Europa league/conference 22/23 - Zurich v Hearts

[Wee Mikey]

35 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

I suppose the question is, if we want to close the gap, how would Rangers getting CL money help us do that?

 

I'd say by bagging more points v teams other than the gruesome twosome plus, in terms of finance, stretching clearly ahead of H1b5 & Aberdeen.

 

Meanwhile, regardless of how many Euro £££s the cheeks secure, they'll blow the lot cutting each others throats as per usual. Some of their expensive signings have been truly awful.

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

Maybe if they accept big brown envelopes  

[kila]

55 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm not on Twitter. What's the gist of it?

We’re going to make some serious cash. It won’t mean we’re much closer to the OF but we’ll begin to dwarf the rest.

 

I wasn’t too keen on the idea of the Conference league at first but it’s showing to be a real financial boost for many clubs. 

[August Landmesser]

1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I suppose the question is, if we want to close the gap, how would Rangers getting CL money help us do that?

 

 

First priority is to widen the gap to the others behind us. Gruesome twosome both in CL helps us do that, as we get 100% of EL cash, which helps us in the quest to get the groups again next season.

 

We're a few years away from narrowing the gap to the weegies in any meaningful way

[tian447]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm not on Twitter. What's the gist of it?

 

The gist of it is "more European games = more tickets to sell for matches, more revenue from fans buying tickets, pies, drinks and merchandise at games, more appearance and prize money, more TV money, and Hearts are minted to the tune of £7 million assuming we manage to win and draw some of the group games"

 

Summed up more or less in this tweet:
 

 

[Pans Jambo]

17 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

The gist of it is "more European games = more tickets to sell for matches, more revenue from fans buying tickets, pies, drinks and merchandise at games, more appearance and prize money, more TV money, and Hearts are minted to the tune of £7 million assuming we manage to win and draw some of the group games"

 

Summed up more or less in this tweet:
 

 

[JimmyCant]

33 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

The gist of it is "more European games = more tickets to sell for matches, more revenue from fans buying tickets, pies, drinks and merchandise at games, more appearance and prize money, more TV money, and Hearts are minted to the tune of £7 million assuming we manage to win and draw some of the group games"

 

Summed up more or less in this tweet:
 

 

£45 per match seems high to me. Need to be careful with ticket pricing for teams that aren’t maybe an attraction in themselves 

[bigdav]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

£45 per match seems high to me. Need to be careful with ticket pricing for teams that aren’t maybe an attraction in themselves 

Yes but he's including everything in that,food,merchandise,programmes.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm not on Twitter. What's the gist of it?

It’s 17 tweets, basically we can make just shy of £8m if we do well. 

[JimmyCant]

5 minutes ago, bigdav said:

Yes but he's including everything in that,food,merchandise,programmes.

Yep, but it’s still too high IMO. Depends how many attending have extra spend I suppose. I rarely do

[August Landmesser]

11 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Yep, but it’s still too high IMO. Depends how many attending have extra spend I suppose. I rarely do

i reckon it's a reasonable average of match income; that £45 is estimated per head takings from a game, which is total takings divided by an attendance of 20000 (or 19900ish or whatever) - that includes ticket price (which I would guess to be Category A/around £30 for non-concessions), but also pies, club shop, hospitality takings, programmes etc.

 

Personally I never spend £15 every home game on top of my ST, but I'm sure some people will

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

i reckon it's a reasonable average of match income; that £45 is estimated per head takings from a game, which is total takings divided by an attendance of 20000 (or 19900ish or whatever) - that includes ticket price (which I would guess to be Category A/around £30 for non-concessions), but also pies, club shop, hospitality takings, programmes etc.

 

Personally I never spend £15 every home game on top of my ST, but I'm sure some people will

There’s no way of telling what the extra spend per attendee is but even if it’s as low as £3 average that’s still £60k in a full stadium.

[August Landmesser]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

There’s no way of telling what the extra spend per attendee is but even if it’s as low as £3 average that’s still £60k in a full stadium.

I agree, although to be pedantic, there's no way of any of us on JKB telling what the extra spend is, but I'm sure the bean counters at the club are right on top of it!

[Jamboross]

3 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

First priority is to widen the gap to the others behind us. Gruesome twosome both in CL helps us do that, as we get 100% of EL cash, which helps us in the quest to get the groups again next season.

 

We're a few years away from narrowing the gap to the weegies in any meaningful way

 

Rangers dropping to the EL really doesn't affect our cash as much as people seem to be suggesting.

