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5 hours ago, Ked said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-08-04/european-energy-crisis-germany-s-switch-to-diesel-comes-at-a-cost

 .The cost increase of diesel will affect us all .

And the continued burning of fossil fuel which was never mentioned in the article.Im not sure if there's much difference between diesel or gas in harm.

 

 

Gas has a higher energy content, burns cleaner and more efficiently so you don't need as much of it for the same output. You also have the added benefits of zero combustion residues (such as tars, particulates and other gunk) that accumulates and eventually needs dealt with and almost zero sulfur oxide emissions (sulfur containing compounds are removed during processing, with the exception of ethyl mercaptan which is added to give it the gas 'smell' - but its ppb level amounts). 

 

It's not the answer, but gas is by far the 'cleanest' fossil fuel.

Edited by trotter
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joondalupjambo
49 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Everytime I've heard Martin Lewis go on about fixed rates, it's always been extortionate amounts he's been quoted, he's said for months that the best rates right now are the standard tariff's.  It'll probably be a few years before decent fixed term offers return to the market place

Yeah that was my understanding when hearing him but he has a formula in his website that kind of makes some sense.  However it is all depends on who you are with, your current standard tariff with them and if that formula helps or not.  My impression now was that for a very few there was a chance fix would help.  Agree though, and he still says it vast majority need to go standard.

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4 minutes ago, trotter said:

Gas has a higher energy content, burns cleaner and more efficiently so you don't need as much of it for the same output. You also have the added benefits of zero combustion residues (such as tars, particulates and other gunk) that accumulates and eventually needs dealt with and almost zero sulfur oxide emissions (sulfur containing compounds are removed during processing, with the exception of ethyl mercaptan which is added to give it the gas 'smell' - but its ppb level amounts). 

 

It's not the answer, but gas is by far the 'cleanest' fossil fuel.

Thanks.

So an extra 2,00 000barrels of diesel  oil  for Europe, conservative estimates, from October.

Diesel price rise usage rise and it would seem temperatures .

Buckle up.

 

 

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hmfc_liam06
2 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

Yeah that was my understanding when hearing him but he has a formula in his website that kind of makes some sense.  However it is all depends on who you are with, your current standard tariff with them and if that formula helps or not.  My impression now was that for a very few there was a chance fix would help.  Agree though, and he still says it vast majority need to go standard.

 

I've gone fixed as the offer was less than the expected 78% rise.

 

I was at £155 per month, the 78% increase takes that to £275. Fixed at £225.

 

I can also exit at any time, penalty free.

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Business

Why the ‘battery of Europe’ threatens to exacerbate Britain’s winter energy crisis

National Grid hopes to be able to rely on Norway – but in Oslo, energy is turning toxic

Perched on the edge of Lake Suldalsvatnet, few Britons will have heard of the Kvilldal power station.

Yet this hydroelectric plant – Norway’s largest, with capacity to power 1.7m homes – may soon play a pivotal role in keeping their lights on.

The site is one being relied on by the National Grid to provide power when the electricity network is most stretched this winter.

It is directly linked to the UK via a 450-mile interconnector that travels through underground tunnels, into the great Bokna Fjord and along the bed of the North Sea, before resurfacing in Blyth.

According to the National Grid, it allows us to tap clean power on demand when the wind isn’t blowing and our offshore turbines are standing idle. 

But this link – and others between Norway and its neighbours – is fast becoming a toxic issue for politicians in Oslo as its electricity prices rocket.

Norway’s energy troubles do not stem from a dependence on Russian natural gas. An abundance of mountain plateaus, natural lakes and fjords has allowed it to generate almost all of its electricity through hydropower for decades, backed up by small amounts of gas and wind power generation.

It is also the third largest exporter of natural gas in the world, behind only Russia and Qatar, leading some to describe Norway as the “battery of Europe”.  

Now, however, as Europe faces an energy crisis in the wake of Putin’s invasion, foreign demand for Norway’s power is having a stark impact on its consumers.

'Norway will come first'

As electricity export prices increase, so have its domestic tariffs – to record-breaking levels this summer.

Morten Frisch, a Norwegian energy consultant based in the UK, says prices this year have typically been 10 to 20 times higher than previously, adding: “This is not something people can afford to pay”.

The problem is exacerbating regional disparities, because most of Norway’s interconnectors are based in the south. 

