratic right to do so.

 

Hang on. Are you implying here that an independent candidate would get your support, no matter what their views were?

[JudyJudyJudy]

and remember folks you don't have to number every candidate. You can just write 1 or 2 for preferred candidates and leave the rest blank. 

[John Findlay]

27 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Hang on. Are you implying here that an independent candidate would get your support, no matter what their views were?

They would yes.

[John Findlay]

31 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's absolutely your right to make a futile gesture that a human will glance at, put in the Spoiled pile, and never think about again. But it seems pretty pointless, I'd just stay at home and count your willies if I was you.

 

Luckily you're not me, and even luckier I'm not you.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

They would yes.

 

With all due respect, that's ridiculous. Independent  candidates can have a wide variety of views and stances, from far left to far right and everything in between. Being independent just means that they're not representing an established party.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

With all due respect, that's ridiculous. Independent  candidates can have a wide variety of views and stances, from far left to far right and everything in between. Being independent just means that they're not representing an established party.

So. My vote I can do with it as I please.

It's,called democracy.

[Ray Gin]

'Kin 'ell

 

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

So. My vote I can do with it as I please.

It's,called democracy.

 

I'm certainly not arguing with that. All I am saying is that if you automatically vote for an independent candidate, no matter their views, you're the sort of non-thinking voter that lets democracy down. Try and use a wee bit of intelligence and common sense. Voting is not only a right but also a responsibility, one to be taken seriously.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm certainly not arguing with that. All I am saying is that if you automatically vote for an independent candidate, no matter their views, you're the sort of non-thinking voter that lets democracy down. Try and use a wee bit of intelligence and common sense. Voting is not only a right but also a responsibility, one to be taken seriously.

Am I. What if I'm a voter who believes every mainstream party has let me down. I firmly believe they are all charlatans, liars, thieves and a few other things to boot. I would say I was thinking rather than non- thinking, but because I'm not going to vote SNP, Labour, LibDem, Conservative, Greens or even Alba, you think I'm a non-thinker. I say to the contrary.

What you think doesn't matter to me, in the same way what I think with regard to these local elections shouldn't matter to you.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Am I. What if I'm a voter who believes every mainstream party has let me down. I firmly believe they are all charlatans, liars, thieves and a few other things to boot. I would say I was thinking rather than non- thinking, but because I'm not going to vote SNP, Labour, LibDem, Conservative, Greens or even Alba, you think I'm a non-thinker. I say to the contrary.

What you think doesn't matter to me, in the same way what I think with regard to these local elections shouldn't matter to you.

 

Your belief that established political parties are not to be voted for due to having let folk down is not the issue. If that's what you believe, fine. It would be nice to see more independent candidates for elections, particularly local ones.

 

However, extrapolating that to say that you would vote for an independent candidate, no matter what platform they were standing for, is crazy. Folk died to get us the vote, and then large numbers of people died in wars to allow us to continue to live in a democracy and have the right to vote. And your response to all that sacrifice is to blindly vote for a candidate because he or she identifies as "independent"?

 

When I said that voting is a responsibility to be taken seriously, it is because your vote, or non-vote, has the capacity to not only impact on you but on the welfare and lives of everyone around you, your colleagues, your neighbours, your fellow citizens.

 

Vote how you want, of course, but your non-thinking approach does no justice to your fellow citizens nor all the people who have suffered to allow you to exercise that vote.

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Your belief that established political parties are not to be voted for due to having let folk down is not the issue. If that's what you believe, fine. It would be nice to see more independent candidates for elections, particularly local ones.

 

However, extrapolating that to say that you would vote for an independent candidate, no matter what platform they were standing for, is crazy. Folk died to get us the vote, and then large numbers of people died in wars to allow us to continue to live in a democracy and have the right to vote. And your response to all that sacrifice is to blindly vote for a candidate because he or she identifies as "independent"?

 

When I said that voting is a responsibility to be taken seriously, it is because your vote, or non-vote, has the capacity to not only impact on you but on the welfare and lives of everyone around you, your colleagues, your neighbours, your fellow citizens.

 

Vote how you want, of course, but your non-thinking approach does no justice to your fellow citizens nor all the people who have suffered to allow you to exercise that vote.

Is that really the best you can comeback with?

So I take it you have the same go at the women in your constituency and country, who can't be bothered to vote?

I wonder how many 16-30 years old women have ever heard of the suffragettes and what they they did so that they can vote.