 

TV money isn't likely to be all that much anyway (I can't find figures but Scotland's % share of the deal will be tiny) so Rangers taking 40% of it is probably only going to make us lose out on a few hundred thousand. Money that would be nice to have but still a fraction of the other revenue we'll make. 

 

I'd almost rather they dropped down as us losing £400k or whatever is preferable to them gaining £20m+ and probably benefits the coefficient more as they'd just get pumped most weeks in the CL anyway. 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

First priority is to widen the gap to the others behind us. Gruesome twosome both in CL helps us do that, as we get 100% of EL cash, which helps us in the quest to get the groups again next season.

 

We're a few years away from narrowing the gap to the weegies in any meaningful way

It would be better for us to drop to conference league and sevco drop to europa. We got all the money for uecl and sevco miss out on CL money. That's assuming Utd. don't qualify

[August Landmesser]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

It would be better for us to drop to conference league and sevco drop to europa. We got all the money for uecl and sevco miss out on CL money. That's assuming Utd. don't qualify

I wouldn't necessarily say it would be better (as that means that we lost a winnable play-off) but it's certainly not a disaster if we end up in ECL - more chance of winning a few games, and yes, we get more cash.

 

Deffo agree about not sharing the TV cash with sevco! 

[XB52]

3 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

I wouldn't necessarily say it would be better (as that means that we lost a winnable play-off) but it's certainly not a disaster if we end up in ECL - more chance of winning a few games, and yes, we get more cash.

 

Deffo agree about not sharing the TV cash with sevco! 

Agree not the best footballing wise, meant better on a purely financial basis 

[August Landmesser]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Agree not the best footballing wise, meant better on a purely financial basis 

👍

[Jamboross]

7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

It would be better for us to drop to conference league and sevco drop to europa. We got all the money for uecl and sevco miss out on CL money. That's assuming Utd. don't qualify

 

Nope. The Europa TV money isn't huge but the Conference TV money is absolutely tiny. 60% of the Europa money is still considerably more than 100% of the Conference. 

 

We'd likely have to win the majority of our games in the Conference groups to cancel out the drop in TV revenue.

[Cameron_hogg]

I am currently looking into booking a 50 seater coach picking us up from Basel airport and driving us to st gallen on the 17th and also then returning us to the airport of the 19th Before I booked it I just want to know if would interest anyone, looking to be around 65pp 

Drop me a message on 07481848942 if interested

[A_A wehatethehibs]

23 hours ago, Cade said:

"Old firm getting £30million each is great for Hearts because we get a few thousand more"

 baws tae that

 

But what if they done so well that 3rd place ends up getting a Champions League qualifying spot?
 

It isn’t as far off as you’d think.

All it would take would be for both of them to get into the groups consistently, and then get to the knockouts once or twice over a 4-5 year period. Some would say it’s fanciful but it happened 10-15 years ago and these days there’s a lot more qualifying spots dished out. Ok it’d be the early rounds. But still. A crack at getting in the Champions League…

 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Jamboross said:

 

Nope. The Europa TV money isn't huge but the Conference TV money is absolutely tiny. 60% of the Europa money is still considerably more than 100% of the Conference. 

 

We'd likely have to win the majority of our games in the Conference groups to cancel out the drop in TV revenue.

Wow, just had a look at the TV money; quite a difference

[Cruyff]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

But what if they done so well that 3rd place ends up getting a Champions League qualifying spot?
 

It isn’t as far off as you’d think.

All it would take would be for both of them to get into the groups consistently, and then get to the knockouts once or twice over a 4-5 year period. Some would say it’s fanciful but it happened 10-15 years ago and these days there’s a lot more qualifying spots dished out. Ok it’d be the early rounds. But still. A crack at getting in the Champions League…

 

Or even automatic group stage qualification for the Europa League. 

[August Landmesser]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Or even automatic group stage qualification for the Europa League. 

Portugal are the country next in line above Scotland in the rankings, their top two are straight into the CL groups, and 3rd goes into the CL qualifier at the same stage that Rangers have this year (which effectively guarantees group stage EL).

 

So, overtaking Portugal would seem to be the goal - they're nearly 12 co-efficient points ahead of Scotland just now though, so it'll take a bit of time!

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

i reckon it's a reasonable average of match income; that £45 is estimated per head takings from a game, which is total takings divided by an attendance of 20000 (or 19900ish or whatever) - that includes ticket price (which I would guess to be Category A/around £30 for non-concessions), but also pies, club shop, hospitality takings, programmes etc.