While electricity can cost €2 per megawatt (£1.69) for households in northern areas, prices in south western Norway can be €550 per megawatt, according to Frisch.

The toll on Norway is not just financial, however. It relies on reservoirs to feed its hydroelectric plants, mostly refilled by rain or melting snow. Following a dry spell during the spring and summer, the reservoirs were last month reduced to a 20-year low of 46pc of capacity in the south west.

“This is not something you can just fill up at will,” Frisch explains. “When they run dry, they run dry, and it's likely to take a minimum of three months, possibly six months, before they can be refilled by rain. 

For Oslo’s government, this has made the subject of foreign power exports increasingly thorny. Some campaigners have called for Norway to cut itself off from Europe.

A Facebook group named Vi som krever billigere strøm (meaning ‘we who demand cheaper electricity’) has more than 600,000 members. Users complain of a “price contagion” spreading from the likes of Britain and Germany and call on Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre to take action.

Støre has argued that staying connected to Europe benefits Norway and means it can tap foreign power if needed, telling the Aftenposten newspaper: “There is reciprocity in this”. 

Yet there is pressure for a rethink. The country’s parliament could be recalled as soon as this week to discuss fresh measures to tackle the crisis. 

Ministers have discussed beefing up government support to consumers, and floated the possibility of power export restrictions. Støre’s minority Labour government is currently propped up by the Central party and relies on opposition parties to pass laws. 

Last week, Terje Aasland, the oil and energy minister, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that “concrete measures” were being devised to “limit exports when the degree of hydroelectric water reservoir filling is below a certain level.

“When there is little water in the hydroelectric water reservoirs, Norway will come first”.

It is likely to prompt further questions for the National Grid about whether Britain can rely upon Norway. 

The Grid claims there will be plenty of electricity available this winter, with a forecast buffer capacity of four gigawatts, or 6.7pc. However, this is based on expectations that the UK can draw on 5.7 gigawatts of power from Europe, or roughly 10pc of demand at peak times. That includes 1.4 gigawatts from Norway. 

“I don't think the UK should rely on the 1.4 gigawatts coming,” Frisch says.

A Grid spokesman previously said it was “important to note that a stress period in Great Britain coinciding with one in Europe is extremely unlikely and to date has never happened before.”

A UK Government spokesman insisted that Britain had "secure and diverse energy supplies", including gas reserves in the North Sea. He added that the North Sea Link with Norway would bring "stability and security to both our countries’ power markets – bringing mutual benefits and ensuring efficient electricity trading".

Kathryn Porter, a UK energy analyst behind the consultancy Watt Logic, thinks the British and Norwegian governments should discuss in more detail what would happen in that unlikely scenario - and whether we can do more to help Norway.

The UK could agree to send more power to Norway in the months ahead of winter to reduce strain on its reservoirs, for instance.

“If they use that water today, then it really won’t be available tomorrow,” she adds. “Foreign demand is using up a scarce resource that is supposed to benefit the citizens of Norway, who paid for it.”

That is worth remembering this winter, when flipping a light switch in Britain uses power generated more than 400 miles away in Kvilldal.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
17 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Business

Why the ‘battery of Europe’ threatens to exacerbate Britain’s winter energy crisis

National Grid hopes to be able to rely on Norway – but in Oslo, energy is turning toxic

Perched on the edge of Lake Suldalsvatnet, few Britons will have heard of the Kvilldal power station.

Yet this hydroelectric plant – Norway’s largest, with capacity to power 1.7m homes – may soon play a pivotal role in keeping their lights on.

The site is one being relied on by the National Grid to provide power when the electricity network is most stretched this winter.

It is directly linked to the UK via a 450-mile interconnector that travels through underground tunnels, into the great Bokna Fjord and along the bed of the North Sea, before resurfacing in Blyth.

According to the National Grid, it allows us to tap clean power on demand when the wind isn’t blowing and our offshore turbines are standing idle. 

But this link – and others between Norway and its neighbours – is fast becoming a toxic issue for politicians in Oslo as its electricity prices rocket.

Norway’s energy troubles do not stem from a dependence on Russian natural gas. An abundance of mountain plateaus, natural lakes and fjords has allowed it to generate almost all of its electricity through hydropower for decades, backed up by small amounts of gas and wind power generation.

It is also the third largest exporter of natural gas in the world, behind only Russia and Qatar, leading some to describe Norway as the “battery of Europe”.  