I am voting, I'm just note voting in the way you think I should. Guess what all those that made sacrifices in war and conflicts, did so, so in order that I can vote in the manner I intend too. The word you are looking for is democracy.

The phrase you are looking for is I may not like the way you vote/intend to vote, but I defend your right to do so.

Let me remind you. In this country it is one person one vote, the phone is carried out in a polling booth. It is done this way so that the person voting can do so in private/secret, so that no-one else can see who they are voting for.

If you don't like this way of voting, campaign to change it.

Who I vote for is none of your business, and who you vote for is none of mine

I came close many times between September 1979, and April 1990 to making the ultimate sacrifice like millions before me.

Can you claim the same?

If not then don't try and lecture me on those that have.

Edited April 29, 2022 by John Findlay

[Dennis Reynolds]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Who I vote for is none of your business

 

Yet here you are telling anyone who will listen, who you are or aren't voting for.

[New Town Loafer]

I don’t like Hibs.

[John Findlay]

7 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Yet here you are telling anyone who will listen, who you are or aren't voting for.

Who am I voting for?

[Dennis Reynolds]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Who am I voting for?

 

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

If there is not an independent candidate on the ballot paper in my ward, the I shall spoil my ballot paper by writing in capital letters, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Childish? Probably, but I consider it my democratic right to do so.

 

Ahem

 

4 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

I don’t like Hibs.

 

You can have my vote! 

[Nookie Bear]

I’ll vote for anyone who will tell the SfP tossers to GtF. 

[redjambo]

18 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Is that really the best you can comeback with?

So I take it you have the same go at the women in your constituency and country, who can't be bothered to vote?

I wonder how many 16-30 years old women have ever heard of the suffragettes and what they they did so that they can vote.

I am voting, I'm just note voting in the way you think I should. Guess what all those that made sacrifices in war and conflicts, did so, so in order that I can vote in the manner I intend too. The word you are looking for is democracy.

The phrase you are looking for is I may not like the way you vote/intend to vote, but I defend your right to do so.

Let me remind you. In this country it is one person one vote, the phone is carried out in a polling booth. It is done this way so that the person voting can do so in private/secret, so that no-one else can see who they are voting for.

If you don't like this way of voting, campaign to change it.

Who I vote for is none of your business, and who you vote for is none of mine

I came close many times between September 1979, and April 1990 to making the ultimate sacrifice like millions before me.

Can you claim the same?

If not then don't try and lecture me on those that have.

 

You are all over the place, John. And that is putting it mildly (and sadly).

 

What it all boils down to is that you are willing to exercise your vote by voting for someone purely because of the label of "independent" they have given themselves, no matter their political beliefs, and you can't understand why this is "non-thinking" or even dangerous in a democracy.

 

And then you fling the "I was in the services" argument out as if somehow this were a Reverse Uno card for the very valid argument that all the sacrifices that folk have made in the past to allow us to vote in our democratic system should *at the very least* encourage us to respect those sacrifices and exercise our right to vote responsibly. The fact that you yourself have served has the square root of bugger all to do with that.

 

As has already been alluded to by other astute posters, JKB is a message board founded on the frank exchange of views. That's what we do. Yet you seem to think that you can express your opinion and that others do not have the right to comment on it, no matter how ridiculous that opinion. Extraordinary.

 

Anyway good luck to you and your "blind" votes for independents. I hope that one day the inkling of how stupid it is to vote for someone purely because they class themselves as independent may eke through to your consciousness, but given your comments above, I highly doubt it.

[jamboy1982]

On 28/04/2022 at 12:37, manaliveits105 said:

My Tory local guy has done well over past few years as has my second vote the Tory lady followed by a third vote for the Lib Dem guy who is also pretty pro active - none of the others deserve votes 

Nobody cares about your fake voting intentions 

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

even luckier I'm not you.

Don't know about that, I've seen your photo!

[John Findlay]

59 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You are all over the place, John. And that is putting it mildly (and sadly).

 

What it all boils down to is that you are willing to exercise your vote by voting for someone purely because of the label of "independent" they have given themselves, no matter their political beliefs, and you can't understand why this is "non-thinking" or even dangerous in a democracy.

 

And then you fling the "I was in the services" argument out as if somehow this were a Reverse Uno card for the very valid argument that all the sacrifices that folk have made in the past to allow us to vote in our democratic system should *at the very least* encourage us to respect those sacrifices and exercise our right to vote responsibly. The fact that you yourself have served has the square root of bugger all to do with that.

