Absolute Scenes Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said: Although bizarrely Oil which is a tradeable asset fell to below $0 at the start of Covid for a couple days and look at it now. Anyway in answer to the above - Simms and Shankland. I say that in the knowledge we’d just get an alternative AM instead of Ronan. Centre forward is the bigger concern than midfield at this moment. Absolutely take both simms and Shanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: Why? You don't think we'd pay tax on a player sale? I'm no expert. I just figured we'd need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1980 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Heartsofgold said: Zero. They received their payment when he left us. They are due the square root of **** all from any sell on clause that was negotiated. UEFA regulations mean that, at Hickey's age, all of his development clubs will get a cut of the transfer fee. I can't remember the percentages off the top of my head, but Celtic will get a couple of percent or so of the fee. Even if we didn't have a sell on clause, we would still automatically get a development percentage. In theory, we should get our sell on percentage (e.g. 15% if that is correct) plus a further development percentage from the UEFA regulations (assuming, that is, that the reports/rumours haven't combined the two separate sell on percentages into the one 15% figure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: Yes - but houses have a value every day of the year forever, albeit a fluctuating one. Never zero. If someone buys the house outright, I'd receive 15% of the money and have to pay CGT on it if it was above the tax threshold. Not really comparable to a footballer on a short contract which means he has zero value at the end of it. imo, its just extra transfer income which wouldn't have materialised if Brentford had waited till he became a free agent. Anywho, as @jamboAl and @Tom Hardy’s Dug have said, it disnae really matter - I'm sure Jacqui Duncan knows what it is. 😉 A house only realises it's value when sold too though. Hickey was always going to move again from Bologna. That was obvious from clubs like Bayern and City showing an initial interest. Very likely move again from Brentford to a top six club around 2024/25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, DC_92 said: Not playing "for family reasons" according to the previous tweet. Family reasons=packing the house up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 25 minutes ago, cosanostra said: You don't think we'd pay tax on a player sale? I'm no expert. I just figured we'd need to. Cover it as an ongoing operating loss. All companies do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolute Scenes Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Sertse said: Family reasons=packing the house up I’ll take that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, cosanostra said: You don't think we'd pay tax on a player sale? I'm no expert. I just figured we'd need to. A business is only taxed on profit, not on individual sales. Regardless of how many players we sell, and how much we get paid for the players, we will only be taxed if we show a profit in our profit and loss accounts for the year. Even then a busines can set profits off against previous years losses. We will not pay tax, specifically, on any money we receive for Hickey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolute Scenes Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Anyone follow Shankland Mrs on Twitter/Facebook etc? I remember Whelans wife blabbing they were moving to Edinburgh before he was unveiled, wondered if anything had been said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: A business is only taxed on profit, not on individual sales. Regardless of how many players we sell, and how much we get paid for the players, we will only be taxed if we show a profit in our profit and loss accounts for the year. Even then a busines can set profits off against previous years losses. We will not pay tax, specifically, on any money we receive for Hickey. Thanks. Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: A business is only taxed on profit, not on individual sales. Regardless of how many players we sell, and how much we get paid for the players, we will only be taxed if we show a profit in our profit and loss accounts for the year. Even then a busines can set profits off against previous years losses. We will not pay tax, specifically, on any money we receive for Hickey. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, cosanostra said: Thanks. Makes sense. One thing though, I don't know if player sales attract VAT, but again, any VAT paid is offset against VAT received limiting the potential effect on any transfer income we receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: One thing though, I don't know if player sales attract VAT, but again, any VAT paid is offset against VAT received limiting the potential effect on any transfer income we receive. Only on domestic transfers I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spug Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 39 minutes ago, jambo1980 said: UEFA regulations mean that, at Hickey's age, all of his development clubs will get a cut of the transfer fee. I can't remember the percentages off the top of my head, but Celtic will get a couple of percent or so of the fee. Even if we didn't have a sell on clause, we would still automatically get a development percentage. In theory, we should get our sell on percentage (e.g. 15% if that is correct) plus a further development percentage from the UEFA regulations (assuming, that is, that the reports/rumours haven't combined the two separate sell on percentages into the one 15% figure). Celtic have got all they’re getting from the Hickey deal. That came straight from Joe Savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1980 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, spug said: Celtic have got all they’re getting from the Hickey deal. That came straight from Joe Savage. They won't get any money from us or from our cut but they will get a small percentage of the sale under FIFA solidarity payment regulations (I previous said UEFA but it's actually a FIFA thing - this source is from the FAI but still lays out the guidelines and percentages for development fees that are paid from transfer fees to clubs a player was at up to the age of 23 https://www.fai.ie/domestic/governance/fifa-solidarity-and-compensation-payments). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Ronaldo wants to leave Manchester United to win more trophies. Could do a job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixHearts Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 10 hours ago, gar jambo said: Go on fifa rating and you will really see how slow he is, 👍 Fifa has Gordon as the 3rd best rated keeper in the SPFL behind the likes of Joe Hart. Very trustworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Ronaldo wants to leave Manchester United to win more trophies. Could do a job Off piste a bit but I’ve argued before that I’d love Ronaldo and Messi to have went to a smaller club and win the league for them to truly prove their greatness - ala Maradona at Napoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1.5 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said: Off piste a bit but I’ve argued before that I’d love Ronaldo and Messi to have went to a smaller club and win the league for them to truly prove their greatness - ala Maradona at Napoli. Same for the likes of Pepe, Klopp etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Italian Lambretta said: So if we could only afford 2 of 3 which players would it be? Shankland Ronan Simms Simms, Simms and Simms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 19 minutes ago, Sertse said: 1.5 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hardy’s Dug Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Same for the likes of Pepe, Klopp etc If they genuinely backed themselves as coaches… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jambo1980 said: UEFA regulations mean that, at Hickey's age, all of his development clubs will get a cut of the transfer fee. I can't remember the percentages off the top of my head, but Celtic will get a couple of percent or so of the fee. Even if we didn't have a sell on clause, we would still automatically get a development percentage. In theory, we should get our sell on percentage (e.g. 15% if that is correct) plus a further development percentage from the UEFA regulations (assuming, that is, that the reports/rumours haven't combined the two separate sell on percentages into the one 15% figure). BUT the portion of the fee Celtic received was a SELL ON percentage not a development fee. This was in lieu of any development fee. That’s why it was a flat 30% and not within the development fee range. IF there is any development fee due the Bologna pay it to Celtic out of their cut. Not us. Edited July 2, 2022 by Heartsofgold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spug Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 40 minutes ago, jambo1980 said: They won't get any money from us or from our cut but they will get a small percentage of the sale under FIFA solidarity payment regulations (I previous said UEFA but it's actually a FIFA thing - this source is from the FAI but still lays out the guidelines and percentages for development fees that are paid from transfer fees to clubs a player was at up to the age of 23 https://www.fai.ie/domestic/governance/fifa-solidarity-and-compensation-payments). Cheers for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1980 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: BUT the portion of the fee Celtic received was a SELL ON percentage not a development fee. This was in lieu of any development fee. That’s why it was a flat 30% and not within the development fee range. IF there is any development fee due the Bologna pay it to Celtic out of their cut. Not us. Agreed, it would come out of Bologna's fee. I never said it would come from us, my posts were just clarifying that Celtic would get money from the transfer (my second post a wee while ago made it clearer that it wouldn't be coming from us). I've seen a bunch of posts over the last few months saying Celtic won't get any money from the transfer. That isn't true, but it is true they won't be getting it from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakred Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: A business is only taxed on profit, not on individual sales. Regardless of how many players we sell, and how much we get paid for the players, we will only be taxed if we show a profit in our profit and loss accounts for the year. Even then a busines can set profits off against previous years losses. We will not pay tax, specifically, on any money we receive for Hickey. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 £1.5m is disappointing imo if this is accurate but it puts us in a good position for acquisitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 46 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Same for the likes of Pepe, Klopp etc I think what Klopp did with Dortmund was pretty special, I think it was their 7&8th titles ever. Pep certainly hasn’t picked small clubs at any point yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, cosanostra said: You don't think we'd pay tax on a player sale? I'm no expert. I just figured we'd need to. Surely we pay tax on our profit. Anything we gain from player sales counts alongside other money we have coming in, which is offset against all outgoings to arrive at a profit or loss before tax. We only pay tax on any profit made. So if we spend everything we earn we'll pay no tax. I'm not suggesting we'll do that, but there's no tax on individual player sales, they all form part of the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 46 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said: If they genuinely backed themselves as coaches… I wonder how many coaches could have achieved a cup double with St Johnstone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said: £1.5m is disappointing imo if this is accurate but it puts us in a good position for acquisitions. Who knows what the real sell on percentage is. What I do know is, if I were Joe Savage, I’d be leaking a lower figure to journalists to try to keep the demands of inbound transfers lower. Whatever it is will be useful. Edited July 2, 2022 by CMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 2 hours ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: A business is only taxed on profit, not on individual sales. Regardless of how many players we sell, and how much we get paid for the players, we will only be taxed if we show a profit in our profit and loss accounts for the year. Even then a busines can set profits off against previous years losses. We will not pay tax, specifically, on any money we receive for Hickey. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 While it's good to get money for the Hickey transfer, it's a real shame we couldn't command a higher fee How good can we get it for the next Hickey? Are we in a position to demand big money, like the Gordon deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Silly season in full swing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 6 hours ago, Agentjambo said: You know there are other strikers out there apart from Simms…. Yep, there's Shankland! 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 minute ago, The Hogfather said: Silly season in full swing here. I'd rather have Simms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 minute ago, indianajones said: I'd rather have Simms. You've got to think they're getting the two mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 4 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said: Player sale = income = taxable asset Mind you dunno if it is income tax or CGT which I would be vaguely interested to know. Companies are generally taxed on profit, not income or assets. Income tax and CGT are paid by people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmcjambo Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, The Hogfather said: Silly season in full swing here. This account has 42 followers! Not sure it has much cred at all….and the post also seems to confirm that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 4 hours ago, Chaps said: I’m sure it was posted on here that we won’t be taking Hickey money into account for this season coming it will be next summer transfer window. Could have completely imagined this though. And if you didn't imagine it, the person who posted it almost certainly imagined it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sertse Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 28 minutes ago, The Hogfather said: Silly season in full swing here. That's a banter post surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectormasson Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Just now, Sertse said: That's a banter post surely 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😚 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Rondon would probably then want that same amount in wages 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 32 minutes ago, The Hogfather said: Silly season in full swing here. Hahahahaha they’d be lucky to get £250k 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 2 hours ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: One thing though, I don't know if player sales attract VAT, but again, any VAT paid is offset against VAT received limiting the potential effect on any transfer income we receive. I'm not absolutely 100% sure but I'm about 95% sure that VAT is only actually ultimately paid by individuals, i.e. it's charged on items and services bought by people. Companies will generally pay prices not including VAT, and in any circumstances where they do pay VAT when buying something, they'll be able to reclaim that as part of quarterly VAT returns. So no, player purchases wouldn't incur VAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 44 minutes ago, The Hogfather said: Silly season in full swing here. 😆 Would rather have simms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One five Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 44 minutes ago, The Hogfather said: Silly season in full swing here. What next 🤦♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 53 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: While it's good to get money for the Hickey transfer, it's a real shame we couldn't command a higher fee How good can we get it for the next Hickey? Are we in a position to demand big money, like the Gordon deal? £3.5m or thereabouts for an 18/19 year old with limited first team experience is great business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: £3.5m or thereabouts for an 18/19 year old with limited first team experience is great business Yes, but if he was part of Brentford's Academy, they would get £20M - £24M for him from the likes of Arsenal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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