Now, however, as Europe faces an energy crisis in the wake of Putin’s invasion, foreign demand for Norway’s power is having a stark impact on its consumers.

'Norway will come first'

As electricity export prices increase, so have its domestic tariffs – to record-breaking levels this summer.

Morten Frisch, a Norwegian energy consultant based in the UK, says prices this year have typically been 10 to 20 times higher than previously, adding: “This is not something people can afford to pay”.

The problem is exacerbating regional disparities, because most of Norway’s interconnectors are based in the south. 

While electricity can cost €2 per megawatt (£1.69) for households in northern areas, prices in south western Norway can be €550 per megawatt, according to Frisch.

The toll on Norway is not just financial, however. It relies on reservoirs to feed its hydroelectric plants, mostly refilled by rain or melting snow. Following a dry spell during the spring and summer, the reservoirs were last month reduced to a 20-year low of 46pc of capacity in the south west.

“This is not something you can just fill up at will,” Frisch explains. “When they run dry, they run dry, and it's likely to take a minimum of three months, possibly six months, before they can be refilled by rain. 

For Oslo’s government, this has made the subject of foreign power exports increasingly thorny. Some campaigners have called for Norway to cut itself off from Europe.

A Facebook group named Vi som krever billigere strøm (meaning ‘we who demand cheaper electricity’) has more than 600,000 members. Users complain of a “price contagion” spreading from the likes of Britain and Germany and call on Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre to take action.

Støre has argued that staying connected to Europe benefits Norway and means it can tap foreign power if needed, telling the Aftenposten newspaper: “There is reciprocity in this”. 

Yet there is pressure for a rethink. The country’s parliament could be recalled as soon as this week to discuss fresh measures to tackle the crisis. 

Ministers have discussed beefing up government support to consumers, and floated the possibility of power export restrictions. Støre’s minority Labour government is currently propped up by the Central party and relies on opposition parties to pass laws. 

Last week, Terje Aasland, the oil and energy minister, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that “concrete measures” were being devised to “limit exports when the degree of hydroelectric water reservoir filling is below a certain level.

“When there is little water in the hydroelectric water reservoirs, Norway will come first”.

It is likely to prompt further questions for the National Grid about whether Britain can rely upon Norway. 

The Grid claims there will be plenty of electricity available this winter, with a forecast buffer capacity of four gigawatts, or 6.7pc. However, this is based on expectations that the UK can draw on 5.7 gigawatts of power from Europe, or roughly 10pc of demand at peak times. That includes 1.4 gigawatts from Norway. 

“I don't think the UK should rely on the 1.4 gigawatts coming,” Frisch says.

A Grid spokesman previously said it was “important to note that a stress period in Great Britain coinciding with one in Europe is extremely unlikely and to date has never happened before.”

A UK Government spokesman insisted that Britain had "secure and diverse energy supplies", including gas reserves in the North Sea. He added that the North Sea Link with Norway would bring "stability and security to both our countries’ power markets – bringing mutual benefits and ensuring efficient electricity trading".

Kathryn Porter, a UK energy analyst behind the consultancy Watt Logic, thinks the British and Norwegian governments should discuss in more detail what would happen in that unlikely scenario - and whether we can do more to help Norway.

The UK could agree to send more power to Norway in the months ahead of winter to reduce strain on its reservoirs, for instance.

“If they use that water today, then it really won’t be available tomorrow,” she adds. “Foreign demand is using up a scarce resource that is supposed to benefit the citizens of Norway, who paid for it.”

That is worth remembering this winter, when flipping a light switch in Britain uses power generated more than 400 miles away in Kvilldal.

 

 

I would not be shocked nor surprised that there are widespread power cuts all over Europe, especially if it's a hard winter.

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The Mighty Thor

No handouts while your bill goes up to 500 a month. 

 

You'll get 1p off tax though worth 160 a year 😂

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4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I would not be shocked nor surprised that there are widespread power cuts all over Europe, especially if it's a hard winter.

We need to up our self sufficiency as far as power goes. By any means possible IMO 

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4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No handouts while your bill goes up to 500 a month. 

 

You'll get 1p off tax though worth 160 a year 😂

They need to commit to taxing the huge profits bring made by the energy companies. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No handouts while your bill goes up to 500 a month. 

 

You'll get 1p off tax though worth 160 a year 😂

 

Yip heard that on the news, Truss saying that there would be no more handouts.

