energy prices

[Dick Dastardly]

17 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Saw that or similar on reddit. It's not standing charges either.

I'm wondering what type of bullshit algorithm they use to inflate our predicted charges, if it can multiply 0...

Well this is the same company that tried to charge me 12,000 for a years gas and wouldn't even consider that it might be incorrect. That is the main reason my current usage is 0

[Gizmo]

13 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Well this is the same company that tried to charge me 12,000 for a years gas and wouldn't even consider that it might be incorrect. That is the main reason my current usage is 0

 

£12K! Ffs. 😲

They make it up as they go along. Absolutely lower than the telcoms companies, which is saying something.  

[Dick Dastardly]

4 hours ago, Gizmo said:

 

£12K! Ffs. 😲

They make it up as they go along. Absolutely lower than the telcoms companies, which is saying something.  

Yup, complete w@#ks

Edited July 1, 2022 by Dick Dastardly

[Greedy Jambo]

I was 3rd in the cue to pay in the petrol station earlier, over £100 they both had to pay. 

Absolutely ****ing ridiculous, they didn't even bat an eye lid either, cheery chappies. 

[milky_26]

11 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Thats a fair hike in price

i cant help but lauging but that is how preposperous that is

[A Boy Named Crow]

Genuine question,  are the high energy prices in the UK because of rising commodity prices,  or are the energy companies taking the piss?

 

I ask because I've read a lot about the power cost increases, but also a lot about energy company profits.

 

If it's the latter, folk should just en masse stop paying the bills.

[John Gentleman]

12 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Thats a fair hike in price

I'm trying to bend my heid around gas consumption being charged per kWh rather than megajoules. I've no idea what the reasoning is there....

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Genuine question,  are the high energy prices in the UK because of rising commodity prices,  or are the energy companies taking the piss?

 

I ask because I've read a lot about the power cost increases, but also a lot about energy company profits.

 

If it's the latter, folk should just en masse stop paying the bills.

And then get cut off during winter 🥶

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

And then get cut off during winter 🥶

If everybody stopped paying, and everybody got cut off, the erm, political landscape would change quite quickly.  .

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

If everybody stopped paying, and everybody got cut off, the erm, political landscape would change quite quickly.  .

Yes, I know. The poor will  all die.

[A Boy Named Crow]

2 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Genuine question,  are the high energy prices in the UK because of rising commodity prices,  or are the energy companies taking the piss?

 

I ask because I've read a lot about the power cost increases, but also a lot about energy company profits.

 

If it's the latter, folk should just en masse stop paying the bills.

Hang on, I think I've got it,  producers are coining it! The companies that just buy and sell are struggling. 

 

It's still nuts though,  you're paying about the same for petrol in GBP as we are paying in AUD, given the exchange rate is $1.77 to the pound,  that's insane!

[ri Alban]

This doesn't a/effect the well off, which includes heavily subsidised pensioners. This is crippling the used to be just abouts and the so called benefit cheats. The only benefits cheats are the elite who rip off the system and take back what they can. The Queen her family and all the Mps being the biggest benefits cheats out there. 

I'll never understand how any working class man or woman can think Boris, Rishi and Mogg know what it's like to be in their shoes. They don't and never will and they actually without hiding it, hate you and don't give a feck if you die.

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Hang on, I think I've got it,  producers are coining it! The companies that just buy and sell are struggling. 

 

It's still nuts though,  you're paying about the same for petrol in GBP as we are paying in AUD, given the exchange rate is $1.77 to the pound,  that's insane!

£2 for diesel.

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

£2 for diesel.

Aye, it's around $2 ish here.  

[ri Alban]

Just now, A Boy Named Crow said:

Aye, it's around $2 ish here.  

Which is how much if it were the GBP?

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Which is how much if it were the GBP?

1.13 GBP

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

1.13 GBP

[A Boy Named Crow]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The British government must be taxing the shit out of this 'cost of living' crisis!

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

The British government must be taxing the shit out of this 'cost of living' crisis!

They are, but the retailers are taking the pish, especially the oil company named stations. Tho, the supermarkets are in on it anaw. 

 

Oil, gas and electricity gathered from Scotland and sold back to us for a fortune. 

[John Gentleman]

14 hours ago, Gizmo said:

 

£12K! Ffs. 😲

They make it up as they go along. Absolutely lower than the telcoms companies, which is saying something.  

 

2 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

I'm trying to bend my heid around gas consumption being charged per kWh rather than megajoules. I've no idea what the reasoning is there....

I've found the 'how' but not the 'why'........

Take your meter reading in m³ (or ft³ if you've got an older meter).

Multiply by a m³ > Megajoule conversion factor of 39.5.

Multiply the result by expansion/contraction "fudge" factor of 1.02264.

Divide the result by 3.6 to get a kWh 'equivalent'.  

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gas-meter-readings-and-bill-calculation

 

I think UK consumers are being spivved twice. The conversion factor of 39.5 looks high compared to Australia's 38.61 and the 'fudge factor' doesn't exist at at all here. I think UK energy distributors are covering mains leakage with the 'fudge', ie, they don't have any real incentive to improve their infrastructure. Why would they, if they can just recover their losses from the consumer?