 

Personally I never spend £15 every home game on top of my ST, but I'm sure some people will

I’ve never thought about it but two programmes, and probably £8-10 at the kiosk for drinks usually without even thinking about is nearly £20. If 5k do that it’s £100k. 

[JAYEL]

Watching Miko play for Zalgiris against Bodo

 

6-1 down

 

Could still do a job for us 😜

[Elljay]

9 hours ago, Jamboross said:

 

Rangers dropping to the EL really doesn't affect our cash as much as people seem to be suggesting.

 

TV money isn't likely to be all that much anyway (I can't find figures but Scotland's % share of the deal will be tiny) so Rangers taking 40% of it is probably only going to make us lose out on a few hundred thousand. Money that would be nice to have but still a fraction of the other revenue we'll make. 

 

I'd almost rather they dropped down as us losing £400k or whatever is preferable to them gaining £20m+ and probably benefits the coefficient more as they'd just get pumped most weeks in the CL anyway. 

In 2020/21 Rangers and Celtic shared an EL pool of 3.3 million euros

 

 

[Jamboross]

43 minutes ago, Elljay said:

In 2020/21 Rangers and Celtic shared an EL pool of 3.3 million euros

 

 

 

That's considerably more than I expected and if this year is anything similar makes getting past Zurich all the more lucrative regardless of where Rangers end up. Where did you find that figure? I spent ages weeks ago trying to find out what each country got as their pool share and couldn't find anything!

[Der Kaiser]

Can we offer the FOH Aug monthly contribution as a bonus payment split evenly between players for successfully reaching the Europa League?

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

1 hour ago, Jamboross said:

 

That's considerably more than I expected and if this year is anything similar makes getting past Zurich all the more lucrative regardless of where Rangers end up. Where did you find that figure? I spent ages weeks ago trying to find out what each country got as their pool share and couldn't find anything!

TV Money amount is based on a team’s coefficient. Both arse cheeks will have higher coefficients than us so will have qualified for more

[Cory McNamara]

Compensation

 

Conference League:

 

Group Stage: 3 mil. $

Match won: 500 thous. $

Match drawn: 166 thous. $

First in Group Stage: 650 thous. $

Second in GS: 325 thous. $

Knockout round: 300 thous. $

Round of 16: 600 thous. $

 

UEFA Cup:

 

Group Stage: 3 mil. 630 thous. $ 

Match won: 630 thous. $

Match drawn: 210 thous. $

First in GS: 1 mil. 100 thous. $

Second in GS: 550 thous. $

Knockout round: 500 thous. $

Round of 16: 1 mil. 100 thous. $

 

Some figures look similar.

 

 

[Cory McNamara]

AZ Alkmaar vs. Dundee United

 

Wednesday, August 10th, 2022, AFAS Stadion, Alkmaar, NED

 

The Kick-Off is at Twenty Hundred

 

222nd Day of the Year

 

 

[Jamboross]

1 hour ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

TV Money amount is based on a team’s coefficient. Both arse cheeks will have higher coefficients than us so will have qualified for more

 

It's not. There is a co-efficient payment that is based on how a teams co-efficient compares to others in the tournament, 32 teams in the competition, 32 rungs on the ladder. Last year each rung further up you were was worth an extra €132k, so the top ranked team (likely Man Utd this year) got €4.2m, the lowest (if we get in, probably us) just the €132k.  That is entirely separate from the TV Pool money which is split on a proportional market size basis by the nations that have representatives in the group stage,  then secondly by the teams from that nation based on how they qualified with cup winners taking a bigger share than those qualifying through league placing. 

I posted it on another thread but this UEFA document from last season explains it all pretty well https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0269-125fde34ba54-30a4c9aeea13-1000/20210520_circular_2021_35_en.pdf

[Ricardo Quaresma]

So, some people would still want the mhanks to get all of the CL money to their stinking mhank selves, driving them way further ahead of all of us?
 

I repeat: arse cheeks to split the money then pumped oot asap

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Right oot; 4th in group

[Forrest]

The whole European money thing is completely f-d up.  What's the justification for team number 1 to get £4m more than team number 32 when they're both at the same stage of the tournament?  The global distribution of wealth in football needs complete overhaul.

 

Re the Sectarian Firm, is there not an argument that them doing relatively well is what got us here, guaranteed group stage football.

 

 

[Daveandal]

1 minute ago, Forrest said:

The whole European money thing is completely f-d up.  What's the justification for team number 1 to get £4m more than team number 32 when they're both at the same stage of the tournament?  The global distribution of wealth in football needs complete overhaul.

 

Re the Sectarian Firm, is there not an argument that them doing relatively well is what got us here, guaranteed group stage football.