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The Mighty Thor
1 minute ago, Imaman said:

They need to commit to taxing the huge profits bring made by the energy companies. 

No they're going to cut corporation tax to allow them to make more money.

 

While you freeze, starve or both. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
7 minutes ago, Imaman said:

We need to up our self sufficiency as far as power goes. By any means possible IMO 

 

If Russia completely cut supplies of oil & gas to Europe during the winter, which there is every chance they will do, then any country including the UK which has any supplies of oil and or gas will be forced to drill, frack or mine it.

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1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yip heard that on the news, Truss saying that there would be no more handouts.

 

Riots will be coming if that is their attitude.

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1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No handouts while your bill goes up to 500 a month. 

 

You'll get 1p off tax though worth 160 a year 😂

 

What a nasty, horrible bad hearted piece of shit she is. Her parents are dyed in the wool lefties as well. They must be horrified at the selfish ***** they raised. 

 

Unprecedented cost of living crisis, energy bills through the roof and she's basically tossed us a few pennies and expecting praise for it. 

 

Elderly people are going to die this winter because of the choices of this government. 

 

Its ****ing unconscionable. 

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Jambof3tornado
13 hours ago, Ked said:

Spain is now setting new laws regarding energy use.

Such as no air con till 27° and heating till below 19°. .There are other restrictions on energy use.

It's being sold as sacrifice for Ukraine war amongst other things.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/costa-del-sol-spain-air-conditioning-energy-saving-rules-british-tourists-b1016853.html

 

Some argue that we should be doing this anyway .

Sounds like my house(without the air con). If its 19°c in the front room then no heating required!!!!

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5 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Riots will be coming if that is their attitude.

We'll have to riot to keep warm.......

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Doctor FinnBarr
8 minutes ago, Section Q said:

We'll have to riot to keep warm.......

 

Not making light of the situation but fluffy dressing gowns are the way to go.

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The Mighty Thor
4 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Not making light of the situation but fluffy dressing gowns are the way to go.

image.thumb.png.fad4e5c9cb92c79e32cc5fd1c7f9ba5e.png

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Glad I never switched to DD's and I still pay quarterly via a manually entered meter reading for gas and electricity.

 

I put money aside each month to cover the quarterly cost when the bill arrives and if I want to limit my power consumption to save I can and there is no 'credit' that I can't withdraw from these corrupt energy companies as they never see any of it in the first place.

 

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Konrad von Carstein
19 minutes ago, kila said:

Glad I never switched to DD's and I still pay quarterly via a manually entered meter reading for gas and electricity.

 

I put money aside each month to cover the quarterly cost when the bill arrives and if I want to limit my power consumption to save I can and there is no 'credit' that I can't withdraw from these corrupt energy companies as they never see any of it in the first place.

 

I was around £500 in credit earlier this year. Eon paid £350 into my account on request.

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9 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

I was around £500 in credit earlier this year. Eon paid £350 into my account on request.

 

I don't like the idea of being in credit with a company who are at it with profiteering. If you asked for the full £500 because you're switching suppliers would they have given you it?

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Konrad von Carstein
1 minute ago, kila said:

 

I don't like the idea of being in credit with a company who are at it with profiteering. If you asked for the full £500 because you're switching suppliers would they have given you it?

I would imagine so, it would be theft not to.

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3 hours ago, kila said:

 

I don't like the idea of being in credit with a company who are at it with profiteering. If you asked for the full £500 because you're switching suppliers would they have given you it?

They have to give you it. Some company said I moved to them and Scottish power owed me about a grand I didn't even know they owed me. :laugh2: Spent it on rubbish.

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 hours ago, kila said:

 

I don't like the idea of being in credit with a company who are at it with profiteering. If you asked for the full £500 because you're switching suppliers would they have given you it?

 

Yes they have to refund the full amount, less the cost of the energy you've used up to your transfer date.

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Harry Potter
4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yes they have to refund the full amount, less the cost of the energy you've used up to your transfer date.

be lucky if anyone is in credit with these profit loving sharks. biggest rip-off ever.

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Put the energy cap back on and stop people suffering. The companies can profit when we come out the other side of  inflation hardship and when we can afford to pay higher prices, when everyone has a better wage.