[ri Alban]

What's the chances of the prices going down. Anyone think Petrol will go back to £1.20. personally, this will be accepted as usual and it's the new starting price. 

 

And I don't remember petrol being this dear when the oil was the same price 10 years ago.

[John Gentleman]

9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What's the chances of the prices going down. Anyone think Petrol will go back to £1.20. personally, this will be accepted as usual and it's the new starting price. 

 

And I don't remember petrol being this dear when the oil was the same price 10 years ago.

Here's the charts....

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gasoline-prices

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Here's the charts....

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gasoline-prices

How we're meant to afford this, whilst wages don't mirror the cost of living is beyond me. 

 

Caps need to be put in place by the government, but they're too busy trying to cover their fraudulent activity during lockdown.  Something will happen and it may not be jolly.

[jvm32]

1 hour ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

1.13 GBP

Not at the current exchange rate, the £ is piss weak against the dollar at the moment, so $2 is about £1.65 at the moment. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

5 minutes ago, jvm32 said:

Not at the current exchange rate, the £ is piss weak against the dollar at the moment, so $2 is about £1.65 at the moment. 

I don't think you're talking about the same dollar mate. 

 

🇦🇺 

Edited July 2, 2022 by A Boy Named Crow

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, jvm32 said:

Not at the current exchange rate, the £ is piss weak against the dollar at the moment, so $2 is about £1.65 at the moment. 

Is USD or AUD?

[jvm32]

10 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

I don't think you're talking about the same dollar mate. 

 

🇦🇺

Hahaha, aye you are right, sorry, been a tit there. 

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, jvm32 said:

Hahaha, aye you are right, sorry, been a tit there. 

That's what JKB is for.

[Remnants of Standards]

Starting to cut back on short journeys now due to cost, and back on the bike around Inverness. Public transport awful up here so lots are forced to use cars especially in rural areas coming into town for work.

In turn the city centre now mostly clogged with traffic at all hours leading to health problems etc for town dwellers.

People have to rethink how many of their journies are absolutely necessary weather notwithstanding.

[jambo89]

17 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Well this is the same company that tried to charge me 12,000 for a years gas and wouldn't even consider that it might be incorrect. That is the main reason my current usage is 0

 

I've seen stories like this on a few occasions and it got me wondering. How can that number even be generated when the price cap is at £3000 odds. Or is that not how the price cap works? I thought it was a cap on companies that basically made it impossible to charge more than what Ofgem states.

[fabienleclerq]

36 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

I've seen stories like this on a few occasions and it got me wondering. How can that number even be generated when the price cap is at £3000 odds. Or is that not how the price cap works? I thought it was a cap on companies that basically made it impossible to charge more than what Ofgem states.

 

Surely the cap is per unit/kwh rather than an actual monetary amount? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Hang on, I think I've got it,  producers are coining it! The companies that just buy and sell are struggling. 

 

It's still nuts though,  you're paying about the same for petrol in GBP as we are paying in AUD, given the exchange rate is $1.77 to the pound,  that's insane!

 

My understanding is that the energy suppliers buy the gas/electricity on the wholesale market, and the price fluctuates day by day hour by hour and is influenced by many external factors.  The latest price rise in gas started with a cold winter in Asia 2 years ago, demand went through the roof, prices rise as well, then industry started to open up, more demand, I think there was major problems at 2 production plants which cut supply, prices went up again, then the war in Ukraine.....you get the picture.

 

The energy companies either had to pass on the increased costs or go bust, which 29 energy suppliers have over the last year and a half in the UK.

At various times over the last couple of years the price of a therm of gas is costing 8 times more than what you'd expect to normally pay, there is only so much companies can absorb before it has to be passed onto to the consumer.

[Dick Dastardly]

8 hours ago, milky_26 said:

i cant help but lauging but that is how preposperous that is

I know. It states i could have saved about £40 if i changed tariff. Does that mean they would owe me? 

[Dick Dastardly]

7 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

I'm trying to bend my heid around gas consumption being charged per kWh rather than megajoules. I've no idea what the reasoning is there....

I have no idea what that means, in all honesty! 

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

I've seen stories like this on a few occasions and it got me wondering. How can that number even be generated when the price cap is at £3000 odds. Or is that not how the price cap works? I thought it was a cap on companies that basically made it impossible to charge more than what Ofgem states.

I have no idea. They ended up sending debt collectors after me for £500 odd so they obviously knew they had made a mistake but didn't bother telling me. 

[Dick Dastardly]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Surely the cap is per unit/kwh rather than an actual monetary amount? 

That makes sense

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Remnants of Standards said:

Starting to cut back on short journeys now due to cost, and back on the bike around Inverness. Public transport awful up here so lots are forced to use cars especially in rural areas coming into town for work.

In turn the city centre now mostly clogged with traffic at all hours leading to health problems etc for town dwellers.

People have to rethink how many of their journies are absolutely necessary weather notwithstanding.

 

In the past, if we fancied something for tea but didn't have it, we'd have thought nothing about getting into the car, driving 10-20 miles to a supermarket and getting it, but not now, we can't afford to anymore.