 

As has already been alluded to by other astute posters, JKB is a message board founded on the frank exchange of views. That's what we do. Yet you seem to think that you can express your opinion and that others do not have the right to comment on it, no matter how ridiculous that opinion. Extraordinary.

 

Anyway good luck to you and your "blind" votes for independents. I hope that one day the inkling of how stupid it is to vote for someone purely because they class themselves as independent may eke through to your consciousness, but given your comments above, I highly doubt it.

I'm only allover the place in your eyes, because I don't intend to vote in the way you believe I should.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

So. My vote I can do with it as I please.

It's,called democracy.

 

Absolutely John. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

I'm only allover the place in your eyes, because I don't intend to vote in the way you believe I should.

 

 

You still don't get it.

 

Ok. Let's say that there is an election, and in your ward there are several party candidates and a sole independent candidate. The independent candidate's platform includes the abolition of the UK's armed forces. Would you still vote for that candidate?

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You still don't get it.

 

Ok. Let's say that there is an election, and in your ward there are several party candidates and a sole independent candidate. The independent candidate's platform includes the abolition of the UK's armed forces. Would you still vote for that candidate?

Possibly. The Conservatives and Labour governments have been abolishing them bit by bit for years.

Least the independent would be honest about doing it.

[redjambo]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Possibly. The Conservatives and Labour governments have been abolishing them bit by bit for years.

Least the independent would be honest about doing it.

 

Ok, the independent candidate's platform also includes mandatory euthanasia at 60, a maximum annual income of £10,000, and all males living in your ward who served in the UK forces between September 1979 and April 1990 to be forced to wear a frogman outfit when outdoors. Would you still vote for the candidate? At least they would be being honest about it, after all, John.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Ok, the independent candidate's platform also includes mandatory euthanasia at 60, a maximum annual income of £10,000, and all males living in your ward who served in the UK forces between September 1979 and April 1990 to be forced to wear a frogman outfit when outdoors. Would you still vote for the candidate? At least they would be being honest about it, after all, John.

Sorry who is being the silly one here?😄

[redjambo]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Sorry who is being the silly one here?😄

 

Having followed UK politics all your life, you must have realised by now that there are candidates with very wacky opinions and manifestos out there.

 

So, the answer to your question is obviously you. You've already said that you would vote for the independent candidate no matter their views and so, logically, you would vote for the independent candidate I described above. Don't worry, they will probably have suitable frogman outfits in your chosen colour on Amazon if you have a look.

 

Do you know, one of the measures that I place on folk is that if they say or do something stupid, and realise that it is so, generally the decent folk realise that they were wrong and will admit it, rather than doubling down (the latter behaviour being very common in e.g. politicians who are caught out). So, your ardent doubling down on your original assertion that you would vote for an independent candidate, no matter that candidate's views or platform, is actually behaviour akin to the very politicians who I imagine you despise. Ironic that, eh?

 

In reality, we both know that if an independent candidate had views that were at odds with your own to a degree you deemed significant, then you wouldn't vote for that candidate, despite your assertion that you would. You just can't admit it though. Ever thought of going into politics?

[John Findlay]

30 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Having followed UK politics all your life, you must have realised by now that there are candidates with very wacky opinions and manifestos out there.

 

So, the answer to your question is obviously you. You've already said that you would vote for the independent candidate no matter their views and so, logically, you would vote for the independent candidate I described above. Don't worry, they will probably have suitable frogman outfits in your chosen colour on Amazon if you have a look.

 

Do you know, one of the measures that I place on folk is that if they say or do something stupid, and realise that it is so, generally the decent folk realise that they were wrong and will admit it, rather than doubling down (the latter behaviour being very common in e.g. politicians who are caught out). So, your ardent doubling down on your original assertion that you would vote for an independent candidate, no matter that candidate's views or platform, is actually behaviour akin to the very politicians who I imagine you despise. Ironic that, eh?

 

In reality, we both know that if an independent candidate had views that were at odds with your own to a degree you deemed significant, then you wouldn't vote for that candidate, despite your assertion that you would. You just can't admit it though. Ever thought of going into politics?

So I'm not allowed a protest vote?

[redjambo]

Just now, John Findlay said:

So I'm not allowed a protest vote?

 

Now that's a new angle that you've just introduced into the discussion, having never mentioned it at any point before (in our discussion anyway).