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The Real Maroonblood
33 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Put the energy cap back on and stop people suffering. The companies can profit when we come out the other side of  inflation hardship and when we can afford to pay higher prices, when everyone has a better wage.

Fat chance of that happening with these scumbags.

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Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Fat chance of that happening with these scumbags.

They and their apologists on here, tell us there is nothing they can do. There's plenty they can do, but won't. Reinstate the cap from before, stop the NI rise, cut VAT, half the tax on fuel duty and stop demonising public sector workers and get them paid properly, so they can get on with their lives. Work to live, not live to work.

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29 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Fat chance of that happening with these scumbags.

 

Their mates will be on the boards of these companies or have decent shareholdings.  Got to look after your pals, first and foremost.

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The Real Maroonblood
47 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They and their apologists on here, tell us there is nothing they can do. There's plenty they can do, but won't. Reinstate the cap from before, stop the NI rise, cut VAT, half the tax on fuel duty and stop demonising public sector workers and get them paid properly, so they can get on with their lives. Work to live, not live to work.

No excuses. 

Sadly that's their way. 

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1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

No excuses. 

Sadly that's their way. 

They need removed from power, asap. Labour need a new leader, Starmer is fecking hopeless. Get Mick Lynch .

Edited by ri Alban
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hmfc_liam06
9 hours ago, ri Alban said:

They need removed from power, asap. Labour need a new leader, Starmer is fecking hopeless. Get Mick Lynch .

 

Bit off topic but if they had Burnham I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.

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SectionDJambo
12 hours ago, ri Alban said:

They and their apologists on here, tell us there is nothing they can do. There's plenty they can do, but won't. Reinstate the cap from before, stop the NI rise, cut VAT, half the tax on fuel duty and stop demonising public sector workers and get them paid properly, so they can get on with their lives. Work to live, not live to work.

The government won't be too interested in reducing fuel prices for cars. They must be gathering a fortune in increased VAT due to the high prices. 

MPs will get travelling expenses, so they won't suffer too much extra expense. 

All the old expressions and descriptions of any public resistance being led by "militants", "Marxists" or "Union Barons" are being revived by the propaganda machines of the Mail, Express and Telegraph.

They've opened the Pandora's Box of greed and profiteering and getting the lid shut again isn't happening anytime soon, it seems. If there isn't a change of government after the next election, whether by simple majority or coalition, then the UK population will get what it deserves for enabling the continuation of being shafted. 

 

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I saw this last night, thought it might be helpfull for those saying people should not pay their bills, I don't know how accurate it is though!

 

"DO NOT refuse to pay your energy bill in October. Below is how you can make a stand and hurt your energy supplier without getting into debt/damaging your credit rating: 

1. Cancel your DD & pay for what you use each month.

2. You then need to write a letter of complaint to your energy supplier. Once that complaint had been raised, your energy supplier can't take any debt collection work on your account, so they can't pass your details to the credit reference agencies etc. That bill gets put on hold whilst they try to resolve your complaint. 

The energy company might offer you a small reduction - DON'T accept it. Keep the complaint open & hold strong. 

3. Eventually, they will send you a letter of 'Deadlock'. A letter of Deadlock is a letter that is sent to you from your energy company saying they gone as far as they can with your complaint & can't go any further, so your only option now is to take it up with the energy Ombudsman. 

For every complaint the Ombudsman receives, they charge your energy supplier £500 for every claim they have to investigate.

4. The energy companies also have limitations on how many complaints they're allowed open as well as a turnaround time of how fast they have to respond to a complaint & get a complaint closed. If they don't respond to them fast enough & don't resolve the complaints or they have too many complaints open, the energy firm will also get hit with a fine from the Ombudsman.

This is how your hurt an energy company. This will also put them in breach of their licensing conditions 
 & put their ability to trade at risk.

So if you want to fight these extortionate price hikes
1. Raise complaints
2. Do NOT close them
3. Take them to the Ombudsman

You can also submit a “subject access request” at the same time as the above. This means the energy company has a legal obligation to provide you with every piece of information they have on you; including telephone conversation transcripts, past bills, everything! This is time consuming for them to collect and is a huge hassle for them however they legally have only one month to comply."

 

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13 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I saw this last night, thought it might be helpfull for those saying people should not pay their bills, I don't know how accurate it is though!