So what I do now is, I use my bus pass and go and get a few odds & ends etc, that way we save on petrol.

[A Boy Named Crow]

30 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

My understanding is that the energy suppliers buy the gas/electricity on the wholesale market, and the price fluctuates day by day hour by hour and is influenced by many external factors.  The latest price rise in gas started with a cold winter in Asia 2 years ago, demand went through the roof, prices rise as well, then industry started to open up, more demand, I think there was major problems at 2 production plants which cut supply, prices went up again, then the war in Ukraine.....you get the picture.

 

The energy companies either had to pass on the increased costs or go bust, which 29 energy suppliers have over the last year and a half in the UK.

At various times over the last couple of years the price of a therm of gas is costing 8 times more than what you'd expect to normally pay, there is only so much companies can absorb before it has to be passed onto to the consumer.

Aye, I realised after I posted the question. The super profits are going to the energy producers, they are able to sell at the inflated wholesale rate to the other companies, who are then passing on the costs...or, as you say, going under. Seems like a failed market, not easy to fix if we all still subscribe to the capitalist model though. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Aye, I realised after I posted the question. The super profits are going to the energy producers, they are able to sell at the inflated wholesale rate to the other companies, who are then passing on the costs...or, as you say, going under. Seems like a failed market, not easy to fix if we all still subscribe to the capitalist model though. 

 

The market is broken now, it did work but only when the prices were relatively stable, as soon as there was volatility at wholesale level the energy supply market couldn't cope with the rapid price increases due to the energy price cap here in the UK.

Basically the situation was that due to the price cap, suppliers were buying in at say £75 but could only sell at £25, no company can survive that kind of situation for long, and many didn't.

 

How do we fix it, I don't know, what I do know is, that things won't go back to the way it was before and the days of cheap energy are most probably well and truly sadly over.

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

My understanding is that the energy suppliers buy the gas/electricity on the wholesale market, and the price fluctuates day by day hour by hour and is influenced by many external factors.  The latest price rise in gas started with a cold winter in Asia 2 years ago, demand went through the roof, prices rise as well, then industry started to open up, more demand, I think there was major problems at 2 production plants which cut supply, prices went up again, then the war in Ukraine.....you get the picture.

 

The energy companies either had to pass on the increased costs or go bust, which 29 energy suppliers have over the last year and a half in the UK.

At various times over the last couple of years the price of a therm of gas is costing 8 times more than what you'd expect to normally pay, there is only so much companies can absorb before it has to be passed onto to the consumer.

 

The big suppliers buy in bulk in advance,the smaller ones who have went bust couldn't. 

 

So the fluctuating market killed the little guys who weren't as regulated and in my experience a bit dodgy. The big companies are taking advantage of the fluctuating market imo as they already have bought their supply.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

29 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

The big suppliers buy in bulk in advance,the smaller ones who have went bust couldn't. 

 

So the fluctuating market killed the little guys who weren't as regulated and in my experience a bit dodgy. The big companies are taking advantage of the fluctuating market imo as they already have bought their supply.

 

Yip, the smaller companies didn't have the capital to buy in bulk & in advance, meaning they were left more exposed when the shit hit the fan, that's why I can't see a return to the way the market operated prior to all this.  There will be less suppliers to choose from meaning that any saving between the companies that are left is going to be minimal, certainly in the short term.

[OBE]

Mind they huge Gasometer things that blighted our landscape/inner cities, all gone, no storage facilities anymore, must've been dangerous feckin things...

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 hours ago, OBE said:

Mind they huge Gasometer things that blighted our landscape/inner cities, all gone, no storage facilities anymore, must've been dangerous feckin things...

 

Has to be better ways to store it nowadays, surely.

[joondalupjambo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61188579.amp

 

Good explanation on current oil prices and reasons for the higher pump prices.  Middle East tactics not helping, war not helping, OPEC+ not helping and all adds up to painful results.   

[Jambo_jim2001]

[Dawnrazor]

£2.05 a litre for diesel here, god knows what central heating oil and smokeless coal will be when we come to but it in a few months.

[Section Q]

Anyone have figures on the monthly debit for an average 3 bedroom Wimpey style house..?

Just wondering what everyone's paying.

[OBE]

5 hours ago, Section Q said:

Anyone have figures on the monthly debit for an average 3 bedroom Wimpey style house..?

Just wondering what everyone's paying.

 

That'll be classed as a 4 apartment?

 

Currently, £168 per month. As I've mentioned prior, Her indoors thinks the tumble drier is goosed (removed fuse). No washing done when rain is pending. 5 smoke detectors, all hard wired, they'll be gone soon. 1 base station phone/answer machine, plus 3 other handsets dotted about the gaff, all demanding juice, they're for the heave also, base station being relocated in the hall, hear it from all over the house.

 

Me, tightwad? too true, better in my pocket.

[ri Alban]

People still use landlines. 😲

[Ribble]

7 hours ago, Section Q said:

Anyone have figures on the monthly debit for an average 3 bedroom Wimpey style house..?

Just wondering what everyone's paying.

We’re about 160 a month for a 3bed but there’s only 2 of us in the house