 

So are you saying that your automatic vote for an independent, no matter their policies, would be your way of protesting against existing political parties? Do you think that after the votes were counted folk would view an independent candidate as effectively having been a "none of the above" candidate? Genuine question. If so, it's an unusual approach. I have to say that I personally would like a "None of the above" option introduced to ballots - I most probably wouldn't use it myself but I think folk should be given the choice to unambiguously put that view across, rather than using methods such as yours, spoiling their papers, or not voting, all of which may or may not mean expressing a view of "none of the above".

 

Interestingly, during the last US Presidential election, at least one state that I remember offered a "None of the above" choice. Ah, here you go, Nevada.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_These_Candidates

[jam doughnut]

5 hours ago, John Findlay said:

If there is not an independent candidate on the ballot paper in my ward, the I shall spoil my ballot paper by writing in capital letters, NONE OF THE ABOVE. Childish? Probably, but I consider it my democratic right to do so.

 

5 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Not so much childish as utterly pointless. Nobody will give a damn what you write on your paper.

 

Actually, the staff who count the votes will give a damn. Spoilt papers help break up the monotony. Though as well as adding on NOTA, always helpful to be a bit more inventive with a nice wee doodle or two.

[OTT]

Not a single candidate I want to vote for. SNP/Labour council haven't improved the city and no chance I'm voting tory or diet tory and I'd rather shite in my hands and clap than vote green.

 

You look at things like this places for people (or spaces or whatever the ****) the bike bollard pish. Literally nobody voted for that. Wasn't in a manifesto and the cheeky ***** squirrel it in the back door via some dodgy covid legislation. The low emmission zones, again, I'm not keen to punish people who can't afford a brand new car. Thats absolutely ridiculous. You want to tackle climate change? How about we start making Shell properly pay taxes and tax China and other major polluters instead of going after the working class family that can only afford an 07 Astra or whatever. 

 

It comes off as some arrogant middleclass self righteousness. 

 

Councils job should be to make peoples lives easier, not harder. Arseholes, hope their next shites a hedgehog. ****ing pricks. 

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, jamboy1982 said:

Nobody cares about your fake voting intentions 

The three I’ve already voted for by post will be delighted 

I don’t care what anyone else thinks how I vote 

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

With all due respect, that's ridiculous. Independent  candidates can have a wide variety of views and stances, from far left to far right and everything in between. Being independent just means that they're not representing an established party.

 

In fairness, most independent candidates are either rampant Tories, rampant nutters who are too militantly right-wing to be allowed stay in the Conservative party, with a smaller crop of mad millies who think Momentum is too right-wing for them.  Any independent still on the ballot paper once those categories are excluded would usually be a single-issue wingnut.

[Ulysses]

10 hours ago, New Town Loafer said:

I don’t like Hibs.

 

Where are they standing? 

[Ulysses]

7 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Now that's a new angle that you've just introduced into the discussion, having never mentioned it at any point before (in our discussion anyway).

 

So are you saying that your automatic vote for an independent, no matter their policies, would be your way of protesting against existing political parties? Do you think that after the votes were counted folk would view an independent candidate as effectively having been a "none of the above" candidate? Genuine question. If so, it's an unusual approach. I have to say that I personally would like a "None of the above" option introduced to ballots - I most probably wouldn't use it myself but I think folk should be given the choice to unambiguously put that view across, rather than using methods such as yours, spoiling their papers, or not voting, all of which may or may not mean expressing a view of "none of the above".

 

Interestingly, during the last US Presidential election, at least one state that I remember offered a "None of the above" choice. Ah, here you go, Nevada.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_These_Candidates

 

RON is the term used in some votes, including student union elections.  You can vote for any candidate, and also for RON (re-open nominations).  If RON wins, the nomination and vote process is recommenced - a bit like a run-off election, but more of a free-for-all.

[ri Alban]

So who did the OP used to be? Get your votes in.

[jack D and coke]

Always important scotland doesn’t forget who Labour are too. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

Can't vote over here, wouldn't vote back home.

 

Hard being working class and not a complete ****ing cretin.

[the general]

Sad the Councillor Ricky Henderson is standing down this time

Great Hearts man and a good person as well

[frankblack]

5 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Always important scotland doesn’t forget who Labour are too. 

 

Is this remotely relevant to the council elections?

 

The key for me in Edinburgh is voting for anyone bar Labour or the SNP to get rid of this nightmare council.

 

To start with its useful to identify your ward from your polling card then find out who is currently in place:

https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0

 

You can hopefully work out which party to vote for - even if its tory.  Remember its about local issues (spaces for people etc) - point scoring about national issues belongs on another thread.

