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Ed Sheeran - Copyright


Japan Jambo

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It's a useful line in the sand to deter opportunistic copyright disputes that are sometimes settled on to avoid legal costs.  Mind you it was a very wealthy musician in Sheeran.  Others do not have his financial clout.  As an example,  these two songs that sound very similar in parts did not pass the court's test for being similar enough.  Maybe that will tend to deter chancers from making claims.

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Japan Jambo
15 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

If court cases aren’t bad enough, imagine having to listen to Ed Sheeran sing too. 

 

🤣

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Lone Striker
31 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's a useful line in the sand to deter opportunistic copyright disputes that are sometimes settled on to avoid legal costs.  Mind you it was a very wealthy musician in Sheeran.  Others do not have his financial clout.  As an example,  these two songs that sound very similar in parts did not pass the court's test for being similar enough.  Maybe that will tend to deter chancers from making claims.

There was a copyright lawyer on the radio tonight explaining that there's 2 tests that the complainer needs to pass.   One is the extent to which 2 songs have the same musical sequences, and the other is to show that the defendant did actually listen to the complainer's song  before writing his one.  How that second one can be demonstrated, I don't know.

 

The musical plagiarism industry seem quite lucrative for the legal profession though.

 

 

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Just now, Lone Striker said:

There was a copyright lawyer on the radio tonight explaining that there's 2 tests that the complainer needs to pass.   One is the extent to which 2 songs have the same musical sequences, and the other is to show that the defendant did actually listen to the complainer's song  before writing his one.  How that second one can be demonstrated, I don't know.

 

The musical plagiarism industry seem quite lucrative for the legal profession though.

 

 

 

Yes the second does seem very hard to prove.  The thought did come to me that an instance could occur where someone's streaming service accounts might need to be submitted for evidence.  But that proves nothing as well.  

 

I think musicians would just rather accept that musical compositions,  riffs and chord structures are finite and susceptible to occasional similarity.

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Just about every dance track from the late 80's onwards would be totally illegal due to the industrial amounts of sampling done.

 

Some entire dance tracks were nothing but old samples stitched together.

 

Here's a breakdown of just one well-known track.

 

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Lone Striker
25 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes the second does seem very hard to prove.  The thought did come to me that an instance could occur where someone's streaming service accounts might need to be submitted for evidence.  But that proves nothing as well.  

 

I think musicians would just rather accept that musical compositions,  riffs and chord structures are finite and susceptible to occasional similarity.

That seemed to be Sheeran's standpoint.   Sub-conscious plagiarism, or something like that.

 

  The way round it all seems to be for the 2 parties to settle out of court - complainer gets an official credit as a co-writer and a  wee percentage of the takings,   It seems to have happened loads of times in the past, going back to George Harrison, Rod Stewart etc  

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31 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes the second does seem very hard to prove.  The thought did come to me that an instance could occur where someone's streaming service accounts might need to be submitted for evidence.  But that proves nothing as well.  

 

I think musicians would just rather accept that musical compositions,  riffs and chord structures are finite and susceptible to occasional similarity.

 

 

One of the Gallagher brothers can't mind which one said he doesn't care If people steal their work because they've stole loads themselves.

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7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

That seemed to be Sheeran's standpoint.   Sub-conscious plagiarism, or something like that.

 

  The way round it all seems to be for the 2 parties to settle out of court - complainer gets an official credit as a co-writer and a  wee percentage of the takings,   It seems to have happened loads of times in the past, going back to George Harrison, Rod Stewart etc  

The sub conscious thing is a good call. I came up with a really funky little chord sequence on my guitar a while back and was chuffed with it. Then about a fortnight later was listening to a random soul playlist on Spotify on the bus and there it was. A song I wasn’t consciously familiar with but had somehow got it in my head. 

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CF11JamTart
33 minutes ago, Tazio said:

The sub conscious thing is a good call. I came up with a really funky little chord sequence on my guitar a while back and was chuffed with it. Then about a fortnight later was listening to a random soul playlist on Spotify on the bus and there it was. A song I wasn’t consciously familiar with but had somehow got it in my head. 

Johnny Marr kinda said the same thing. 

 

He was mucking about with his guitar found a riff, thought "oooooh this is good. I'll do something with THIS!". 

 

Bandmate walks in, and says "Depeche Mode... I feel you..  Nice one. Are we gonna cover that in the tour?" 

 

(They did). 

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2 hours ago, Cade said:

Just about every dance track from the late 80's onwards would be totally illegal due to the industrial amounts of sampling done.