 

"DO NOT refuse to pay your energy bill in October. Below is how you can make a stand and hurt your energy supplier without getting into debt/damaging your credit rating: 

1. Cancel your DD & pay for what you use each month.

2. You then need to write a letter of complaint to your energy supplier. Once that complaint had been raised, your energy supplier can't take any debt collection work on your account, so they can't pass your details to the credit reference agencies etc. That bill gets put on hold whilst they try to resolve your complaint. 

The energy company might offer you a small reduction - DON'T accept it. Keep the complaint open & hold strong. 

3. Eventually, they will send you a letter of 'Deadlock'. A letter of Deadlock is a letter that is sent to you from your energy company saying they gone as far as they can with your complaint & can't go any further, so your only option now is to take it up with the energy Ombudsman. 

For every complaint the Ombudsman receives, they charge your energy supplier £500 for every claim they have to investigate.

4. The energy companies also have limitations on how many complaints they're allowed open as well as a turnaround time of how fast they have to respond to a complaint & get a complaint closed. If they don't respond to them fast enough & don't resolve the complaints or they have too many complaints open, the energy firm will also get hit with a fine from the Ombudsman.

This is how your hurt an energy company. This will also put them in breach of their licensing conditions 
 & put their ability to trade at risk.

So if you want to fight these extortionate price hikes
1. Raise complaints
2. Do NOT close them
3. Take them to the Ombudsman

You can also submit a “subject access request” at the same time as the above. This means the energy company has a legal obligation to provide you with every piece of information they have on you; including telephone conversation transcripts, past bills, everything! This is time consuming for them to collect and is a huge hassle for them however they legally have only one month to comply."

 


Not sure if that makes sense, unless of course I’ve not understood it correctly. If you are paying your bill why would there be any debt collections involved or reductions ? 
 

What is the basis for the complaint ? Made up complaints will be dismissed very quickly without the ombudsman getting near it.  

Edited by Dazo
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1 minute ago, Dazo said:


Not sure much of that makes sense, unless of course I’ve not understood it correctly. If you are paying your bill why would tgere be any debt collections involved or reductions ? 
 

What is the basis for the complaint ? Made up complaints will be dismissed very quickly without the ombudsman getting near it.  

I've no idea, I thought if someone wanted to look into it that would be a starting point?

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5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I've no idea, I thought if someone wanted to look into it that would be a starting point?


I get the sentiment but I doubt it from what that says to be honest. 
 

Also isn’t there a discount if paying by DD ? I don’t know if it’s enough to make a difference but if you are already struggling not sure adding cost to your bill is the way to go. 

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9 minutes ago, Dazo said:


I get the sentiment but I doubt it from what that says to be honest. 
 

Also isn’t there a discount if paying by DD ? I don’t know if it’s enough to make a difference but if you are already struggling not sure adding cost to your bill is the way to go. 

 

It all seems a bit counter-intuitive to me.

 

Fight high bills by making your bills higher and start playing silly beggars with the energy providers 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Spend your time making your home as energy efficient as can be and how you can reduce energy consumption would be my suggestion. Yes it sucks and it would be nice to "stick it to the man" but it's pragmatic and you get more benefit from it.

 

The not paying thing is also ridiculous as well. If you don't want to pay, go off grid. You don't just start stealing. There's lots of things I can't afford, that are priced outrageously high due to sheer greed and capitalism, it doesn't make it okay for me to just start taking them though.

 

 

None of the above makes the prices okay by the way...but it's the route this country has chosen to go down sadly.

Edited by Taffin
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1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

It all seems a bit counter-intuitive to me.

 

Fight high bills by making your bills higher and start playing silly beggars with the energy providers 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Spend your time making your home as energy efficient as can be and how you can reduce energy consumption would be my suggestion. Yes it sucks and it would be nice to "stick it to the man" but it's pragmatic and you get more benefit from it.

 

The not paying thing is also ridiculous as well. If you don't want to pay, go off grid. You don't just start stealing. There's lots of things I can't afford, that are priced outrageously high due to sheer greed and capitalism, it doesn't make it okay for me to just start taking them though.


Completely agree. As I said I get the sentiment but what was suggest seemed to make no sense. 
 

Being too expensive I doubt is a legitimate basis for any complaint. 

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Just now, Dazo said:


Completely agree. As I said I get the sentiment but what was suggest seemed to make no sense. 
 

Being too expensive I doubt is a legitimate basis for any complaint. 

I think it was from Martin Lewis.