 

The results of the local elections are completely irrelevant for national issues.  I just hope enough people in Edinburgh see that.

[SecN]

Getting shot of Airbnb style activity in the city is something that was a big decider for my household. 

[Shanks said no]

6 hours ago, the general said:

Sad the Councillor Ricky Henderson is standing down this time

Great Hearts man and a good person as well

Seconded

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

The results of the local elections are completely irrelevant for national issues.  I just hope enough people in Edinburgh see that.

That's simply not true, mid term council elections have always been a measure of government. They're also the reason Boris is still in charge, the Tories didn't want to risk a new leader getting blamed for a wipeout.

 

Plus, councils don't have money because the country isn't exactly thriving, those *******s are driving it into the dirt. If you think voting a Tory councillor in is the answer to a national Tory cluster****, I don't know what to say.

 

That sack of custard in charge could be earning more, experiencing less stress, having a free run at the fillies and bongo, he could be on holiday every month. But he isn't, he's sticking out what's a pretty tough gig just now. I'd put money on that the only reason he's still there is that he's incentivised, he's been promised a knighthood or something if he stays and takes the flak for these elections.

 

He'll be gone by July if people show their displeasure. But if people continue to vote ****ing Tory after all of this, we deserve everything we get.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Smithee

[Jambo_jim2001]

On 30/04/2022 at 01:52, Ulysses said:

 

In fairness, most independent candidates are either rampant Tories, rampant nutters who are too militantly right-wing to be allowed stay in the Conservative party, with a smaller crop of mad millies who think Momentum is too right-wing for them.  Any independent still on the ballot paper once those categories are excluded would usually be a single-issue wingnut.

My local independent was on the fiddle " allegedly" along with a Tory. The now independent got removed from the Labour party. The Tory well ,still is a Tory. Kinda sums it up for me.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Is this remotely relevant to the council elections?

 

The key for me in Edinburgh is voting for anyone bar Labour or the SNP to get rid of this nightmare council.

 

To start with its useful to identify your ward from your polling card then find out who is currently in place:

https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0

 

You can hopefully work out which party to vote for - even if its tory.  Remember its about local issues (spaces for people etc) - point scoring about national issues belongs on another thread.

 

The results of the local elections are completely irrelevant for national issues.  I just hope enough people in Edinburgh see that.

I think so bud yeah. It’s easy to forget exactly what they are and how little they can be trusted.
I didn’t say vote for X or Y instead. 

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

That's simply not true, mid term council elections have always been a measure of government. They're also the reason Boris is still in charge, the Tories didn't want to risk a new leader getting blamed for a wipeout.

 

I don't accept your point.  I think he is gone once that Sue Gray report is published, and Sunak is damaged goods also so has no chance of being PM.  I don't know when this is due, though.

 

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

Plus, councils don't have money because the country isn't exactly thriving, those *******s are driving it into the dirt. If you think voting a Tory councillor in is the answer to a national Tory cluster****, I don't know what to say.

 

Voting even Tory for local issues is fine - they will run the council better than the current clowns in City Chambers who ignore results of public consultations when they don't fit their agenda.  These clowns are as dodgy as any mentioned in this thread.

 

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

That sack of custard in charge could be earning more, experiencing less stress, having a free run at the fillies and bongo, he could be on holiday every month. But he isn't, he's sticking out what's a pretty tough gig just now. I'd put money on that the only reason he's still there is that he's incentivised, he's been promised a knighthood or something if he stays and takes the flak for these elections.

 

He'll be gone by July if people show their displeasure. But if people continue to vote ****ing Tory after all of this, we deserve everything we get.

 

I think the Boris thing is a sideshow - he is a dead man walking.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Is this remotely relevant to the council elections?

 

The key for me in Edinburgh is voting for anyone bar Labour or the SNP to get rid of this nightmare council.

 

To start with its useful to identify your ward from your polling card then find out who is currently in place:

https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0

 

You can hopefully work out which party to vote for - even if its tory.  Remember its about local issues (spaces for people etc) - point scoring about national issues belongs on another thread.

 

The results of the local elections are completely irrelevant for national issues.  I just hope enough people in Edinburgh see that.

Good posting. 

4 hours ago, SecN said:

Getting shot of Airbnb style activity in the city is something that was a big decider for my household. 

Yes these are a blight on the city and the anti social behaviours from them are concerning too. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

This is a good explanation of the system up here. 

 

The Local STV Voting System Explained – Ballot Box Scotland