 

 

 

This was mentioned. I think on the B Team thread.

 

At the moment, Scotland has probably gone as high as it can in the coefficients if it just had 2 teams collecting the points. If Celtic AND Rangers want guaranteed CL football they need a third Scottish team picking up points to close the gap on Portugal/Netherlands.

 

In turn that means the 3rd team has an outside chance of CL football but probably guaranteed EL every year.

 

We've seen this year Celtic and Rangers basically back our attempt to have a B Team.... I think we might be moving into a situation where we, still at a distance, could be useful to them.

 

A bit like Sporting compared to Porto and Benfica, if you get what I mean.

[Forrest]

Makes you a bit sick to be helping them, but us doing consistently well in Europe leads to that, then we just have to swallow that bitter pill.  Or get ourselves into the position where we can snatch a CL place, but that feels a long way off.

[JimmyCant]

7 hours ago, Cory McNamara said:

AZ Alkmaar vs. Dundee United

 

Wednesday, August 10th, 2022, AFAS Stadion, Alkmaar, NED

 

The Kick-Off is at Twenty Hundred

 

222nd Day of the Year

 

 

That game is tomorrow unless it’s been changed recently

[The Real Maroonblood]

22 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

That game is tomorrow unless it’s been changed recently

It is and it’s on BBC Scotland

 

 

[DalryJambo]

2 hours ago, Forrest said:

Makes you a bit sick to be helping them, but us doing consistently well in Europe leads to that, then we just have to swallow that bitter pill.  Or get ourselves into the position where we can snatch a CL place, but that feels a long way off.

 

I think the thing is the whole of Scottish football needs to work together for the greater good. Until that happens we'll never move forward.  Basically we're f****d!!

[JFK-1]

2 hours ago, Daveandal said:

 

This was mentioned. I think on the B Team thread.

 

At the moment, Scotland has probably gone as high as it can in the coefficients if it just had 2 teams collecting the points. If Celtic AND Rangers want guaranteed CL football they need a third Scottish team picking up points to close the gap on Portugal/Netherlands.

 

It's even more important this season than previous seasons that others contribute something just to maintain the current ranking. That ranking which is guaranteeing Hearts Euro football.

 

Since there are now 5 teams entered compared to 4 in previous years even if the OF did well it would be watered down if no one else contributed. It's already watered down by Motherwell who will deduct a full 20% from the total points gained. While not even contributing a goal far less a point.

 

Our most likely consistent source of co-efficient points is the OF. It's crucial just to maintain the current ranking and that's going to need help. Dundee United contributed. Well done.

 

More so than ever before it's time to put away bias when it comes to Europe. We need every fraction of a point we can get. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I see Qarabag, who just edged out Zurich, had another massive result in the  Champs League play offs last night. Zurich is going to be a real test for us. Especially if no more signings by Friday

[loveofthegame]

Booked up and hedged bets with a fiver on Linfield to qualify at 66/1 to cover the cost of the flights. Cannot wait now.

[mbhmfc]

6 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

Booked up and hedged bets with a fiver on Linfield to qualify at 66/1 to cover the cost of the flights. Cannot wait now.

This is exactly what I did last week as well. 

 

£10 @ 50/1 covers the lost flight money and Belfast trip!

[1rousset]

1 hour ago, loveofthegame said:

Booked up and hedged bets with a fiver on Linfield to qualify at 66/1 to cover the cost of the flights. Cannot wait now.

Put a ten spot on linfield will cover me and my 2 lads flights

[It should’ve been 12!]

Does anyone know if the fixtures are announced straight after the playoffs draw on Friday August 26th? Thanks.

[OTT]

4 hours ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

I see Qarabag, who just edged out Zurich, had another massive result in the  Champs League play offs last night. Zurich is going to be a real test for us. Especially if no more signings by Friday

 

I'd love a RCB in before the qualifier. 

 

If not, I'd like to see Smith in there with Atkinson as the RWB. 

[Sherbet]

7 minutes ago, It should’ve been 12! said:

Does anyone know if the fixtures are announced straight after the playoffs draw on Friday August 26th? Thanks.

Think so

[Elljay]

19 hours ago, Jamboross said:

 

That's considerably more than I expected and if this year is anything similar makes getting past Zurich all the more lucrative regardless of where Rangers end up. Where did you find that figure? I spent ages weeks ago trying to find out what each country got as their pool share and couldn't find anything!

Found it! Page 44
https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0275-151e1a55c231-ef1c32b881dc-1000/en_ln_uefa_financial_report_2020-2021.pdf