 

Some entire dance tracks were nothing but old samples stitched together.

 

Here's a breakdown of just one well-known track.

 

Bit off topic, but my favourite sample from that genre/era is Voodoo Ray from A Guy Called Gerald. The main vocal sample is from a comedy LP which said Voodoo Rage, but the lack of memory on their recording equipment cut it off early and Voodoo Ray was born. 

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luckyBatistuta
23 minutes ago, Locky said:

Bit off topic, but my favourite sample from that genre/era is Voodoo Ray from A Guy Called Gerald. The main vocal sample is from a comedy LP which said Voodoo Rage, but the lack of memory on their recording equipment cut it off early and Voodoo Ray was born. 

Now that is a top top track, great taste Locky

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ArcticJambo

It's all a bit convenient really!  I used to trawl through tonnes of soundcloud back in the day.  one of sheeran's writewrs could easily have taken a section out of an obscure track, and jazzed it up, slowed down the temp or whatever, and then aplly the well theres only 8 notes in music so its inevitable that we might end up with something a bit similar defence. 

 

The shape of me, has been played something like 3 billion times on Spotify, a record and makes the three writers ¬5 mill a year, and that might even bde each.  Like aye, the trial must have been excrutiastingly painful for them! :rolleyes2:

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A Boy Named Crow
6 hours ago, Cade said:

Just about every dance track from the late 80's onwards would be totally illegal due to the industrial amounts of sampling done.

 

Some entire dance tracks were nothing but old samples stitched together.

 

Here's a breakdown of just one well-known track.

 

I'd say there's a big difference between taking multiple samples and reworking them into something new like this ^^^, and just stealing someone else's tune (Oasis copying How Sweet To Be An Idiot for Whatever,  or Ed Sheeran using No Scrubs by TLC for Shape Of You for example).

 

Sampling is an art in itself, but being a lazy songwriter is not...

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heartgarfunkel
7 hours ago, Locky said:

Bit off topic, but my favourite sample from that genre/era is Voodoo Ray from A Guy Called Gerald. The main vocal sample is from a comedy LP which said Voodoo Rage, but the lack of memory on their recording equipment cut it off early and Voodoo Ray was born. 

 

6 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Now that is a top top track, great taste Locky


Outstanding track, never get tired of listening to it. Think it may be Peter Cook or Dudley Moore’s voice on the truncated vocal sample. 

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9 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

Now that is a top top track, great taste Locky

 

2 hours ago, heartgarfunkel said:

 


Outstanding track, never get tired of listening to it. Think it may be Peter Cook or Dudley Moore’s voice on the truncated vocal sample. 

It's Peter Cook I'm sure. great tune. 😎 

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Haven't really followed it as would mean listening to Ed Sheeran's music.

Is the rip off as bad as his Bad Habits song from Smalltown Boy by Bronski Beat?

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Footballfirst

If you have the time, the full judgement is worth a read.  The judge appears to have a good personal knowledge of music and structures.

 

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2022/827.html

 

Some examples of the judge's comments

 

They are both harmonised with the melody being doubled an octave above and/or below. The defendants label this a "vocal chant pitched in a low register". I accept that both involve a vocal chant of some kind, I do not agree that the OI Phrase is in a low register: to my ear both the low and high harmonies can be heard equally.

 

There are subtle differences between the tunes. The OW Hook interposes a "b" between the A and C, so that it sounds: A-A; b/c-C; D-D; E-E (the lower case letters representing notes of twice the speed of the capital letters). Mr Siddell said that he excluded the "b" from his transcription because it was a feature of performance, not part of the composition. The defendants contend that it cannot be heard unless the music is slowed down. I disagree. Upon listening to the song, the "b" is clearly discernible each time the OW Hook is sung as a separate, albeit short, note linking the A and the C. It is not, to my ear, a mere feature of performance such as a grace note. In addition, the fourth time the OW Hook is sung, a top G is sung before the E, so that it sounds: A-A; b/c-C; D-D; g/E 

 

In contrast, in Shape the "Oh" of the phrase "Oh I" is to my ear very clearly on the beat and, despite the syncopated rhythms, throughout Shape there is a very clear sense of the beat. The difference is not a mere musical technicality. The stress being placed on "why" is fundamental to the mood of the song, as the repeated "oh why" leads into the question asked in the following bar (e.g. "why do I put myself through this?"). That is not so in Shape, where the OI Phrase is simply a lead in to "I'm in love with your body", so that the ear naturally hears the emphasis falling on the first of each of the two repeated notes: "oh-I; oh-I; oh-I; oh-I."

 

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