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Just now, Dazo said:


Cant stand that prick but I’d expect him to know his stuff. 

I thought the same, it may just cause a  buggeration factor to the energy companies which is fair enough. 

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1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I thought the same, it may just cause a  buggeration factor to the energy companies which is fair enough. 


Yeah maybe but as I said illegitimate complaints won’t reach any sort of annoyance levels to hurt I’d have thought. 

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9 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Yeah maybe but as I said illegitimate complaints won’t reach any sort of annoyance levels to hurt I’d have thought. 

 

They'll also just lobby the government to change the rules, which they'll do and we'll end up with less options and rights for raising genuine complaints.

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Nookie Bear
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

It all seems a bit counter-intuitive to me.

 

Fight high bills by making your bills higher and start playing silly beggars with the energy providers 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Spend your time making your home as energy efficient as can be and how you can reduce energy consumption would be my suggestion. Yes it sucks and it would be nice to "stick it to the man" but it's pragmatic and you get more benefit from it.

 

The not paying thing is also ridiculous as well. If you don't want to pay, go off grid. You don't just start stealing. There's lots of things I can't afford, that are priced outrageously high due to sheer greed and capitalism, it doesn't make it okay for me to just start taking them though.

 

 

None of the above makes the prices okay by the way...but it's the route this country has chosen to go down sadly.

 

i think for many people this goes way beyond trying to fix by being more efficient and pragmatic.

 

And i am not even sure it's stealing anymore. The nation has complied with rules that confined us to our homes for two years for the good of our health and now we will see the health of many people suffer throughout the long winter months. It is, quite simply, not acceptable.

 

I wouldn;t blame anyone for making things as difficult as possible for the enrgy companies and nor would i blame anyone for hitting the streets and being physically active about it.

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JudyJudyJudy
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

It all seems a bit counter-intuitive to me.

 

Fight high bills by making your bills higher and start playing silly beggars with the energy providers 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Spend your time making your home as energy efficient as can be and how you can reduce energy consumption would be my suggestion. Yes it sucks and it would be nice to "stick it to the man" but it's pragmatic and you get more benefit from it.

 

The not paying thing is also ridiculous as well. If you don't want to pay, go off grid. You don't just start stealing. There's lots of things I can't afford, that are priced outrageously high due to sheer greed and capitalism, it doesn't make it okay for me to just start taking them though.

 

 

None of the above makes the prices okay by the way...but it's the route this country has chosen to go down sadly.

I was one of those who refused to pay my poll tax years ago but they finally caught up with me but i agreed to pay the minimum i could give each month for a few years. Point being they always catch up with you if you literally owe monies so its something to think about. 

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15 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

i think for many people this goes way beyond trying to fix by being more efficient and pragmatic.

 

If it works for them, more power to their elbow. I'll be amazed if it does anything beneficial for their situation though.

 

15 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

And i am not even sure it's stealing anymore. The nation has complied with rules that confined us to our homes for two years for the good of our health and now we will see the health of many people suffer throughout the long winter months. It is, quite simply, not acceptable.

 

The time to kick back on that has been and gone imo, the damage is done and as a whole we lapped it up. 

 

The people of the UK vote for the UK to be like this. Rather than rob energy when it doesn't suit how about we stop voting like cretins?!?

 

Ironically yet again, the demographic most at risk from health issues over winter are those who make up the majority of the Tory voters. I'm sick to the back teeth of folk voting to screw other people over then crying about it when they end up being the ones at risk.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I wouldn;t blame anyone for making things as difficult as possible for the enrgy companies and nor would i blame anyone for hitting the streets and being physically active about it.

 

I don't blame them, I just don't see it remotely helping their situation. They'll just end up making it worse imo.

 

 

11 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I was one of those who refused to pay my poll tax years ago but they finally caught up with me but i agreed to pay the minimum i could give each month for a few years. Point being they always catch up with you if you literally owe monies so its something to think about. 

 

Indeed. 

Edited by Taffin
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Jambo-Jimbo
13 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I was one of those who refused to pay my poll tax years ago but they finally caught up with me but i agreed to pay the minimum i could give each month for a few years. Point being they always catch up with you if you literally owe monies so its something to think about. 

 

I was the same, made a stand and didn't pay the poll tax, but they eventually caught up with me and arrested my wages and got their money that way, and it cost me a lot more as they added all the court fees etc, so I ended up paying more. 

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